Psychiatry still rocks. Remember, Psychiatry compensation on an hourly basis is high. This doesn't reflect that. Nearly 70% of psychiatrists spend less than 40 hours a week seeing patients. [Medscape report]
If $197,000 is from, say, 35 hours of work a week, then adjusted to, say, 50 hours of work a week would translate to a $280,000 income.
And while other specialties are facing pay cuts, Psych saw the second highest increase in pay of all specialties this year at 6.1%. As one of the lowest overhead specialties in great shortage, it's hard to beat.
Psychiatry is right next to Dermatology in 1) reasonable working hours, and 2) overall career satisfaction. Derm is #1 in satisfaction and fewest hours spent seeing patients, and Psych is #2 in both categories.
Agree with above. I was initially worried about the consistent salary reports showing psych near the bottom, and then I read the medscape report which confirmed that the vast majority of psychiatrists work 30 hours or less (including many of those that are 20 hours or less), which significantly distorts the average. Then I compared to cardiologists which work 55 or 60 hours per week, and I was sold on psych. Not very hard to make 300k and have a way better lifestyle than most other specialties.
Nice analysis...
Interesting to see if Psych joins ROAD in the next 10 years... wouldn't surprise me if this trend continues.
And one other big pro you forgot to mention about psych is the awesome job market....
You may want to factor in cost of living, taxes, etc.I noticed how west coast psychiatrists make the most. California state employed psychiatrists have very nice gigs.
http://www.dsh.ca.gov/jobs/psychiatry_jobs.asp
Napa, CA has jobs for $18,146.00-$22,377.00 a month + OT + generous state benefits/pension.
The idea that the average dermatologist or plastic surgeon makes just over 300k is laughable.....there are derms in this area that make sure to limit their medicare % to just 15-20% of their patient base and *still* collected over 500k from medicare.......these numbers are worthless. If you believe derms and plastics who aren't in academics or research are out there only making 300k you're pretty naive.
so this thread begs to 2 follow up questions:
1. why do so many psychiatrists only work 30 hours a weeks?
2. why are west coast psychiatrists rolling it in? I thought sf and la usually are saturated markets that pay the least....?
Psychiatry rocks. Remember, Psychiatry compensation on an hourly basis is high. This doesn't reflect that. Nearly 70% of psychiatrists spend less than 40 hours a week seeing patients. [Medscape report]
If $197,000 is from, say, 35 hours of work a week, then adjusted to, say, 50 hours of work a week would translate to a $280,000 income.
And while other specialties are facing pay cuts, Psych saw the second highest increase in pay of all specialties this year at 6.1%. As one of the lowest overhead specialties in great shortage, it's hard to beat.
Psychiatry is right next to Dermatology in 1) reasonable working hours, and 2) overall career satisfaction. Derm is #1 in satisfaction and fewest hours spent seeing patients, and Psych is #2 in both categories.
$400/hr and living in la? that sounds like the drean to me...
I agree cost of living in cali is high...but 400 bucks I doubt anyone will be struggling to survive....especially if you clock 50 hour weeks..
In vistaril land, solving for the dermatologist's salary:
DS * 0.15 = 500,000
DS = 500,000/0.15 = a cool $3,333,333.
Of course this is an underestimate since they collect *at least* 500k from medicare; given that private insurance rates are higher I'm guessing a not-untypical derm makes $5-15 million per year right?
And it's tough to find a bearable psych job for over 100k... and those that do still exist will be snatched up by the employer-preferred NP.
It must be a sad place to reside...
the math may work out, but does that work out in the real world?
I'm so confused about the future of psychiatry, one thread below this one is talking about the NP takeover, while this thread gives a pretty bright outlook. I understand there is biased sampling but this is so confusing...
Another point to make is that Psychiatry is one of the few specialties in medicine where patients will be willing to pay out of pocket for their services. Besides Derm and Plastics, what other specialty can open a cash-only practice? Basically none. This is a huge advantage that I feel most people dont recognize - it means that our demand is even greater than we estimate it to be.
Another point to make is that Psychiatry is one of the few specialties in medicine where patients will be willing to pay out of pocket for their services. Besides Derm and Plastics, what other specialty can open a cash-only practice? Basically none. This is a huge advantage that I feel most people dont recognize - it means that our demand is even greater than we estimate it to be.
80% of the market in what world? Certainly not America? That wouldn't even be possible in the market of just 'the uninsured'?Not so fast. Cash practices or ins free practices are growing rapidly. You don't have car ins for gasoline so why have health ins for the majority of medicine that can be made affordable.
Direct care practices like mine often charge $10-100/pt/mo for unlimited visits, no copays, all office procedures free of charge and wholesale medications and labs for up to 95% savings. Then we can lower ins premiums by 30-60%, often saving families 500$/mo.
Yes direct care models work for peds, FP, IM, psych, women's health and many other specialties.
Docs in these models make more money seeing fewer patients but providing better care for less money.
I predict that DPC models will make up 80% of the market in 3-5 years.
80% of the market in what world? Certainly not America? That wouldn't even be possible in the market of just 'the uninsured'?
DCPs as you call them and concierge practices are wonderful opportunities for innovation in the practice of medicine, but our GOVERNMENT dictates the market. Like it or not health insurance is queen. With the PPACA (Obamacare if you will), insurance is easier (insert giggles here) to attain. On top of the supremacy of the insurance market, we still have an incredible amount of individuals battling poverty who couldn't afford $120/year (especially if they'll have to pay a yearly penalty for non-enrollment in Obamacare); folks with Medicaid aren't joining DCPs either.
Even if we exclude the insured and the poor from whatever fantasy market you're envisioning, there's a lot of risk involved in your model and physicians will be cautious to take the leap. In addition, that level of competition in your 80% pipe dream would drive rates and profit down. Nice vision... but the reality is that model must remain small to succeed - and it will.
Although I disagree with your optimism, I support creative ideas in health care delivery and physician autonomy.
This appears to work well for FM/IM who haven't utilized self-pay models as much, but I don't see it for psychiatry. Psychiatrists in self-pay private practice can determine their fees; if allowed, patients could negotiate a fee reduction. I don't see a clear advantage with DCP.
The problem stems from the wage controls put in place after WW2, which is the historical reason for employer-sponsored health insurance. IMO, imployer-sponsored benefits across the board are BS. Just give me the straight cash instead, so I can spend it the way I want. Unfortunately, employer-sponsored health insurance is so entrenched in our society that I don't see it vanishing anytime soon. My preference is to fund an HSA maximally, buy a catastrophic policy, and pay cash for primary care. That way I can reduce my costs maximally and invest/do other stuff with the remaining balance.
Is it possible to work a second job in psychiatry? Do most companies that higher physicians have non compete clause that would prevent them from having a second job? As a non trad student interested in psychiatry, I would like to pay back my student loan in 5-6 years. I don't want have student loan when I am approaching 50... Therefore, I would like to have a salary that will allow me to live like an average middle class while paying back my loan in 5-6 years... I want to know if I can work Mon-Fri from one company and then have second job on weekend... I made some calculation and I saw that paying back my loan in 5-6 might be feasible on a 300+k/year salary....
Referring back to the original post....how in the world did ob/gyn see such an increase in compensation??
You speak gospel. The way our society has synonymized employment with healthcare has irked me. What employers once offered as a nice perk, we've come to demand be their responsibility to provide.
Let me take a stab, being that I'm in the heart of California.
When you're in PP, the highly desirable cities pay more because the people living there have more money (a lot more money). There's no middle man/employer to bargain down your salary. Millionaires in Beverly Hills? Everywhere.
While LA and SF and San Diego are saturated markets for most doctors, psychiatry is not saturated. And if you're talking about child psychiatrists, there's a shortage everywhere even in those cities. I know because our child psychiatry attendings complain how the shortage affects the kids who have to wait months for an appointment.
Kaiser pays very nicely to fresh grads in Cali. I've heard something north of $220,000, but not 100% accurate on the price.
PP in West LA and Palo Alto charge $400/hr, farther south around $300/hr. Go check the websites of PP docs or, better yet, go see one and see for yourself. To live in the golden state you gotta have gold.
There is a massive shortage of OB/GYNs are well. That is why.
I question the validity of these Medscape salary surveys. Look at the abysmal response rates below. Sampling bias is quite glaring.
I wonder how representative these numbers are to the actual numbers.
That is correct. It is not a representation of the response rates. Also, the data posted by Mapplicant does not appear to be from the survey discussed in this thread. And at 21,878 respondents, 7% equates to about 1,532 respondents from Psychiatry - a fairly large number as far as surveys go.
I question the validity of these Medscape salary surveys. Look at the abysmal response rates below. Sampling bias is quite glaring.
I wonder how representative these numbers are to the actual numbers.
after looking at it now, that makes sense. 2% of derms and 1% of plastic surgeons responded. I know these people are making 7 figures if they are working hard in private practice, so it makes sense that the hard working pp types wouldn't bother to respond to a survey that 1% of people in the field responded to. Now I understand how they could come to that ridiculous 300k figure(which is what many of those guys make by early to mid march)