coming back to CA after OOS pharmacy school?

[kjann1515]

Hi,

I've been accepted to UMN, UMich and University of Colorado for their Pharm.D program, and I am trying to decide which school would be the best if I'm planning on coming back to California for residency.
Or does not it matter at all?
Any comments/advices would be appreciated.
Thank you!

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[angryrx]

Hi,

I've been accepted to UMN, UMich and CU for their Pharm.D program, and I am trying to decide which school would be the best if I'm planning on coming back to California for residency.
Or does it matter at all?
Any comments/advices would be appreciated.
Thank you!

I don't think it matters unless the interviewer has a preference to what school you went to.
Interview skills, communication, clean appearance, professionalism will win you more points.

Same for jobs, I have seen people come to CA (even in this flooded market) from out of state with no residency land inpatient jobs as recent as this year.

 

[njac]

Those are all great schools, which should help. You're not coming home from the first graduating class from Acme pharmacy academy.


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[samven582]

UMN for sure! I met someone at the WHO who was doing a rotation there.

 

[hye345]

I'm assuming CU = Creighton University? If so, they have a decent number of alumni in the CA area, and their APPE system lets you choose sites all over the country (assuming your chosen preceptor agrees to it too).

 

[kjann1515]

I'm assuming CU = Creighton University? If so, they have a decent number of alumni in the CA area, and their APPE system lets you choose sites all over the country (assuming your chosen preceptor agrees to it too).

I was referring to University of Colorado, but I really enjoyed my interview experience at Creighton as well. Do you know anything about grads from University of Colorado as well?

 

[kjann1515]

I don't think it matters unless the interviewer has a preference to what school you went to.
Interview skills, communication, clean appearance, professionalism will win you more points.

Same for jobs, I have seen people come to CA (even in this flooded market) from out of state with no residency land inpatient jobs as recent as this year.

Do people tend to have a preference to a specific school? I think this is where alumni connection would play its role. How much of an impact do alumni connections have on obtaining jobs?

 

[njac]

Do people tend to have a preference to a specific school? I think this is where alumni connection would play its role. How much of an impact do alumni connections have on obtaining jobs?

As a member of a residency interview committee at a hospital in CA - most of my coworker's went to school in CA. They are less familiar with schools out of CA and as flawed as it may be, will reference the US World and News report rankings just to get an idea of the school and its reputation. I don't always agree with that methodology, as all new schools aren't cut from the same cloth, but for the most part they've never heard of anywhere that started in the last 5-10 years.

An out of state alumni network won't help a ton at our program, but we're pretty small. But pharmacy is a small world, I'm pretty involved in some national committees and have run in to LORs from colleagues all over and will follow up on those.


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[kjann1515]

As a member of a residency interview committee at a hospital in CA - most of my coworker's went to school in CA. They are less familiar with schools out of CA and as flawed as it may be, will reference the US World and News report rankings just to get an idea of the school and its reputation. I don't always agree with that methodology, as all new schools aren't cut from the same cloth, but for the most part they've never heard of anywhere that started in the last 5-10 years.

An out of state alumni network won't help a ton at our program, but we're pretty small. But pharmacy is a small world, I'm pretty involved in some national committees and have run in to LORs from colleagues all over and will follow up on those.


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This is my first time hearing that the US News ranking actually 'matters'
How would you consider grads from the three schools I have listed? I wanted to know their general reputations in CA.

 

[njac]

This is my first time hearing that the US News ranking actually 'matters'
How would you consider grads from the three schools I have listed? I wanted to know their general reputations in CA.

I personally don't think it does, but some of these people have never looked outside the CA bubble, so have no idea how to compare University of Texas to Sullivan University to Temple.

All of the schools listed in the OP are great schools and I don't think would reflect anything but very well.





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[hye345]

I was referring to University of Colorado, but I really enjoyed my interview experience at Creighton as well. Do you know anything about grads from University of Colorado as well?

I do not, sorry.

 

[angryrx]

Do people tend to have a preference to a specific school? I think this is where alumni connection would play its role. How much of an impact do alumni connections have on obtaining jobs?

In my opinion, no. Unless the school has a very poor reputation, in my experience people don't really care. I have never seen an interviewer or panel look at pharmacy school rankings. I would go to the school that you feel is the best fit.

 

[confettiflyer]

We'll reach out to our extended network of colleagues to get a vague idea of what OOS schools are like out there. Otherwise, we're pretty heavily biased with the UCSF, UOP, and UCSD triad that comprise the bulk of our PGY-1 applicants.

Basically though, if 9/10 of your application is outstanding, that 1/10 factor of what school you came from will not preclude you from an interview. But if you're a marginal candidate from an unknown school, we'd rather call in the marginal candidate from a school we know.


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[xiphoid2010]

I personally don't think it does, but some of these people have never looked outside the CA bubble, so have no idea how to compare University of Texas to Sullivan University to Temple.

This is not just in California, but I want to say most places. Besides a few renowned schools, hospital in Texas isn't going to know most of OOS, and US News is the easy and dirty way to get a quick gauge the differences. Nobody cares if the differences are small, but a big one will have weight.

 

[kjann1515]

In my opinion, no. Unless the school has a very poor reputation, in my experience people don't really care. I have never seen an interviewer or panel look at pharmacy school rankings. I would go to the school that you feel is the best fit.

What do you think is the most important factor that I should be looking at when deciding which school is the best fit for me? All three schools have good programs, and I'm having a difficult time deciding. Thanks for your help!

We'll reach out to our extended network of colleagues to get a vague idea of what OOS schools are like out there. Otherwise, we're pretty heavily biased with the UCSF, UOP, and UCSD triad that comprise the bulk of our PGY-1 applicants.

Basically though, if 9/10 of your application is outstanding, that 1/10 factor of what school you came from will not preclude you from an interview. But if you're a marginal candidate from an unknown school, we'd rather call in the marginal candidate from a school we know.


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What are you opinions on UMN, UMich and UCDenver compared to schools in California? How are they perceived by hospitals in CA?

This is not just in California, but I want to say most places. Besides a few renowned schools, hospital in Texas isn't going to know most of OOS, and US News is the easy and dirty way to get a quick gauge the differences. Nobody cares if the differences are small, but a big one will have weight.

Thanks for your comment! It's interesting to hear that hospitals would actually look at US News rankings. What is considered a 'small' difference in ranking?
UMN is 3rd, UMich is 7th, and UCDenver is 24th.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Thanks for your comment! It's interesting to hear that hospitals would actually look at US News rankings. What is considered a 'small' difference in ranking?
UMN is 3rd, UMich is 7th, and UCDenver is 24th.

Lol, for the lack of better ranking system. If you are looking at an unfamiliar school name, people will google it. Try google "rank pharmacy school" and see what comes up.

I didn't go to any of the three schools, but I have heard of first two's by reputation. Can't say I have heard of UCD, but 24th is leave little doubt that it's a solid school. Personally, I wouldn't put any weight on difference less than 10, even 24th is good enough that I would only use it as a tie breaker.

For you as a student, since they are all good to excellent schools, I would advise you to put more thought on the cost of each pharmacy school. If any of them is significantly cheaper, go with that.

 

[kjann1515]

Lol, for the lack of better ranking system. If you are looking at an unfamiliar school name, people will google it. Try google "rank pharmacy school" and see what comes up.

I didn't go to any of the three schools, but I have heard of first two's by reputation. Can't say I have heard of UCD, but 24th is leave little doubt that it's a solid school. Personally, I wouldn't put any weight on difference less than 10, even 24th is good enough that I would only use it as a tie breaker.

For you as a student, since they are all good to excellent schools, I would advise you to put more thought on the cost of each pharmacy school. If any of them is significantly cheaper, go with that.

Thanks for your insight!

 

[njac]

What do you think is the most important factor that I should be looking at when deciding which school is the best fit for me? All three schools have good programs, and I'm having a difficult time deciding. Thanks for your help!


What are you opinions on UMN, UMich and UCDenver compared to schools in California? How are they perceived by hospitals in CA?


Thanks for your comment! It's interesting to hear that hospitals would actually look at US News rankings. What is considered a 'small' difference in ranking?
UMN is 3rd, UMich is 7th, and UCDenver is 24th.

My colleagues basically look at "top half" vs "bottom half"

Anything in the top 25 won't have issues. Any of the bigger state schools have clout. All the programs you're looking at are more gab adequate.


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[confettiflyer]

What are you opinions on UMN, UMich and UCDenver compared to schools in California? How are they perceived by hospitals in CA?

There's football at UMich...Jim Harbaugh coaches there now, so it must be good, right?

I'm not even joking, that's what I would be thinking.


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[confettiflyer]

Lol, for the lack of better ranking system. If you are looking at an unfamiliar school name, people will google it. Try google "rank pharmacy school" and see what comes up.

I didn't go to any of the three schools, but I have heard of first two's by reputation. Can't say I have heard of UCD, but 24th is leave little doubt that it's a solid school. Personally, I wouldn't put any weight on difference less than 10, even 24th is good enough that I would only use it as a tie breaker.

For you as a student, since they are all good to excellent schools, I would advise you to put more thought on the cost of each pharmacy school. If any of them is significantly cheaper, go with that.

Too bad UCD doesn't have a pharmacy school.

Great medical school though.

Hahah, see OOS people can't even get the acronyms straight...so don't even worry about it.


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[xiphoid2010]

Too bad UCD doesn't have a pharmacy school.

Great medical school though.

Hahah, see OOS people can't even get the acronyms straight...so don't even worry about it.


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LOL, exactly because most people have no clue about OOS school is why US news ranking is of some use. Compared against experience with in-state students and you see the ranks are roughly in the ball park. UT-austin vs UIW, it's like #2 vs #80 and the students clearly shows.

 

[kjann1515]

Too bad UCD doesn't have a pharmacy school.

Great medical school though.

Hahah, see OOS people can't even get the acronyms straight...so don't even worry about it.


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Haha point made.

LOL, exactly because most people have no clue about OOS school is why US news ranking is of some use. Compared against experience with in-state students and you see the ranks are roughly in the ball park. UT-austin vs UIW, it's like #2 vs #80 and the students clearly shows.

so US News rankings are used to judge the quality of students..kinda

 

[serendipity15]

I'm also from California too and am debating on whether or not I should go OOS... My biggest concern is whether or not I'll be able to come back to CA and find a job. @kjann1515, have you made your decision? Have you considered CA schools as well?

 

[jokersmiles]

Hi,

I've been accepted to UMN, UMich and University of Colorado for their Pharm.D program, and I am trying to decide which school would be the best if I'm planning on coming back to California for residency.
Or does not it matter at all?
Any comments/advices would be appreciated.
Thank you!

Whichever school is cheapest go there. The ranking of pharmacy schools have no weight in your future success. 200K+ in loans for a over saturated career is already horrible,
but wanting to go back to California is financial suicide. Whats important is keeping your debt low and having a strong alumni base to land a job somewhere, none of the
three colleges you listed are well known in California so thats a huge disadvantage already. If you want to do a residency you can do that from any school.
another reason to go to the cheapest school, clinical pharmacists make even less than retail, paying off your loans will be much harder.
California has what 15 pharmacy schools now? any graduate from any of those 15 or so schools will have an advantage over you if you are coming in from out of state.
Pharmacy is saturated all over the country, let alone California. Even if you go to a Cali school, unless you have some serious connections, avoid California at all costs.

 

[kjann1515]

I'm also from California too and am debating on whether or not I should go OOS... My biggest concern is whether or not I'll be able to come back to CA and find a job. @kjann1515, have you made your decision? Have you considered CA schools as well?

I have considered UOP and Western but I decided to attend UMich.

 

[PharmtoCS]

There are other careers such as computer programming, finance, and engineering which jobs are plentiful in California and do not require you to take out an additional $200k+ in loans. By going into pharmacy, you will most definitely have to move out of California to find work.

 

[serendipity15]

I have considered UOP and Western but I decided to attend UMich.

Oh okay! Best of luck over there

 

[epiclyjelly]

I have considered UOP and Western but I decided to attend UMich.

Hey! I got into UMich as well, what made you choose it over the other California schools? I got waitlisted at UCSF, but I'm trying to make comparisons now.

 

[serendipity15]

Hey! I got into UMich as well, what made you choose it over the other California schools? I got waitlisted at UCSF, but I'm trying to make comparisons now.

I guess I have the same question too haha. I'm looking into UC, UW, Western, and possibly USC but I haven't heard back from them yet.

 

[steveysmith54]

Pharmacy is saturated all over the country, let alone California. Even if you go to a Cali school, unless you have some serious connections, avoid California at all costs.

I am not going to pretend that I know what it's like now. However, I graduated about 5 years ago from middle of the pack school in CA, and started pharmacy school with no connections. My friends and I all worked as interns for chains approx 8 hours per week starting p2. By the time we graduated, we had jobs lined up. We all made connections from our rotations sites that we all keep in touch with even now. Going to CA school allowed me to stay CA and set up my career, thus far.

I report, you decide.. as they say

 

[jokersmiles]

I am not going to pretend that I know what it's like now. However, I graduated about 5 years ago from middle of the pack school in CA, and started pharmacy school with no connections. My friends and I all worked as interns for chains approx 8 hours per week starting p2. By the time we graduated, we had jobs lined up. We all made connections from our rotations sites that we all keep in touch with even now. Going to CA school allowed me to stay CA and set up my career, thus far.

I report, you decide.. as they say

so you graduated in 2011? well this is the entering class of 2016, they will graduate in 2020 nearly a decade after you did.
with all the new California schools opening up like Chapman, Marshall Ketchum and who knows what else, there will not be many jobs lined up for anybody.

 

[hye345]

In an attempt to provide some balance to the CA job outlook, I'll share: I went to OOS school (class of 2016), and got a (retail) job offer in CA, along with a decent number of classmates. In my case, I had ZERO pharmacy network in CA, and pretty thin retail experience. Maybe I'm just a lucky SOB, or maybe the outlook isn't that bleak yet (at least not in all parts of CA).

One major disadvantage however, is that because you won't work as an intern in CA, you won't be as prepared for the CPJE, which I'm told has a lot of questions about 'best practices' in CA pharmacy, not just following the letter of the law. AKA the kind of stuff you would pick up on if you worked in CA as a tech/intern. Certainly not insurmountable, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

 

[serendipity15]

In an attempt to provide some balance to the CA job outlook, I'll share: I went to OOS school (class of 2016), and got a (retail) job offer in CA, along with a decent number of classmates. In my case, I had ZERO pharmacy network in CA, and pretty thin retail experience. Maybe I'm just a lucky SOB, or maybe the outlook isn't that bleak yet (at least not in all parts of CA).

One major disadvantage however, is that because you won't work as an intern in CA, you won't be as prepared for the CPJE, which I'm told has a lot of questions about 'best practices' in CA pharmacy, not just following the letter of the law. AKA the kind of stuff you would pick up on if you worked in CA as a tech/intern. Certainly not insurmountable, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

Thanks for your input! I have yet to hear from OOS young pharmacists so far - most are a bit older and have gone to CA schools. I was a bit worried about not interning in CA and the CA exam and what not but I figured I just need to suck it up and do what I have to, whatever it may be. Are you from CA as well?

 

[hye345]

Thanks for your input! I have yet to hear from OOS young pharmacists so far - most are a bit older and have gone to CA schools. I was a bit worried about not interning in CA and the CA exam and what not but I figured I just need to suck it up and do what I have to, whatever it may be. Are you from CA as well?

Yup, I'm from (southern) CA. Which part are you from?

 

[jokersmiles]

In an attempt to provide some balance to the CA job outlook, I'll share: I went to OOS school (class of 2016), and got a (retail) job offer in CA, along with a decent number of classmates. In my case, I had ZERO pharmacy network in CA, and pretty thin retail experience. Maybe I'm just a lucky SOB, or maybe the outlook isn't that bleak yet (at least not in all parts of CA).

One major disadvantage however, is that because you won't work as an intern in CA, you won't be as prepared for the CPJE, which I'm told has a lot of questions about 'best practices' in CA pharmacy, not just following the letter of the law. AKA the kind of stuff you would pick up on if you worked in CA as a tech/intern. Certainly not insurmountable, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

Finding a job is not the issue, if you are persistent enough you will be able to float around multiple pharmacies. The problem is job security, pharmacists are a dime a dozen and easily replaced.

 

[hye345]

Finding a job is not the issue, if you are persistent enough you will be able to float around multiple pharmacies. The problem is job security, pharmacists are a dime a dozen and easily replaced.

Granted, some chains will make you float for a while (Walgreens immediately comes to mind). I myself got a FT staff position with CVS, as did most of my aforementioned classmates. As I understand from multiple sources, northern CA (and I mean really north, past Sacramento) is pretty desperate for people. My (future) super recently told us that he would reach out to us to talk placement and payment, and let it slip that "we are starting higher than the generic CVS offer letter states" (his words). Maybe this is a cheap ploy to keep us from jumping ship at the last moment, but if it's not, it should tell you something about our worth (or at least, our worth in specific regions).

 

[student089]

sorry for hijacking op topic. I'm too from So-Cal, and I would love to go back next year. I hate to start anew again, but how do you get job especially in San Diego? I'm ok with moving around, but I want to be back so bad.

 

[serendipity15]

Yup, I'm from (southern) CA. Which part are you from?

I'm from SoCal too! Born and raised and still here. I'm kind of sick of SoCal for the time being so that's why I'm possibly looking to go OOS for pharmacy school. :/

 

[kjann1515]

sorry for hijacking op topic. I'm too from So-Cal, and I would love to go back next year. I hate to start anew again, but how do you get job especially in San Diego? I'm ok with moving around, but I want to be back so bad.

Are you in school right now or are you working OOS?

 

[student089]

Are you in school right now or are you working OOS?

school

 

[MrBonita]

Based on new hires and residents at Kaiser Permanente. Majority were all interns that were impressive and also started as freshman interns. I have met one resident out of state and she went to University of Michigan. I would stick with that school because its a top 10 program and the football makes the school popular so you might have a chance.

 

[sdutuw4]

I am also admitted to western, UM baltimore and UColorado. I am from California as well. Still researching to decide which one will be the better choice for me. i would like to come back to cali after graduation if i choose OOS. Need your opinion.

 

[yungnaira]

I went to an OOS (c/o 2017). Currently in the application phase of moving back to CA.

This should be interesting

 

[lt23]

I would pick Western here. You'll get a chance to be intern in the inland empire where there are still some positions open and eventually get pharmacist offer.

I am also admitted to western, UM baltimore and UColorado. I am from California as well. Still researching to decide which one will be the better choice for me. i would like to come back to cali after graduation if i choose OOS. Need your opinion.

 

[mfdoom]

I am also admitted to western, UM baltimore and UColorado. I am from California as well. Still researching to decide which one will be the better choice for me. i would like to come back to cali after graduation if i choose OOS. Need your opinion.

You would get opportunities to intern and do rotations in Socal if you went to Western, but their tuition is really expensive. The other two are public schools and you would at least have a shot of getting in-state tuition after 1st year. Anecdotal, but I know plenty of people from both UMB and UC Denver who were OOS and made it back to CA for residency and jobs. Both schools have pretty solid national reputations, too.