Current Firefighter and EMT and aspiring EMS Physician with some questions

[KD1655]

I am currently a firefighter, EMT, rescue technician, etc. in New Jersey and have about 7 years of experience in emergency services (since I was 17). Since freshman year of college, it has been my sole desire to attend medical school, complete an EM residency and EMS fellowship and then be medical director for an urban fire department. As a EMT, I have worked in a variety of different settings (volunteer campus EMT to full-time EMT for local police department to pay for college to paid EMT in busy urban system again to pay for college). All this work left me little time to study for the MCAT and I have not taken it but am scheduled to on April 23. I completed my undergraduate degree in biomedical engineering from NJ Institute of Technology last May and graduated with a bunch of different honors. My AMCAS cumulative undergraduate GPA is around 3.65 and my BCMP GPA is around 3.45 (thanks to a mediocre freshman year before graduating). I am finishing up my Masters degree in Materials Science and Engineering also at NJIT with a 4.00 GPA. For the past two years, I have led a research group investigating traumatic brain injury caused by explosion concussion using electrical impedance spectroscopy and mouse models. In addition to this research focus, I am very interested in resuscitation research and reperfusion injury; there is no doubt in my mind that my research focus is based upon my EMS experience. In order to continue my research, I have enrolled in the PhD program but my colleagues and the PI knows that I will be applying to medical school for Fall 2011. I have a few published poster abstracts already and should have at least one first author paper published within the next month. I have always wanted to be a physician but I have grown quite fond of research in the past couple of years, which has led me to consider applying for MD/PhD programs. In doing so, would I limit my potential to pursue clinical emergency medicine and specifically EMS as a career? I know that there are very few EM physicians that are medical scientists and I don't think that I have ever head of an EMS physician that is a MD, PhD; has anybody? Would applying to a straight MD program give me more options? Would a MS and MD allow me to do some research specifically geared towards EMS, TBI, and resuscitation? I have posted a similar question on the MD/PhD forum with little help from them.

This dilemma brings me to another issue that I would like to get your opinions on. I will be getting my MS degree in May 2010, which leaves me about a year before hopefully starting a medical program. I have three options that I am trying to decide between:

1. Attend a full-time paramedic school and work EMS part time. I figure that the experience as a paramedic would be invaluable to me if I do indeed pursue a career as an EMS physician. I started a part-time paramedic program last year but had to drop it because I was taking ~15 graduate credits a semester for my masters and doing research. Does anybody know of a good full-time medic program near NJ?
2. Work full time doing EMS or utilizing my engineering degrees/acquired research skills.
3. Start a PhD program in biomedical engineering at NJIT and hope to get into the UMDNJ MD/PhD program (which has an agreement with NJIT) and get advanced standing into the MD/PhD program.

Any insight from any people in the know would be greatly appreciated.

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[docB]

Congratulations on putting together a pretty impressive CV. I think you'll have success going forward.

I would choose option 2, work and do research using what you have now. Going into the application process your EMS experience is sufficient. That plus ongoing research will be the most impressive thing to interviewers.

I would not go to paramedic school (and I run a paramedic school). Since your goal is to go to med school you may not complete your paramedic didactic, clinical, field internship and testing before you start med school. Even then you really won't have time to work as a medic and a paramedic education with no experience is not as valuable as many seem to think. Your EMS experience as it stands is enough to count as "Did EMS" on anyone's ledger in admissions. The majority of admissions faculty don't know the difference between an EMT, a firefighter and a medic anyway.

I would shy away from the PhD program somewhat because it almost seems like you would be suicide applying into the UMDNJ MD/PhD program and if you didn't get into that your efforts might be wasted.

So good luck going forward.

 

[canjosh]

I think I'd just go straight MD. I believe you'd have opportunities to do research without the PhD, as it seems like you're mostly interested in a specific clinical field. FYI, I know an attending who completed the GEMS fellowship at UT Southwestern in Dallas...he said it was a waste of time. Actually, I haven't run into many EM guys who were glad they did a fellowship. You might be able to make a case for Tox, but you certainly don't need the EMS fellowship to get places. In fact, with your interests in resuscitation, you could also have a career in CCM or anesthesiology or a combination of the above.

About your application, depending on your MCAT you'll probably need to apply somewhat broadly. You have outstanding extracurriculars, but don't forget that this is a numbers game first. Your GPAs are OK, but you really need to blow the MCAT up. 32+ would put you in real good shape. Anyways, as docB said you should have great success...just don't throw all your eggs in one basket. Good luck!

 

[TerraMedicX]

DocB pretty much covered everything I was gonna say. Work and do research...AND have some fun!! Since I'm right in the thick of the worst part of med school right now, take my word that enjoying yourself a little before you start school can be a lifesaver!

I have to disagree with Canjosh though. I think, as DocB said, you have a very impressive CV already! Particularly having a 4.0 grad school gpa, and I'm guessing from what you've said you have a good upward trend in your grades. Hell, I didn't even have a 3.0 gpa and somehow still got in! That's not to say you can blow off the MCAT!! You ABSOLUTELY still need to do well on the MCAT, and applying broadly never hurts.

If doing research is something you're very passionate about, then applying to MD/PhD programs might be something you want to do. Can you do research with your MS? Sure! You can probably do research with only your medical degree. With the trend of evidence based medicine, I think EM would only be better served by having better trained researchers in its ranks, and EMS in particular has need of having researchers working on prehospital medicine!

Good luck to you!
Nate.

 

[KD1655]

Thank you very much for your responses thus far. I am leaning more towards the MD/PhD program because I have a general love for biophysics and engineering and would absolutely love to mesh medicine and engineering with a particular emphasis on prehospital care. I agree that prehospital medicine and emergency medicine are grossly under represented in academic medical research and I hope to do what I can to bridge a bit of that gap. My major concern was that I would be limiting my prospectus for clinical medicine (especially EM and EMS) with the MD/PhD program. However, from what I have read on this post, that does not seem to be the case.

 

[jwk]

I'm a little confused about why you didn't apply for med school during undergrad. Everything else looks good, but it seems like you just keep putting off your goal of being a physician by adding things that you think will make you more competitive. Am I missing something here?

 

[Dwindlin]

I'm a little confused about why you didn't apply for med school during undergrad. Everything else looks good, but it seems like you just keep putting off your goal of being a physician by adding things that you think will make you more competitive. Am I missing something here?

lol, I had the same thought when I read his/her post. The stats/extras are WAY more impressive than anything I had

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Tell me about this police department where you were a full-time EMT.

 

[Dwindlin]

Tell me about this police department where you were a full-time EMT.

There was a service like this near where I worked. The EMS service was handled through the county sheriffs office, so the deputies were all emts/medics. Fire in the county was handled by small volly services.

There is a service where I live now that has a "public safety" department. All the employee's are cross trained fire, police, and EMS and you rotate in all three.

 

[KD1655]

I am from New Jersey and we have several police-based ambulance services. I have provided the links to several of them or information regarding them below:

http://patersononline.net/potm/2009/03/09/passaic-sheriffs-department-to-provide-ambulance-service/

http://www.emergencysquad.com/

http://www.cranford.com/police/display.asp?choice=9


One of New Jersey's largest cities, Elizabeth (population >100,000) had a relatively large EMS department that was operated by the police department. On January 15, 2010, the EMS operations were turned over to the fire department.

During the latter stages of undergrad, I was so busy trying to balance working two EMS jobs to pay for college while doing an engineering major that I never really had the time to adequately study for the MCAT. I have registered to take the MCAT in April and will be applying to medical school shortly thereafter.

 

[canjosh]

DocB pretty much covered everything I was gonna say. Work and do research...AND have some fun!! Since I'm right in the thick of the worst part of med school right now, take my word that enjoying yourself a little before you start school can be a lifesaver!

I have to disagree with Canjosh though. I think, as DocB said, you have a very impressive CV already! Particularly having a 4.0 grad school gpa, and I'm guessing from what you've said you have a good upward trend in your grades. Hell, I didn't even have a 3.0 gpa and somehow still got in! That's not to say you can blow off the MCAT!! You ABSOLUTELY still need to do well on the MCAT, and applying broadly never hurts.

If doing research is something you're very passionate about, then applying to MD/PhD programs might be something you want to do. Can you do research with your MS? Sure! You can probably do research with only your medical degree. With the trend of evidence based medicine, I think EM would only be better served by having better trained researchers in its ranks, and EMS in particular has need of having researchers working on prehospital medicine!

Good luck to you!
Nate.

Yeah, I apparently overlooked the grad GPA which is a 4.0. That will help significantly.

 

[leviathan]

I would just apply for the MD program if that is your ultimate goal to practice medicine and do research on the side. You can still do research as an MD, too. I'm not sure what benefits having a PhD also affords you, because I don't know a lot about it. But from my somewhat ignorant perspective on that matter, it seems like having the PhD as well doesn't really help you pursue your interest in research any more than just being an MD would. I know the medical directors for the ambulance service I worked for were only MDs, and most of them publish extensively in high impact journals related to EM, resuscitation, cardiology, etc.

 

[KD1655]

Thank you for all the replies and kind advice. I have decided again going to paramedic school next year and am now deciding between the MD/PhD programs and straight MD program applications. I will certainly apply to a few MD/PhD programs because I absolutely love engineering/physics and its applications in medicine, particularly physiology. I may be getting a bit ahead of myself, but does anybody know any information (other than what is offered on the LIJ website) about the FDNY EMS fellowship?

 

[estradiol9]

Totally random and unhelpful, but I go to NJIT too. I'm also on an EMS squad.