C's in prerequisite

[hfpepperbean47]

And the question about Cs - I got Cs in all of my prerequisite Physics classes. It hurt my prerequisite GPA but I counteracted that with a 360 score on the Physics section of the OAT. A "C" grade is easy to rectify and not the end of the world.

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[eyestrain]

No kidding, anybody who goes on and bashes these people (on an online forum, nonetheless) lacks class and maturity. My advice to those people arguing and bickering about GPA and whatever else was spewed out is this: Grow up. I don't care if your GPA is a perfect 4.0, if you are that rude and petty, I wouldn't want you coming anywhere near me. I'd find another doc.

How does someone lack class and maturity by voicing their opinion that there should be some kind of academic standard for admission into optmetry school? Everyone here has to have some lower limit for GPA in mind, but most appear unwilling to say what it is. I've asked several times and have received no answer. You can't tell me that you would want to see sub 2.0 GPAs getting in, would you?

 

[hfpepperbean47]

Its not that they lack class and maturity because they voiced their opinion, it was the way in which it was carried out. There is a difference between stating your opinion and, frankly, calling people out and being a childish ass (I'm saying this in general, not singleing anyone out). Would I want a doctor to see me if I found out they had a 2.0GPA? Absolutely not! I wouldn't trust that person to come near me. What irked me was the petty bickering that ensued. You can't tell me that wasn't childish!

I think there should be an absolute minimum GPA, maybe around a 2.50. That number is totally subjective, but there should be a cut-off point. What if you have a 2.4 GPA and really want to go to Optometry school? Take one more class and raise it and shine in the other areas that optometry schools look at. There should be a minimum requirement for GPA, but its hard to quantify something like that based upon school differences, etc...

But no, and I am stating the obvious here, nobody under a 2.0 (wherever you went to school) should even be considered for professional school. Getting a 2.0 at any school (Ivy League or small town Community College) doesn't show professionalism or a desire to succeed.

 

[hfpepperbean47]

And, no, I don't want any comments referring to President Bush. We all know he was a "C" student at Yale but this is an optometry forum, not a political science one.

 

[eyestrain]

I think there should be an absolute minimum GPA, maybe around a 2.50. That number is totally subjective, but there should be a cut-off point. What if you have a 2.4 GPA and really want to go to Optometry school? Take one more class and raise it and shine in the other areas that optometry schools look at. There should be a minimum requirement for GPA, but its hard to quantify something like that based upon school differences, etc...

But no, and I am stating the obvious here, nobody under a 2.0 (wherever you went to school) should even be considered for professional school. Getting a 2.0 at any school (Ivy League or small town Community College) doesn't show professionalism or a desire to succeed.

Thanks for at least believing there should be a minimum GPA. I understand that its hard to quantify a minimum because of differences in schools, but I still don't think a 3.0 is too much to ask, no matter where you go to school.

 

[iproblem]

Thanks for at least believing there should be a minimum GPA. I understand that its hard to quantify a minimum because of differences in schools, but I still don't think a 3.0 is too much to ask, no matter where you go to school.

why not set the minimal cutoff GPA to 3.6? thats not too much to ask right? anyone could get it. make optometry schools harder than medical schools to get in. yeah thats right, thats how you like it? anyone with lower than 3.6 can go ahead and be a janitor for some elementary school.

 

[eyestrain]

why not set the minimal cutoff GPA to 3.6? thats not too much to ask right? anyone could get it. make optometry schools harder than medical schools to get in. yeah thats right, thats how you like it? anyone with lower than 3.6 can go ahead and be a janitor for some elementary school.

If the schools wanted to set a 3.6 cutoff, then fine. I don't really understand the point or the tone of your post. I'm not arguing for a 3.6 cutoff, just a 3.0, which I think is more than reasonable. And I'll ask you specifically, iproblem, what would be YOUR minimum GPA limit?

 

[KHE]

why not set the minimal cutoff GPA to 3.6? thats not too much to ask right? anyone could get it. make optometry schools harder than medical schools to get in. yeah thats right, thats how you like it? anyone with lower than 3.6 can go ahead and be a janitor for some elementary school.

No one is saying that people with less than a 3.6 should become janitors.

But for the 100th time, is it unreasonable to expect that people seeking admission to programs in which they will be trained and licensed to care for the visual welfare of the population somehow find a way to obtain at least a B average? A 2.5 is a C average. Grades of C represent "average." We should not have "average" people admitted to professional programs. We should have people who are "above average."

Is that so unreasonable? To be frank, I'm shocked at how many people on these forums seem to be perfectly comfortable with the attitude of "hey! who cares what your GPA is? As long as you're really really nice and really really want to be an OD, well then that's fine."

That doesn't mean people who fail to meet that standard are bad people, or stupid or anything like that. But maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't be training them to safeguard the visual welfare of the population.

 

[hfpepperbean47]

I think iproblem has some of the more amusing posts on this entire forum...the doggie one, classic, haha!

 

[iproblem]

If the schools wanted to set a 3.6 cutoff, then fine. I don't really understand the point or the tone of your post. I'm not arguing for a 3.6 cutoff, just a 3.0, which I think is more than reasonable. And I'll ask you specifically, iproblem, what would be YOUR minimum GPA limit?

i've said it before and i will say it again. there should be NO minimum GPA cuz it discriminates students who work hard to study and keep a job to sustain a living. just tell me why we should let these rich white folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars to spare to take such and such prep courses to raise gpa or oat score and whatnot, while some of us who are not so fortunate (unfortunate is an overstatement) can't afford any of this luxury and still keeps fighting on day and night to battle against this social animosity toward ppl with lower than average gpa. just like kanye west said, bush (white people) dont care about black people. its a shame that after so many decades that racism and social discrimination still exists in such a broad scale that even forums like this one have ppl who are full of hatred and perpetual determination to put down the minorities.

 

[eyestrain]

i've said it before and i will say it again. there should be NO minimum GPA cuz it discriminates students who work hard to study and keep a job to sustain a living. just tell me why we should let these rich white folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars to spare to take such and such prep courses to raise gpa or oat score and whatnot, while some of us who are not so fortunate (unfortunate is an overstatement) can't afford any of this luxury and still keeps fighting on day and night to battle against this social animosity toward ppl with lower than average gpa. just like kanye west said, bush (white people) dont care about black people. its a shame that after so many decades that racism and social discrimination still exists in such a broad scale that even forums like this one have ppl who are full of hatred and perpetual determination to put down the minorities.

What are you talking about? Do you actually believe the stuff you're writing? I don't understand why you think that people who get decent grades are all rich kids who've never worked a day in their lives. It's simply not true. Prep courses? Are you serious? And why are you even bringing race into this? Playing the race card in this situation is cheap and you know it. I hope this was meant to be one of those amusing posts that hfpepperbean47 was referring to, but I don't think that's the case.

And accusing me of "putting down minoriites"? What minorities would that be? I don't recall ever mentioning anything about minorities. You're the one turning this into a race issue for no particular reason.

Wow.

 

[ODduck]

I think that it should be left up to the individual schools to decide if they even want a minimum GPA or not. I trust OD schools to accept students who they believe can and will succeed as professional students and later on as professionals.

I guess I'll bite and answer eyestrain's question. What would my minimum GPA be if I ran an admission's department?

2.7

I chose this number because it is a B- at most schools and I believe that B-'s at least deserve some consideration. However, I would only consider the cases where a student showed a great upward trend in their GPA as their classes got harder or are incredibly involved in their community or school. If someone gets C's in Gen Chem, but then pull off A-'s all through harder courses in the same subject such as O-Chem and Biochem, then that proves to me that they are capable of performing. Also if someone had a rough stretch in a series and scored very well on that particular section of the OAT, then I believe that that shows competence as well. If that same person who pulled C's in Gen Chem scores a 380 on the Gen Chem section of the OAT, I think they know a little about Gen Chem, whether their GPA from freshman year shows it or not. Grades matter, as they should, but they should not be the end all factor. Almost anyone can get a very high GPA if all they do is sit at home and study, but that doesn't make for a very well rounded individual and in my opinion, doesn't sound like someone who would be a good clinician, high GPA or not.

 

[Optomoman]

I have a great friend who has a terrible GPA, and because of that, he will never be considered by any of the schools. I know he would be a great Optometrist... But the fact is, he obviously didn't want it bad enough. It doesn't take a genius to get at least a 3.0. So, if you can't get at least a 3.0 in your prereqs, than I would find a different career path.

 

[eyestrain]

I have a great friend who has a terrible GPA, and because of that, he will never be considered by any of the schools. I know he would be a great Optometrist... But the fact is, he obviously didn't want it bad enough. It doesn't take a genius to get at least a 3.0. So, if you can't get at least a 3.0 in your prereqs, than I would find a different career path.

Exactly. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to get a 3.0. You can even get a few Cs and balance them with a few As and still get a 3.0.

 

[iproblem]

What are you talking about? Do you actually believe the stuff you're writing? I don't understand why you think that people who get decent grades are all rich kids who've never worked a day in their lives. It's simply not true. Prep courses? Are you serious? And why are you even bringing race into this? Playing the race card in this situation is cheap and you know it. I hope this was meant to be one of those amusing posts that hfpepperbean47 was referring to, but I don't think that's the case.

And accusing me of "putting down minoriites"? What minorities would that be? I don't recall ever mentioning anything about minorities. You're the one turning this into a race issue for no particular reason.

Wow.

typical white rural american response to underprivileged citizens who are still suffering from the consequences and repercussions of previous generations of inhumane and satanic actions toward the minority community. i understand where you're coming from. having everything you've ever needed being provided by your parents. the only worry for you is which prep course to take to boost that less than extraordinary OAT score. what prep course? browse around the OAT forum and see how many posters asking for kaplan course, princeton review, or whatever else cuz they've got the dough to pay for it.

what i found most fascinating is that you people are still refusing to take responsibilities for your actions and inactions which have been widening the gap between the rich and poor. i urge all those being oppressed by THE MAN to stand up and fight!

 

[hfpepperbean47]

Thanks for the diatribe, Al. Please tell me the story again how "my people" have made everything unbearable for "your people". Then I'll have "my people" call "your people" and we'll get everything straightened out. Then we can have tea, watch Nascar, and I will let you listen to my IPod nano (my favorites are Tupac and Lynyrd Skynyrd --- Sweet Home Alabama, where the skies are so blue). Long live the confederacy!

Hillbilly Joe - OUT

 

[ODduck]

Geez, can we please close this thread now, I don't come here to talk about socioeconomics and race relations.

 

[daysend85]

No kidding, anybody who goes on and bashes these people (on an online forum, nonetheless) lacks class and maturity. My advice to those people arguing and bickering about GPA and whatever else was spewed out is this: Grow up. I don't care if your GPA is a perfect 4.0, if you are that rude and petty, I wouldn't want you coming anywhere near me. I'd find another doc.

I hope I'm not included in this, my comments were directed to those that were trying to squash the motivation out of those who have lower GPAs. I agree, superiority complexes would make me look elsewhere to find a better optometrist.

 

[daysend85]

This is ridiculous. I will say this again, what EXACTLY is the point in arguing over the minimum GPA required to get into optometry school? I must be missing something...are there people on this forum who are on the admissions committee at optometry schools? If nobody is, which is probably the case, what good does it do to argue over GPA?

 

[hfpepperbean47]

I second that notion, ODduck. You don't wanna listen to my Ipod? I have the Don Imus stream playing right now.

 

[eyelectric]

i've said it before and i will say it again. there should be NO minimum GPA cuz it discriminates students who work hard to study and keep a job to sustain a living. just tell me why we should let these rich white folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars to spare to take such and such prep courses to raise gpa or oat score and whatnot, while some of us who are not so fortunate (unfortunate is an overstatement) can't afford any of this luxury and still keeps fighting on day and night to battle against this social animosity toward ppl with lower than average gpa. just like kanye west said, bush (white people) dont care about black people. its a shame that after so many decades that racism and social discrimination still exists in such a broad scale that even forums like this one have ppl who are full of hatred and perpetual determination to put down the minorities.

I'm not quite sure if you are joking (if you are I am quite amused); if not, here is why your argument makes absolutely no sense. First of all, how does a minimum GPA requirement discriminate against students who work hard? It doesn't. It discriminates against those who are lazy, apathetic and can't handle the material. If you have to work to support yourself and can't handle a full load then take fewer classes. Also, you can get student loans and scholarships to supplement your income, especially if you are in financial need. Second, taking prep courses such as Kaplan has absolutely no effect on one's GPA. These courses are only to help with standardized tests such as the OAT. As for the argument that only rich people can afford these classes, Kaplan offers the same courses at discounted rates for those who can't afford the regular fees.

There should be some sort of minimum GPA; what that is, I don't know. Your GPA is a good indicator of how you have performed in school in the past and how you will continue to perform in the future. Do you really want students to be admitted who can't handle the workload and will end up dropping out? The schools don't want that and the students don't either becasue they will still have to pay back all of the loans they have taken out thus far. The bottom line is that optometry is a professional degree and some sort of minimum standards need to be met before being accepted into a school.

 

[luckyfool]

typical white rural american response to underprivileged citizens who are still suffering from the consequences and repercussions of previous generations of inhumane and satanic actions toward the minority community. i understand where you're coming from. having everything you've ever needed being provided by your parents. the only worry for you is which prep course to take to boost that less than extraordinary OAT score. what prep course? browse around the OAT forum and see how many posters asking for kaplan course, princeton review, or whatever else cuz they've got the dough to pay for it.

what i found most fascinating is that you people are still refusing to take responsibilities for your actions and inactions which have been widening the gap between the rich and poor. i urge all those being oppressed by THE MAN to stand up and fight!

Your logic has more holes than a slice of swiss cheese.

 

[hye345]

i've said it before and i will say it again. there should be NO minimum GPA cuz it discriminates students who work hard to study and keep a job to sustain a living. just tell me why we should let these rich white folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars to spare to take such and such prep courses to raise gpa or oat score and whatnot, while some of us who are not so fortunate (unfortunate is an overstatement) can't afford any of this luxury and still keeps fighting on day and night to battle against this social animosity toward ppl with lower than average gpa. just like kanye west said, bush (white people) dont care about black people. its a shame that after so many decades that racism and social discrimination still exists in such a broad scale that even forums like this one have ppl who are full of hatred and perpetual determination to put down the minorities.

typical white rural american response to underprivileged citizens who are still suffering from the consequences and repercussions of previous generations of inhumane and satanic actions toward the minority community. i understand where you're coming from. having everything you've ever needed being provided by your parents. the only worry for you is which prep course to take to boost that less than extraordinary OAT score. what prep course? browse around the OAT forum and see how many posters asking for kaplan course, princeton review, or whatever else cuz they've got the dough to pay for it.

what i found most fascinating is that you people are still refusing to take responsibilities for your actions and inactions which have been widening the gap between the rich and poor. i urge all those being oppressed by THE MAN to stand up and fight!

Umm... no. There are many things wrong with what you just said.

First of all, not all white people are rich; second of all, just because someone is rich doesn't mean they spent $$$ on test prep courses; third of all, for those who do, it won't make an ounce of difference if the person doesn't put in some effort, or if the person never cared to try in the first place.

Bad grades don't come from minorities; they come from laziness, carelessness, and apathy.

I know this white guy who is failing at least 2 subjects, and who doesn't even actively try to seek help for it. Likewise, I know this indian guy whose an honor student with a bunch of EC's. Trying to divide the world into your own personal groups based on socioeconomic backgrounds isn't that simple, my friend.

And finally, with regards to your claim that this forum is full of hateful bigots: YOU bought up the race issue first. Accusing members of an anonomous forum of being racist, then penalizing them for defending themselves, doesn't show good taste, especially for an aspiring doctor.

 

[DrSpontaneouz83]

Yeah, I am a minority student of Hispanic descent and I HATE the race card being thrown around. I personally came from a financially underprivileged family but I busted my A$$ to fund my way through school (ie; scholarships, loans) and has thus far built a lot of character. I did take a Kaplan course but financial assistance with the program made it possible. However, I did not take school lightly and did well above average in a perdominately white institution. And yes, that did mean being broke without a job so I can focus on academia. Though there are racial stereotypes that are unfortunately true in the academic realm, if one truly wants to succeed then you will. Nonetheless, minorities are not the only ones who face struggles, I have plenty of white friends who cannot afford schooling (with or without Mom and Dads support).

 

[iproblem]

it is apparent to me that the predominantly white americans are tryin to brainwash our fellow unsuspecting minority students who are still too naive and innocent to realize what's goin on with this uneven and chaotic society of evil conspiracies. the evil mastermind behind this grand scheme propagated both directly and indirected via the educational system to intentionally set the system in such a way taht our people will be unable to compete with the white folks on a level playing field. it's almost like fighting a battle with your hands tied behind your back. now imagine that. the american medical schools are smart enough to set quotas to allow minorities to enter the professional schools much more easily becuase they understand the situation of which the society needs us to provide those communities that rich white folks dare not to walk in within 20-mile radius. it saddens me to see posts given by a few people in this thread that don't even know they are in a constant state of denial. dont you realize you need us? so this whole minimal gpa serves almost like 10 meter hurdles for us to jump over, which is not really fair. in any case, enjoy your lavish lifestyle as it lasts bcs we are gonna rise up one day and put u in our shoes.

 

[hye345]

it is apparent to me that the predominantly white americans are tryin to brainwash our fellow unsuspecting minority students who are still too naive and innocent to realize what's goin on with this uneven and chaotic society of evil conspiracies. the evil mastermind behind this grand scheme propagated both directly and indirected via the educational system to intentionally set the system in such a way taht our people will be unable to compete with the white folks on a level playing field. it's almost like fighting a battle with your hands tied behind your back. now imagine that. the american medical schools are smart enough to set quotas to allow minorities to enter the professional schools much more easily becuase they understand the situation of which the society needs us to provide those communities that rich white folks dare not to walk in within 20-mile radius. it saddens me to see posts given by a few people in this thread that don't even know they are in a constant state of denial. dont you realize you need us? so this whole minimal gpa serves almost like 10 meter hurdles for us to jump over, which is not really fair. in any case, enjoy your lavish lifestyle as it lasts bcs we are gonna rise up one day and put u in our shoes.

I am also a minority, buddy (armenian). Don't stereotype people based on their feelings towards socioeconomic conditions.

I'll admit that I am not the best student (GPA is only around 3.2-3.3), but I have never it on race or wealth.

By the way, I am financially well-off; the only test prep I took for the SAT was the free practice test at collegeboard.com. Guess I broke all of your little rules about races and money, didn't I?

 

[KHE]

it is apparent to me that the predominantly white americans are tryin to brainwash our fellow unsuspecting minority students who are still too naive and innocent to realize what's goin on with this uneven and chaotic society of evil conspiracies. the evil mastermind behind this grand scheme propagated both directly and indirected via the educational system to intentionally set the system in such a way taht our people will be unable to compete with the white folks on a level playing field. it's almost like fighting a battle with your hands tied behind your back. now imagine that. the american medical schools are smart enough to set quotas to allow minorities to enter the professional schools much more easily becuase they understand the situation of which the society needs us to provide those communities that rich white folks dare not to walk in within 20-mile radius. it saddens me to see posts given by a few people in this thread that don't even know they are in a constant state of denial. dont you realize you need us? so this whole minimal gpa serves almost like 10 meter hurdles for us to jump over, which is not really fair. in any case, enjoy your lavish lifestyle as it lasts bcs we are gonna rise up one day and put u in our shoes.

If that's the way you feel, I would suggest you take advantage of those "quotas" that medical schools offer and head off to medical school.

 

[eyestrain]

i understand where you're coming from. having everything you've ever needed being provided by your parents. the only worry for you is which prep course to take to boost that less than extraordinary OAT score.

what i found most fascinating is that you people are still refusing to take responsibilities for your actions and inactions which have been widening the gap between the rich and poor. i urge all those being oppressed by THE MAN to stand up and fight!

Okay, for the last time: I DIDN'T GET ANY MONEY FROM MY PARENTS. They provided a home for me through high school, after that I was on my own. I didn't take any prep courses to boost my OAT. I worked and got student loans, just like you could. I figured I'd mention this for the 3rd or 4th time, hoping you might actually read it and understand it this time. Unfortunately, since it doesn't fit in your "rich, white kid" view of me, you'll probably keep ignoring the facts.

 

[Dr 330SeeEye OD]

Would I want a doctor to see me if I found out they had a 2.0GPA? Absolutely not!

But no, and I am stating the obvious here, nobody under a 2.0 (wherever you went to school) should even be considered for professional school. Getting a 2.0 at any school (Ivy League or small town Community College) doesn't show professionalism or a desire to succeed.

why would it matter at this point? a doctor is a doctor, and if he or she is smart enough to pass the state boards, does a 2.0 GPA even play an important factor at this point? i mean, look at what you're saying...in the end, the person goes home a doctor and will probably continue to do what he or she does best; even if you do not think it is so. now, if the person got his or her license revoked for doing something unethical, then i'd understand your comment. please.

 

[eyestrain]

why would it matter at this point? a doctor is a doctor, and if he or she is smart enough to pass the state boards, does a 2.0 GPA even play an important factor at this point? i mean, look at what you're saying...in the end, the person goes home a doctor and will probably continue to do what he or she does best; even if you do not think it is so. now, if the person got his or her license revoked for doing something unethical, then i'd understand your comment. please.

The argument here is about undergrad GPAs and how 2.0s shouldn't even be getting into optometry school, not people that are already in optometry school getting bad grades.

 

[hfpepperbean47]

why would it matter at this point? a doctor is a doctor, and if he or she is smart enough to pass the state boards, does a 2.0 GPA even play an important factor at this point? i mean, look at what you're saying...in the end, the person goes home a doctor and will probably continue to do what he or she does best; even if you do not think it is so. now, if the person got his or her license revoked for doing something unethical, then i'd understand your comment. please.

I would try a little harder not to glorify the "a doctor is a doctor is a doctor is a doctor" statement because its not true. Take this scenario, going away from optometry a bit. You have an ailment that has left you bed ridden for some time and have no clue what it is. You are given two pieces of paper with some statistics written on them, everything is nearly identical between the two "docs" that wish to see you. It said they both passed the boards...great, of course they did or they would be waiting to see you with the white lab coat with MD stitched after their last name. But you see only one big difference between Doctor A and Doctor B, even their schools and majors are the same. Doctor A had a cumulative undergraduate GPA of 3.8...pretty impressive no matter where you go to school. Doctor B had a cumulative GPA of 2.8 and also passed his boards.

You cannot tell me that if you knew this difference between Doctor A and Doctor B that an undergraduate GPA wouldn't mean a thing. That would be a bold-faced lie. I think you, as well as the majority of people, would trust Doctor A before Doctor B (assuming, in fact, that you knew neither of the aforementioned Docs).

So you pass the boards. Great. But a Doctor is NOT a doctor is NOT a doctor is NOT a doctor. Would you trust a Doc more if they achieved the highest score possible on the board exam or if they barely passed?

I heard a wise man once say "All Doctors are NOT created equal"

 

[hfpepperbean47]

Your argument makes no sense. Sorry.

 

[iproblem]

first of all, i would like to address a couple of things to some of the misinformed individuals in the thread because they are clearly living in a fantasy world.

mr. hye345, Armenians are NOT considered minority in america. please get your facts straight and dont be coming up to me claiming you are one because i will laugh at your face. you understand? if you don't believe me check your skin color i believe it's not dark or brown or any of the darker shades. if you cant tell what color your skin because you are colorblind (which i'm not surprised) then ask the nearest person to tell you. also, being rich does help you to get better grades. when's the last time you see a starvin rich white person? check this following axiom: starving ≠ rich white person. there are countless statistics that support this irrefutable statement. please dont bother to argue, your effort will be futile.


..and mr. hfpepperbean47, please put down that bong in your hand and read this carefully. a person gpa does not determine a dcotors quality of service nor his effectiveness in treating patients. the gpa only tells you what happened in the past and it does not conclude anything about how good anyone is. so please don't assert your fragrant, and malicious lies in order to further your cause because you will not succeed in putting us down. we are determined and we fight hard. our brothers are trying to get the proper education we need to be part of this society. evidently some people here think hes too good for us because he's got the money to get all that studying aids and pay for prep courses and all that good stuff. i guess it's no use to convey something to someone who's obviously too ideologically stubborn to accept new facts that they are not superior than anyone.

..eyestrain, the fact that you're white already gives u a headstart in the game. don't play dumb and pretend everything is okay. it's not and why dont you try to change that by not advocating for a gpa barrier?

 

[hye345]

first of all, i would like to address a couple of things to some of the misinformed individuals in the thread because they are clearly living in a fantasy world.

mr. hye345, Armenians are NOT considered minority in america. please get your facts straight and dont be coming up to me claiming you are one because i will laugh at your face. you understand? if you don't believe me check your skin color i believe it's not dark or brown or any of the darker shades. if you cant tell what color your skin because you are colorblind (which i'm not surprised) then ask the nearest person to tell you. also, being rich does help you to get better grades. when's the last time you see a starvin rich white person? check this following axiom: starving ≠ rich white person. there are countless statistics that support this irrefutable statement. please dont bother to argue, your effort will be futile.


..and mr. hfpepperbean47, please put down that bong in your hand and read this carefully. a person gpa does not determine a dcotors quality of service nor his effectiveness in treating patients. the gpa only tells you what happened in the past and it does not conclude anything about how good anyone is. so please don't assert your fragrant, and malicious lies in order to further your cause because you will not succeed in putting us down. we are determined and we fight hard. our brothers are trying to get the proper education we need to be part of this society. evidently some people here think hes too good for us because he's got the money to get all that studying aids and pay for prep courses and all that good stuff. i guess it's no use to convey something to someone who's obviously too ideologically stubborn to accept new facts that they are not superior than anyone.

..eyestrain, the fact that you're white already gives u a headstart in the game. don't play dumb and pretend everything is okay. it's not and why dont you try to change that by not advocating for a gpa barrier?

Dear Mr. iproblem:

About your notion that all white people are rich, and that money can buy good stats and knowledge: I'm not gonna go into statistics with you. I'll just leave you with this proverb:

You can lead a horse to Harvard, but you can't make him think.

With regards to a GPA barrier: schools use it (or should use it) for the same reason that banks use credit scores: the lack of one would create a "free buffet" situation.

Without a GPA barrier, almost anyone will be able to get in. Anyone can enter, and most will not make it and drop out. Such a system would create more problems than it will solve.

It doesn't matter what race you are, or how "nice" and "caring" you are: if you can't maintain at least a 2.5-3.0 GPA, you should not be placed in charge of someone's health, both for your sake and your future patients. (Iproblem, before you start your ranting, I am not talking about you specifically).

 

[hfpepperbean47]

Who is this "us" you continually talk about?

Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote very carefully, which I would guess you didn't since you thoroughly enjoy taking the smallest thing and making a huge deal out of it. Do you think was was refering to Doctor A as a "privileged white man" and Doctor B as a "repressed and underrepresented minority".

You have a serious inferiority complex and its rather annoying.

The "we" and "our brothers" talk makes you look inept, whiny, and sad.

Fragrant and Malicious lies...that gave me a little chuckle. Since when are lies fragrant?

My point was not to say that a GPA determines the worth of a doctor (and while you are reading this...skin color also does not determine the worth of the man). As I stated previously, I don't think you really comprehend my argument, and that's okay if you're a little slow and combative (the aforementioned inferiority complex), my point was this: a random Aunt Mary doesn't know race, doesn't know upbringing...all she knows about these two doctors is that they both passed the boards, went to the same schools, and had vastly different GPAs. You ask her which Doctor she will pick to see her...she'd pick the Doctor with the higher GPA if that is the only information given. Its called LOGIC. Maybe Doctor B is much better...you never know.

Its rather annoying of you to assume, from what you wrote, that I was putting down "your brothers" because of course I was refering to "them" the group with the lower GPA.

And chances are...I probably am too good for you

 

[eyestrain]

first of all, i would like to address a couple of things to some of the misinformed individuals in the thread because they are clearly living in a fantasy world.

mr. hye345, Armenians are NOT considered minority in america. please get your facts straight and dont be coming up to me claiming you are one because i will laugh at your face. you understand? if you don't believe me check your skin color i believe it's not dark or brown or any of the darker shades. if you cant tell what color your skin because you are colorblind (which i'm not surprised) then ask the nearest person to tell you. also, being rich does help you to get better grades. when's the last time you see a starvin rich white person? check this following axiom: starving ≠ rich white person. there are countless statistics that support this irrefutable statement. please dont bother to argue, your effort will be futile.


..and mr. hfpepperbean47, please put down that bong in your hand and read this carefully. a person gpa does not determine a dcotors quality of service nor his effectiveness in treating patients. the gpa only tells you what happened in the past and it does not conclude anything about how good anyone is. so please don't assert your fragrant, and malicious lies in order to further your cause because you will not succeed in putting us down. we are determined and we fight hard. our brothers are trying to get the proper education we need to be part of this society. evidently some people here think hes too good for us because he's got the money to get all that studying aids and pay for prep courses and all that good stuff. i guess it's no use to convey something to someone who's obviously too ideologically stubborn to accept new facts that they are not superior than anyone.

..eyestrain, the fact that you're white already gives u a headstart in the game. don't play dumb and pretend everything is okay. it's not and why dont you try to change that by not advocating for a gpa barrier?

iproblem, do you fail to see the irony in your posts? You are the only one here making sweeping generalizations and using stereotypes to describe entire groups of people. Before you go throwing around that "racism" word again, realize that it works both ways.

 

[chinki]

while its true that you do need certain academic standard to succeed in optometry school.... I think GPA alone is too one-dimensional. You have to look at the whole picture as to whether the candidate can succeed in the field or not, rather than just the GPA. And that is exactly what the optometry school does and I am glad that they take other things into consideration. After all, is it fair to accept somebody who live off mommy and daddy's money/house/car and take an easy 4courses/term and ace everything....rather than accepting a student who has to work and volunteer and bus to school and maintain just an average GPA? Or a student who simply had horrible first year marks but managed to do well in the other three years (but after all the pre-reqs have been done?)

I'm totally agree with you. GPA is not everything. You can get a 4.0 in opt. school and can still be the worst optemetrist. While, those guys with 3.0 can be the best. It's totally up to each indiviual wheter or not they want to be optemetrist with passion or just being optemetrist bc of the salary . Other note, I'm taking my pre-req at a community college n there's nothing I can do about it. I pay for tuitions, books..etc. all by myself. In some semester, I get Bs in some classes but does that make me an unitelligent compare to As student? I don't think so.

 

[iproblem]

I'm totally agree with you. GPA is not everything. You can get a 4.0 in opt. school and can still be the worst optemetrist. While, those guys with 3.0 can be the best. It's totally up to each indiviual wheter or not they want to be optemetrist with passion or just being optemetrist bc of the salary . Other note, I'm taking my pre-req at a community college n there's nothing I can do about it. I pay for tuitions, books..etc. all by myself. In some semester, I get Bs in some classes but does that make me an unitelligent compare to As student? I don't think so.

that is exactly the point ive been trying to bring across to this audience of ill-tempered and misguided individuals. grades dont mean nothing. your action speaks louder than your words.

 

[hfpepperbean47]

So grades "don't mean nothing," meaning they mean something? You're confusing iproblem

 

[hfpepperbean47]

And since when are grades (i.e. GPA) expressed in words? Seems to me a GPA is represented by numbers, meaning actions speak louder than numbers? How loud are the actions from a person with a 3.0 as compared to a 2.9? Is this a log scale?

Of course GPA isn't the only factor, but that was not the original question.

 

[eyelectric]

your action speaks louder than your words.

I agree. The action of getting bad grades speaks volumes in comparison to making excuses to an admissions committee as to why you should be admitted to their school.

 

[ODduck]

that is exactly the point ive been trying to bring across to this audience of ill-tempered and misguided individuals. grades dont mean nothing. your action speaks louder than your words.

I agree with you that GPA is not everything, however, I don't agree that race has ANYTHING to do with it. Many of the brightest students with the best GPA's at my school are African American, Hispanic, Asian, etc...

BUT, they work their asses off to get the grades and don't use their racial identity as an excuse if they get bad or mediocre grades. That is where many people are disagreeing with you here, you are pretty much saying that minorities get worse grades because they are discriminated against, when in reality I see many, many examples everyday where minorities are succeeding immensely. Your race argument doesn't hold water.

 

[Dr 330SeeEye OD]

Doctor A had a cumulative undergraduate GPA of 3.8...pretty impressive no matter where you go to school. Doctor B had a cumulative GPA of 2.8 and also passed his boards.

...this is one thing...

Would you trust a Doc more if they achieved the highest score possible on the board exam or if they barely passed?

...and this is another, smart guy. who's to say a guy with a 2.8 GPA didn't get the higher score on his/her boards than a guy with a 3.8 GPA (besides you in your "scenario")? so, then, does GPA matter at this point, cool guy? would you rather trust a doctor with a 3.8 gpa in UG who barely passed his/her boards or someone with a 2.8 UG GPA and "achieved the highest score possible on the board exam?" i'm sure you'd love to answer that one, coolest guy in the world.

and you know what? i wouldn't care who i saw between the two. if they both knew exactly what to do for me, then that's all that matters. i'm not gonna sit there and pre-screen a doctor about his grades or exam scores. wow!

 

[luckyfool]

I agree with you that GPA is not everything, however, I don't agree that race has ANYTHING to do with it. Many of the brightest students with the best GPA's at my school are African American, Hispanic, Asian, etc...

Asians aren't considered minority in colleges, universities and research institutions...

 

[luckyfool]

sorry clicked twice..

 

[mtrlOATgal]

haha you are all so funny= wow I couldnt' read through the whole thread- got loads of time on your hands eh? well it must be fun i guess....


Firstly, I do understand eyestrain's concern over letting ppl into medical or optometry programs who do not demonstrate high academic abilities ONLY according to their CGPA. If someone continually gets C in classes throughout the years, then there better be a good explanation- thus why we have interviews.
ie- person has to go through chemotherapy- family has many problems-

then there is the issue that someone brought up that there are some persons who may be in an even "worse" situation but can still excel- now, please do not forgt we are unique individuals who have different adaptation capabilities and famly and network relations that affect how well they adapt- sorry i;m a psyc major so this is from my motivation class

it is important to consider gpa since this is what the schools base themselves in terms of allowing interviews- there is always the option of explaining why the grades do not reflect your true academic abillity in the application forms

OAT scores can also help you- eg. if you didnt do so well in bio in prereqs but you got a 360 on bio in OAT a few years later then it shows that you can deal with it

extracurricular and volunteer are great stuff- shows you can handle courseload and still have a life, have dedication and enthusiasm but that only goes so far- we can't all be professional figure skaters only with passion- needs relentless deliberate practice-

in the end, it is the COMBINATION of grades, oat, extracurricular, shadowing, research and life circumstarnces including personality that allows the school to evaluate who can commit to the profession and excel academically- dont want to take someone who will drop out right- looks bad for the school and wastes everyone's time

as for minimum gpa, i would like to ask- is there one for med school?
should we have a min? perhaps not- someone may have really not done well in undergrad but excelled in grad school after finally understanding how to study better?

we are humans composed of the interaction of our past experiences and current circumstances

 

[luckyfool]

...this is one thing...



...and this is another, smart guy. who's to say a guy with a 2.8 GPA didn't get the higher score on his/her boards than a guy with a 3.8 GPA (besides you in your "scenario")? so, then, does GPA matter at this point, cool guy? would you rather trust a doctor with a 3.8 gpa in UG who barely passed his/her boards or someone with a 2.8 UG GPA and "achieved the highest score possible on the board exam?" i'm sure you'd love to answer that one, coolest guy in the world.

and you know what? i wouldn't care who i saw between the two. if they both knew exactly what to do for me, then that's all that matters. i'm not gonna sit there and pre-screen a doctor about his grades or exam scores. wow!

I think he means to say that undergrad GPA predicts future board performance. It's careless to conclude anyone with a slightly lower than average GPA would under-perform compared to another person with an average acceptance GPA. But in a pool of many applicants, GPA is statistically reliable to predict board performance. It's the same idea for colleges to assess applicants' performance by their high school GPA and SAT scores. Usually people with higher GPA tend to have higher board passing rates...keep in mind that this is not always the case.

 

[hfpepperbean47]

...this is one thing...



...and this is another, smart guy. who's to say a guy with a 2.8 GPA didn't get the higher score on his/her boards than a guy with a 3.8 GPA (besides you in your "scenario")? so, then, does GPA matter at this point, cool guy? would you rather trust a doctor with a 3.8 gpa in UG who barely passed his/her boards or someone with a 2.8 UG GPA and "achieved the highest score possible on the board exam?" i'm sure you'd love to answer that one, coolest guy in the world.

and you know what? i wouldn't care who i saw between the two. if they both knew exactly what to do for me, then that's all that matters. i'm not gonna sit there and pre-screen a doctor about his grades or exam scores. wow!

You miss the point, but thanks for the love. I'm glad you think so highly of me. I was giving two extreme examples to make a point. Could a person with a 2.8GPA and 3.8GPA score the same? Yes. Could a person with a 2.8 score much higher than one with a 3.8? Absolutely. My examples were hypotheticals...look it up in the dictionary and maybe you will begin to understand my argument.

And I think you would care, if you were the person choosing between two doctors and you had information like that in front of you. I think you are trying to argue for argument's sake. Remember the word of the day: hypothetical. Its not a real situation, but people screen doctors all the time. Maybe not by GPA or board scores, but it happens. That's reality. Not all doctors are the same...don't kid yourself.

Luckyfool is right, with respect to what I am trying to say. Having a higher undergraduate GPA does not automatically mean success and higher board scores, but it does give a good indication of whether that person would be more apt to do better, on average. GPAs are not the be all and end all as there are so many other factors involved (differences in schools, for one) but they can be used to predict future success. Why do you think schools look at GPA...its is a measure of both past/present achievement and possible future success at any school, not just optometry.

 

[Dr 330SeeEye OD]

You miss the point, but thanks for the love. I'm glad you think so highly of me. I was giving two extreme examples to make a point. Could a person with a 2.8GPA and 3.8GPA score the same? Yes. Could a person with a 2.8 score much higher than one with a 3.8? Absolutely. My examples were hypotheticals...look it up in the dictionary and maybe you will begin to understand my argument.

And I think you would care, if you were the person choosing between two doctors and you had information like that in front of you. I think you are trying to argue for argument's sake. Remember the word of the day: hypothetical. Its not a real situation, but people screen doctors all the time. Maybe not by GPA or board scores, but it happens. That's reality. Not all doctors are the same...don't kid yourself.

Luckyfool is right, with respect to what I am trying to say. Having a higher undergraduate GPA does not automatically mean success and higher board scores, but it does give a good indication of whether that person would be more apt to do better, on average. GPAs are not the be all and end all as there are so many other factors involved (differences in schools, for one) but they can be used to predict future success. Why do you think schools look at GPA...its is a measure of both past/present achievement and possible future success at any school, not just optometry.

i respect your opinions; i truly do. but i first asked you if GPA would matter at that point (when the person is a doctor). and yet, you clearly don't tell me if it would. i knew your situation was hypothetical, and i turned it into another one. you said you wouldn't let a doctor who had a 2.0 GPA see you; fair for you to say-does GPA really matter if he or she was doing the job for you? still no answer, but you throw a hypothetical situation at me. i hope this thread ends here because it's getting pointless, but thanks for the discussion.

 

[iproblem]

i respect your opinions; i truly do. but i first asked you if GPA would matter at that point (when the person is a doctor). and yet, you clearly don't tell me if it would. i knew your situation was hypothetical, and i turned it into another one. you said you wouldn't let a doctor who had a 2.0 GPA see you; fair for you to say-does GPA really matter if he or she was doing the job for you? still no answer, but you throw a hypothetical situation at me. i hope this thread ends here because it's getting pointless, but thanks for the discussion.

the simple answer is GPA would not matter because of the fact that earning the board license supersedes any gpa, be it high or low. the whole point of this to maximize diversity and competition. setting gpa limit would therefore hinder many qualified minority students who maybe poor, but definitely showed great potential to be great doctors one day.