Could I still get into top school?

[altamont850]

My G.P.A. is high (3.5+) and I expect it to rise. During the academic year, I'm involved in 2 EC's (research and volunteer) and I hope to branch out and find other activities I enjoy. I can potentially build up all areas of my application but my main concern is that I have many W's (for legitimate reasons).

What course of action should I take if I want a fair shot at a top school?

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[sworzeh]

Why is everyone so preoccupied with top schools? A 3.5 is average; worry about getting into medical school at all.

 

[NeuralNetwork]

Why is everyone so preoccupied with top schools? A 3.5 is average; worry about getting into medical school at all.

Just playing devil's advocate, but there's nothing wrong with shooting for good schools. Everyone wants to be in a school that can give them more opportunities for the future.

OP, it would take a lot of back and forth to tell you exactly what you'd need to do in your particular situation to give yourself the best shot for schools. What you might want to do is go to MDapplicants.com, choose the "Accepted" option, choose a school you regard highly, and look through profiles that have details of what some people have done/what scores they have.

 

[UCUCUC]

get a 3.8+ gpa, 36+ mcat.

 

[altamont850]

Why is everyone so preoccupied with top schools? A 3.5 is average; worry about getting into medical school at all.

I didn't say I have a 3.5

I have a GPA greater than than 3.5 (actually around 3.7-3.85)

 

[flatearth22]

Why is everyone so preoccupied with top schools? A 3.5 is average; worry about getting into medical school at all.

Because top med school = easier path to lifestyle specialty = less stress + more time with family + more money + more prestige.

But yeah a 3.5 and two cookie cutter EC's does not scream top school. Make sure you get at least a 36 or so, OP, if that's all you're bringing to the party.

 

[music2doc]

My G.P.A. is high (3.5+) and I expect it to rise. During the academic year, I'm involved in 2 EC's (research and volunteer) and I hope to branch out and find other activities I enjoy. I can potentially build up all areas of my application but my main concern is that I have many W's (for legitimate reasons).

What course of action should I take if I want a fair shot at a top school?

Honestly, with your stats, be happy if you get in anywhere. "Top" schools are going to require someone quite a bit more "stellar" than you.

Also, don't get so stuck on "top" schools. Any US MD will get you where you want to go.

 

[altamont850]

Honestly, with your stats, be happy if you get in anywhere. "Top" schools are going to require someone quite a bit more "stellar" than you.

WTH does that mean?

 

[Keepitclassy]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=896731

With 7 W's, just worry about getting into med school. Tackle your depression and pick up your work ethic if you're getting burned out by intro courses.

 

[music2doc]

WTH does that mean?

Exactly what it sounds like it means. Go check MDApps and/or believe those of us who've gone before you. We have nothing to lose by your success or failure. The fact of the matter is that, from what you've told us, it doesn't really sound like you'd make it to a top 20 school and, honestly, you be doing well to make it into a top 40 school. That said, you should be able to get into A medical school if you shape up, keep your GPA high w/o having to withdraw all the time (schools do notice those trends and LOR writers may also point them out), and get some other interesting things going for you. Otherwise, you're basically going to be sitting in the "Should I even apply MD or just DO?" category in a few years.

 

[altamont850]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=896731

With 7 W's, just worry about getting into med school. Tackle your depression and pick up your work ethic if you're getting burned out by intro courses.

I didn't "burn out" due to academic strain and I have an excellent work ethic. My classes weren't difficult and my W's aren't indicative of poor work ethic. Why would MEDICALLY relevant withdraws be so detrimental?

 

[Keepitclassy]

I didn't "burn out" due to academic strain and I have an excellent work ethic. My classes weren't difficult and my W's aren't indicative of poor work ethic. Why would MEDICALLY relevant withdraws be so detrimental?

I'm sure it's a mix of the two, especially if your depression is self-diagnosed. FWIW there are people who are depressed who still manage to pull outstanding marks.

Excellent work ethic and 7 withdrawals usually don't go hand in hand, but if you say so...

 

[music2doc]

I didn't "burn out" due to academic strain and I have an excellent work ethic. My classes weren't difficult and my W's aren't indicative of poor work ethic. Why would MEDICALLY relevant withdraws be so detrimental?

As I understand from your previous thread, "medically" in this case refers to mental illness. Sadly, mental illnesses don't tend to get the same "by" other illnesses do. This is partially because of their extremely high recidivism rate (as well as a general stigma against mental illness). 7 withdrawals over multiple semesters is going to raise red flags for people (as it should, to be honest). You're going to have some major issues to tackle to get into any program, but if you can correct things now, then most schools should remain within reach.

 

[altamont850]

I'm sure it's a mix of the two, especially if your depression is self-diagnosed. FWIW there are people who are depressed who still manage to pull outstanding marks.

Excellent work ethic and 7 withdrawals usually don't go hand in hand, but if you say so...

IT ISN'T SELF-DIAGNOSED!

If I say I have a good work ethic, what point is there in you disparaging that?

BTW, have you even applied before?

 

[Keepitclassy]

IT ISN'T SELF-DIAGNOSED!

If I say I have a good work ethic, what point is there in you disparaging that?

BTW, have you even applied before?

No I have not, hence "Status: Pre-Medical". However, it's fairly common knowledge as to what needs to be accomplished in order to gain an acceptance letter to a top medical school, or any medical school for that matter. Unfortunately, 7 withdrawals is not one of these things.

Get straight A's or as close to it as you possibly can, kill the MCAT, perform research which hopefully culminates into a publication(s), Clinical and non-clinical volunteering, 50+ hours of shadowing, beautiful PS, outstanding LOR's, submit your AMCAS as soon as the doors open in the beginning of June, fast turnaround on secondaries, nail your interviews, and then wait for the decisions to trickle in.

/topic

 

[music2doc]

No I have not, hence "Status: Pre-Medical". However, it's fairly common knowledge as to what needs to be accomplished in order to gain an acceptance letter to a top medical school, or any medical school for that matter. Unfortunately, 7 withdrawals is not one of these things.

Get straight A's or as close to it as you possibly can, kill the MCAT, perform research which hopefully culminates into a publication(s), Clinical and non-clinical volunteering, 50+ hours of shadowing, beautiful PS, outstanding LOR's, submit your AMCAS as soon as the doors open in the beginning of June, fast turnaround on secondaries, nail your interviews, and then wait for the decisions to trickle in.

/topic

Pretty good cookie-cutter summary. However, this will still only get you a "typical" school. If OP is wanting at least top 40 or so, a "hook" will likely be needed. You need something that makes you shine. Something most students don't have (because, honestly, 60-90+% of applicants have each of things).

 

[Keepitclassy]

Pretty good cookie-cutter summary. However, this will still only get you a "typical" school. If OP is wanting at least top 40 or so, a "hook" will likely be needed. You need something that makes you shine. Something most students don't have (because, honestly, 60-90+% of applicants have each of things).

These "hooks" vary immensely from student to student and if he's looking for a yes/no answer the answer is most likely going to be a no unless he lands an n=1 extracurricular/MCAT.

Here are some n=1 EC ideas for you OP; train for the Olympics, find a cure for cancer/AIDS, start up a fortune 500, or serve in the military until you receive a Medal of Honor/Purple Heart...You get the idea...

 

[CardiologyJosh]

get a 3.8+ gpa, 36+ mcat.

Yeah, but people get into places like WashU and Penn with 35 mcat and 3.1 gpa; statistics paint a black and white picture. There is alot of color to be seen. What I am saying, is that statistics mean nothing for an individual.

 

[CardiologyJosh]

Honestly, with your stats, be happy if you get in anywhere. "Top" schools are going to require someone quite a bit more "stellar" than you.

Also, don't get so stuck on "top" schools. Any US MD will get you where you want to go.

False. You don't see people graduating from Texas Tech Univ and then going to UCSF or MGH or Mayo to do IM.

 

[CardiologyJosh]

These "hooks" vary immensely from student to student and if he's looking for a yes/no answer the answer is most likely going to be a no unless he lands an n=1 extracurricular/MCAT.

Here are some n=1 EC ideas for you OP; train for the Olympics, find a cure for cancer/AIDS, start up a fortune 500, or serve in the military until you receive a Medal of Honor/Purple Heart...You get the idea...

For a 'hook' would being self trained in a litany of foriegn languages fit the bill? i've taught myself russian, spanish, norwegian, german, some arabic and some hebrew; hoping to do italian and french and mandarin before i apply to med school.....

 

[MiracleforMD]

.

 

[CardiologyJosh]

No I have not, hence "Status: Pre-Medical". However, it's fairly common knowledge as to what needs to be accomplished in order to gain an acceptance letter to a top medical school, or any medical school for that matter. Unfortunately, 7 withdrawals is not one of these things.

Get straight A's or as close to it as you possibly can, kill the MCAT, perform research which hopefully culminates into a publication(s), Clinical and non-clinical volunteering, 50+ hours of shadowing, beautiful PS, outstanding LOR's, submit your AMCAS as soon as the doors open in the beginning of June, fast turnaround on secondaries, nail your interviews, and then wait for the decisions to trickle in.

/topic

50+ hours? How is 250-300? lol

 

[CardiologyJosh]

Dude this guy is right. I had a 32/3.5 and had about 3 dozen rejections. Re-prioritize.

Jesus, how many schools did u apply to

 

[911 Turbo]

Or you can do massive amounts of research for a hook.

Honestly, I don't see what's wrong with the cookie cutter approach. I mean, if you have

37+ MCAT
3.8-4.0 gpa
3+ years of research with multiple publications
volunteering at a hospital
shadowing
throw some random ass job in here

you will probably get interviews for top research heavy medical schools, right?

 

[CodeBlu]

This thread...

 

[Keepitclassy]

For a 'hook' would being self trained in a litany of foriegn languages fit the bill? i've taught myself russian, spanish, norwegian, german, some arabic and some hebrew; hoping to do italian and french and mandarin before i apply to med school.....

What you've done with those languages and to what extent you can actually speak plays a huge role.

50+ hours? How is 250-300? lol

50 hours is pretty much just a number you need to hit, 250-300 hours will obviously look better than 50 but it's contribution to your application is negligible. If you've already done the hours then kudos, but if you haven't done so and are planning on shadowing 250-300 hours I'd say your time is better spent just volunteering at the hospital.

 

[music2doc]

False. You don't see people graduating from Texas Tech Univ and then going to UCSF or MGH or Mayo to do IM.

First of all, those residencies aren't really necessary to get into IM successfully, are they?


Secondly, from the Texas Tech match list for 2012:


Brittany Albers Mayo School of Grad Med Educ ‐ FL Radiology‐Diagnostic
Neha Amin UC San Francisco ‐ CA Emergency Medicine
Bijas Benjamin Baylor University Medical Center ‐ Dallas, TX Internal Medicine
Vivian Ebrahim Cleveland Clinic Foundation ‐ OH Internal Medicine
Shruti Gohel Baylor University Medical Center ‐ Dallas, TX Obstetrics‐Gynecology
Miranda Gomez U Texas Southwestern Medical School ‐ Dallas, TX Obstetrics‐Gynecology
Mohit Joshipura U Texas Southwestern Medical School ‐ Dallas, TX Internal Medicine
Joseph Langston Oregon Health & Science University Orthopaedic Surgery
Kim Le University of Texas Southwestern ‐ Dallas, TX Ophthalmology
Tyler LeVick Duke University Medical Center ‐ NC Emergency Medicine


And there are plenty more that look like they could be pretty decent... (I simply got tired of copying and pasting)

 

[music2doc]

Or you can do massive amounts of research for a hook.

Honestly, I don't see what's wrong with the cookie cutter approach. I mean, if you have

37+ MCAT
3.8-4.0 gpa
3+ years of research with multiple publications
volunteering at a hospital
shadowing
throw some random ass job in here

you will probably get interviews for top research heavy medical schools, right?

Sure, but OP doesn't sound like s/he's on the way toward that at this point. A 37+ MCAT and multiple pubs is a pretty unlikely achievement (hence why it'd be such a big deal if done)

 

[sliceofbread136]

Some of you people are just sad. OP, focusing on getting into a top medical is not something that is going to make you happy about yourself like you think it will. Go live your life and do what makes you happy, and accomplishments will follow. Not the other way around.

 

[MedPR]

People with 4.0/40 don't get into top schools. If there's nothing impressive on your app besides GPA/MCAT, you aren't getting in to a top school.

 

[lobo.solo]

Alta, focus on preparing the best application you can and then worry about what schools you'd prefer to go. Is not like patients are gonna care that much where you went to school. Just saying....

 

[Finches]

Alta, focus on preparing the best application you can and then worry about what schools you'd prefer to go. Is not like patients are gonna care that much where you went to school. Just saying....

I'm always confused about this whole "patients don't care" dogma. Some patients care very much about where their doctors trained and studied.

 

[lobo.solo]

I'm always confused about this whole "patients don't care" dogma. Some patients care very much about where their doctors trained and studied.

In my limited experience ( I have been working in a hospital for 3.5 years), patients don't ask people about where they went to school. And even if they do, is more out of curiosity than anything else. Consider that I work in a county hospital, where the pt population is different than at a private hospital

 

[Finches]

In my limited experience ( I have been working in a hospital for 3.5 years), patients don't ask people about where they went to school. And even if they do, is more out of curiosity than anything else. Consider that I work in a county hospital, where the pt population is different than at a private hospital

It not only is dependent on patient population, but the department (type of services received) as well.

Also, for initial visits where patients have a pool of docs to choose from, many patients do care, a lot. I've volunteered at numerous hospitals in NYC, and can't count the number of times I've heard of patients googling their doctors (both for curiosity and selection).

"He went to Harvard, he must be good!" might be hard on the non-Harvard-bound students' ears, but it happens.

 

[An MD Hopeful]

In the place where I have volunteered for 4 years, which is a large comprehensive cancer center with great research facilities, I've seen doctors that went to Harvard (for undergrad and/or medical school) who have serious communication issues with patients and terrible bed-side manner. I'm not saying that all Harvard-trained doctors are bad with patients, and I'm sure that others may have seen differently, but I'm just describing what I've seen at this hospital. Other doctors come to mind who went to Ivy league schools and actually have lower-ranking positions than physicians from mid-tier schools. The difference between them? Character. Many doctors didn't go to outstanding medical schools but are intelligent and successful researchers, experts in their fields, and outstanding people who really know how to connect with their patients and treat their employees and colleagues with respect.

I do know that going to an Ivy league university would probably be helpful in finding top academic positions. But more so than that, character is very important. No one should forget that.

 

[Leofet]

Deleted.

 

[Finches]

In the place where I have volunteered for 4 years, which is a large comprehensive cancer center with great research facilities, I've seen doctors that went to Harvard (for undergrad and/or medical school) who have serious communication issues with patients and terrible bed-side manner. I'm not saying that all Harvard-trained doctors are bad with patients, and I'm sure that others may have seen differently, but I'm just describing what I've seen at this hospital. Other doctors come to mind who went to Ivy league schools and actually have lower-ranking positions than physicians from mid-tier schools. The difference between them? Character. Many doctors didn't go to outstanding medical schools but are intelligent and successful researchers, experts in their fields, and outstanding people who really know how to connect with their patients and treat their employees and colleagues with respect.

I do know that going to an Ivy league university would probably be helpful in finding top academic positions. But more so than that, character is very important. No one should forget that.

I agree. I've seen physicians from low or mid tier schools who also have serious communication errors, and the lack of prestige just ends up being a double whammy. Most of my mentors were top 10 grads with amazing bedside manner and awesome personalities, so I guess they got the best of both.

 

[Whiskeypunch]

Your academic record might be good enough for a D.O. school, not Harvard (assuming you don't have some other hook going for you like your depression was triggered by memories of your family from Africa being slaughtered before you escaped to America to start your new life). With all those W's you've got a hard road ahead of you.

Depression is usually a red flag, medical education tends to trigger that in healthy people. Preexisting depression is just asking for a jumper.

Also to the guy that linked the match list, that Mayo isn't the Mayo you think it is. Not even in the same universe.

 

[drizzt3117]

None of those places were UCSF or mayo in IM (although idk why the guy said mayo, it's not a top tier IM program). Certainly no tier 1a IM matches.

First of all, those residencies aren't really necessary to get into IM successfully, are they?


Secondly, from the Texas Tech match list for 2012:


Brittany Albers Mayo School of Grad Med Educ ‐ FL Radiology‐Diagnostic
Neha Amin UC San Francisco ‐ CA Emergency Medicine
Bijas Benjamin Baylor University Medical Center ‐ Dallas, TX Internal Medicine
Vivian Ebrahim Cleveland Clinic Foundation ‐ OH Internal Medicine
Shruti Gohel Baylor University Medical Center ‐ Dallas, TX Obstetrics‐Gynecology
Miranda Gomez U Texas Southwestern Medical School ‐ Dallas, TX Obstetrics‐Gynecology
Mohit Joshipura U Texas Southwestern Medical School ‐ Dallas, TX Internal Medicine
Joseph Langston Oregon Health & Science University Orthopaedic Surgery
Kim Le University of Texas Southwestern ‐ Dallas, TX Ophthalmology
Tyler LeVick Duke University Medical Center ‐ NC Emergency Medicine


And there are plenty more that look like they could be pretty decent... (I simply got tired of copying and pasting)

 

[Gut Shot]

False. You don't see people graduating from Texas Tech Univ and then going to UCSF or MGH or Mayo to do IM.

Just for giggles, let's have a look at the 2011 match list:

Radiology - Mass General
Anesthesiology - Wash U (x2)
OB/GYN - Johns Hopkins
Ophthalmology - Mayo (with prelim IM year at Mayo)
Neurosurgery - Wash U
ENT - Yale

Not too shabby for a regional public school, in the middle of nowhere, with a strong lean towards primary care.

 

[emorydeac]

Because top med school = easier path to lifestyle specialty = less stress + more time with family + more money + more prestige.

This is as far from the truth as can be. Top medicals schools can mean a more prestigious residency or not. I have a colleague who went to medical school at University of South Alabama (undergrad at UAB) and did his orthopedic residency at Mayo (ranked in the top 3 residencies for ortho). I have another friend who is an attending in Endocrinology at Harvard and he is far from rich. I hate to burst your bubble, but currently, the "average" top earning physician is generally a specialty surgeon who works long hours (>60 hours per week with little family time) and has questionable indications for surgery. Seems "unfair" but it is the reality of the current state of medicine. Being the brightest and the best most definitely does NOT translate into more money.

Concerning stress, unless you go into a specialty such as derm, rheum, endocin etc you will have more than your fair share of stress. I do not know of a single surgeon who does not have a significant amount of stress. Sorry for the rant, but needed to set the record straight.

 

[Gut Shot]

Because top med school = easier path to lifestyle specialty = less stress + more time with family + more money + more prestige.

This is as far from the truth as can be. Top medicals schools can mean a more prestigious residency or not. I have a colleague who went to medical school at University of South Alabama (undergrad at UAB) and did his orthopedic residency at Mayo (ranked in the top 3 residencies for ortho). I have another friend who is an attending in Endocrinology at Harvard and he is far from rich. I hate to burst your bubble, but currently, the "average" top earning physician is generally a specialty surgeon who works long hours (>60 hours per week with little family time) and has questionable indications for surgery. Seems "unfair" but it is the reality of the current state of medicine. Being the brightest and the best most definitely does NOT translate into more money.

Concerning stress, unless you go into a specialty such as derm, rheum, endocin etc you will have more than your fair share of stress. I do not know of a single surgeon who does not have a significant amount of stress. Sorry for the rant, but needed to set the record straight.

If there is one thing I recall from my time at an institution with a top medical school, it's how the students were always talking about their easier path to lifestyle specialties.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Because top med school = easier path to lifestyle specialty = less stress + more time with family + more money + more prestige.

But yeah a 3.5 and two cookie cutter EC's does not scream top school. Make sure you get at least a 36 or so, OP, if that's all you're bringing to the party.

This is extremely simplified and wrong if you ask me. Going to harvard does not guarantee you a spot in a lifestyle specialty. You still need to preform well in third year and on boards. Does the name give you a boost? Yes. Does it make up for being a ****ty medical student? No...

 

[Fortress]

This thread is pretty much pointless until OP at least takes MCAT; 3.7 GPA by itself is really nothing special for any medical school.

 

[semicharmed]

get a 3.8+ gpa, 36+ mcat.

I would pretty much agree with this. You can get into "top" (whatever that means-I'll equate it with "high matriculation score averages") places with lower scores but-as my definition might suggest-high scores=better chance at places with high score averages. As score averages at the top 10 USNWR approach a ~37 average MCAT, it's good to stay in this range if you can. Matriculates at this institutions with a sub-3.7 GPA, IMO, are rare unless you went to a school known for grade deflation.

I always think of admissions as micro-pools looking for certain "types" of applicants. The theme of your application is going to influence how they consider you. If you are heavy in the humanities (history, phil major; honors thesis/humanities papers) or community service (lots of hours and organizations) or research (lots of time in lab, nat science major, pubs) you will be looked at differently in each case. IMO, because of the nature of medicine, there are many more science-themed applications. When you are competing against other science majors, you tend to run up against individuals with very high test scores.

Long answer short, if you are shooting to fill the "hardcore science major" niche, I would say you would need higher numbers to compete against people in this pool. Another theme, numbers may be comparatively lower and you might be more successful. This might be a controversial statement though .

Good luck and don't worry about prestige too much. When you apply/interview, you'll experience a few schools that you feel most at home in, and I bet you it's not the ones you initially thought you'd like.

 

[CardiologyJosh]

I would pretty much agree with this. You can get into "top" (whatever that means-I'll equate it with "high matriculation score averages") places with lower scores but-as my definition might suggest-high scores=better chance at places with high score averages. As score averages at the top 10 USNWR approach a ~37 average MCAT, it's good to stay in this range if you can. Matriculates at this institutions with a sub-3.7 GPA, IMO, are rare unless you went to a school known for grade deflation.

I always think of admissions as micro-pools looking for certain "types" of applicants. The theme of your application is going to influence how they consider you. If you are heavy in the humanities (history, phil major; honors thesis/humanities papers) or community service (lots of hours and organizations) or research (lots of time in lab, nat science major, pubs) you will be looked at differently in each case. IMO, because of the nature of medicine, there are many more science-themed applications. When you are competing against other science majors, you tend to run up against individuals with very high test scores.

Long answer short, if you are shooting to fill the "hardcore science major" niche, I would say you would need higher numbers to compete against people in this pool. Another theme, numbers may be comparatively lower and you might be more successful. This might be a controversial statement though .

Good luck and don't worry about prestige too much. When you apply/interview, you'll experience a few schools that you feel most at home in, and I bet you it's not the ones you initially thought you'd like.

You would you say this rule applies for non-trads doing postbacc/smp/masters, who were also hard science background in undergrad?

 

[semicharmed]

Or you can do massive amounts of research for a hook.

Honestly, I don't see what's wrong with the cookie cutter approach. I mean, if you have

37+ MCAT
3.8-4.0 gpa
3+ years of research with multiple publications
volunteering at a hospital
shadowing
throw some random ass job in here

you will probably get interviews for top research heavy medical schools, right?

Yes. In my interview experience, ~80% of the applicants fit this description (you can check out the mdapps site, select a school and look at the "accepted students" to back this up with stats. Keep in mind that this is the internet though, haha, and people lie).

Good stats don't equal acceptance. Different schools look for different things-at Columbia, everyone in my interview room had some kind of weird past experience (literally...everyone...the dean made us talk in front of the group regarding an experience he had handpicked for each of us that he thought was interesting). Penn and hopkins students were incredibly social and friendly, and there was a certain radiance that people had done some extraordinary (meant literally) things. WashU people....kept talking about publications and numbers (which was offputting for me.. although they were very nice and I did unintentionally pick an interview with a lot of MD/PhDs who seem to disproportionately be concerned with these 2 topics)

Just be yourself. Submit an application that literally could not be more "you." If you personify yourself on paper to the best of your ability, there will be no regrets when you submit because schools will (theoretically) "know" who you are and if you will be a good fit. The schools that rejected me thought I wasn't a good fit, and I appreciate that. The schools that accepted me made me feel like my personality belonged.

 

[semicharmed]

You would you say this rule applies for non-trads doing postbacc/smp/masters, who were also hard science background in undergrad?

Good point-I introduced these "themes" just as a concept, not exhausting all of them. It's hard not to notice at these interviews/accepted student fb groups certain set proportions at most of the institutions (i.e. 3-4 phil majors, lots of research students, 3-5 TFA'ers, the token Americorporals, several late 20-somethings, etc). I think that non-trads are another theme that the school wants to make sure they tap into. Like everything with admissions, however, you are held to a certain standard depending on what pool they place you in.

I can't tell you if non-trads with post-bacs are held to different standards. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that non-trads with post-bacs are probably, somewhere down the line, compared with other non-trads with post-bacs because it doesn't seem especially fair (or even logistically possible) to compare these individuals to the juniors still in undergrad.

We have a bunch of post-bacs in my class, so I think it looks great to show perseverance and improve your GPA. I think schools look at these programs very highly. It's all in how you spin it-just make sure in your app that you make everything very comprehensible. The admissions committee should understand your theme in 1-2 sentences after they browse your application: "X is interested and well-equipped for medicine because of ___, ___, __ and all of his experiences tie together to support this theme."

 

[zherussianbear]

Why is everyone so preoccupied with top schools? A 3.5 is average; worry about getting into medical school at all.

Indeed. Top schools are good for getting into high profile research careers. You will live just as happily after graduating from a cheaper, state school with good clinical opportunities.

Freshman year through Junior year of college, people think they need to get into the best school ever; around mid-Senior year, some of the most qualified people aren't hearing back from where they wanted, and at the end, you're just exhausted and happy if you got in anywhere. Pride and expectations don't help you deal with any of the disappointments that undoubtedly lie ahead.

If you want to be a doctor, get into a medical school, and study hard.

 

[Pattycake25]

First of all, those residencies aren't really necessary to get into IM successfully, are they?


Secondly, from the Texas Tech match list for 2012:


Brittany Albers Mayo School of Grad Med Educ ‐ FL Radiology‐Diagnostic
Neha Amin UC San Francisco ‐ CA Emergency Medicine
Bijas Benjamin Baylor University Medical Center ‐ Dallas, TX Internal Medicine
Vivian Ebrahim Cleveland Clinic Foundation ‐ OH Internal Medicine
Shruti Gohel Baylor University Medical Center ‐ Dallas, TX Obstetrics‐Gynecology
Miranda Gomez U Texas Southwestern Medical School ‐ Dallas, TX Obstetrics‐Gynecology
Mohit Joshipura U Texas Southwestern Medical School ‐ Dallas, TX Internal Medicine
Joseph Langston Oregon Health & Science University Orthopaedic Surgery
Kim Le University of Texas Southwestern ‐ Dallas, TX Ophthalmology
Tyler LeVick Duke University Medical Center ‐ NC Emergency Medicine


And there are plenty more that look like they could be pretty decent... (I simply got tired of copying and pasting)

Psh, Mayo radio is kiddie stuff. =P