Coming back to Canada after completing MD in caribbean

[ftcnt]

hello everyone,

im wondering what the likelihood of being able to return to canada after finishing the MD and residency in the caribbean/us. i am aware of the huge huge financial burden but what i like to know is if the credentials will be recognized or will i have to go through the IMG route. thanks

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[D30417995]

hello everyone,

im wondering what the likelihood of being able to return to canada after finishing the MD and residency in the caribbean/us. i am aware of the huge huge financial burden but what i like to know is if the credentials will be recognized or will i have to go through the IMG route. thanks

Hmmm, the thing is, even if you graduate from Oxford Medical School, you'll still have to go through the IMG route if you want to practise in Canada....

A med degree from Oxford is surely recognised worldwide....

 

[ftcnt]

that being side, if i were to go an american school say, harvard and do my residency also in boston, i know i wont be going through the IMG process. does this also apply if i did the MD in the caribbean and then my residency say in the new york city area in family practice and tried to come back to canada

 

[docbill]

hmmmm good question

So the difficult part is getting a residency in the US as a caribean grad and not having green card.

I BELIEVE, that if you went to a US MD or DO school, to come back to Ontario, if you do your USMLEs (new format) or COMLEX (new format) and an ACGME (AKA AMA approved) residency in the states and get recognized by your college of specialty (eg. College of ER, College of Int.Med, college of whatever) then you can come back and work in Ontario. You will not have to do any more exams (From what I understand).

IF you go to a school outside the US, the process might be more difficult.

Please go to College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario to get more info.

GOOGLE works also.

good luck.

 

[mkmgal]

Docbill,

Have you heard about other provinces following suit? I would imagine that other provinces might follow Ontario's lead by accepting the USMLE and/or COMLEX. There's such a physician shortage throughout the country. I would think Canada would gladly accept equally or similarly-trained physicians, as evidenced by the USMLE/COMLEX, to help alleviate the strain.

 

[docbill]

I think BC and Alberta will follow. BC now will give a temperary billing number.

Quebec won't since they have their own, exam and will want to keep it to control language requirements.

NB is already easy to work in if you have rights to work in Maine. YOu just go and pay and fee and get equivalent license. I don't know about others. SInce I am only interested in Qc, BC, Alb, and ON.

Also I will say that there are exceptions to the rules. If they want you and your are in big demand, then the hospital can help you get temp arrangements. At least I have seen it happen here in TO.

 

[ftcnt]

thanks for the tip. conducting a quick search on the college website...i found (http://www.cpso.on.ca/Info_physicians/registration.htm)

"is from a medical school that is accredited by the Committee on Accreditation of Canadian Medical Schools or by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education of the United States of America"

on the Liaison Committee on Medical Education of the United States of America (http://www.lcme.org/directry.htm) none of the caribbean schools are listed. at least on paper, it would appear to me that it would not be possible to come back unless going through the img route. someone please contribute to this if you have more info.

 

[docbill]

thanks for the tip. conducting a quick search on the college website...i found (http://www.cpso.on.ca/Info_physicians/registration.htm)

"is from a medical school that is accredited by the Committee on Accreditation of Canadian Medical Schools or by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education of the United States of America"

on the Liaison Committee on Medical Education of the United States of America (http://www.lcme.org/directry.htm) none of the caribbean schools are listed. at least on paper, it would appear to me that it would not be possible to come back unless going through the img route. someone please contribute to this if you have more info.

That is correct. Only US and Canadian Med Schools are LCME accredited. DO school are not unfortunately, but that might change in the future. But they still have more benefits in the US and Canada, than Carib med school.

 

[Meat Cookie]

"is from a medical school that is accredited by the Committee on Accreditation of Canadian Medical Schools or by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education of the United States of America"

on the Liaison Committee on Medical Education of the United States of America (http://www.lcme.org/directry.htm) none of the caribbean schools are listed. at least on paper, it would appear to me that it would not be possible to come back unless going through the img route. someone please contribute to this if you have more info.

While not LCME, Carib grads can still come back to practice in Ontario. See the requirements for independent practice on the CPSO site. The sticking point is the requirement of one year of Cdn experience before getting a license. I'm not sure how to get around that, short of going to another province first for a year.

 

[rbrun]

i've heard that the residency must be redone upon return to canada. is this true?
also, most provinces recognize full practice rights for d.o. does this mean that a hospital could hire a d.o. in their specialty as they would an m.d.?
thanks

 

[firetown]

I think that for US grads, Onatario and Quebec allow them to match in the first round. For DO grads, it is only Ontario that allows matching in FM in the first round. The requirements are on the CARMS site.
http://www.carms.ca/jsp/main.jsp?path=../content/applying/eligibility

Residencies done in the US need not be redone when coming back to Canada. I do not know how this would apply to DO's. However you may need to check on the number of years. Like FM is 3 years in the US but 2 years in Canada so should not be a problem for US FM to get a licence in Canada. EM is 3 years in US but 5 years in Canada and that will pose a problem for any EM physician to get a licence.

For carribean grads or other IMG's, a residency in the US will easily enable you to get a licence in Canada as long as the number of years of residency are the same. With a residency from the US, I do not think you will need the one year Canadian experience that Ontario ask for to get a licence.

 

[docbill]

I think that for US grads, Onatario and Quebec allow them to match in the first round. For DO grads, it is only Ontario that allows matching in FM in the first round. The requirements are on the CARMS site.
http://www.carms.ca/jsp/main.jsp?path=../content/applying/eligibility.

I believe this is correct. Alberta may also let you match first round. Other provinces may differ. That is the problem with going DO, you are going to stay in the US for residency (and actually most US MD programs - excluding the top schools), becauce of the 1:1.1 ratio of grad to residency positions, matching in Canada is not as easy and is much harder for DO. Also to Match in Canada as a DO you have to right the Canadian Medical exams. READ THE FINE PRINT.

Residencies done in the US need not be redone when coming back to Canada. I do not know how this would apply to DO's. However you may need to check on the number of years. Like FM is 3 years in the US but 2 years in Canada so should not be a problem for US FM to get a licence in Canada. EM is 3 years in US but 5 years in Canada and that will pose a problem for any EM physician to get a licence.

I believe, that if you can get registered in the College of your specialty (College of Emergency Medicine or College of Family Medicine etc...) You can come and practice in Ontario for sure. This may be possible for other provinces as well, I am not too sure. BC was thinking/working on a temperary billing number for US trained specialist, I don't know where that is now.

I am not too sure about IMG, and the process. However, if you have a green card it is much easier to get into residency in the US. Also FINE PRINT again, to get a J1 visa for the US, you need to get a letter from you province saying you can come back to work. For that you have to do the canadian exams. It is all do-able but will take more time and more energy.

 

[docbill]

i've heard that the residency must be redone upon return to canada. is this true?
also, most provinces recognize full practice rights for d.o. does this mean that a hospital could hire a d.o. in their specialty as they would an m.d.?
thanks

Hospitals CAN hire US trained DOs. I know of 2 who are working in hospitals in Ontario. Getting a fellowship in Canada, after residency may be a little bit more tricky. Again depends on competition and specialty you choose. Normally, hospital can make things easier for MDs and DOs (you can bill under the hospital or something like that. They just provide you salary). I don't know all the details, but it is not as easy as doing an MD in Canada (or the US), but with the right planning, choices, and decisions you can come back and work in Canada.

PS. DO's must do an LCME residency to come back and work in Canada.

 

[firetown]

I believe, that if you can get registered in the College of your specialty (College of Emergency Medicine or College of Family Medicine etc...) You can come and practice in Ontario for sure. This may be possible for other provinces as well, I am not too sure. BC was thinking/working on a temperary billing number for US trained specialist, I don't know where that is now.

It may not be easy getting registered in the college. Canada has only two colleges, College of Family Physicians for Familiy Doctors and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons (RCPSC) for all other specialties. Getting to write the RCPSC exam for registration will be a problem if your residency in the US is short of the number of years in Canada. Ontario have a program that offers up to 2 years extra training for those that need it before they can write the RCPSC exam.

 

[docbill]

It may not be easy getting registered in the college. Canada has only two colleges, College of Family Physicians for Familiy Doctors and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons (RCPSC) for all other specialties. Getting to write the RCPSC exam for registration will be a problem if your residency in the US is short of the number of years in Canada. Ontario have a program that offers up to 2 years extra training for those that need it before they can write the RCPSC exam.

Sorry, when I said register in the College of _______, that is meant for the US college of _____ not Canadian.

Definitely have to match the number of residency years required in Canada.

 

[ssc_396]

that being side, if i were to go an american school say, harvard and do my residency also in boston, i know i wont be going through the IMG process. does this also apply if i did the MD in the caribbean and then my residency say in the new york city area in family practice and tried to come back to canada

Yes - but even if you go to Harvard, and do your residency at some top place in the US you'll still need to do some repatriation program if you want to come back to Canada. I looked this up specifically for this school (I'm waitlisted there). You can, however, apply in the first round of carms for all but 2 provinces. But even then a Harvard MD will probably have a harder time than any Canadian MD (if you want a ultra-competitive specialty like I do). The residency programs I asked all said I should come back for electives even if I went to Harvard.

Basically, if you want to practice in Canada do your MD in Canada, even over top US schools. If you can't get in in Canada I'd say the hierarchy is US MD schools > US DO schools > Commonwealth schools > Carib.

I'd only go to the Carib if it was the absolute last option and I had tried several years of application cycle.