confusion

[BuckyBadger08]

Okay so I had a few questions on what I should do. I'm 20 years old and am just now deciding to go back to school. I took a few years off to work and try to figure out what path I wanted to go in life. After being a landscaper, store manager, warehouse worker, tool and die maker, machinst and now currently an application engineer without a degree, I decided I didn't enjoy manual labor or working in a factory at all. I thought of continuing to pursue engineering but decided against it because it doesn't interest me as much and the only reason I took the position was because my grandfather was an engineer and I wanted to give it a try. Well I did a lot of soul searching over this winter and have finally decided I want to become a physician. Ever since I was young I've had a strong desire to help people and have always felt a responsibility to take care of others around me. My mother always tells the story of me when I was in preschool and helped a classmate tie his shoe because he couldn't quite get it. Trust me I know tying a shoe and performing open heart surgery are two completely different things but shows I've had some form of empathy all my life and it followed me through all my years in school.

At first I thought going to school now to become a doctor was too late since I have been it of school for two years. After being reassured and encouraging myself to do what I truly want I decided I will make it work whatever the circumstances. One my questions is what is a solid undergrad to pursue? I have a high interest in human anatomy and physiology but couldn't come up with a major for the schools I am looking to attend. I first thought of kinesiology since I used to compete as a bodybuilder and have always had interest in how the body moves but was discouraged by my school counselor saying it may be a mistake if you truly want to get into med school? Any other opinions? Another question I have to is what about becoming a Medical assistant,CNA, or EMT? I just talked to a recent MD grad and he explained to me that it wouldn't really matter if I took either of this programs as I should focus on my studies for a high GPA and having a 95 percentile MCAT score. Then told me it's better if I just volunteer. Any opinions on the value of either of those before med school? I am really looking for opinions and some guidance as to where to start as I go on through my journey. I am all for constructive criticism as well. Thank you all to anyone who can lend some time to help!

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[LizzyM]

You will need to attend college with the goal of earning a bachelor's degree. You can major in any subject area but vocational degrees (those that prepare you for a specific field like medical laboratory science, or dietetics or nursing) are not considered very rigorous. Most applicants to medical school have undergraduate degrees in biology but math, psychology, or even philosophy are fine as are the hundreds of other majors available at different universities.

You can start out at a community college and transfer to a four year school or go directly to a school that offers bachelor's degrees.

It doesn't hurt to get involved as soon as possible as a volunteer at a hospital, nursing home, hospice or free clinic to see if you like the environment and can see yourself working with the sick/disabled/dying/injured over the next 40 years.

You do not need a EMT, CNA, or other license to prepare for medical school. If you need a job and can acquire the credential and be employed, that's fine but it is not a requirement.

Your main focus as you get back into school is to do well in the courses you choose and to learn to ask for help as soon as you encounter difficulty. Learn how to study in college which can be a different beast than HS studying.

You'll find much of what you need to know by reading the stickies at the top of this forum, using the search function and asking good questions here.

 

[Goro]

Get this book:
Med School Rx: Getting In, Getting Through, and Getting On with Doctoring
by Walter Hartwig
ISBN 1607148358
(ISBN13: 9781607148357)

Okay so I had a few questions on what I should do. I'm 20 years old and am just now deciding to go back to school. I took a few years off to work and try to figure out what path I wanted to go in life. After being a landscaper, store manager, warehouse worker, tool and die maker, machinst and now currently an application engineer without a degree, I decided I didn't enjoy manual labor or working in a factory at all. I thought of continuing to pursue engineering but decided against it because it doesn't interest me as much and the only reason I took the position was because my grandfather was an engineer and I wanted to give it a try. Well I did a lot of soul searching over this winter and have finally decided I want to become a physician. Ever since I was young I've had a strong desire to help people and have always felt a responsibility to take care of others around me. My mother always tells the story of me when I was in preschool and helped a classmate tie his shoe because he couldn't quite get it. Trust me I know tying a shoe and performing open heart surgery are two completely different things but shows I've had some form of empathy all my life and it followed me through all my years in school.

At first I thought going to school now to become a doctor was too late since I have been it of school for two years. After being reassured and encouraging myself to do what I truly want I decided I will make it work whatever the circumstances. One my questions is what is a solid undergrad to pursue? I have a high interest in human anatomy and physiology but couldn't come up with a major for the schools I am looking to attend. I first thought of kinesiology since I used to compete as a bodybuilder and have always had interest in how the body moves but was discouraged by my school counselor saying it may be a mistake if you truly want to get into med school? Any other opinions? Another question I have to is what about becoming a Medical assistant,CNA, or EMT? I just talked to a recent MD grad and he explained to me that it wouldn't really matter if I took either of this programs as I should focus on my studies for a high GPA and having a 95 percentile MCAT score. Then told me it's better if I just volunteer. Any opinions on the value of either of those before med school? I am really looking for opinions and some guidance as to where to start as I go on through my journey. I am all for constructive criticism as well. Thank you all to anyone who can lend some time to help!

 

[allanMED15]

Okay so I had a few questions on what I should do. I'm 20 years old and am just now deciding to go back to school. I took a few years off to work and try to figure out what path I wanted to go in life. After being a landscaper, store manager, warehouse worker, tool and die maker, machinst and now currently an application engineer without a degree, I decided I didn't enjoy manual labor or working in a factory at all. I thought of continuing to pursue engineering but decided against it because it doesn't interest me as much and the only reason I took the position was because my grandfather was an engineer and I wanted to give it a try. Well I did a lot of soul searching over this winter and have finally decided I want to become a physician. Ever since I was young I've had a strong desire to help people and have always felt a responsibility to take care of others around me. My mother always tells the story of me when I was in preschool and helped a classmate tie his shoe because he couldn't quite get it. Trust me I know tying a shoe and performing open heart surgery are two completely different things but shows I've had some form of empathy all my life and it followed me through all my years in school.

At first I thought going to school now to become a doctor was too late since I have been it of school for two years. After being reassured and encouraging myself to do what I truly want I decided I will make it work whatever the circumstances. One my questions is what is a solid undergrad to pursue? I have a high interest in human anatomy and physiology but couldn't come up with a major for the schools I am looking to attend. I first thought of kinesiology since I used to compete as a bodybuilder and have always had interest in how the body moves but was discouraged by my school counselor saying it may be a mistake if you truly want to get into med school? Any other opinions? Another question I have to is what about becoming a Medical assistant,CNA, or EMT? I just talked to a recent MD grad and he explained to me that it wouldn't really matter if I took either of this programs as I should focus on my studies for a high GPA and having a 95 percentile MCAT score. Then told me it's better if I just volunteer. Any opinions on the value of either of those before med school? I am really looking for opinions and some guidance as to where to start as I go on through my journey. I am all for constructive criticism as well. Thank you all to anyone who can lend some time to help!

OP, take this advice from both of these posters. They are admissions committee members that give great advice to everyone that posts on these forums.
I also second Goro's suggestion on that book. I did not read it until after I had applied, but it really is excellent.

Edit: I do not have much to add because their posts should really get you started down the road. It will take some time to get it all together, but good luck!

 

[BuckyBadger08]

Get this book:
Med School Rx: Getting In, Getting Through, and Getting On with Doctoring
by Walter Hartwig
ISBN 1607148358
(ISBN13: 9781607148357)

Just ordered it off of amazon. Thank you for letting me know about it!

 

[Goro]

Shill alert: Dr Hartwig share the same profession and is an old pal of mine.

Just ordered it off of amazon. Thank you for letting me know about it!

 

[BuckyBadger08]

You will need to attend college with the goal of earning a bachelor's degree. You can major in any subject area but vocational degrees (those that prepare you for a specific field like medical laboratory science, or dietetics or nursing) are not considered very rigorous. Most applicants to medical school have undergraduate degrees in biology but math, psychology, or even philosophy are fine as are the hundreds of other majors available at different universities.

You can start out at a community college and transfer to a four year school or go directly to a school that offers bachelor's degrees.

It doesn't hurt to get involved as soon as possible as a volunteer at a hospital, nursing home, hospice or free clinic to see if you like the environment and can see yourself working with the sick/disabled/dying/injured over the next 40 years.

You do not need a EMT, CNA, or other license to prepare for medical school. If you need a job and can acquire the credential and be employed, that's fine but it is not a requirement.

Your main focus as you get back into school is to do well in the courses you choose and to learn to ask for help as soon as you encounter difficulty. Learn how to study in college which can be a different beast than HS studying.

You'll find much of what you need to know by reading the stickies at the top of this forum, using the search function and asking good questions here.

Do you know about a bachelors in kinesiology by any chance? I just didn't quite understand why the counselor at my college said it wouldn't be a good idea as it doesn't look great on med school applications. However thank you for your quick response and all the information you gave me I will definitely be able to utilize it in my future. I have already started shadowing physicians already such as my family doctor and will be shadowing my fathers surgeon this summer and so far I have had positive experiences. I am working on finding a place to volunteer as well.

 

[BuckyBadger08]

Shill alert: Dr Hartwig share the same profession and is an old pal of mine.

Shill alert: Dr Hartwig share the same profession and is an old pal of mine

OP, take this advice from both of these posters. They are admissions committee members that give great advice to everyone that posts on these forums.
I also second Goro's suggestion on that book. I did not read it until after I had applied, but it really is excellent.

Edit: I do not have much to add because their posts should really get you started down the road. It will take some time to get it all together, but good luck!

I am looking forward to reading it. And you added enough by just agreeing with them so I thank you as well. I have been told it's a stressful journey but very much worth it in the end.

 

[BuckyBadger08]

Shill alert: Dr Hartwig share the same profession and is an old pal of mine.

That's awesome! Looking forward to read his book!

 

[AttendingAdvice]

Okay so I had a few questions on what I should do. I'm 20 years old and am just now deciding to go back to school. I took a few years off to work and try to figure out what path I wanted to go in life. After being a landscaper, store manager, warehouse worker, tool and die maker, machinst and now currently an application engineer without a degree, I decided I didn't enjoy manual labor or working in a factory at all. I thought of continuing to pursue engineering but decided against it because it doesn't interest me as much and the only reason I took the position was because my grandfather was an engineer and I wanted to give it a try. Well I did a lot of soul searching over this winter and have finally decided I want to become a physician. Ever since I was young I've had a strong desire to help people and have always felt a responsibility to take care of others around me. My mother always tells the story of me when I was in preschool and helped a classmate tie his shoe because he couldn't quite get it. Trust me I know tying a shoe and performing open heart surgery are two completely different things but shows I've had some form of empathy all my life and it followed me through all my years in school.

At first I thought going to school now to become a doctor was too late since I have been it of school for two years. After being reassured and encouraging myself to do what I truly want I decided I will make it work whatever the circumstances. One my questions is what is a solid undergrad to pursue? I have a high interest in human anatomy and physiology but couldn't come up with a major for the schools I am looking to attend. I first thought of kinesiology since I used to compete as a bodybuilder and have always had interest in how the body moves but was discouraged by my school counselor saying it may be a mistake if you truly want to get into med school? Any other opinions? Another question I have to is what about becoming a Medical assistant,CNA, or EMT? I just talked to a recent MD grad and he explained to me that it wouldn't really matter if I took either of this programs as I should focus on my studies for a high GPA and having a 95 percentile MCAT score. Then told me it's better if I just volunteer. Any opinions on the value of either of those before med school? I am really looking for opinions and some guidance as to where to start as I go on through my journey. I am all for constructive criticism as well. Thank you all to anyone who can lend some time to help!

Good for you for coming to a realization that u want a challeging career and are willing to go back to school. I definitely think u should consider getting a degree in something that will allow u to get paid licensed patient care experience. Consider RN, PA, paramedic...we at the admissions committee absolutely favor candidates that have these degrees and experience. I personally offered interviews to almost every candidate that had these types if degrees, for a multitude of reasons. Read the short ebook by Adrian Aaron on Amazon, it will explain this and many other things really well and give you a tremedous leg up on this journey.

 

[LizzyM]

Good for you for coming to a realization that u want a challeging career and are willing to go back to school. I definitely think u should consider getting a degree in something that will allow u to get paid licensed patient care experience. Consider RN, PA, paramedic...we at the admissions committee absolutely favor candidates that have these degrees and experience. I personally offered interviews to almost every candidate that had these types if degrees, for a multitude of reasons. Read the short ebook by Adrian Aaron on Amazon, it will explain this and many other things really well and give you a tremedous leg up on this journey.

Do keep in mind that applicants to medical school that have majored in health sciences (which would include RN and kinesiology) have the worst record of medical school admissions but on average they get in with slightly lower grades and scores. On the other hand, to keep in mind that some of these folks may be career changes who are advanced in age and experience rather than coming right out of college.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/factstablea17.pdf

Do NOT get a license to practice a profession with the hope of using it as a stepping stone to another career. One thing I see too often is people who get stuck in the time sink of "clinicals" in these vocational programs or not buying into the philosophy of care in the one profession because the student's goal is medicine, not nursing or whatever.

If you want to go to medical school, get your feet wet through shadowing and volunteering, get exceptionally good grades, do well on the MCAT, and, if you are so inclined, get some research experience. It is also helpful to get involved in helping people in your community who need help in something other than a medical context. That could be involvement with Scouting, Big Brother/Big Sister (mentoring), a food pantry or soup kitchen, a service program through your house of worship, resettlement assistance for refugees, after school tutoring/sports for poor kids.

 

[Certified Corsair]

You will need to attend college with the goal of earning a bachelor's degree. You can major in any subject area but vocational degrees (those that prepare you for a specific field like medical laboratory science, or dietetics or nursing) are not considered very rigorous. Most applicants to medical school have undergraduate degrees in biology but math, psychology, or even philosophy are fine as are the hundreds of other majors available at different universities.

You can start out at a community college and transfer to a four year school or go directly to a school that offers bachelor's degrees.

It doesn't hurt to get involved as soon as possible as a volunteer at a hospital, nursing home, hospice or free clinic to see if you like the environment and can see yourself working with the sick/disabled/dying/injured over the next 40 years.

You do not need a EMT, CNA, or other license to prepare for medical school. If you need a job and can acquire the credential and be employed, that's fine but it is not a requirement.

Your main focus as you get back into school is to do well in the courses you choose and to learn to ask for help as soon as you encounter difficulty. Learn how to study in college which can be a different beast than HS studying.

You'll find much of what you need to know by reading the stickies at the top of this forum, using the search function and asking good questions here.

Just curious, but what do you have against Medical Laboratory Science as an undergraduate background before medical school? Why is it less competitive?

 

[gyngyn]

Just curious, but what do you have against Medical Laboratory Science as an undergraduate background before medical school? Why is it less competitive?

Vocational degrees are considered "watered down" by many evaluators. We are just letting you know that.
Outcomes for these majors are not as good. We don't know the extent to which the perception affects the outcome.

 

[Certified Corsair]

Vocational degrees are considered "watered down" by many evaluators. We are just letting you know that.
Outcomes for these majors are not as good. We don't know the extent to which the perception affects the outcome.

Okay good to know. I'm from MA and graduated in a MLS program, we've had 4 students in the past 4 years get accepted to tufts, BU, and UMass, and Brown. Our typical class size was around 30

 

[gyngyn]

Okay good to know. I'm from MA and graduated in a MLS program, we've had 4 students in the past 4 years get accepted to tufts, BU, and UMass, and Brown. Our typical class size was around 30

How many applicants to medical school? This could either be great or awful...

 

[Certified Corsair]

How many applicants to medical school?

We only had 1 or 2 each year from my understanding, usually top of the class. That was me and I took a gap year but plan on applying this coming cycle

Our advisor is pretty good at knowing who is capable or not and doesn't even have others waste the time trying

 

[gyngyn]

We only had 1 or 2 each year from my understanding, usually top of the class. That was me and I took a gap year but plan on applying this coming cycle

There is no major that precludes a successful application!

 

[Certified Corsair]

There is no major that precludes a successful application!

You started having me worried that I should reevaluate myself lol

 

[LizzyM]

Okay good to know. I'm from MA and graduated in a MLS program, we've had 4 students in the past 4 years get accepted to tufts, BU, and UMass, and Brown. Our typical class size was around 30

MLS ?? is that a Special Masters Program aimed at proving one's capacity for medical school academic success? That's a different beast than a B.S. meant to train people to work in clinical laboratories. I recall seeing a student who had a graded course in Urinalysis.

 

[Certified Corsair]

MLS ?? is that a Special Masters Program aimed at proving one's capacity for medical school academic success? That's a different beast than a B.S. meant to train people to work in clinical laboratories. I recall seeing a student who had a graded course in Urinalysis.

Mine was a BS in medical laboratory science, albeit more rigorous than most others in the country if I'm going to be quite honest. But they do also offer a 1 year masters extension to the BS at my school.

In terms of courses, I have taken all pre-med courses outside of the major, but within major we take classes extensively in microbiology, hematology, immunology/immunohematology (blood banking), biochemistry, analytical chemistry, and we also had upper level physiology/pathology and genetics courses. I honestly can't compare to a general biology pre-med student but I helped students in pre-med classes on numerous occasions to understand some of these concepts.

IMO though, our professors taught us way more about the human pathology linked to clinical laboratory testing than we needed, but having that information and not really using it at work is one of the reasons I would like to go to med school lol.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Mine was a BS in medical laboratory science, albeit more rigorous than most others in the country if I'm going to be quite honest. But they do also offer a 1 year masters extension to the BS at my school.

In terms of courses, I have taken all pre-med courses outside of the major, but within major we take classes extensively in microbiology, hematology, immunology/immunohematology (blood banking), biochemistry, analytical chemistry, and we also had upper level physiology/pathology and genetics courses. I honestly can't compare to a general biology pre-med student but I helped students in pre-med classes on numerous occasions to understand some of these concepts.

IMO though, our professors taught us way more about the human pathology linked to clinical laboratory testing than we needed, but having that information and not really using it at work is one of the reasons I would like to go to med school lol.

So the crappy thing about the clinical lab science degree is that with some adcoms it seems to box us in with other people in allied health fields who often take "light" versions of the pre req science courses and some seem to have the perception that it isn't that rigorous compared to say a B.S. in Biology or Chemistry. That's assuming they have any clue what clinical lab science is in the first place. A lot of docs don't. Also, people seem to confuse the hell out of the fact that there's a two year degree that probably is a bit lighter weight, in addition to the four year and look at us more like vocational tech button pushers or analyzer jockeys .

That's not at all what the bachelor's degree is, as the emphasis is very heavy on the physiology and pathophysiology before we ever touch on the diagnostics. But most people don't know that.

Now I don't think that perception makes a lot of sense because while my good friend in nursing school (who had first gotten a B.S. in Biology) was laughing about what a joke some of her science classes were (a lot of her fellow nursing students took microbiology in the nutrition dept because the bio depts micro was "too hard"), my CLS degree required the same biology 1 & 2, chem 1 & 2, organic 1 & 2, and biochem courses that people in those majors and the premeds took as pre reqs. So a CLS grad has experienced the same rigor for those classes. I came into my CLS program already having a BS in Bio. and BAS in Psych. and can honestly say my upper level CLS classes were more rigorous and challenging (and interesting) than the upper level bio classes I took.

Plus, in my CLS courses we had something called critical objectives. You had to know these cold and get them 100% right on exams every time they showed up or you did not pass, even if your overall percentage was high enough. Some were on the patho phys and didactic stuff some in the lab practical. At the end of the degree we had one massive final over everything that had to be passed, including more critical objectives. That kind of quality control doesn't exist with a bio degree.

So you're likely to get mixed responses on the CLS degree from adcoms. My state school where I currently live had a CLS program and the med school had quite a few students from that program who've been high performing med students, so they view a solid performance in CLS as an asset in applicants. I believe at that school the CLS grads had about a 10% higher acceptance rate than the bio majors. The same was true at the state school in my previous state. Work experience was considered a huge plus. Other med schools who don't have CLS programs at their institutions are likely to lump it in with other allied health programs.

The CLS grads I know that went to med school have said the background was very beneficial to them during med school and residency and they are glad they did it.

So if you want to apply to med school, just rock the MCAT, prepare an otherwise solid app. and go for it.

 

[wholeheartedly]

@LizzyM I can see why a graded urinalysis class might seem laughable if you're picturing a course that teaches people how to dip and read a dipstick, but I assure that's not the case

If you're interested...that's a pretty minute portion of the content. It's pretty heavy on normal physiology, then pathophysiology of the renal system as well as other systems that lead to changes that can be measured in urine (everything from bladder infections and kidney stones to metabolic disorders) that then transitions into learning how to assess those things via diagnostics like the dipstick, microscopy (not just ID ing stuff but understanding how each type of crystal or cast, etc is formed in either normal or abnormal processes), knowing the all the chemistry behind the reactions that take place in each dipstick pad, knowing the chemistry behind false pos and false neg results and interfering substances. Then all the specialty urine tests. Sensitivy and specificty for the different assays, rationale for choosing one test vs. another given what you might be trying to asses. then quality control and regulatory compliance topics (my fave )


and just like med students, CLS students seem to loath renal physiology with a particularly unique passion

 

[Certified Corsair]

@LizzyM I can see why a graded urinalysis class might seem laughable if you're picturing a course that teaches people how to dip and read a dipstick, but I assure that's not the case

If you're interested...that's a pretty minute portion of the content. It's pretty heavy on normal physiology, then pathophysiology of the renal system as well as other systems that lead to changes that can be measured in urine (everything from bladder infections and kidney stones to metabolic disorders) that then transitions into learning how to assess those things via diagnostics like the dipstick, microscopy (not just ID ing stuff but understanding how each type of crystal or cast, etc is formed in either normal or abnormal processes), knowing the all the chemistry behind the reactions that take place in each dipstick pad, knowing the chemistry behind false pos and false neg results and interfering substances. Then all the specialty urine tests. Sensitivy and specificty for the different assays, rationale for choosing one test vs. another given what you might be trying to asses. then quality control and regulatory compliance topics (my fave )


and just like med students, CLS students seem to loath renal physiology with a particularly unique passion

I can back up this passion for renal physiology.