Circumcising USA

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Should circumcision be routine in the USA?

  • Yes

    Votes: 76 38.0%
  • No

    Votes: 106 53.0%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 18 9.0%

  • Total voters
    200
What anesthesia were they using and why was it not working? That is the urgent question in those cases.

Anesthesia is not used in most cases of routine neonatal circumcision. The last numbers I saw was that it was about 25% of cases where some form was used. But no form of anesthesia in a newborn's circumcision is totally effective.

I've been researching this subject and come across studies that infants circumcised in the US have higher pain responses (hyperventilation, crying) to subsequent vaccinations.

I think it's an inexcusable, indefensible human rights violation with or without anesthesia. There's no good indication. There's no standard on which part of the foreskin and/or shaft is removed. Too many complications.

But I know opinions vary.

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I find it disturbing that 40% of people interested in an allegedly scientific profession would be in favor of such a monstrosity. Circumcision is an archaic religious tradition contrived by ancients to deprive men of sexual pleasure. Not only is it medically worthless, but performing it on babies should be a SERIOUS crime punishable by prison.
 
What you said in 2009:

Circumcision is an archaic religious tradition and any doctor who still supports it is either a fundie or a complete jackass.

And in 2013:

I find it disturbing that 40% of people interested in an allegedly scientific profession would be in favor of such a monstrosity. Circumcision is an archaic religious tradition contrived by ancients to deprive men of sexual pleasure. Not only is it medically worthless, but performing it on babies should be a SERIOUS crime punishable by prison.

Circumcision rates continue to drop. The poll is from 2008-9. Maybe another poll would find even fewer favour it.
 
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lol didn't note the age of the thread...still....
 
I find it disturbing that 40% of people interested in an allegedly scientific profession would be in favor of such a monstrosity. Circumcision is an archaic religious tradition contrived by ancients to deprive men of sexual pleasure. Not only is it medically worthless, but performing it on babies should be a SERIOUS crime punishable by prison.

monstrosity... crime... prison... these are words that describe real problems.

Relax, buddy. This is a minor, benign procedure. Feel free to not circumcise any boys you have. Feel free to advocate for parents to not circumcise their boys. When you start talking about legislating against a safe elective procedure you cross the border into loonytown.
 
monstrosity... crime... prison... these are words that describe real problems.

Relax, buddy. This is a minor, benign procedure. Feel free to not circumcise any boys you have. Feel free to advocate for parents to not circumcise their boys. When you start talking about legislating against a safe elective procedure you cross the border into loonytown.

That's the prevailing view in the USA, but not in Scandinavia:

http://www.crin.org/resources/infodetail.asp?id=31830

[30 September 2013] - At a meeting today in Oslo, the children's ombudspersons from the five Nordic countries (Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, and Iceland), and the children's spokesperson from Greenland, in addition to representatives of associations of Nordic paediatricians and pediatric surgeons, have agreed to work with their respective national governments to achieve a ban on non-therapeutic circumcision of underage boys.
 
monstrosity... crime... prison... these are words that describe real problems.

Relax, buddy. This is a minor, benign procedure. Feel free to not circumcise any boys you have. Feel free to advocate for parents to not circumcise their boys. When you start talking about legislating against a safe elective procedure you cross the border into loonytown.

Slicing off a part if an infant's anatomy is a criminal act. It's not safe.
 
Relax. Circumcision is nothing more than a quirky tradition. In medicine, and in American life, we already have enough government regulation and involvement.
 
Its quite safe. I've done dozens with no complications.

We can argue about whether its something we should do all day long, but its a safe procedure. End of discussion.

The record payout for a botched circumcision is $22.8 million. It was said at the time that the victim "will never be able to function sexually as a normal male and will require extensive reconstructive surgery and psychological counseling as well as lifelong urological care and treatment by infectious disease specialists." Try telling him that it's safe.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-03-14/news/9101230578_1_circumcision-first-child-settled

In March 2009, a jury in Atlanta awarded $1.8 million to a boy whose penis was severed in a botched circumcision five years ago. The Fulton County jury also awarded the boy's mother another $500,000.
http://www.mystateline.com/story/18...d-circumcision/d/story/q0N-akGjJ02J8pWH1Ah8Sg

July 2011 "Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Rex Heeseman will approve an expected $4.6 million settlement against Miltex Inc. and its parent company, Integra Life Sciences Holding Corp., for the case filed by Melanie Hall in February 2007."
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/07/18/boys-family-to-receive-4-6m-for-botched-circumcision/

The makers of the Mogen clamp went out of business because of lawsuits.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/26/health/la-he-circumcision-20110926

Sure, cases like that are very rare, but not as rare as you'd think. Why should they happen at all though?

Doctors in places like Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia would argue that female circumcision is safe too btw, and US doctors were still performing female circumcision up until the 1970's. We could cut other parts of the body off with "safe" operations too, but that wouldn't make them right.
 
Some studies published since this thread was started:

Frisch 2011
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/06/13/ije.dyr104.short
"Conclusions Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in women, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment."

Bronselaer et al, 2013
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2012.11761.x/abstract
"For the glans penis, circumcised men reported decreased sexual pleasure and lower orgasm intensity"

Bauer, Kriebel, 2013
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23656698
"For studies including boys born after 1995, there was a strong correlation between country-level (n = 9) autism/ASD prevalence in males and a country's circumcision rate (r = 0.98). A very similar pattern was seen among U.S. states and when comparing the 3 main racial/ethnic groups in the U.S."
 
Against my better judgement, I looked over all of these studies and have the following thoughts....

Some studies published since this thread was started:

Frisch 2011
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/06/13/ije.dyr104.short
"Conclusions Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in women, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment."

This study is done in a country where only 5% of men are circumcised. I bet the problems listed are more the result of mental issues with being in such a significant minority than with problems relating to the circumcision itself.

Bronselaer et al, 2013
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2012.11761.x/abstract
"For the glans penis, circumcised men reported decreased sexual pleasure and lower orgasm intensity"

Online survery, please.

Bauer, Kriebel, 2013
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23656698
"For studies including boys born after 1995, there was a strong correlation between country-level (n = 9) autism/ASD prevalence in males and a country's circumcision rate (r = 0.98). A very similar pattern was seen among U.S. states and when comparing the 3 main racial/ethnic groups in the U.S."

The study even says that the authors think this is a result of using tylenol post-circumcision, not the circumcision itself. Try again.
 
The record payout for a botched circumcision is $22.8 million. It was said at the time that the victim "will never be able to function sexually as a normal male and will require extensive reconstructive surgery and psychological counseling as well as lifelong urological care and treatment by infectious disease specialists." Try telling him that it's safe.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-03-14/news/9101230578_1_circumcision-first-child-settled

In March 2009, a jury in Atlanta awarded $1.8 million to a boy whose penis was severed in a botched circumcision five years ago. The Fulton County jury also awarded the boy's mother another $500,000.
http://www.mystateline.com/story/18...d-circumcision/d/story/q0N-akGjJ02J8pWH1Ah8Sg

July 2011 "Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Rex Heeseman will approve an expected $4.6 million settlement against Miltex Inc. and its parent company, Integra Life Sciences Holding Corp., for the case filed by Melanie Hall in February 2007."
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/07/18/boys-family-to-receive-4-6m-for-botched-circumcision/

The makers of the Mogen clamp went out of business because of lawsuits.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/26/health/la-he-circumcision-20110926

Sure, cases like that are very rare, but not as rare as you'd think. Why should they happen at all though?

Doctors in places like Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia would argue that female circumcision is safe too btw, and US doctors were still performing female circumcision up until the 1970's. We could cut other parts of the body off with "safe" operations too, but that wouldn't make them right.

In order...


1. Burned Penis - How does that even happen? I've never used anything anywhere near a circumcision that could burn a penis.

2. Amputated Penis - Again, how does that even happen? This speaks to MD utter incompetence.

3. Defective Clamp - I've used a Mogan before, though I prefer Gomco, and it very much has a protective mechanism built in.
 
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Against my better judgement, I looked over all of these studies and have the following thoughts....

Why would you be reluctant to look at peer-reviewed papers that might suggest possible drawbacks to circumcision?

This study is done in a country where only 5% of men are circumcised. I bet the problems listed are more the result of mental issues with being in such a significant minority than with problems relating to the circumcision itself.

There are issues with this study, but I think it's alarming that you're so willing to attribute the problems to "mental issues". Isn't it at least possible that the problems are due to surgery on their genitals?

Online survey, please.

There are issues with online surveys, but you're far more likely to get people to participate, and arguably more likely to get them to be honest.

The study even says that the authors think this is a result of using tylenol post-circumcision, not the circumcision itself. Try again.

It's far from certain that the correlation is due to Tylenol (or something else) rather than the circumcision, but the newborn boys obviously wouldn't have had the Tylenol without the circumcision.
 
In order...

1. Burned Penis - How does that even happen? I've never used anything anywhere near a circumcision that could burn a penis.

2. Amputated Penis - Again, how does that even happen? This speaks to MD utter incompetence.

3. Defective Clamp - I've used a Mogan before, though I prefer Gomco, and it very much has a protective mechanism built in.

Even if these incidents were due to incompetence, they wouldn't have happened had there been no circumcision.

Here's a public health notice issued by the FDA titled "Potential for Injury from Circumcision Clamps". It does say "This is an archived document and is no longer current information.", but clearly there have been problems with Gomco clamps too.

http://www.fda.gov/medicaldevices/safety/alertsandnotices/publichealthnotifications/ucm062279.htm
This letter is to alert you to the potential for injury from two commonly used circumcision clamps, the Gomco®/gomco-type and Mogen®/mogen-type clamps. Both are widely used during circumcision to remove the foreskin while protecting the glans penis.

Although research suggests that circumcision is generally a safe procedure, we are concerned that some serious device-related complications have occurred. We received 105 reports of injuries involving circumcision clamps between July 1996 and January 20001. These have included laceration, hemorrhage, penile amputation, and urethral damage.
...
The use of Gomco® and gomco-type clamps that have been reassembled by users with parts from different manufacturers, or that have bent parts or mismatched components, has led to clamps breaking, slipping, falling off during use, tearing penile tissue or failing to make a tight seal. Please note that although Gomco® and gomco-type clamps may appear to have interchangeable parts, these parts may not always be safely interchanged because they may vary slightly in dimensions.


This is a follow-up:
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/psn/printer.cfm?id=92 (May 2002)
"In 2000, we issued a warning about the potential for serious injury to patients from circumcision clamps. We were receiving about 20 injury reports per year, including laceration, hemorrhage, urethral damage and penile amputation. We're glad to tell you that the number of reports has gone down since we issued the warning, but they continue to come in, and the injuries, rare as they are, continue to be serious. And so we want to remind you about the steps you can take to avoid these injuries."
 
Even if these incidents were due to incompetence, they wouldn't have happened had there been no circumcision.

Here's a public health notice issued by the FDA titled "Potential for Injury from Circumcision Clamps". It does say "This is an archived document and is no longer current information.", but clearly there have been problems with Gomco clamps too.

http://www.fda.gov/medicaldevices/safety/alertsandnotices/publichealthnotifications/ucm062279.htm
This letter is to alert you to the potential for injury from two commonly used circumcision clamps, the Gomco®/gomco-type and Mogen®/mogen-type clamps. Both are widely used during circumcision to remove the foreskin while protecting the glans penis.

Although research suggests that circumcision is generally a safe procedure, we are concerned that some serious device-related complications have occurred. We received 105 reports of injuries involving circumcision clamps between July 1996 and January 20001. These have included laceration, hemorrhage, penile amputation, and urethral damage.
...
The use of Gomco® and gomco-type clamps that have been reassembled by users with parts from different manufacturers, or that have bent parts or mismatched components, has led to clamps breaking, slipping, falling off during use, tearing penile tissue or failing to make a tight seal. Please note that although Gomco® and gomco-type clamps may appear to have interchangeable parts, these parts may not always be safely interchanged because they may vary slightly in dimensions.


This is a follow-up:
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/psn/printer.cfm?id=92 (May 2002)
"In 2000, we issued a warning about the potential for serious injury to patients from circumcision clamps. We were receiving about 20 injury reports per year, including laceration, hemorrhage, urethral damage and penile amputation. We're glad to tell you that the number of reports has gone down since we issued the warning, but they continue to come in, and the injuries, rare as they are, continue to be serious. And so we want to remind you about the steps you can take to avoid these injuries."

105 incidents in a 5 year period? Seriously? I would bet that's less than .001%. And, if we read further, most of those seems to be when people use damaged clamps or parts from different clamps. That's why anyone doing any type of procedure knows to inspect your tools before you start.
 
Why would you be reluctant to look at peer-reviewed papers that might suggest possible drawbacks to circumcision?



There are issues with this study, but I think it's alarming that you're so willing to attribute the problems to "mental issues". Isn't it at least possible that the problems are due to surgery on their genitals?



There are issues with online surveys, but you're far more likely to get people to participate, and arguably more likely to get them to be honest.



It's far from certain that the correlation is due to Tylenol (or something else) rather than the circumcision, but the newborn boys obviously wouldn't have had the Tylenol without the circumcision.

I don't give tylenol to my circumcision patients. I don't know why anyone would as its not a good idea to give tylenol to infants that young.

Something that has always bothered me about surveys about sexual function with circumcision... what are these guys comparing their sex lives to? How do they know they're not having as good a sex as their buddies? That's why I made the comment about mental issues. You have a group of men who are in the very small minority in this country, who are different in a very personal way. It is not a stretch whatsoever to think that this has affected their mindset when it comes to sex. This is doubly true when you consider that their partners are likely to have some reaction to a circumcized penis since 95% of the men there aren't.
 
I don't give tylenol to my circumcision patients. I don't know why anyone would as its not a good idea to give tylenol to infants that young.

Do you give anything? Tylenol is the AAP's only suggestion for post-operative circumcision pain relief in infants.


Its quite safe. I've done dozens with no complications.

We can argue about whether its something we should do all day long, but its a safe procedure. End of discussion.

This WHO document talks about the risks of neonatal circumcision:

Table 7.2. Potential complications of the three most commonly used infant male circumcision devices (p 51)

It also has graphic pictures of botched jobs (p57 Mogen, p66 Gomco, pp73-75 Plastibell). Your first reaction as a physician might be to roll your eyes at the incompetence of those responsible, but put yourself in the patient's position. Would you really want to run the risk of something like that happening to your genitals for an elective operation?
 
Do you give anything? Tylenol is the AAP's only suggestion for post-operative circumcision pain relief in infants.




This WHO document talks about the risks of neonatal circumcision:

Table 7.2. Potential complications of the three most commonly used infant male circumcision devices (p 51)

It also has graphic pictures of botched jobs (p57 Mogen, p66 Gomco, pp73-75 Plastibell). Your first reaction as a physician might be to roll your eyes at the incompetence of those responsible, but put yourself in the patient's position. Would you really want to run the risk of something like that happening to your genitals for an elective operation?

I've never had any post-circ patients with any problems after the day of, and on the day of they're usually just sleepy for about 4 hours after a little fussy the rest of the day - but even that isn't always. By the next day, they've all gone back to normal.

I'll just throw this out there - I am circumsized, and would do it again. I'm glad my parents had it done. I might not if I had the option of doing it at my current age, but its well established that the older you are the rougher the recovery is.
 
The real problem of anti-circ fanatics is the utter indifference of the vast majority of us to their outrage. Would I circumsize my son? No; I see no reason to slice off a healthy body part. But is it a horrifying injustice? Circumsized d*cks seem to work just fine, propagating millions of sons who are then circumsized.
 
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I just can't stand those Facebook pictures floating around of an obviously old circumcision procedure with a poster ususally stating "I'm glad I didn't do this to my son".
 
I honestly think that even though it is made out to be healthy, I think it shouldn't be done until the human can make their own decision! It's their body, and THEY have to live with it ALWAYS being circumcised, or let him grow up and learn more about the benefits of having it circumcised or not circumcised and then they can make that decision. Is there a benefit to having it done at such a young age over the old pro athletes that get it done later due to injuries?!
 
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Is there a benefit to having it done at such a young age over the old pro athletes that get it done later due to injuries?!

Several:

1) Almost all of the medical benefits of circumcision (with the exception of decreased HIV transmission rate) are due to the fact that children under the age of 1 can't retract their foreskins to clean their glans penis. The increased rate of foreskin infections and urinary tract infections goes away after the foreskin can retract over the head of the penis, so if you wit to do it as an adult you lose almost all of the medical benefits.

2) The medical risks of adult circumcision are much greater. Its a sedated procedure so you have the risks of anesthesia, where newborn circumcision is done under local anesthesia (like when you get lidocaine at the dentist) which caries no significant risk. The infection and complication rates are also significantly higher.

3) The cost is drastically higher in an adult. You can circumcise a newborn for $250-500 as a part of their routine newborn hospital care, or in an outpatient Pediatric clinc. An adult circumcision means a multi-day stay in the hospital and an appointment in the OR with a urologist which will run you a conservative 10K, if not more.

You can decide if that is or is not enough of a difference to make it worth performing a circumcision on a child who cannot consent for themselves, but there definitely are good medical reasons to get it done early if you know you're going to do it.
 
Several:

1) Almost all of the medical benefits of circumcision (with the exception of decreased HIV transmission rate) are due to the fact that children under the age of 1 can't retract their foreskins to clean their glans penis. The increased rate of foreskin infections and urinary tract infections goes away after the foreskin can retract over the head of the penis, so if you wit to do it as an adult you lose almost all of the medical benefits.

2) The medical risks of adult circumcision are much greater. Its a sedated procedure so you have the risks of anesthesia, where newborn circumcision is done under local anesthesia (like when you get lidocaine at the dentist) which caries no significant risk. The infection and complication rates are also significantly higher.

3) The cost is drastically higher in an adult. You can circumcise a newborn for $250-500 as a part of their routine newborn hospital care, or in an outpatient Pediatric clinc. An adult circumcision means a multi-day stay in the hospital and an appointment in the OR with a urologist which will run you a conservative 10K, if not more.

You can decide if that is or is not enough of a difference to make it worth performing a circumcision on a child who cannot consent for themselves, but there definitely are good medical reasons to get it done early if you know you're going to do it.

That's a very American view. Of all the world's circumcised men, only about 10% were circumcised as infants. Other countries do it much later. If you want it done on the NHS in Scotland, you have to wait six months, and in Switzerland they make you wait two years.

I'm highly skeptical of the medical benefits of male circumcision anyway, as are most European medical organizations, but even if I were expecting a son and somehow knew for a fact that he would need to be circumcised at some point, I wouldn't have it done to him as a baby.

The only reason general anesthesia isn't used for neonates is because it's not safe. That alone would be an argument to wait.
Other reasons not to circumcise babies:
The foreskin has to be separated from the glans (the most painful part). If you wait, it separates naturally, usually by around puberty.
The post-operative pain will also be worse, and the wound will be in a diaper which is primarily there to contain urine and feces.
The risk of major injury or death is higher, since you're working with something smaller. The record payout for a botched circumcision is $22.8 million. It was said at the time that the victim "will never be able to function sexually as a normal male and will require extensive reconstructive surgery and psychological counseling as well as lifelong urological care and treatment by infectious disease specialists." Sure, cases like that are very rare, but why should they happen at all?
A newborn can die of blood loss after losing about three tablespoons of blood - way less than will be absorbed by a modern diaper.
There is a 5-10% risk of a revision (effectively a second circumcision) after neonatal circumcision, versus almost a zero rate for juvenile or adult circumcision. The revision rate is going up btw, though the reasons for that aren't clear.
Babies don't have much of an immune system. At least one baby died after circumcision in New York after being infected with the coldsore virus for instance, and another got brain damage.
It's almost exclusively males circumcised as infants that get meatal stenosis.
The child can't give informed consent, and some men out there who are seriously unhappy about having parts of their genitals cut off. It's *his* body, so why shouldn't it be his decision?
"For studies including boys born after 1995, there was a strong correlation between country-level (n=9) autism/ASD prevalence in males and a country's circumcision rate (r=0.98). A very similar pattern was seen among U.S. states and when comparing the 3 main racial/ethnic groups in the U.S."
Bauer, Kriebel, 2013 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23656698
(the authors speculate that this may be due to paracetamol, but this seems unclear)

All of the really bad botched jobs I'm aware of were infant circumcisions. This might be partly because the people doing it often aren't surgeons:
http://journals.sfu.ca/cuaj/index.php/journal/article/view/200

"RESULTS: The overall response rate to the survey was 76%. From those, 85% were Family Doctors and Pediatricians, while the remaining 15% were Pediatric General Surgeons and Urologists. The circumcisions were carried out with the Gomco clamp and the plastibell at a rate of 62•5% and 37•5%, respectively. No surveyed-physician admitted to learning the procedure through a structured training course. 43% of the non-surgeons learned to perform a circumcision from a non-surgeon colleague. 31% of the participants were happy to perform a circumcision in a child born with a concealed penis, where circumcision is contraindicated.

With respect to the early complications post-circumcision, 100% of the surgeons vs. 63% of non-surgeons felt comfortable dealing with bleeding (p=0.046). 87.5% of the surgeons vs. 35% of non-surgeons were comfortable in dealing with urinary retention (p=0•01). 100% of surgeons vs. 53% of the non-surgeons were comfortable in dealing with a wound dehiscence (p=0•02). Moreover, 75% of the surgeons and ten percent of the non-surgeons were comfortable managing meatal stenosis (p<0•01). 62% of the surgeons vs. 36% of the non-surgeons were confident in dealing with a trapped penis post-circumcision (p=0•24).

CONCLUSIONS: Our survey findings indicate that the majority of physicians performing neonatal circumcisions in our community have received informal and unstructured training. This lack of formal instruction may help explain the complications and unsatisfactory results witnessed in our pediatric urology practice. Many practitioners do not seem to be aware of cases where neonatal circumcision is contraindicated and most non-surgeons performing this procedure are unable to look after common post-surgical complications."

My suspicion is that the push to circumcise early is largely because of the dollars involved. As one person put it, "it's like every baby boy is born with a coupon for $300 at the end of his penis, and the first person to cut it off gets the money".
 
Relax, buddy. This is a minor, benign procedure. Feel free to not circumcise any boys you have. Feel free to advocate for parents to not circumcise their boys. When you start talking about legislating against a safe elective procedure you cross the border into loonytown.

Good going dude:

http://www.chathamthisweek.com/2015...ctor-persuades-parents-to-get-him-circumcised

Ontario newborn bleeds to death after family doctor persuades parents to get him circumcised

TORONTO — An Ontario doctor has been cautioned after a 22-day-old baby bled to death from a circumcision gone horribly wrong, underscoring the heated debate over a simple yet contentious procedure.

Another physician involved in the case was urged by a medical governing body to be “mindful” of the operation’s dangers.

But Ryan Heydari’s parents say the regulators who handled their complaints have shed little light on what led to Ryan’s death – or how to prevent similar tragedies in future.

They say they did not even want the newborn circumcised — a view in line with longstanding recommendations from the Canadian Pediatric Society — but were persuaded to do so by a family physician.

“We are so shocked that we will not have an answer to bring us some peace for our broken hearts, to prevent other cruel deaths like Ryan’s and to ensure that doctors take proper care of their patients,” mother Homa Ahmadi told the National Post.

In fact, the case only became public because the couple appealed the original Ontario College of Physician and Surgeons rulings, which were rendered in secret.

An appeal tribunal upheld this month a decision by the College to caution the doctor who saw Ryan in the emergency department hours after his circumcision, his diaper stained red with blood.

The Health Professions Appeal and Review Board also confirmed the college’s separate advice to the pediatrician who conducted the procedure to be aware of its potential hazards, and document his efforts to get informed consent.

The pediatric society said in a recent report that death from bleeding caused by circumcision is “extremely rare,” though it’s not completely unheard of. A five-week-old B.C. baby bled to death after being circumcised in 2003.

Ahmadi gave birth on Jan. 3, 2013 to a boy who loved attention, cried relatively little and seemed to actually smile. “He gave us the most amazing moments of our life,” says Ryan’s mother.

She and husband John Heydari, who immigrated from Iran about 12 years ago, opposed having him circumcised, convinced that “mother nature created us the way she intended us to be.”

But their family physician persuaded them it was a good idea for medical reasons, despite contrary advice from pediatric specialists.

Once carried out on most Canadian boys and still common as a religious rite for Jews and Muslims, circumcision has generally fallen in popularity, rates hovering around 32%.

The pediatric society has long held that its risks – including pain to a small baby, bleeding and the chance of disfigurement of the penis – outweigh its benefits.

The group revisited the issue with a report just last month that addressed growing evidence circumcision helps prevent sexually transmitted disease, acting almost like a vaccine in countries with high rates of HIV.

Circumcised boys are also less likely to suffer urinary-tract infections and to develop rare penile cancer later in life, the society says.

But its report still recommended against routine circumcision of every newborn male, saying that it may make sense in certain cases. For those who have the procedure, “close follow-up in the early post-circumcision time period is critical,” the society warns.

One urologist says he has encountered a few cases where circumcised babies had to undergo transfusions because of dangerous bleeding, and sees less-serious complications routinely.

Dr. Jorge DeMaria of Hamilton’s McMaster University believes regulators should require doctors to prove they have undergone proper training before doing circumcisions. He also questions circumcising newborns for preventive-health reasons, in a country with low levels of HIV and wide availability of condoms.

“In our setting, in North America, really it’s not necessary.”

Ahmadi says she and her husband knew almost immediately after their son’s procedure that something was seriously wrong.

The previously unfussy baby “was crying so much, so hard, and he wouldn’t stop,” she recalled in written answers to questions. “He was bleeding, and it only got worse over just hours … It was so obvious from the blood his tiny body had lost that he was in danger.”

The pediatrician who did the circumcision told the College he conducts many of them, that Ryan’s was uneventful and there was no bleeding when he checked the dressing before the family left.

The parents called about bleeding later that day, though, and he advised them to take Ryan to Toronto’s North York General Hospital, which they did.

“We … waited for care that could have saved his life, but that level of care never came,” says Ahmadi.

A sparse outline in the board’s decision says Ryan was eventually transferred to Sick Kids hospital, but died there seven days later. Pathologists said he succumbed to “hypovolemic shock” caused by bleeding from the circumcision, which emptied his body of 35% to 40% of its blood.

The doctor at North York General — whose name has been withheld according to College policy — was cautioned for failing to recognize the seriousness of the boy’s condition or treating “compensated shock” – the first stage of the condition.

But the process left the family little further ahead in fathoming how Ryan could have died, said Brian Moher, their lawyer.

“My clients felt that there was a big gap in what the College had done with the investigations, essentially missing the point around the infant’s death.”

The devastated parents, meanwhile, have not had other children.

“The loss of Ryan, our only child, has made us realize that we can’t possess anything, even our hopes and dreams,” Ahmadi says. “We hope that this never happens to any other baby.”


 
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I have been doing ICP and ED therapy on a cash basis for 5 years. When it comes to premature ejaculation (PE), there MAY be a slightly decreased incidence in circumcised vs. uncircumcised based on my anecdotal observations. Us ICP practitioners often speak about this, but there are so many confounding factors that it is hard to decipher clear correlation. The theory is that boys that are circumcised get a more frequent nerve stimulation due to exposed glans. As far as I know I have not heard any firm data on this though.

Reduction of STD, and especially HIV is also very controversial. Plenty confounding factors again, from cultural norms to locations and it does not quite make sense.

*Higher prevalence of HIV in USA than Northern Europe (with VERY little circumcision).

*How were the studies done in Africa? Did circumcised patients start "behaving" more sound? There is no way to
do a blind or double blind here, so studies will not be of good quality.

*Circumcision, MAY increase risk of catching HIV, if you already have a penile infection of any kind.

*any risk reduction of 50% is still not solving any problems. People doing sex of high-risk type (sodomy), and IVDA will still be at super-high risk and we could create an initial small effect, followed by a false sense of security, increasing high-risk behavior and actually worsening AIDS secondarily.

Anyone who desperately wants to make any issue a non-issue cares too much about the issue being discussed to begin with.
 
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