dating in medical school seems hard

[PL198]

You really suck at this.

lol good response. instead of making a rational retort. that's a champion debate strategy.

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[Mad Jack]

lol good response. instead of making a rational retort. that's a champion debate strategy.

That was just my opener, I wanted you to think about it a while while I wrote out everything else.

 

[PL198]

I wasn't talking about people with eating disorders commiting suicide. They don't want to die, they want to be skinny and in order to do that they participate in behaviors that can and do result in their demise. Make sense?

you're literally epitomizing exactly what I'm saying is wrong. you assume they committed suicide as a side-effect of a mental disorder and that by definition, they are irrational. the possibility that they committed suicide through a rational decision to eat in a certain way that leads to their demise doesn't even enter your mind. you're automatically trying to create a diagnosis for the patient killing them-self, when it's quite possible that there is no diagnosis and they just chose to do so in a completely rational and autonomous state.

 

[Mad Jack]

you're literally epitomizing exactly what I'm saying is wrong. you assume they committed suicide as a side-effect of a mental disorder and that by definition, they are irrational. the possibility that they committed suicide through a rational decision to eat in a certain way that leads to their demise doesn't even enter your mind. you're automatically trying to create a diagnosis for the patient killing them-self, when it's quite possible that there is no diagnosis and they just chose to do so in a completely rational and autonomous state.

A process that results in the death of a patient is pretty much by definition pathologic. As physicians, it's sort of our goal to preserve life.

 

[PL198]

^ if this doesn't automatically register as wrong and a failure on your part, then I can't help you. you don't just get to arbitrarily say a patient had an illness because they killed themselves.

 

[touchpause13]

Here's a fun trick you can pull with ED patients. Ask them what the measurement of their waist is. They will tell you a number that is way too high. You measure their waist, and show them the actual measurement. They will tell you that you are lying. Everytime. They are not well. They can never reach their goal because they do not see their body how everyone else does.

There is nothing rational about their thought process.

 

[PL198]

Here's a fun trick you can pull with ED patients. Ask them what the measurement of their waist is. They will tell you a number that is way too high. You measure their waist, and show them the actual measurement. They will tell you that you are lying. Everytime. They are not well. They can never reach their goal because they do not see their body how everyone else does.

There is nothing rational about their thought process.

ok so rational suicide through eating means is clearly impossible, glad we established that. also you just dodged for the 15th time

 

[touchpause13]

ok so rational suicide through eating means is clearly impossible, glad we established that. also you just dodged for the 15th time

I never said it's impossible to rationally kill yourself.

I'm saying that ED patients are not doing that. They are not trying to kill themselves. They are not rational. They are sick, and they need help.

How the F is that a dodge?

 

[Mad Jack]

ok so rational suicide through eating means is clearly impossible, glad we established that. also you just dodged for the 15th time

Suicide is almost never rational, as demonstrated by the fact that the vast majority of people that survive suicide attempts later realize that their suicide attempt was a mistake.

 

[fancymylotus]

Back on topic, there are a couple girls at my med school I'd like to ask out and they live in the same building as me but if they reject me (which is likely), it will be awkward for the next 2 years to see them. How do I go about doing this?

do it at the cluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuub

 

[PL198]

I never said it's impossible to rationally kill yourself.

I'm saying that ED patients are not doing that. They are not trying to kill themselves. They are not rational. They are sick, and they need help.

How the F is that a dodge?

And you'd know that how? You're automatically assuming them to be irrational, so how can you possibly assess if they are rational or not? lol you couldn't play into my discussion any harder. you literally exhibit 100 % of the flaws I'm highlighting.

 

[fancymylotus]

I never said it's impossible to rationally kill yourself.

I'm saying that ED patients are not doing that. They are not trying to kill themselves. They are not rational. They are sick, and they need help.

How the F is that a dodge?

quit being dodgy tp. JEEZ

 

[PL198]

Back on topic, there are a couple girls at my med school I'd like to ask out and they live in the same building as me but if they reject me (which is likely), it will be awkward for the next 2 years to see them. How do I go about doing this?

just do it. who cares if they reject you. unless you're both 12 years old, it's not going to be awkward. if you're asking someone something, it's implied there is both a chance of yes or no as a response, thus it shouldn't be awkward or unusual whatever way they respond. not to mention there are millions more just like them so if they say no, it's not a big loss for you.

 

[touchpause13]

And you'd know that how? You're automatically assuming them to be irrational, so how can you possibly assess if they are rational or not? lol you couldn't play into my discussion any harder. you literally exhibit 100 % of the flaws I'm highlighting.

That's how you diagnose them! I don't have V yet, but this is from DSM IV for ana:
* Refusal to maintain body weight at or above a minimally normal weight for age and
height, for example, weight loss leading to maintenance of body weight less than 85%
of that expected or failure to make expected weight gain during period of growth,
leading to body weight less than 85% of that expected.
* Intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat, even though underweight.
* Disturbance in the way one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence
of body weight or shape on self evaluation, or denial of the seriousness of the current
low body weight.
* In postmenarcheal females, amenorrhea, i.e., the absence of at least 3 consecutive
menstrual cycles. A woman having periods only while on hormone medication (e.g.
estrogen) still qualifies as having amenorrhea.

It's an irrational fear of being fat, and pt's exhibit behaviors that make them wayyy thinner than they should be.

 

[PL198]

If I straight up ask them on a date then get rejected, they will never want to talk to me again since they know they rejected me and they will think I secretly hate them for it.

that's the immaturity I referenced.

 

[fancymylotus]

If I straight up ask them on a date then get rejected, they will never want to talk to me again since they know they rejected me and they will think I secretly hate them for it.

erm..this is a lot of omg what will they think and what am I gonna do about it and maybe I should but maybe I shouldn't??!?!?!?!
just do it.

 

[redpanda]

No for real, how does one go about asking out a classmate?

Uh, you make a proposal for something to do? e.g. "Hey, want to come hiking with me on XXday?

Women aren't that complex. For some, it helps if you offer a beer at the end of the hike too!

 

[PL198]

That's how you diagnose them! I don't have V yet, but this is from DSM IV for ana:
* Refusal to maintain body weight at or above a minimally normal weight for age and
height, for example, weight loss leading to maintenance of body weight less than 85%
of that expected or failure to make expected weight gain during period of growth,
leading to body weight less than 85% of that expected.
* Intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat, even though underweight.
* Disturbance in the way one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence
of body weight or shape on self evaluation, or denial of the seriousness of the current
low body weight.
* In postmenarcheal females, amenorrhea, i.e., the absence of at least 3 consecutive
menstrual cycles. A woman having periods only while on hormone medication (e.g.
estrogen) still qualifies as having amenorrhea.

It's an irrational fear of being fat, and pt's exhibit behaviors that make them wayyy thinner than they should be.

right, but you have no idea of any of that, because they suicided and thus you can't ask them. just because they exhibit the same physical traits as what is highlighted there, does not mean they have the same reason behind doing so.

 

[fancymylotus]

Uh, you make a proposal for something to do? e.g. "Hey, want to come hiking with me on XXday?

Women aren't that complex. For some, it helps if you offer a beer at the end of the hike too!

or a glass of vinooooooooooooo

 

[fancymylotus]

don't mind my loopy ****, im just sleep deprived and this raw vegan nonsense is sucking my energy away

 

[DermViser]

right, but you have no idea of any of that, because they suicided and thus you can't ask them. just because they exhibit the same physical traits as what is highlighted there, does not mean they have the same reason behind doing so.

I don't know about the correlation of anorexia and suicide. They usually die of malnutrition I thought.

 

[redpanda]

If I don't throw the word "date" in, she will think I just want to be friends.

Well, you can add the word "date" if you want but women aren't as obtuse as they seem. Many of them catch on when men/women are interested without having to be hit over the head with it.

 

[PL198]

If I don't throw the word "date" in, she will think I just want to be friends.

It's way more in your demeanor. if you're taking a girl out 1 on 1, that doesn't usually mean you want to be friends with her. if you did that, you'd invite her to a group thing or just talk to her in a group thing

 

[touchpause13]

I don't know about the correlation of anorexia and suicide. They usually die of malnutrition I thought.

That's exactly what I'm trying to tell him.

 

[PL198]

I don't know about the correlation of anorexia and suicide. They usually die of malnutrition I thought.

I don't either, but I think that automatically assuming someone to be irrational is a terrible idea. They could suicide by malnutrition.

 

[touchpause13]

I don't either, but I think that automatically assuming someone to be irrational is a terrible idea. They could suicide by malnutrition.

A person with an eating disorder is not rational. That's what that means

 

[PL198]

A person with an eating disorder is not rational. That's what that means

ok, yet just because they choose not to eat doesn't mean they have an eating disorder.

 

[Roxas]

ok, yet just because they choose not to eat doesn't mean they have an eating disorder.

Seriously?

 

[Mad Jack]

ok, yet just because they choose not to eat doesn't mean they have an eating disorder.

Unless they're on a hunger strike or have refused care because they are terminally ill and have decided to let the disease run its course as quickly as possible, starving oneself is generally considered to be an eating disorder, because it generally has a severe psychological problem associated with it. People with eating disorders will straight up tell you that they are being irrational but that they can't control it, and that they don't want to die but they can't stop.

 

[DermViser]

ok, yet just because they choose not to eat doesn't mean they have an eating disorder.

Uh, no.

 

[PL198]

Seriously?

if you think this is debatable, then you're saying it's impossible for someone to rationally commit suicide through these means. just because you fear death so much, doesn't mean someone else does.

 

[PL198]

an eating disorder is when you have a psychological illness that causes you to eat in a way negative for your health. if you choose to do so while being completely rational, then by definition, that isn't an illness. unless we're going to say that all mcdonalds customers have eating disorders.

 

[Mad Jack]

if you think this is debatable, then you're saying it's impossible for someone to rationally commit suicide through these means. just because you fear death so much, doesn't mean someone else does.

People who die of eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia are not trying to die, they're trying to be as thin as possible because they see themselves as fat no matter how skinny they get. That is in no way a rational decision on any level. If you're talking about people hunger striking to death, that's a totally different thing and is not considered a disease or an eating disorder.

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

the word normal is used. normal isn't defined by arbitrarily saying " lean people are cool, being fat is a disease." it's defined by what is common.

you keep misrepresenting my point, because you're unwilling to admit it. it's not going to be a good discussion. you continually do this in debates. it's whatever though.

P.s. suicide does not indicate a mental illness. it is completely possible to rationally commit suicide.

Its completely possible to be rational and commit suicide? But then you say normal is what is the most common. Do you think rational people commit suicide?. Thats not normal. I would have to say 99% of people who commit suicide are irrational or depressed. Sure maybe an odd person might be rational. But if you have worked in the medical field you know thats not how we operate, we don't take the rarest scenario and base our treatment on that rare exception.

Suicidial thoughts do indicate mental illness.

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

an eating disorder is when you have a psychological illness that causes you to eat in a way negative for your health. if you choose to do so while being completely rational, then by definition, that isn't an illness. unless we're going to say that all mcdonalds customers have eating disorders.

So if a person with anorexia comes to your office, and says I'm doing this because i want to. You don't think she has a mental illness, because she's rational?

Edit: I'm not trying to attack you, or take sides, I'm just wondering about your reasoning for this. Maybe I just don't understand what you are saying.

 

[DermViser]

an eating disorder is when you have a psychological illness that causes you to eat in a way negative for your health. if you choose to do so while being completely rational, then by definition, that isn't an illness. unless we're going to say that all mcdonalds customers have eating disorders.

No that is not what an eating disorder is. You're either horribly naive or being purposefully obtuse. People with eating disorders are not rational.

 

[PL198]

So if a person with anorexia comes to your office, and says I'm doing this because i want to. You don't think she has a mental illness, because she's rational?

.

 

[PL198]

No that is not what an eating disorder is. You're either horribly naive or being purposefully obtuse. People with eating disorders are not rational.

I never said they were. Read my words carefully. someone doesn't have to have an eating disorder to eat in a way that hurts their health.

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

I think she does. I don't assume she does. huge difference.

Please explain the difference

 

[PL198]

Please explain the difference

wait, I didn't see you said they come to you and say they want to do it. in that case, no , I do not think they have an eating disorder. I assume they are rational , like everyone else is assumed to be and thus their testimony regarding wanting to do it, is valid and they do not have an eating disorder. unless for some reason I can decide they are irrational, then there is absolutely 0 grounds for me thinking they have an eating disorder in that situation.

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

wait, I didn't see you said they come to you and say they want to do it. in that case, no , I do not think they have an eating disorder. I assume they are rational , like everyone else is assumed to be and thus their testimony regarding wanting to do it, is valid and they do not have an eating disorder. unless for some reason I can decide they are irrational, then there is absolutely 0 grounds for me thinking they have an eating disorder in that situation.

So do you treat them or not?

 

[Mad Jack]

I never said they were. Read my words carefully. someone doesn't have to have an eating disorder to eat in a way that hurts their health.

When did we make an argument that all people who starve themselves have eating disorders? It's like you've gone full potato.

 

[PL198]

So do you treat them or not?

What am i treating them for? Your scenario doesn't make sense. If they say they are of their own volition, then they wouldn't be seeking treatment from me in terms of the behavior..

 

[Mad Jack]

wait, I didn't see you said they come to you and say they want to do it. in that case, no , I do not think they have an eating disorder. I assume they are rational , like everyone else is assumed to be and thus their testimony regarding wanting to do it, is valid and they do not have an eating disorder. unless for some reason I can decide they are irrational, then there is absolutely 0 grounds for me thinking they have an eating disorder in that situation.

So you would let your patient kill themself?

 

[Mad Jack]

What am i treating them for? Your scenario doesn't make sense. If they say they are of their own volition, then they wouldn't be seeking treatment from me in terms of the behavior..

You realize you could be sued for malpractice for this sort of thing, right?

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

What am i treating them for? Your scenario doesn't make sense. If they say they are of their own volition, then they wouldn't be seeking treatment from me in terms of the behavior..

Patients with anorexia have lots of problems, due to malnourishment. But most of these patients are on anti depressants too. My point is you are talking about extremely rare cases, when you get a patient whose rational and has suicidal thoughts or has an eating disorder and doesn't have something psychologically wrong with them. Which would be hard to tell.

 

[DermViser]

I never said they were. Read my words carefully. someone doesn't have to have an eating disorder to eat in a way that hurts their health.

Eating unhealthy food is not an eating disorder.

 

[DermViser]

What am i treating them for? Your scenario doesn't make sense. If they say they are of their own volition, then they wouldn't be seeking treatment from me in terms of the behavior..

Are you in middle school? Not every disease or disorder has an organic etiology or a lesion on MRI. The body is more complex than that esp. when it involves Neuroanatomy and Neuroscience.

 

[Mad Jack]

I think he put me on ignore weak

 

[touchpause13]

What am i treating them for? Your scenario doesn't make sense. If they say they are of their own volition, then they wouldn't be seeking treatment from me in terms of the behavior..