Considering taking the MCAT again?

[DazedandConfused]

Long time lurker but never posted. I am an applicant in this year's cycle, with a 33 MCAT and a 3.85 GPA from a decent state school. I applied to 18 schools, (the list is below). I received 3 interview invites and was waitlisted at all three schools. At this point, I am considering what I will need to do if not accepted into medical school this cycle. Is my MCAT score too low or do you think I applied to schools outside of my reach? Or, is there perhaps something else missing in my application that is severely hurting me? Additionally, as a reapplicant. am I expected to have a higher MCAT than others? I am thinking that most schools I apply to next cycle, even if for the first time, will wonder why they should let me in if I didn't get anywhere the first time and a higher MCAT may show that.

Thank You for your advice!

George Washington
boston
temple
pitt
tufts
Cornell
rush
SUNY Downstate
NYU
Jeff
SUNY Upstate
UMD
Mount Sinai
Wake Forest
Northwestern
Drexel
Georgetown
Penn State

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[Ace-Co-A]

List looks ok. What is your state of residence?

 

[Wasted Energy]

A 33 is above the 90th percentile of test takers in 2012, don't retake it. There must be something else. What is your state of residence?

EDIT: ^ beat me to it.

 

[mrh125]

I wouldn't mess with your mcat. You got above a 30 and that is a great score and you're above the national average of accepted students (32). Don't play with fire because each mcat is different (I took the mcat once in january and got a 29 and in march and the material was totally different. the march once is easier but there is luck involved bc each mcat is a totally diff beast depending on the topics emphasized) and if you've already studied most of the material chances are that you may have already plateaued. why risk getting a course score or less than the desired 3 point improvement. If you can get a 36 or more (a range where 3-5 mistakes each section may make it impossible).

 

[Catalystik]

Long time lurker but never posted. I am an applicant in this year's cycle, with a 33 MCAT and a 3.85 GPA from a decent state school. I applied to 18 schools, (the list is below). I received 3 interview invites and was waitlisted at all three schools. At this point, I am considering what I will need to do if not accepted into medical school this cycle. Is my MCAT score too low or do you think I applied to schools outside of my reach? Or, is there perhaps something else missing in my application that is severely hurting me? Additionally, as a reapplicant. am I expected to have a higher MCAT than others? I am thinking that most schools I apply to next cycle, even if for the first time, will wonder why they should let me in if I didn't get anywhere the first time and a higher MCAT may show that.

Thank You for your advice!

George Washington
boston
temple
pitt
tufts
Cornell
rush
SUNY Downstate
NYU
Jeff
SUNY Upstate
UMD
Mount Sinai
Wake Forest
Northwestern
Drexel
Georgetown
Penn State

If you aren't accepted on this round, it's not because of your MCAT score. As to retaking: A three point MCAT increase to a 36 brings you from an a 82% chance to an 88%chance of success. How is that worth the pain and suffering of a retake? And what if the score drops?

Instead, consider whether your activities are well-rounded and substantive, if your LORs might be faint-hearted, if your interview skills aren't optimal, if you applied late (meaning, Complete at all schools after 9/1), if you had legal issues to explain away, and if your essays are compelling and the Primary and Secondary essays are of equal quality.

 

[DazedandConfused]

List looks ok. What is your state of residence?

First, wow, 10 minutes since I made the thread and 4 reasonable responses. State of residence is DE.

Second, as for extra curriculars:

Several minority student organizations (general member in all)
Undergrad research for 2 years (though no papers/posters)
Shadowed 2 physicians (over 100 hours total)
Did some IT work at one of the offices I shadowed.
Volunteered internationally at an impoverished hospital
Recently began volunteering at a transition home

 

[Wasted Energy]

student organizations (general member in all)

URM or ORM?

 

[BlackBox]

Your volunteerism seems a bit weak and I think you should apply to a few more schools- even the new ones: commonwealth and Hofstra.

When were you complete? This cycle was a bit odd due to the influx of applications caused by the processing delay.

I keep thinking about your ECs. Do you have a great story? You may seem underwhelming to the ADCOMs due to vanilla ecs

 

[BlackBox]

URM or ORM?

I just really like your avatar:name combo. Haha

 

[Catalystik]

Second, as for extra curriculars:

Several minority student organizations (general member in all)
Undergrad research for 2 years (though no papers/posters)
Shadowed 2 physicians (over 100 hours total)
Did some IT work at one of the offices I shadowed.
Volunteered internationally at an impoverished hospital
Recently began volunteering at a transition home

Research and shadowing are well above average. Active US clinical experience where you interact with sick and injured people seems to be lacking. How many months did you volunteer at the international hospital and what were your duties?

 

[Wasted Energy]

OP, I think BlackBox & Catalystik have identified your problem. Everything else looks pretty solid except for you clinical volunteering. If that turns out to be up to par (and you just failed to mention some other volunteering experiences) then I would imagine your roadblock lies somewhere within the second paragraph of Catalystik's original post.

But hey, 3 WL =/= 3 rejections, so it may not matter anyway.

 

[BlackBox]

True. You're waitlisted, not rejected. So there's still a chance.

In the coming weeks, students will likely be solidifying their choices. This usually happens after financial aid packets are revealed. There seems to be this thought that if one holds multiple acceptances, and schools have this data right now, that schools will try to woo their top choices with money. Idk if that's true, but either way, people with 5 acceptances can only go to one school.

 

[DazedandConfused]

URM or ORM?

URM

Your volunteerism seems a bit weak and I think you should apply to a few more schools- even the new ones: commonwealth and Hofstra.

When were you complete? This cycle was a bit odd due to the influx of applications caused by the processing delay.

I keep thinking about your ECs. Do you have a great story? You may seem underwhelming to the ADCOMs due to vanilla ecs

Complete mid-August for all schools. About my ECs, I forgot to mention that I volunteered at a hospital here in the US, escorting patients and keeping the OR stocked with basic supplies. At the international hospital, I have a few amusing and strange stories, but my duties were to clean, direct patients, shadow, and sometimes "run the door" ie tell the not so sick people in the massive line outside to go home. Perhaps leadership positions/non-"vanilla" ECs is what I lack?

 

[Wasted Energy]

I'm really at a loss then. Just to recap: URM with 33/3.85 stats, 2 years of research, 100 hours of shadowing, some non-clinical volunteering, and not super-strong but present clinical volunteering, and the school list looks okay. I'm not sure what the issue is, but if you do have a significant problem, it almost certainly lies in the quoted paragraph below.

Instead, consider whether your activities are well-rounded and substantive, if your LORs might be faint-hearted, if your interview skills aren't optimal, if you applied late (meaning, Complete at all schools after 9/1), if you had legal issues to explain away, and if your essays are compelling and the Primary and Secondary essays are of equal quality.

 

[BlackBox]

URM


Complete mid-August for all schools. About my ECs, I forgot to mention that I volunteered at a hospital here in the US, escorting patients and keeping the OR stocked with basic supplies. At the international hospital, I have a few amusing and strange stories, but my duties were to clean, direct patients, shadow, and sometimes "run the door" ie tell the not so sick people in the massive line outside to go home. Perhaps leadership positions/non-"vanilla" ECs is what I lack?

Oh, sorry. I was referring to an interesting life story. Did you struggle with a disability? Financial hardship? Are you a success story (we all are, right?!). What's the theme of your application? How will you make a class better?
This last point is VERY important. Adcoms want to know how you'll improve their class.

URMs are highly sought after. You have a 33 mcat with a 3.85 gpa. Your odds of getting into med school (ignoring all other intangibles) are amazingly high. Look at that AMCAS table. These scores are great scores no matter if you were Asian/white/black/brown/or a zebra fish. Couple this with my next point:

I'm also thinking that you did get interviews, so maybe your interviewing skills could use some polishing. Have you gone through a few mock interviews with professionals at your school? Could identify some flaws.

 

[DazedandConfused]

I should clarify, the student organizations I am in are for URM, but I myself am an ORM. Does the fact that I only got 3/18 interviews perhaps indicate that it is the essays that are weakening my application? Looking back at the essays that I wrote, I mostly talked about how I would continue my research and volunteer at their outreach programs at each school (which I enjoy since I have the experience to back it up). Is that too weak a concept of "adding to the class" as BlackBox stated? I didn't go through many mock interviews, mostly practiced with dad/brother (doctors) and friends.

 

[Wasted Energy]

I should clarify, the student organizations I am in are for URM, but I myself am an ORM.

Ah, now things make more sense. As far as your essays go, I wouldn't think anybody could tell you much without seeing the actual essays/prompts themselves. Either way, you should just be focusing on strengthening the qualitative aspects of you application if anything at this point, assuming you have to reapply (which is not a safe assumption to make just yet btw). Forget about retaking the MCAT.

 

[HinduHammer]

If you aren't accepted on this round, it's not because of your MCAT score. As to retaking: A three point MCAT increase to a 36 brings you from an a 82% chance to an 88%chance of success. How is that worth the pain and suffering of a retake? And what if the score drops?

Instead, consider whether your activities are well-rounded and substantive, if your LORs might be faint-hearted, if your interview skills aren't optimal, if you applied late (meaning, Complete at all schools after 9/1), if you had legal issues to explain away, and if your essays are compelling and the Primary and Secondary essays are of equal quality.

Not to thread hijack, but would anyone be able to answer that the "Complete after 9/1" being late - does that include primary amcas verified and secondary essays to the school also verified? Or does it just mean that the primary amcas was complete by 9/1? I am asking because I am debating whether to push back my MCAT from June to July, and as of right now I am a very marginal candidate numbers-wise.

Thanks. OP: good luck.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Ah, now things make more sense. As far as your essays go, I wouldn't think anybody could tell you much without seeing the actual essays/prompts themselves. Either way, you should just be focusing on strengthening the qualitative aspects of you application if anything at this point, assuming you have to reapply (which is not a safe assumption to make just yet btw). Forget about retaking the MCAT.

True on the essays, but for anonymity's sake, I'll take them to someone in person. On strengthening my application qualitatively, do you think some other volunteer work would be beneficial? Clinical or non-clinical? Research? I'm asking because if it comes time to reapply in June, I remember the applications asking what I would be doing from fall 2014 to spring 2015 and I would like to have an answer before then.

Also, is my score that much less competitive as an ORM ?

 

[Catalystik]

Not to thread hijack, but would anyone be able to answer that the "Complete after 9/1" being late - does that include primary amcas verified and secondary essays to the school also verified? Or does it just mean that the primary amcas was complete by 9/1?

There is no official definition of a "late" application, so opinions will vary. My observation is that applications that are Complete before 9/1, meaning all Secondaries and supplemental submissions received by a med school, are not at a disadvantage. After 9/1, there is a small disadvantage (degree varies with how competitive one's application is, how competitive one's school list might be, and whether a given school has a small applicant base) which worsens slowly at first then gets worse and worse, until it becomes a devastating negative by November. YMMV.

 

[chenzt]

Also, is my score that much less competitive as an ORM ?

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

 

[Wasted Energy]

True on the essays, but for anonymity's sake, I'll take them to someone in person. On strengthening my application qualitatively, do you think some other volunteer work would be beneficial? Clinical or non-clinical? Research? I'm asking because if it comes time to reapply in June, I remember the applications asking what I would be doing from fall 2014 to spring 2015 and I would like to have an answer before then.

Also, is my score that much less competitive as an ORM ?

Yeah, just run your essays by your university's writing center or whatever resources that are available to you.

As far as what you should do in terms of strengthening your application, that is up to you. Do something you enjoy. If you like research, maybe try to get something tangible out of it in the coming year (poster presentation, maybe try to get your name on a paper). If you have some kind of non-medical volunteering cause that you like, devote your time to that. If you are lacking in any one area, it's your clinical volunteering so maybe get some hours in at a hospital (patient transport, etc.) if possible.

In regards to the difference in chances for ORM vs. URM, I would normally say it's substantial (take a look at the link posted by chenzt), but in your case (33/3.85) the difference isn't all that significant.

 

[lmn]

Your stats are good and your EC's are fairly solid (not earth shattering, but should be enough for at least a few interviews), your cycle isn't over yet, so I wouldn't give up hope, but my guess would be that if you end up reapplying, really work to strengthen your Personal Statement and Secondary Essays. You most likely just really need to better tell your story to get more schools interested, as well as working on your interview skills to land a spot.

I don't think your medical experiences are lacking, I had much less, and although I had to explain why in my interviews, I was able to secure a substantial amount of interview invites with a fairly similar LizzyM score as you. You've done the work, just work on your presentation, best of luck.

 

[drdoom12]

There is no official definition of a "late" application, so opinions will vary. My observation is that applications that are Complete before 9/1, meaning all Secondaries and supplemental submissions received by a med school, are not at a disadvantage. After 9/1, there is a small disadvantage (degree varies with how competitive one's application is, how competitive one's school list might be, and whether a given school has a small applicant base) which worsens slowly at first then gets worse and worse, until it becomes a devastating negative by November. YMMV.

I am thinking about taking my MCAT July 12th along with applying this year. I'm non-trad, so I'd rather not wait an extra year. Plus, all of my prerequisites are fairly fresh in my mind. My question is related to the turnover rate for receiving secondaries once an MCAT score is verified. If one's application is verified prior to taking the MCAT, how long does it generally take to receive secondaries once the MCAT score has been released?

 

[Catalystik]

I am thinking about taking my MCAT July 12th along with applying this year. I'm non-trad, so I'd rather not wait an extra year. Plus, all of my prerequisites are fairly fresh in my mind. My question is related to the turnover rate for receiving secondaries once an MCAT score is verified. If one's application is verified prior to taking the MCAT, how long does it generally take to receive secondaries once the MCAT score has been released?

Some schools send them out immediately, before the MCAT score is known (as the fees are a great source of income), some send them out soon after you become Complete (days to weeks), and others screen the application before deciding if you have a good shot at their institution, so it can take weeks to months before you hear back. You can see when they'll arrive from checking last year's School-Specific Forum for that school's thread. You can start writing essays before that (and even now) as only maybe 5% of schools change their essay prompts from year-to-year, and many themes are similar among schools. The prompts are usually found toward the beginning of that same thread.

 

[drdoom12]

Some schools send them out immediately, before the MCAT score is known (as the fees are a great source of income), some send them out soon after you become Complete (days to weeks), and others screen the application before deciding if you have a good shot at their institution, so it can take weeks to months before you hear back. You can see when they'll arrive from checking last year's School-Specific Forum for that school's thread. You can start writing essays before that (and even now) as only maybe 5% of schools change their essay prompts from year-to-year, and many themes are similar among schools. The prompts are usually found toward the beginning of that same thread.

Thank you for the prompt reply! I will definitely check the school specific threads. Do you think there would be any disadvantage from taking the MCAT on July 12th compared with the earlier July date? Basically, I am looking to have as much study time for the MCAT where I have no obligations from my classes. I'm only part-time right now (Organic/Lab and Physics/Lab) with some shadowing/volunteering, but I feel as though those classes alone make it difficult to put in the required time each day for the MCAT (I'm following the SN2ed method).

 

[Catalystik]

Do you think there would be any disadvantage from taking the MCAT on July 12th compared with the earlier July date?

See post #20. Let's not further derail the thread.

 

[Goro]

goro's suggested list

George Washington
boston
temple
pitt
tufts
rush
SUNY Downstate
Jeff
SUNY Upstate
Mount Sinai
Wake Forest
Drexel
Georgetown
Penn State
Albany
NYMC
Rosy franklin
Hofstra
Any other new MD school