Considering LMHC path

[neurom]

Hello all, so for the past year I have been dead set on pursuing a PhD in clinical psych and becoming a psychologist. However, after further inspection into this path and taking my restrictions into account (geographic limitation, 3 kids, financial stress, age) it honestly looks like pursuing a masters degree and becoming a LMHC would be the better option for me. What drew me into clinical psych PhDs was that I wanted to work with severe mental illness, but as someone with a semi-severe mental illness who sees a LCSW who specializes in that area, I realize that they can probably work with severe mental illnesses as well.
My questions are:
1.) Is this a good option? I would be going to an in-state school, so the maximum amount I would pay for tuition (no scholarships accounted for) would be ~$26,000 in total for the program. Money is not my concern here because my partner plans to work extra during my time in school to help pay for stuff and help me save what money I do get to pay towards my loans.
2.) What is better - LMHC or LMFT? Or are there other options with this degree I am not considering that may be more of what I'm looking for? I want to practice an actual evidence based therapy (like CBT or DBT), not just 'counseling'.
3.) If I were to go straight from undergrad to grad school, I would graduate when I was 26 or 27, and then have to complete the 2 years of supervised hours after my masters (Florida). Are the supervised hours paid, or am I looking at more unpaid work? Do I need to get a second job?
4.) How difficult is it to get into these masters programs? I am looking at two schools at the moment - one enrolls around 15-16 students in their program/year, the other around 40-45. They both result in the same ability for licensure, but the one who accepts more students also allows for licensure in rehabilitation therapy, which at the moment I am not interested in. Is that something I should consider?

Thank you all for any help you can offer, and I'm sure I will have more questions.

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[R. Matey]

1. LPCs/LMHCs are a fine option though I would counsel anyone to do social work over an LPC/LMHC due to the better opportunity social workers enjoy. $26k isn't a bad amount for a counseling degree where you can expect to make ~$40k-$75k throughout your career. Usually you don't want your total student debt to exceed what you plan to make in a year.

2. Mental health counseling degrees (that lead to LMHCs/LPCs) will give you more training in working with mental health concerns at the individual level. LMFT stands for 'licensed marriage and family therapists', as you might expect, the training is more focused on couples/families. Given your stated goal of learning EBPs, LMHC would be the better choice, though you likely will need to supplement with post-degree training.

3. Post-degree supervised work at the master's level is paid work. Expect somewhere in the ball park of ~$40-$50k for these positions. Might be more in a PP.

4. Not very difficult provided you meet the basic requirements. Rehab counseling is a slightly different world than mental health counseling. There's at least one person patrolling the forums who is more of an expert in the area than I am so maybe they can comment, but these degrees prepare you to work in vocational rehabilitation positions in addition to general one-to-one counseling. Either would likely get you where you need to go.

 

[summerbabe]

2.) What is better - LMHC or LMFT? Or are there other options with this degree I am not considering that may be more of what I'm looking for? I want to practice an actual evidence based therapy (like CBT or DBT), not just 'counseling'.

I second the advice given above. I’ll add that the primary difference for MFT training is a focus on treating the system (nuclear family dysfunction, romantic couple communication difficulties, etc) rather than individual symptomology, which is the foundation for other degrees.

There is absolutely evidence based MFT training/approaches and programs but I also imagine there are folks out (and maybe even programs) that are largely winging it but that can be the case everywhere, including in clinical psychology.

And regarding flexibility, I would also advocate for the LCSW degree with supplemental training for things that go beyond any program’s basics and interest you.

As your career advances, being qualified (or seen as qualified) to do multiple things can really help with burnout. A marriage and family therapist is going to be seen as just that, somebody who does family and couples counseling.

Additionally, there are WAAAAAAY more social workers in administrative/supervisory roles than LPCs/MFTs so if you’re interested in working for an organization and potentially moving into management down the line, the LCSW degree will likely be favorable.

 

[neurom]

I second the advice given above. I’ll add that the primary difference for MFT training is a focus on treating the system (nuclear family dysfunction, romantic couple communication difficulties, etc) rather than individual symptomology, which is the foundation for other degrees.

There is absolutely evidence based MFT training/approaches and programs but I also imagine there are folks out (and maybe even programs) that are largely winging it but that can be the case everywhere, including in clinical psychology.

And regarding flexibility, I would also advocate for the LCSW degree with supplemental training for things that go beyond any program’s basics and interest you.

As your career advances, being qualified (or seen as qualified) to do multiple things can really help with burnout. A marriage and family therapist is going to be seen as just that, somebody who does family and couples counseling.

Additionally, there are WAAAAAAY more social workers in administrative/supervisory roles than LPCs/MFTs so if you’re interested in working for an organization and potentially moving into management down the line, the LCSW degree will likely be favorable.

What is the difference between LCSW and LMHC schooling? Do you learn similar things, or what is different if I may ask?
I definitely want something that is flexible, because I tend to get bored doing the same thing for too long. I like the idea of moving into management down the line, and I also like the idea that you can work with a larger range of populations (at least this is what I've read online).

 

[summerbabe]

What is the difference between LCSW and LMHC schooling? Do you learn similar things, or what is different if I may ask?
I definitely want something that is flexible, because I tend to get bored doing the same thing for too long. I like the idea of moving into management down the line, and I also like the idea that you can work with a larger range of populations (at least this is what I've read online).

So I haven't attended these programs but any standard MSW curriculum should include courses on things like public policy and advocacy, whereas a mental health specific program will likely be more focused on things like counseling theories.

It would be Pageantry to identify a few programs in each field and do a detailed compare and contrast of the different curricula/plans of study and pay attention to required courses/tracks and things that are electives.

 

[R. Matey]

What is the difference between LCSW and LMHC schooling? Do you learn similar things, or what is different if I may ask?

Nearly all mental health counseling programs will include coursework on providing individual therapy. It is arguably the sole goal of the coursework is to prepare you to provide psychotherapy. There are family systems and group courses, but the primary emphasis is on the individual. You receive some training in psychopathology, case conceptualization, and basic psychotherapy skills among other coursework aimed at preparing you for independent practice.

Social work, by contrast, can prepare you to work as a therapist, but in social worker world, this is only one branch of social work. Others include case work, administration, policy, and advocacy. There are some programs that provide more specialized training in this area of social work, but it is my experience that the bulk of psychotherapy training for social workers happen in their practica placements and in their post-degree supervision (SWs out there, set me straight if I'm missing something). In this manner, MSW programs typically have some coursework in psychotherapy during their training, but the bulk of it is on broad social work training.

 

[neurom]

Nearly all mental health counseling programs will include coursework on providing individual therapy. It is arguably the sole goal of the coursework is to prepare you to provide psychotherapy. There are family systems and group courses, but the primary emphasis is on the individual. You receive some training in psychopathology, case conceptualization, and basic psychotherapy skills among other coursework aimed at preparing you for independent practice.

Social work, by contrast, can prepare you to work as a therapist, but in social worker world, this is only one branch of social work. Others include case work, administration, policy, and advocacy. There are some programs that provide more specialized training in this area of social work, but it is my experience that the bulk of psychotherapy training for social workers happen in their practica placements and in their post-degree supervision (SWs out there, set me straight if I'm missing something). In this manner, MSW programs typically have some coursework in psychotherapy during their training, but the bulk of it is on broad social work training.

Wow, this is great to know! Would you happen to know if social workers can typically work with severe mental illness, like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder? At this moment that is the kind of population I want to work with, or adolescents and children.

Are MSW programs competitive? I’m looking at two different programs right now, but it has no details on their acceptance rates. These two schools (USF and UCF) also offer their MSWs online part time, but I’m kind of wary of online degrees, so I’m not sure about this option.

 

[R. Matey]

Wow, this is great to know! Would you happen to know if social workers can typically work with severe mental illness, like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder? At this moment that is the kind of population I want to work with, or adolescents and children.

Are MSW programs competitive? I’m looking at two different programs right now, but it has no details on their acceptance rates. These two schools (USF and UCF) also offer their MSWs online part time, but I’m kind of wary of online degrees, so I’m not sure about this option.

1. Yes--I'd say that's a very common job outcome for SWs interested in psychotherapy. Many work with psychiatrists as a therapist in community or hospital clinics.

2. It widely depends on the program. You're wise to be wary of online programs as they don't typically provide high quality training experiences, but I do know they're becoming increasingly common at the master's level. If it were me or a member of my family, I'd advise looking around for a in-person state school program. Also, don't be mislead by fancy institution names since some institutions will sell their name to market an expensive online program where equally good training is likely available at a lesser known institution providing an in-person experience.

 

[neurom]

1. Yes--I'd say that's a very common job outcome for SWs interested in psychotherapy. Many work with psychiatrists as a therapist in community or hospital clinics.

2. It widely depends on the program. You're wise to be wary of online programs as they don't typically provide high quality training experiences, but I do know they're becoming increasingly common at the master's level. If it were me or a member of my family, I'd advise looking around for a in-person state school program. Also, don't be mislead by fancy institution names since some institutions will sell their name to market an expensive online program where equally good training is likely available at a lesser known institution providing an in-person experience.

Thank you! They offer both online and in person programs, but I was just wondering if I could save some commute time by going the online route. I honestly always opt for in person because online instruction is just difficult for me.
It’s good to know that many social workers will venture into that area of treatment. I also question - would it be wise to change my major and get my bachelors of social work instead? This allows for advanced standing in many programs and skipping up to a year extra of classes, so I’d be finishing in 3 semesters instead of 5-6.

 

[R. Matey]

I also question - would it be wise to change my major and get my bachelors of social work instead? This allows for advanced standing in many programs and skipping up to a year extra of classes, so I’d be finishing in 3 semesters instead of 5-6.

That's entirely up to you. It will likely be faster as you say, but obviously, you'd want to be sure this is the path that you want.

 

[neurom]

That's entirely up to you. It will likely be faster as you say, but obviously, you'd want to be sure this is the path that you want.

That's what I'm trying to determine. Do you know of any other job paths that LCSW's can do? I know stuff like working in hospital settings or doing case work, but I'm not really sure of anything else. Or are there any sites that have a complete list of job paths? Thank you if you have any info, I understand if you don't though!

 

[MAClinician]

Accredited programs by degree and specialization

Areas of practice in social work

 

[psychma]

As an LPCC (counselor) I got broad training in assessment and psychopathology/psychophysiology as well as therapy. My practice is largely doing assessments which is in my scope in the state I’m in.

 

[R. Matey]

As an LPCC (counselor) I got broad training in assessment and psychopathology/psychophysiology as well as therapy. My practice is largely doing assessments which is in my scope in the state I’m in.

What kind of assessments are you doing?

 

[psychma]

Autism in adults, which is an area I’m trained in.

 

[R. Matey]

Autism in adults, which is an area I’m trained in.

That's not much more than a clinical interview and records review, yeah?

Oh, never mind. Just saw your MIGDAS comment.

 

[psychma]

That's not much more than a clinical interview and records review, yeah?

Oh, never mind. Just saw your MIGDAS comment.

I use the RIAS-2, SRS-2 and in some cases the ABAS-3.

 

[R. Matey]

I use the RIAS-2, SRS-2 and in some cases the ABAS-3.

It sounds like you're using them appropriately so kuddos to you. The more hands we have differentiating autism, the better, especially in an era where it has emerged as a diagnosis de jour. Relevant to the thread though, a social worker could receive the same post-degree training as you and do the same job. Most counseling programs do not prepare people for this work.

 

[chicandtoughness]

Do you know of any other job paths that LCSW's can do?

Can I interest any of you in the hidden gem called utilization review?

Not for you if you want to stay in patient-facing practice, but for the person who is interested in mental health, policy, clinical conceptualization, and wants to collaborate with providers instead of patients, UR has been a goldmine. I get paid $140k to do 6-7 hours of work per day.

 

[neurom]

Can I interest any of you in the hidden gem called utilization review?

Not for you if you want to stay in patient-facing practice, but for the person who is interested in mental health, policy, clinical conceptualization, and wants to collaborate with providers instead of patients, UR has been a goldmine. I get paid $140k to do 6-7 hours of work per day.

I would like to know more about this! I am not dead set on only doing face-to-face practice, and it sounds interesting. Is there a specific way to go about this?

 

[chicandtoughness]

I would like to know more about this! I am not dead set on only doing face-to-face practice, and it sounds interesting. Is there a specific way to go about this?

Usually you need your full license first, so you will have to slog through a masters degree + your post-graduate 3000 hours (or whatever the requirement is in your state). Once you're done, you can just apply for jobs. I would recommend doing your post-graduate hours in an agency setting, preferably one where therapists do their own UR, so that you can get experience in the area. PM me for more info!