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Midwest - replacing a retiring pathologist who I guess was making more than that. Don't know, don't care. Contract's a contract.
Current fellows: how's the job hunt this year?
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Midwest - replacing a retiring pathologist who I guess was making more than that. Don't know, don't care. Contract's a contract.
Silverlining1234
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Agree market is good right now. Surg path subspecialty fellowship (only 1 fellowship total) with plenty of job interviews. Employed pathologist jobs (aka no partnership track) with starting salaries for people straight out of training ranging from 220s, 240s to >300,000 (plus bonuses) and partnership track jobs starting in low 200,000s. All in desirable places to live (aka not Midwest).
Other fellows around me getting jobs in academia starting around 250,000 with sizeable bonuses.
Can’t complain!
Other fellows around me getting jobs in academia starting around 250,000 with sizeable bonuses.
Can’t complain!
Perhaps you should thank those who have sounded the alarm instead of criticizing! We need to keep up the heat as Big Academia and Big Corporate Pathology and Big CAP and Big ABP want to flood the market with pathologists with poor communication skills! Until we have leverage over these mobsters we need to continue to thin the herd. MPGA! FPN!! BCAP!!!
Thank you Thrombus for all your hard work.
To add to the previous posts, my friend was a Breast fellow last year and got an academic position in the Northeast, 250k + benefits
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I was at a pathology meeting recently and a speaker talked about the effect of climate change on the pathologist distribution in the united states. Sounds like there will be a lot less pathologists needed on the coasts as sea levels rise. Better get a job in the Midwest.
I heard about that. They also talked about the correlation between phallus girth and job market prospects
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I did not see that study. I did hear a presentation about the effects of gluteal implants on ability to sit for long periods of time. They are recommending pathologists not have that surgery.
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Are you going to stay in path now?
D
deleted314957
You can’t insult me because mine’s ~60 but, you really seem to be a troll.
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deleted642280
I agree- Job market seems good to me right now. A lot of people are retiring, so it will be sad to lose all that expertise. However, I had 5 offers from 6 interviews in just the first 2 months of applying and already have a post fellowship job lined up. All the fellows at my hospital in path were hired before graduation last year also (both AP and CP jobs).
No. Radiology.
"Within a few hours of the advertisement going live, we had dozen of applicants, many of whom were very well qualified for the position, and the pathologist we hired came from PathologyOutlines. I thank PathologyOutlines every day." Dr. Bill Kasimer, Chief of Pathology at South Shore Hospital, Massachusetts, 22 October 2018
"We've had a good response from the ad!" A. Schweitzer, Cincinnati Children's, Ohio, 20 September 2018
"We had an overwhelming response, the posting definitely exceeded expectations!" B. McLaughlin, Indian River Medical Center, 7 September 2018
Just an update from pathoutlines. No shortage, still an oversupply (and always will be). Do yourself a favor and stay out of pathology.
"We've had a good response from the ad!" A. Schweitzer, Cincinnati Children's, Ohio, 20 September 2018
"We had an overwhelming response, the posting definitely exceeded expectations!" B. McLaughlin, Indian River Medical Center, 7 September 2018
Just an update from pathoutlines. No shortage, still an oversupply (and always will be). Do yourself a favor and stay out of pathology.
You know all the spots will be filled by desperate IMGs looking for a job in the US and there are programs who are looking for a warm body to gross specimens and do tumor boards.
90% or more of our applicants are IMGs.
90% or more of our applicants are IMGs.
We are currently experiencing Big Corporate Pathology exploiting the desperate foreign national IMG's low balling hospitals for our contract with their inferior, dangerously incompetent product. Unfortunately the CFO's of this world only read the bottom line and react foolishly to Big Corporate Pathology's false promises.
FPN! BCAP!!
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deleted314957
Thrombus, why are you still doing this? Be kind to yourself, retire, and chill.
It really is nice.
It really is nice.
Dude, keep your racist a$$ comments to yourself. I bet most of those “desperate imgs” outperformed you on USMLE and other tests ... Tell your dumb story to “desperate IMG” like Drs Rosai or Fletcher etc.
I hope moderators will block you from spreading this **** !
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Maybe he is heavily invested in the stock market or alternative currency...
Put your money into businesses, land, rental properties ASAP. FLEE THE STOCK MARKET NOW!
Nothing racist in his post. If you don't like free speech in this country, you can get the hell out!
Not meant to be racist at all. There are applicants who are applying to Pathology looking for a job. Are most of them like that? No. there are applicants who apply who don't know much about what a pathologist does day in and day out.
They apply looking to match. If not family practice then maybe Pathology.
You can tell by the questions these applicants ask that they are just looking for a position in the US.
We get people who are good on paper (good board scores) but who are lazy.
Are all like that? No. But there are applicants who Are like that who apply to mid to lower tier programs.
There's an over abundance of programs. As a result floodgates open and programs will rank people to fill their spots.
You see pathologists on here talk about How it's hard to find a good qualified candidate to fill their positions, Now, why is that? Are we churning out too many subpar graduates because of subpar candidates or are our training programs not training residents well?
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D
deleted314957
I think you need to watch it with the “racism” stuff. NOBODY is talking about the inherent superiority of or inferiority of ANY race. Check definitions of
bigotry, prejudice and racism. Also, no one is referring to individual excellence or lack thereof.
He is referring to a cohort that did not compete as well for med school entry and do not compete as well for post graduate medical education positions. These are facts, not opinions.
Some of y’all throw around this “racism” crap like you do “nazis”
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I think folks in this forum and these discussions on the pathology job market / over abundance of path training spots should be advocating directly to the ABP to stop any further expansions of training programs and even closing marginal programs.
Too bad that these discussions, which I do believe can be productive and a good way to communicate between paths all over the country, too often break down into unproductive banter, insults, etc.
We all want the same thing you know.
That said I am very glad to be established and not entering the job market. In New England there are so many good new grads being pumped out up here that it is very easy to fill positions. Dr. Kasimer's quote is spot on. What I am seeing is really good trainees doing 2 fellowships and doing a 3rd fellowship is becoming more common. 3 fellowships was unheard of even 10 yrs ago and in IMO is a really bad sign.
Too bad that these discussions, which I do believe can be productive and a good way to communicate between paths all over the country, too often break down into unproductive banter, insults, etc.
We all want the same thing you know.
That said I am very glad to be established and not entering the job market. In New England there are so many good new grads being pumped out up here that it is very easy to fill positions. Dr. Kasimer's quote is spot on. What I am seeing is really good trainees doing 2 fellowships and doing a 3rd fellowship is becoming more common. 3 fellowships was unheard of even 10 yrs ago and in IMO is a really bad sign.
CMS or MedPac is recommending residency and fellowships slots based on the market need. There are big shortages in certain specialties and excess in others.
This is first time I have seen the government suggest this. There is a problem if you have to take 2 or 3 fellowships.
The ABP is hearing from the FRAUDS at BIG ACADEMIA that there is a SHORTAGE of pathologists! Nothing could be further from the truth with the rampant commoditiazation of the field which forces pathologists to work for pennies on the dollar for CORPORATE SUITS!
DAMN THE ABP. DAMN THE ACADEMICS. FPN! BCAP!!
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I am an IMG looking to be exploited by "Big Coportate Pathology" but still can't find a job. Please direct me to the exploiters
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It occurred to me to come post here in case people are reading this and thinking they shouldn’t go into pathology because of jobs. My first advice is to stop reading SDN, and my second advice is to go into whichever specialty you can see yourself doing for the rest of your life.
My experience: one fellowship, one job application, one job offer accepted. In the large city where I want to live, academic appointment in my ideal field, $215k.
All residents from my non-prestigious residency program who graduated in the years ahead of me are happily employed. One resident at my current fellowship institution even got a job offer (academic) during residency before starting fellowship. A current fellow started fellowship with a job in hand (private) as well.
My experience: one fellowship, one job application, one job offer accepted. In the large city where I want to live, academic appointment in my ideal field, $215k.
All residents from my non-prestigious residency program who graduated in the years ahead of me are happily employed. One resident at my current fellowship institution even got a job offer (academic) during residency before starting fellowship. A current fellow started fellowship with a job in hand (private) as well.
I was also worried years ago when I decided to go into pathology but I got a great parntnership track job that started in the low-mid 200s and partnership salary is above the 90th percentile. I work 40-55hrs a week and average around 45. Location is great for me but may not be great for others (small-medium city). If you work hard, are moderately intelligent and can play nice with others you will find a good job. Like Yaah has said many times, there is a dearth of competent candidates out there so just be better than the rest.
Damn not everyone is motivated by money!!!! Some like research abd teaching that come with academics. You can get your experience in academics for a few years then go into private and do well with your experience under your belt. Why the negativity?
LBJ you aren't going into Path right? So why are you lurking in here criticizing starting incomes of new graduates? Are you even in a residency yet bro?
Dude seriously, I'm probably not alone in saying that it's incredibly annoying watching you $hit on pathology all over this forum just to justify and reinforce your decision to apply to radiology. Every specialty has it's pros and cons, but to go into forums of specialties that you're not even a part of just to point out the negatives is a d!ck move.
Just stating a fact. No negativity from me man. Chill
LBJ, Your time is better spent in the rads forum about how awesome the field is!!!
Spend a whole day grossing specimens and then previewing cases all night then we'll talk bro!
If you don't like Pathology based on the job market or pay, don't go into it. It's that simple.
Better yet, don't bag on other people's income by comparing it to other fields when you haven't broken a sweat in residency yet!!!
Spend a whole day grossing specimens and then previewing cases all night then we'll talk bro!
If you don't like Pathology based on the job market or pay, don't go into it. It's that simple.
Better yet, don't bag on other people's income by comparing it to other fields when you haven't broken a sweat in residency yet!!!
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Like Unty said, not everyone is motivated by money. $215k is more than enough to live comfortably, and better yet, qualifies one for loan forgiveness since it's an academic job. I respect the hell out of family physicians, but you couldn't pay me enough to do that job.
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If you're going to roll the dice and enter this specialty despite your better judgement and all the warnings in countless internet forums, those "215" academic & corporate jobs are considerably more common...and people set their expectations as such...but I wouldn't take the advice of someone who applied to one job and settled for less than some of us pay in federal taxes (and likely with half the vaca and twice the weekly hours). SDN isn't exactly the pulse of the specialty, but you can still find some bits of wisdom and unfiltered opinions.
Path is a specialty in which to proceed at your own caution...I know that despite my reluctance to ever recommend path to anyone, people are still going to choose the route, and if you are intelligent, sociable and hard-working, if you refuse to be fed slop in the troughs at the hands of academic and corporate labs, and if you are willing to move outside some myopic geographic restrictions, you might find a good job that's pays dividends beyond most specialties in terms of quality of life...that's just too big of a gamble for most people with $250k of school debt.
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He still thinks it is so easy to match path this year, and then reapply for rads while a pgy-1. Dude needs to stop bashing until he actually get into rads.
I agree. It just sucks that Pathology used to be so well paid and now 5 years of training gets you family med dollars. It is what it is I guess.
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Everyone I know who went to a decent program is being very well paid, including myself. Institution reputation is important for good jobs in pathology.
Thats definitely true but not the norm. There's a huge disparity in salaries for pathology. In most other specialties, the gap isnt as wide.
I'm only a third year but from what I've read, doing more for less is the trend in every field in medicine, rads included. That's why I think it's important to choose a specialty based on what you can see yourself doing for 20+ years, not for the money, since no one can predict what the future holds.
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I know there’s no chance of changing your opinion, but for the other people who read this:
I didn’t “settle” for anything. As a matter of fact I almost feel guilty because I got exactly what I wanted and didn’t have to try any harder. I wanted an academic appointment in a very specific subspecialty, in a very specific large city. And that’s exactly what I got. There were other postitions I could have applied for, but I wanted this one and I got it.
Now, personally $215k sounds like plenty of money to me. If people want more they can go into private practice, fine. But I wanted to be in academics, that was my choice from the beginning. I do not get much vacation, that’s the truth, but it’s also relatively flexible depending on service coverage. Vacation is the one thing that concerns me. My benefits are fantastic. My hours, based on the current faculty, will be fine. I will be on service for 3 weeks followed by a week off service. And you know what? I actually like my ****ing career and have no desire to work 30 hours a week or whatever this guy is suggesting. I also have no desire to make huge amounts of money and I wouldn’t have followed my career path if I did. Newsflash: people have different career goals and life goals. The fact that I was able to get exactly what I wanted was the point I was making.
I will also point out what I previously said, which is that all of the previous residents from my program are happily employed, most in private practice with comfortable salaries.
Maybe I sound defensive but actually I’m just kind of pissed off that some anonymous dingus thinks I “settled” on my dream job. I only applied to the one I got, because I knew I would be the perfect candidate, and I was.
When comparing salaries you have to look at hours worked and when. Radiology isn’t the lifestyle specialty it used to be and you do a lot of nights and weekends. There’s a decent percentage of PP pathologists who probably make more per hour than radiologists. I know I make more in salary and per hour than the radiologists at my hospital.
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Pathologists make more money than family medicine. Here are the facts:
In the 2018 Medscape compensation survey by specialty
Family Medicine $219,000
Pathology $286,000
Medscape: Medscape Access
If you go to the library and look at the AAMC compensation survey, you will see that starting pathologists make more than starting family medicine physicians. The actual numbers cannot be posted because the information is copyrighted.
So two pieces of data say that pathologist make more than family medicine.
Daniel Remick, M.D.
Boston University School of Medicine and Boston Medical Center
In the 2018 Medscape compensation survey by specialty
Family Medicine $219,000
Pathology $286,000
Medscape: Medscape Access
If you go to the library and look at the AAMC compensation survey, you will see that starting pathologists make more than starting family medicine physicians. The actual numbers cannot be posted because the information is copyrighted.
So two pieces of data say that pathologist make more than family medicine.
Daniel Remick, M.D.
Boston University School of Medicine and Boston Medical Center
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Pathologists definitely make more than most family Med docs. Plus pathology is actually interesting, family medicine is the worst and most boring field of all of medicine, and I wouldn’t do it even if starting pay right out of residency was 750k.
