Deaf Surgeon?

[BlondeDocteur]

I agree with Socialist. DEAF, in the operating room people commonly direct trainees by speaking to them continuously. "Cut here, a little more gently, a little more deep, watch that tissue plane, drop in a few stiches there..." you have to be looking at the surgical field the entire time while performing the actions you're being directed to do. Likewise, your inability to ask questions (which you'd have to do-- we all do!) would most likely be insurmountable.

However, you needn't necessarily restrict yourself to a non-clinical specialty like pathology. Why not write to the organization mentioned in SocialistMD's article about his former classmate? I'm sure the Association of Medical Professionals with Hearing Loss — www.amphl.org -- would have more useful information than residents and medical students who are really just speculating.

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[howelljolly]

OP ...You're kinda young to decide what specialty you want to go into... point being, dont worry of surgery doesnt work out for you. You might find out that you really dont like doing it.

You are absolutely NOT restricted to pathology and radiology. In fact I think that those who suggest this don't have their heads on straight. (I dont know if your speech is also and issue) Sure you don't have to communicate with patients. But you'll have to communicate with other physicians every single day. You'll be talking to surgeons in the OR via speakerphone, telling them what theyve got on the table. Same holds if you are a radiologist discussing a wire guided biopsy with the surgeon in the OR. In both cases you'll have to do dictations (though Id think you can just type your reports). In both cases, if you are in a bigger hospital, you'll have other doctors coming to talk to you directly, before your official report is submitted.... so anyway....

If ultimately you do decide to go to med school... do what most people should do, and see what rotation you like the best. The one you like the best just might be one that requires the least accomodations and headaches.

 

[yaah]

I have never encountered a deaf pathologist. For most of the job, it would not be a problem. However, it would be difficult to get through training because you have to take a lot of call, most of which involves telephone consultations. For most of surgical pathology (reading out biopsies) while communication is essential you are usually with other people so others can be the one that actually relays the message. But there are also numerous instances where it would become an issue. A lot of clinical pathology is done over the phone.

But I agree with contacting national organizations or people with personal experience with the issue - as well as program directors who would have a better idea of what accomodations are possible.

 

[DEAF]

I agree with Socialist. DEAF, in the operating room people commonly direct trainees by speaking to them continuously. "Cut here, a little more gently, a little more deep, watch that tissue plane, drop in a few stiches there..." you have to be looking at the surgical field the entire time while performing the actions you're being directed to do. Likewise, your inability to ask questions (which you'd have to do-- we all do!) would most likely be insurmountable.

Socialist got pretty good points, but I know the fact that I probably do not have the ability to ask questions while my hands are filled with surgical tools, not being able to read lips, and communicate with other doctors who try to warn me before I do something.
As I said, I am completely deaf, I sometimes use hearing aids due to extremely loud that can cause a big headache in my head -- my insurance does not cover it. If I use hearing aids, it would help me a little to hear, but my brain still does not understand some sounds.
I am interested in surgery for a reason; I also love to help people for a reason. Under AMPHL, they are very helpful, but I do not know if they would help a deaf person who wants to be a surgeon that requires communication and listen. I will contact them, but I am still in high school, though.

If ultimately you do decide to go to med school... do what most people should do, and see what rotation you like the best. The one you like the best just might be one that requires the least accomodations and headaches.

To be honestly, you're right. I better check other fields out that my future medical school suggests.

I have never encountered a deaf pathologist. For most of the job, it would not be a problem. However, it would be difficult to get through training because you have to take a lot of call, most of which involves telephone consultations. For most of surgical pathology (reading out biopsies) while communication is essential you are usually with other people so others can be the one that actually relays the message. But there are also numerous instances where it would become an issue. A lot of clinical pathology is done over the phone.

Thank you so much for coming here. I needed your opinion.
Anyway, I know there are no deaf pathologists, but there are small accommodations for a deaf person who is on the call such as videophone called "VP 200" which is probably helpful for doctors to call quickly. I am sure the training years would be a big headache for attendings/residents when they work with a deaf person, but is it worth to teach a deaf person?

Medical students, residents, and attendings, thank you so much for your opinions. I really appreciate it! I might need more opinions/advices/suggestions if I go to a college. If you have questions for me, feel free to ask here.

 

[Habeed]

As I said, I am completely deaf, I sometimes use hearing aids due to extremely loud that can cause a big headache in my head -- my insurance does not cover it. If I use hearing aids, it would help me a little to hear, but my brain still does not understand some sounds.

You are not completely deaf, or a hearing aid would not do anything. Further, if you can hear anything at all, your brain is able to process sounds. This is not medical advice, but it sounds like you could benefit greatly from a cochlear implant. And of course if you were no longer deaf due to using an implant, and could communicate by speaking with people, then you would have many more options available to you.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

OMG are you seriously trying to tell this kid you know his level of hearing function better than he?! YOU are offering him therapy? YOU, who have not had a single DAY of medical school yet? All to avoid admitting you're wrong on an internet forum? You are seriously deranged.

DEAF *please* shrug him off. He's nuts.

 

[Habeed]

So I guess that if this kid can use a hearing aid, it is still possible for him to have NO HEARING FUNCTION. Yeah, that requires 4 years of medical school and a 5 year ENT residency to know...

No matter what is broken, a cochlear implant would probably help since the implant bypasses nearly everything in the ear but the nerves...

Yep, need 9 more years of education to be able to figure that out. Sorry about that, will get back to you in another decade...

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

So I guess that if this kid can use a hearing aid, it is still possible for him to have NO HEARING FUNCTION. Yeah, that requires 4 years of medical school and a 5 year ENT residency to know...

No matter what is broken, a cochlear implant would probably help since the implant bypasses nearly everything in the ear but the nerves...

Yep, need 9 more years of education to be able to figure that out. Sorry about that...

Seriously, what is wrong with you? Do you have some pathologic need to pretend to know everything about anything?

Do you actually know anything about cochlear implants or deafness (short of what you will undoubtedly google in the next 5 minutes to try and post an angry rebuttal)?

It's really not as simple as "can't hear good? Implant make it all ok!!"

I know just enough after taking a neuro course and hearing a couple of lectures from an audiologist on implants to realize that the issue is incredibly complex. The whole concept behind cochlear implants relies on the plasticity of the brain to be able to develop fully functional auditory pathways - a person who has been profoundly deaf for a long period of time may not still have that plasticity. There are also a host of psychosocial factors that play into the decision.

Additionally, given DEAF's high level of awareness about deafness-related issues and advocacy groups, he/she seems well informed - I'm pretty sure you have nothing new to say to him/her on the possible options out there.

 

[Habeed]

Didn't say it would make it all ok, but it's a "no **** Sherlock" assessment that being able to hear is a pretty useful sense...

In addition, he SAYS that he needs a hearing aid at maximum amplification, and yet it doesn't work very well. That strongly implies a bottleneck somewhere in the ear, since the auditory nerve is histologically similar to a bunch of other brain structures. (and so if his auditory nerves were bilaterally malformed somehow, then odds are he'd have neurological problems)

Thus, it's not much of a leap to guess that bypassing his ear would provide a large improvement. Further, the fact that he has "heard" things, even with a cruddy, noisy set of ears means that his brain probably does have some auditory pathways. Does he have enough plasticity as an adult to develop full hearing? Maybe not, but the sooner he gets an implant, the better.

Just because I don't have the 9 years of education needed to do this on a professional basis doesn't mean I'm wrong.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

but it's a "no **** Sherlock" assessment that being able to hear is a pretty useful sense...

Except you are in no position to properly judge whether that would even be possible for DEAF.

You don't know the specific type of hearing impairment he/she has. You don't know how long he/she has had it. You don't know what evaluation and treatment he/she has already tried. Oh, yeah, you're also not an audiologist.

Quit trying to be an arm-chair doctor (and a pretend med student for that matter) - all it does is consistently make you look like an ass.

 

[RoadRunner17]

Wow, just wow. There is so much misinformation and ignorance in this thread, it is astounding. We have someone in this thread who doesn't appear to have any clue what it's like to be deaf (at all) telling a deaf person what he can or can't hear, and whether he's deaf or not. On top of that, this guy isn't even a medical student yet. Please, just stop posting. You're digging yourself a deeper hole as you go along.

 

[Habeed]

Quit trying to be an arm-chair SDN poster. I have 5 years of experience posting here, and have read more threads than you can count. Therefore, my opinion is automatically more qualified.

 

[RoadRunner17]

To DEAF: you're still a sophomore in high school. Technology is always moving forth, and there will be new, novel ways to approach the different, difficult questions that have been asked of aspiring deaf physicians and surgeons regarding accommodations. If you find yourself still taking this path to medicine in five years, just know that you are not the first, nor will you be the last to do so. Things change. In the same way, you may find that surgery isn't what you want to do - these things can change as well.

AMPHL is a great, albeit somewhat out-of-date resource. I think the board is planning on making some changes and updating the website with more current information. It's also very important to find a mentor that knows about these issues- the doctor in that UCDMC article, I think, is the person who originally wrote the Physicians section of the AMPHL website, too. So check out their forums and see if you can't get in touch with someone who can give their perspective on practicing medicine as a deaf physician.

 

[J-Rad]

Also, it would be almost impossible to get stethoscopic impressions; you'd essentially need other people to listen for you (instead of just borrowing other people's stethoscopes ).

What do surgeons use those thingamabobbers for? Can't you just ask them if they've farted?

Not any definitive argument here, but for the OP, look up Helen Taussig (Mother of pediatric cardiology)

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Just because I don't have the 9 years of education needed to do this on a professional basis doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Last attempt at seriously replying to your comments:

No, it doesn't mean you are wrong. It means that you don't know. Even if you had proper training as an audiologist, you still wouldn't know. Why? Because you're attempting to diagnose and prescribe treatment to a total stranger over the internet based on your extrapolated understanding of their medical condition. (and an incomplete understanding of the disease pathology and treatment mechanism/indications/efficacy, but that is a separate issue)

Notice that no one else in response to you has said anything about what DEAF should or shouldn't do as a treatment option. We all have enough common sense (and humility, which you clearly lack) that the only advice we would ever give in a situation like this is to talk to a qualified professional (which none of us are).

 

[howelljolly]

What do surgeons use those thingamabobbers for? Can't you just ask them if they've farted?

Not any definitive argument here, but for the OP, look up Helen Taussig (Mother of pediatric cardiology)

just... wow...

"...she became expert at diagnosis through physical examination—made more complex in her case due to the fact that Taussig was somewhat deaf as a result of childhood whooping cough and unable to use a stethoscope, thereby necessitating her reliance on visual examination..."

So she never heard what a Blalock-Taussig shunt sounds like...

 

[Leforte]

When I was a medical student, one of my OB/GYN residents was deaf. She did not have a cochelar implant, either. She had 3 interpreters assigned to her. She could lip read, but they were available for the OR and when she was dealing with pt who spoke a different language. If a hispanic patient came in, it would go patient-spanish interpreter-sign language-resident. Pretty interesting.

She did fine in the OR. She operated well and there was never an issue while I was on rotation. All the other residents/faculty supported her, too. I am not sure who paid for the interpreters (if it was the hospital, some advocacy group, or if she was independently weathly) but they were there 24/7 with her.

So I am not sure what experience my colleagues here who are nay-sayers have with surgeons with a hearing impairment, but it can be done. I have seen it. The logistics are another matter.

To the OP. If you want, you can PM me, and I'll tell you where I went to medical school, and you can contact the residency director of the OB/GYN department, explain your situation, and ask for advice on how they made it happen for that deaf OB/GYN surgeon.

They may even give you her name and contact details so you can discuss how her practice is going (it was 7 years ago that we worked together).

 

[DEAF]

I am thankful that this thread is not closed since it is getting uglier and uglier.

I've been using my hearing aids that is using the old technology which causes a big headache in my head, it's like I can hear you're talking in the other room. It is not very helpful for me. I would get new hearing aids with a new digit technology, but my insurance does not cover it since I am over 15 years old. It costs like over 6,000$ each hearing aid. I know I said I am completely deaf, but to be honestly, I can hear very strong sounds without hearing aids such as a car starts its engine, music with extremely loud sounds, screaming, yelling, and something like that.

for the OP, look up Helen Taussig (Mother of pediatric cardiology)

It's very interesting -- the deaf pediatric cardiologist! I wish she is still alive.

To DEAF: you're still a sophomore in high school. Technology is always moving forth, and there will be new, novel ways to approach the different, difficult questions that have been asked of aspiring deaf physicians and surgeons regarding accommodations. If you find yourself still taking this path to medicine in five years, just know that you are not the first, nor will you be the last to do so. Things change. In the same way, you may find that surgery isn't what you want to do - these things can change as well.

I fairly agreed with you. I mean, I know it's pretty early for me, but surgery interests me for a reason; I love to help people for a reason. I also love laws, but I don't think it would fit my lifestyle. Let's see what happen when I go to college (hopefully I'll get accepted into New York University, or University of Rochester)
I am sure AMPHL helps a lot, but the forums are like dead now. I will contact the administration when I go to college.

southernIM - Thank you for supporting. I am very thankful that I have you in this thread. I am amusing you're a medical student? I would like to hear your opinion as well.

Blonde - I am now ignoring Habeed's opinions. I know his opinions pretty much nearly crushed my "becoming a doctor" dream.

 

[DEAF]

When I was a medical student, one of my OB/GYN residents was deaf. She did not have a cochelar implant, either. She had 3 interpreters assigned to her. She could lip read, but they were available for the OR and when she was dealing with pt who spoke a different language. If a hispanic patient came in, it would go patient-spanish interpreter-sign language-resident. Pretty interesting.

She did fine in the OR. She operated well and there was never an issue while I was on rotation. All the other residents/faculty supported her, too. I am not sure who paid for the interpreters (if it was the hospital, some advocacy group, or if she was independently weathly) but they were there 24/7 with her.

So I am not sure what experience my colleagues here who are nay-sayers have with surgeons with a hearing impairment, but it can be done. I have seen it. The logistics are another matter.

To the OP. If you want, you can PM me, and I'll tell you where I went to medical school, and you can contact the residency director of the OB/GYN department, explain your situation, and ask for advice on how they made it happen for that deaf OB/GYN surgeon.

They may even give you her name and contact details so you can discuss how her practice is going (it was 7 years ago that we worked together).

Wow. I would be more than happy to get more information from you, please PM me!
If your program did not pay for the interpreters, it was definitely governments, deafness related programs, or her parents are very rich. I am totally dumbfounded. I cannot wait to hear more from her directly if I am allowed to contact her.

 

[Leforte]

I sent you a PM with the details.

Contact the residency director. The resident should have graduated in 2006, so they'll all know her still. She was a great person, down to earth, and should be able to help mentor you through the whole process.

Good luck.

 

[beaverfetus]

I sent you a PM with the details.

Contact the residency director. The resident should have graduated in 2006, so they'll all know her still. She was a great person, down to earth, and should be able to help mentor you through the whole process.

Good luck.

that's freaking great! glad something constructive actually came out of this swamp of a thread.

Of course OP being a sophmore in college will probably change his mind seven million times before actually matching, but still I'll bet it will be comforting to know whats possible with the right support.


edit: sophmore in HIGHSCHOOL. man, I'm pretty sure I still wanted to be senator when I was his age

 

[Winged Scapula]

I am thankful that this thread is not closed since it is getting uglier and uglier.

Despite its ugliness, there is much useful information and opinion to be had here. I know I've learned a lot since its inception.

I sent you a PM with the details.

Contact the residency director. The resident should have graduated in 2006, so they'll all know her still. She was a great person, down to earth, and should be able to help mentor you through the whole process.

Good luck.

Thanks LeForte for being so generous. It sounds as if there may be ways to make it work at least in Ob-Gyn (which is not Gen Surg), IF you can find a residency program willing to do so.

 

[Pilot Doc]

Late to the party - skimmed this contentious thread.

Agree with tussy that even if a deaf person could be trained as a surgeon (which I doubt) that they should not. Despite the purposefully spiteful post about a blind surgeon, the comparison is apt. A total lack of hearing (and lip reading and speech) presents too many barriers to timely information gathering and dissemination.

And to open another big can or worms ... training an obstetrician is not the same as training a surgeon. The amount of technical skill transferred behind masks is much greater for GS than OB - with a lot more delicate situations. I don't think the example of that having happened

 

[hef]

And to open another big can or worms ... training an obstetrician is not the same as training a surgeon.

Was waiting for it.

 

[DEAF]

Doc - I know there is probably no possibilities for a deaf person being a surgeon if does not have the ability to read lips, or communicate. But what specialty would you suggest for a deaf person with/out least accommodations?

 

[howelljolly]

Late to the party - skimmed this contentious thread.

Agree with tussy that even if a deaf person could be trained as a surgeon (which I doubt) that they should not. Despite the purposefully spiteful post about a blind surgeon, the comparison is apt. A total lack of hearing (and lip reading and speech) presents too many barriers to timely information gathering and dissemination.

And to open another big can or worms ... training an obstetrician is not the same as training a surgeon. The amount of technical skill transferred behind masks is much greater for GS than OB - with a lot more delicate situations. I don't think the example of that having happened

oooo worms! What about when the OB resident is doing a pelvic reconstruction, or an ex-lap at 2am for ruptured ectopic with 2000ml of blood in the pelvis?

 

[hef]

oooo worms! What about when the OB resident is doing a pelvic reconstruction, or an ex-lap at 2am for ruptured ectopic with 2000ml of blood in the pelvis?

Please, don't start this. Not here. There's a thread floating around here somewhere (page 1 or 2) if you must discuss it. What's a surgeon?

 

[howelljolly]

Please, don't start this. Not here. There's a thread floating around here somewhere (page 1 or 2) if you must discuss it. What's a surgeon?

Yeah I know... I generated brawls on that thread too.

fine, I'll stop. just because you asked nicely...

and because DEAF has maintained such a positive attitude on this mess of a thread, Im not going to ruin it.

DEAF... noone is going to be able to give you a definitive answer. First of all, noone knows to what level your hearing and/or speech is impaired, or how well you can read lips. Also, noone here, knows enough about audiology or ENT to tell you what will happen in ten years. Notice, the one resident who knows more about ears than any of us didnt even venure to comment. Also, noone here really knows what reasonable, or un-reasonable accomodations there are to be made.... all aside from their own personal experiences with deaf friends or classmates.

So, try not to worry about what field of medicine you are going to go into. Gosh... Im going bats--t about that right about now... but I think I should be. At this point, decide where you want to go to college, and what you want to major in. Eventually you might discover that theres something out there that youve never heard of that interests you. Keep your options open. Medicine isnt the only thing out there, and it will still be there should you decide in 10 years to go for it.

The field with the least required accomodations might be the one you cant stand. You wont know till you get there.

 

[DEAF]

I do not think I said I made a decision about what I want to become in the future, but I just said surgery interests me for a reason, that does not mean I am definitely going to be a doctor to achieve my "goal". I am so sorry for asking tough questions, but I am a curious guy.
I bumped this thread because I wanted to know if it is possible for a deaf person to be a surgeon, and some of posters posted their opinions, and suggestions which are matter to me. So, it'll be more easy for me to make a decision when I go to college -- I've been working hard in school to get good grades. Like I said, I might need more suggestions and opinions by the time I go to college, and some of you are going to be residents and attendings
Again, thank you all for coming here and discussing.

 

[Anka]

Deaf, what does the sign in your avatar mean? And, out of curiosity, do you consider English to be your first language, or sign language?

 

[DEAF]

Deaf, what does the sign in your avatar mean? And, out of curiosity, do you consider English to be your first language, or sign language?

My avatar means the sign of "doctor" -- all the deaf people use that sign to call their doctors.
English is not my first language, and sign language. Spanish is my first language, of course, I came to United States for better opportunities.

 

[Anka]

My avatar means the sign of "doctor" -- all the deaf people use that sign to call their doctors.
English is not my first language, and sign language. Spanish is my first language, of course, I came to United States for better opportunities.

Neat. It sounds like you've got a unique background. If you still want to be a doctor when you get to that point, my guess is you'll figure out what will and will not work during your clinical rotations. If I were you, I'd focus less on finding a field where you need the fewest accommodations, and more on finding a field where when you graduate you will fill a special place, so that the accommodations will be outweighed by the value you provide. Of course, some things will be impossible and/or dangerous.

I would imagine you would want to be in a direct patient care specialty, where you would be able to interact with patients and provide a very special service to your deaf patients. Heck, if I were deaf I'd go two hundred miles to have a deaf physician to talk to me in my own language!

Best of luck. You have an amazingly positive attitude that will serve you well regardless of what you go into.

Anka

 

[scube]

maybe i missed it but DEAF has nearly a decade before picking a specialty, who knows what medicine will be like then. It is possible that s/he will be doing surgery robotically where remaining sterile by wearing a mask is not needed. or (enter the other endless possibilities). DEAF my advice is work hard, keep you eyes on what you want and make what you want happen. this is still America, right?

 

[Pilot Doc]

Doc - I know there is probably no possibilities for a deaf person being a surgeon if does not have the ability to read lips, or communicate. But what specialty would you suggest for a deaf person with/out least accommodations?

Something that is more intellectual than technical - or at least where the technical items are not life and death. I'm sure you could learn to do colonoscopies. Something that does not require time-pressured, highly technical communication. Something where hearing sounds other than speech is not important.

And my thought is that the biggest reason for society to invest in you as a deaf physician would be for your ability to treat deaf patients. In that regard, some form of primary care would be the best bet. Maybe psych as well.

 

[Pilot Doc]

oooo worms! What about when the OB resident is doing a pelvic reconstruction, or an ex-lap at 2am for ruptured ectopic with 2000ml of blood in the pelvis?

OB's don't do pelvic reconstructions - gyn oncs do.

A ruptured ectopic can be stabilized very quickly with a yankauer and a couple of clamps.

I don't mean this as a slur on OB, or to say that they're not surgeons. But they don't sew on things with the potential to bleed A LOT anywhere near as much as GS guys do.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

OP:

I think the fact that so much in surgery is time-sensitive would mean that it would be quite difficult to get the required information quickly enough.

It sounds like a specialty like medicine or pediatrics might be a better fit. You would have to have an interpreter with you and you'd have to figure out some other way of detecting subtle heart and breath sounds. I don't know what the current state of the technology is, but I'm assuming they may have devices that amplify the sound waves so you could detect them by touch or sight.

As mentioned before pathology, neurology, radiology, radiation oncology, and dermatology are options as well. Unfortunately, excepting pathology and neurology these are all highly competitive residencies at the moment.

None of this is going to be easy. It will be a steep uphill battle. I think surgery and any other field with risky fast-paced procedures is not a good idea, but I think that does leave as an option a good number of other specialties.

 

[howelljolly]

OB's don't do pelvic reconstructions - gyn oncs do.

A ruptured ectopic can be stabilized very quickly with a yankauer and a couple of clamps.

I don't mean this as a slur on OB, or to say that they're not surgeons. But they don't sew on things with the potential to bleed A LOT anywhere near as much as GS guys do.

My point was... given that one of the posters knew a deaf OB/Gyn resident...

In my experience (as a medical student) Ive done much more "time-sensitive" things when I was on OB/Gyn. GenSurg was much more controlled (besides trauma). If the OB/Gyn resident was cutting someone open, 75% of the time, it was a complicated case with a gyn-onc or uro-gyn attending... or it was an emergent ex-lap... or it was a stat c-section with the baby out in less than 60 seconds.

... so if a deaf OB/gyn resident could pull that off, then...

Its not a question of the risk of injuring the patient... its a question of "Can you learn and do the procedure without ever hearing or lip-reading what the attending is teaching you?"

 

[Pilot Doc]

I suspect your experience is not yet broad enough to reasonably judge this.

OB-gyn only operates on delicate structures and/or things capable of significant bleeding by accident. GS does it all the time. Nor do OB's operate with loupes, which I suspect would add another layer of complexity to signing in the OR.

Getting to your specific examples, a deaf resident does not need to learn how to perform complicated gyn onc or uro gyn. They can assist the attending and go on to do bread and butter cases. A GS resident does need to learn how to sew on blood vessels with 5-0 suture and loupes.

I can't speak for your institution, but at my 1000 bed quaternary referal center, emergent OB ex-laps are exceedingly rare. Somewhat more common but still very unsual are subtantial intraop complications. Not so GS.

As for c-sections - those are not technically complicated. They certainly need to be done fast and well, but they are not complicated.

It would be much, much easier to learn the operative skills required of OB than of GS.

 

[Northern Light]

I have to say some of the replies posted on here are just plain unbelievable.

I'm deaf and I want to be a surgeon. I'm doing my general surgery rotation now and I've been told by my attending, that I was the 2nd student ever to do the sutures she taught me right the first time. I was the first medical student she ever let close up an open abdominal incision for exploratory surgery. And she's been practicing for 20 years now and 5 years at this particular hospital. I was complimented on my ability to use a laproscopic camera very efficiently, as if I had experience handling it (which I did not). I was told by a surgical assistant that another surgeon who let me do an above knee amputation usually doesn't let students perform procedures. And I'm deaf, and they let me do things that they wouldn't let the average med student perform.

I am very observant because I don't understand things in the OR. We're using the Stryker masks in the OR and it's the best thing, next to a regular surgical mask. Most surgeries are done in controlled environments, other than the trauma cases. So as long as you know what the procedure is, inside/out, you'll eventually learn what to do in case something goes wrong.

There's always the surgical subspeciality as a family physician where you can end up gearing your practice to a lump and bump type of practice. I've heard of a family doctor who lost his hearing overnight and he simply shifted his practice to a lump n bump clinic where he didn't have to communicate with patients as much. Because of him, the wait time to get a lump removed is next to nothing.


To hear that pathology and radiology is the most ideal speciality is just ridiculous. I would just focus on the now. That is to get into medical school and survive. If you can do that, people will have a lot of respect for what you can do.

 

[DEAF]

Northern Light - I thought I was the only one who is deaf on SDN, I guess not. I am totally shocked, though.
How come I have not heard a word about a deaf medical student who wants to be a surgeon? It is very interesting that you are allowed to do something that average medical students are not allowed to do. Is it because attendings want to teach you earlier so you can easily understand other forms in difficult ways?
What do you mean by you do not know things in the OR?
Do you use sign language? Do you have interpreters? Are you deaf, or Deaf? How do you find it difficult to communicate during operation (you said you are doing general surgery right now so I think it's the right time to ask)
I'd like to ask you a few questions (undergraduate and medical school related questions) through private messages, but first, I am asking you if you would like to answer.
I am so excited to get more information from you. Thank you for coming here!

Anka - Thank you! My personality is one of my best assents. I am proudly deaf and my parents accepted the fact that I am deaf and who I am. They do not mind if I want to be a doctor, but they would like to see me working at a hospital where a lot of deaf people usually go to.

 

[Northern Light]

Here's a quote for those of you who might want to think twice before coming to your own conclusions about others.


"There always will be Central Africans who want to instruct Inuits in the finer points of igloo building" (Anon.)

 

[howelljolly]

Here's a quote for those of you who might want to think twice before coming to your own conclusions about others.


"There always will be Central Africans who want to instruct Inuits in the finer points of igloo building" (Anon.)

Yeah, we were trying to be helpful. But thanks for the clever quote.

 

[funshi baba]

Here's a quote for those of you who might want to think twice before coming to your own conclusions about others.


"There always will be Central Africans who want to instruct Inuits in the finer points of igloo building" (Anon.)

first off, why does it have to be africans?

good night

 

[DHT]

I have to say some of the replies posted on here are just plain unbelievable.

I'm deaf and I want to be a surgeon. I'm doing my general surgery rotation now and I've been told by my attending, that I was the 2nd student ever to do the sutures she taught me right the first time. I was the first medical student she ever let close up an open abdominal incision for exploratory surgery. And she's been practicing for 20 years now and 5 years at this particular hospital. I was complimented on my ability to use a laproscopic camera very efficiently, as if I had experience handling it (which I did not). I was told by a surgical assistant that another surgeon who let me do an above knee amputation usually doesn't let students perform procedures. And I'm deaf, and they let me do things that they wouldn't let the average med student perform.

I am very observant because I don't understand things in the OR. We're using the Stryker masks in the OR and it's the best thing, next to a regular surgical mask. Most surgeries are done in controlled environments, other than the trauma cases. So as long as you know what the procedure is, inside/out, you'll eventually learn what to do in case something goes wrong.

There's always the surgical subspeciality as a family physician where you can end up gearing your practice to a lump and bump type of practice. I've heard of a family doctor who lost his hearing overnight and he simply shifted his practice to a lump n bump clinic where he didn't have to communicate with patients as much. Because of him, the wait time to get a lump removed is next to nothing.


To hear that pathology and radiology is the most ideal speciality is just ridiculous. I would just focus on the now. That is to get into medical school and survive. If you can do that, people will have a lot of respect for what you can do.

Well maybe you could help the OP out with some of the issues brought up in this thread.

How do you take a history or communicate with patients?
How do you communicate in the OR when your eyes are focused on the field?
Are you able to present on rounds? (How good is your speech)
Do you have a 24/7 interpreter? If so, who should he look for to pay for it?
How do you auscultate lungs/heart/abd?
How are you capable of running or participating in trauma assessments when everything is just shouted out?
Can you hear at all or are you completely deaf?

Sharing your experiences on overcoming some of these obstacles would be very helpful and motivating for the OP, instead of telling us all how great you are.

 

[bullpup777]

Hi DEAF. I have a deaf daughter who has complex medical issues. In addition, the time I have spent as a resident has shown me that, on the whole, the Deaf community in the US gets awful medical care. I believe that deaf patients have worse outcomes, and miserable sequelae for easily treatable conditions because of communications issues.

Did you know that there is only one pediatric and adolescent psychiatrist on the eastern seaboard who signs....and she is not deaf. That is just one example. There is a real need for deaf doctors out there. Don't let anyone convince you that you can't do this. You sound like a bright guy, and extra funds that might be expended in training you will be more than recaptured because of the unique communication abilities and experience you bring to the table

 

[howelljolly]

And, you won't be held personally (read - not professionally) liable for not providing a sign language interpreter... when your patient decides to sue you for $400,000 after returning to you again and again, for 20 visits.

This is all well and good, and extremely irritating.

How about one of you explain to all of us how someone who can't hear, can communicate with the other surgeons, the scrub nurse, and the anesthesiologist, while keeping their eyes in the field?

And while Im at it... Northern Light... why would surgeons who never let students operate to the capacity that you have, allow you to do so? To me, and perhaps others, theres one obvious possibility.

 

[Pilot Doc]

Northern Light
How come I have not heard a word about a deaf medical student who wants to be a surgeon?.

Because that was his first post ever and he just joined.

For your sake I hope he's real. He might not be. We get a lot of people who like to stir up trouble.

Despite my experiences, I stand by my comments. Showing promise as a medical student does not predict the ability to function independently as a senior resident or surgeon. To start "except trauma" is not a trivial exclusion. But even putting that aside though most cases are controlled, the point of a 5 year training program is not to master most situations.

 

[Pilot Doc]

There is a real need for deaf doctors out there. Don't let anyone convince you that you can't do this.

True - True unrelated. The need for doctors doesn't mean a deaf surgeon can function effectively.

And if anything it points out the crying need for him to go into a field where he could conceivably have a mostly deaf patient population. Medicine, Pediatrics, Psychiatry, etc.

 

[howelljolly]

Because that was his first post ever and he just joined.

For your sake I hope he's real. He might not be. We get a lot of people who like to stir up trouble.

Despite my experiences, I stand by my comments. Showing promise as a medical student does not predict the ability to function independently as a senior resident or surgeon. To start "except trauma" is not a trivial exclusion. But even putting that aside though most cases are controlled, the point of a 5 year training program is not to master most situations.

It is to master all of them.

I did my general surgery rotation in a hospital that does not officially recieve trauma. So, when a ruptured spleen does come into the ER, its the general surgery team on-call which takes them to the OR. How do you follow orders that are barked at you when you can not hear them, or see where they are coming from?

 

[Northern Light]

Well maybe you could help the OP out with some of the issues brought up in this thread.

How do you take a history or communicate with patients?
How do you communicate in the OR when your eyes are focused on the field?
Are you able to present on rounds? (How good is your speech)
Do you have a 24/7 interpreter? If so, who should he look for to pay for it?
How do you auscultate lungs/heart/abd?
How are you capable of running or participating in trauma assessments when everything is just shouted out?
Can you hear at all or are you completely deaf?

Sharing your experiences on overcoming some of these obstacles would be very helpful and motivating for the OP, instead of telling us all how great you are.

This is not about 'how great you are'. It's about informing people about misconceptions, it's about educating them about the possiblities. Also to prove the point that I've compensated really well by becoming visually adept. Between the three surgeons I've been working with, I know the way they handle their sutures and clamps. So I showed my classmate how to handle the instruments for suturing with each surgeon and he was baffled at the fact I even noticed those things. Because of that, I've developed a photogenic memory that allows me reproduce whatever happened at the next surgery. Before the surgeon even cuts through the skin, I know which layer he's going in, I know what structures he has to watch out for. Being prepared in that sense allows you to be in better control of the situation.

I have sign language interpreters with me in the OR all the time. The surgeon wears a Stryker mask so I can see his/her entire face which allows for some lipreading. I talk with them ahead of time to use simple phrases, simple commands, simple gestures. My speech is intelligible. I pre-read ahead of time on the type of surgery we're doing. So while surgery is performed, I know what's what. This allows me to be prepared way ahead of time so I have better control of knowing what's happening.

And as med students, you know well that any inexperienced person would not have a clue what's happening in a code. They wouldn't understand a thing anyway. It's only with time and experience that you start to get the hang of things and know exactly what's happening. There's a deaf IM resident and he likes to run Code Blues.

As for lung and heart sounds, there are electronic stethoscopes that hook up to a PDA with a visual software for lung/heart sounds. www.amphl.org has some info on stethoscopes.

They've come out with a portable US, which is great. You can pick up all kinds of things with a portable US for which you do not need a stethoscope.

Even as an attending, they'll just ask the nurse how the patient's doing. They'll say bowel sounds present. The surgeon isn't going to auscultate. They'll just chart the fact the patient has bowel sounds because the nurse told them.

http://www.whonamedit.com/doctor.cfm/2034.html Dr. Taussig was a deaf cardiologist and she was a pioneer. She paplated the heart when there wasn't any technology to help her. And she did well.

And who though a blind anesthesiologist could do it. http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/160/1/160.pdf

It's all about adapting the work environment and having a good team. It just takes an open mind and creativity and you'll be surprised at what comes out of it. Having a negative attitude from the beginning without problem solving is deconstructive.

I've talked to several ENT's because I wanted to know what they thought of me going into surgery. To be honest, they were cool with it. Obviously with some teamwork, etc.