Choosing Between Two Medical Schools

[Ltl Ducky]

Hello,

I am putting a question out to individuals who have already chosen a school and perhaps started their residencies or are past that.

I am a non-trad pre-med student. I got accepted to a few medical schools and have narrowed my list of possibilities down to two schools based on my experiences and knowledge of the schools: University of Michigan and Ohio State University. I like both of their missions, class schedule, study slot for step 1 study, P/F curriculum, and general environment equally well. Both really impressed me on how involved and happy current students were.

On the other hand University of Michigan has much better match rates/placements and rankings, and I think U of Michigan would have slightly more intensive care/surgical opportunities (both things I believe I may want to go into as a physician). I am confident that I am not interested in primary care as it does not really fit my personality. Also University of Michigan has burn unit and a larger transplant program.

However, U of Michigan will not let students switch to instate residency when Ohio State University will. All in all the tuition for four years is about $196,000 for U of Michigan and $125,000 for Ohio State (~73,000). How much is a bigger name and better match rates worth for someone looking to apply to more competitive residency programs? Is it worth the ~$73,000 more it will cost me?

Additional Information: I looked at other expenses and living costs for both schools, and they are approximately equal. I am an average applicant for U of Michigan so I am unlikely to get a scholarship here. I am an above average Ohio State Applicant so there is the possibility I will get a scholarship. I am very unlikely to get any government financial aid as both my husband and I have been working for a few years and have saved during that time.

Thanks for any input. I just don't know if a bigger name and slightly better experiences are worth the additional cost. Sorry my post is a bit long; I just wanted to get all of the information across. I am a bit torn as I am unsure if I should go with the more affordable school.

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[Psai]

Changed my mind, I would pick u mich

 

[operaman]

No easy answers i'm afraid. Personally, while $73k is a lot of money, I don't think it's enough to sway my decision. Now, if someone starts coughing up more money... I would also consider your husband's career/earning potential at each place as that too might influence my decision were I in your shoes.

As far as residency, I think the difference in names would be negligible. I'm coming from a mid tier school and have been interviewing at the top programs in a very competitive field. My experience (n=1) has been that it's the names of the people writing your letters more than the name of the institution. Had I gone to a top 10 school, I would be interviewing at the exact same places. Both schools you're looking at will have big names in most every field so you would be able to get great letters at both. Both will have great research opportunities for motivated students. I really don't think you can go wrong.

Barring additional money, I would personally just go with my gestalt. From your post it sounds like U Mich may be where you're leaning. If so, go for it and congrats!

 

[Entadus]

Those are both great schools, so this really is a no-brainer: choose the cheaper school!!

73K is a big difference, especially at the high interest rate you will be paying (after interest during med school and residency the difference will be greater than that). Also, your interest payments will be much higher if you go to Michigan, meaning your payments as a resident and attending will be paying the principle down at a slower rate.

Notice point number one:
http://www.theherocomplex.com/top-8-financial-moves-to-make-as-a-pre-med-or-medical-student/

 

[Porfirio]

I would go with the cheapest school.

Call Michigan and see if they will match the cost by giving you a scholarship. You have nothing to lose.

Also, make sure you look at the school's 3rd year clerkship locations.

 

[Ltl Ducky]

Thanks for all of your replies and good information. 3rd year rotations for U of Michigan are close in Ann Arbor or Detroit as I understand it. I will have to keep contemplating.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Save the cash, go OSU and be a shining star in your class.

 

[Slack3r]

If you are interested in surgery Id say Michigan hands down. Their students have been superstar applicants the past few years and apparently have tremendous resources/support from the surgery department

Just to play Devils advocate to the follow the money crowd...

I would also go for Michigan. As someone contemplating pursuing a surgical subspecialty without a home department, it would be nice to have a powerhouse academic name right about now. There really aren't any surgical fields at UM that aren't well respected.

 

[Ltl Ducky]

Thanks again for the information. This thread is much like my torn mind

 

[Winged Scapula]

I agree with my two colleagues above: University of Michigan has an excellent, powerhouse reputation in surgery and critical care. That will open a lot of doors for you even if you end up choosing another field.

In the grand scheme of things 73,000 is a small price to pay for where that can take you.

 

[ortnakas]

I am very unlikely to get any government financial aid as both my husband and I have been working for a few years and have saved during that time. I am 26 years old and am currently an Idaho Resident.

Government "free" aid might be need-based, but the run-of-the-mill government loans are not. I'd be surprised if you weren't eligible for federal loans. I'm not sure which kind of financial aid you were talking about, or if that would affect your decision.

 

[bweild]

Government "free" aid might be need-based, but the run-of-the-mill government loans are not. I'd be surprised if you weren't eligible for federal loans. I'm not sure which kind of financial aid you were talking about, or if that would affect your decision.

I think she might be talking about institutional need-based grants as opposed to federal loans. Without going back to my interview day notes, I believe just over half of all incoming UMich students receive either some form of institutional aid (i.e. need-based grants or scholarships). @Ltl Ducky, you say you are an "average applicant," by which I assume you mean your stats are average for UMich acceptees, but you were admitted in their first wave, which makes me think that in their mind, you are a student they want! So I wouldn't count yourself out just yet. Michigan is also unusually candid in that they freely admit that they use grants/scholies as incentives to attract students. You might also be able to leverage that acceptance at Ohio State as someone said above.

I think you'll have to wait and see what comes your way in March when financial aid packages come out from both schools. If it's a landslide financially in one direction, I would make my decision based on the money (I'm a 31 non-trad in a very similar boat as you re choosing between schools and balancing finances v fit). Otherwise, if it's close (plot out the monthly payments using the AAMC loan calculator and decide what "close" means for you), go with UMich.

 

[breakintheroof]

Thanks again for the information. This thread is much like my torn mind

Hi @Ltl Ducky and congrats on the acceptances! If I remember right, you were also accepted at Pritzker. I'm curious as to how you ruled it out, if you don't mind sharing!

 

[Ltl Ducky]

Hi @Ltl Ducky and congrats on the acceptances! If I remember right, you were also accepted at Pritzker. I'm curious as to how you ruled it out, if you don't mind sharing!

Hmmm hard question. I am still holding an acceptance at Pritzker, but the school is more expensive than either U of Michigan and Ohio State.

Further, Chicago is also a city, and therefore decently expensive to live in. In the south side I would probably even want to live in a more expensive part for safety. So I haven't completely taken Pritzker off, but unless they give me a substantial scholarship it would end up likely costing me 150 k between increased tuition and living costs at the minimum. I heard that Pritzker has also handed out their big merit based scholarships when they offered acceptances.

In short, its a possibility, but a small one. Unless I get a crazy scholarship.

 

[bweild]

In short, its a possibility, but a small one. Unless I get a crazy scholarship.

If you're genuinely interested in possibly attending then I would hold on to that Pritzker acceptance in the meantime. As I understand it, everyone shows their cards so to speak in March when all the schools can see where applicants are holding acceptances. This is when schools decide how much they want you, it's when applicants start withdrawing from schools in large numbers (and previously awarded scholarship money suddenly becomes available).

 

[Deranged Medic]

@Ltl Ducky come to Buckeye land! Our football team is better than TTUN's!

Good luck with your decision. I had to make one as well, but it was much easier than yours, since I picked the school closest to my friends and family.

 

[joker2400]

I would also pick UMich despite the price difference.

 

[bc65]

I would definitely choose Michigan.

In most cases, where you go to medical school doesn't really matter. However, Michigan is truly a top school, the equal of any medical school the quality of residencies and overall reputation. If the other school offered a full scholarship, I might consider going there. But $73,000 is a trivial difference, even with interest, especially considering that you will be repaying the loan in inflated dollars, not to mention the possibilities of loan forgiveness programs. As others suggested, you might be able to get a substantial scholarship from one school or the other. If Ohio State offers a better scholarship, then you might want to come back here and have us reconsider. But as I see it, the cost difference is essentially non-existent, so with all else being equal, you should definitely go to Michigan.

 

[Slack3r]

I would again plug UMich > Pritzker, especially if you had even an iota of interest in surgery.

 

[Willy38]

I would again plug UMich > Pritzker, especially if you had even an iota of interest in surgery.

Strictly because of a better home surgery program ? I'm interested in possibly doing surgery as well. I'm sure its a continuum but what are considered the "powerhouse programs"?

 

[usmd01]

Cheapest school always. Bonus: this is usually the less fancy school, so it's generally easier to stand out!

 

[Ltl Ducky]

I would definitely choose Michigan.

In most cases, where you go to medical school doesn't really matter. However, Michigan is truly a top school, the equal of any medical school the quality of residencies and overall reputation. If the other school offered a full scholarship, I might consider going there. But $73,000 is a trivial difference, even with interest, especially considering that you will be repaying the loan in inflated dollars, not to mention the possibilities of loan forgiveness programs. As others suggested, you might be able to get a substantial scholarship from one school or the other. If Ohio State offers a better scholarship, then you might want to come back here and have us reconsider. But as I see it, the cost difference is essentially non-existent, so with all else being equal, you should definitely go to Michigan.

Score 1 for inflation

 

[usmd01]

One of the most common fallacies you see on SDN is that it will be easy to be the big fish in the small pond. Turns out there are a lot of big fish in all the ponds.

It's easy at my school!

 

[Stagg737]

I considered 2 major things in my choice for schools. 1) Where am I going to feel comfortable/happy spending the next 4 years of my life? If you're not happy where you're at, you'll both be miserable and not do as well because of it. 2) Which school is going to give you the better chance of taking you where you want to go? Self explanatory.

Some other factors to consider for the financial aspect. Keep in mind that if you take out fed loans that 73k can easily turn into 150k or more if you can't pay them down quickly, which I don't consider to be trivial as some other people here do (since when is a full year salary for some people trivial?). However, if you end up getting into a higher paid specialty because you went to the more expensive school, the ROI in the long run may be much better. In other words, I wouldn't allow money to be your major deciding factor unless all other major factors are equal, that's just me though.

 

[cbrons]

Go to the cheaper one imo.

 

[cbrons]

Hmmm hard question. I am still holding an acceptance at Pritzker, but the school is more expensive than either U of Michigan and Ohio State.

Further, Chicago is also a city, and therefore decently expensive to live in. In the south side I would probably even want to live in a more expensive part for safety. So I haven't completely taken Pritzker off, but unless they give me a substantial scholarship it would end up likely costing me 150 k between increased tuition and living costs at the minimum. I heard that Pritzker has also handed out their big merit based scholarships when they offered acceptances.

In short, its a possibility, but a small one. Unless I get a crazy scholarship.

Pritzker is an excellent school but the city of Chicago is truly an awful place to live. Expensive like you wouldnt believe, incredibly dangerous in some areas, very dirty, traffic and parking a complete nightmare, etc. Not a good place at all for a family, and this is coming from someone who grew up there.

 

[Entadus]

I would definitely choose Michigan.

In most cases, where you go to medical school doesn't really matter. However, Michigan is truly a top school, the equal of any medical school the quality of residencies and overall reputation. If the other school offered a full scholarship, I might consider going there. But $73,000 is a trivial difference, even with interest, especially considering that you will be repaying the loan in inflated dollars, not to mention the possibilities of loan forgiveness programs. As others suggested, you might be able to get a substantial scholarship from one school or the other. If Ohio State offers a better scholarship, then you might want to come back here and have us reconsider. But as I see it, the cost difference is essentially non-existent, so with all else being equal, you should definitely go to Michigan.

And how many tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loans have you paid back?

The level of financial disconnect in this thread is unreal. OP is already talking about going under $125K going to Ohio State, and you're saying $196k is trivial? This would balloon to upwards of $300,000 after residency is said and done. The opportunity cost of not investing the difference will have OP reeling for years to come.

At the end of the day it's a personal decision, but for me the idea of that level of debt makes me sick

 

[Psai]

And how many tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loans have you paid back?

The level of financial disconnect in this thread is unreal. OP is already talking about going under $125K going to Ohio State, and you're saying $196k is trivial? This would balloon to upwards of $300,000 after residency is said and done. The opportunity cost of not investing the difference will have OP reeling for years to come.

At the end of the day it's a personal decision, but for me the idea of that level of debt makes me sick

It could mean the difference between matching a competitive specialty or not which could end up easily exceeding the amount of investment.

 

[LoveIR]

From a purely logical and financial standpoint, if you want to go into a field that's not very competitive (and less remunerative), choose the cheaper option. If you want to go into something insanely competitive (and lucrative) like plastic surgery in southern California, you'll need every advantage and you should choose Michigan.

But really, it should come down to this: where do you think you'll be happier? Because if you are happy and love being at that school, you'll work harder and have more success.

 

[Heplayer92]

As a biased Ann Arbor native and Michigan undergrad, you will love Ann Arbor. You get both the city and small-town feel. Michigan is also a top 10 medical school, and they heavily favor their own students for residencies. Yes, our football program is struggling, but our healthcare system is still top notch.

From an unbiased standpoint, if possible, I would go to both second look days and get a better feel then. Congrats on all of your success this cycle, deciding between schools is a great problem to have =).

ALSO, if time is not an issue, I would even look into deferring for a year to gain in-state residency. I know in years past they have offered significant money (n=1, but a friend got $60k) to defer for a year because they overaccepted. I know that this year they are trying to reduce the number of people they are accepting to avoid the problem, but who knows. =)

 

[operaman]

I think a lot of the financial discussions fail to take into account the intangibles of human nature. It's really easy to make a spreadsheet and compute all the numbers and there's a value in doing this, but it needs to be tempered with humanity unless the game is simply trying to die with as much money in the bank as possible. Medicine is an especially difficult field to apply these metrics to. I know guys who went to no-name schools and no-name residencies making $1.5-2 million a year while I also know top 10 grads making a small fraction of that, especially in academics. Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to have enough foresight as a pre-med to know where you will end up and, by extension, what the best choices are at the outset. As such, it seems best to err on the side of the choices that leave the most opportunities open.

So go with your gut.

 

[bc65]

The level of financial disconnect in this thread is unreal. OP is already talking about going under $125K going to Ohio State, and you're saying $196k is trivial? This would balloon to upwards of $300,000 after residency is said and done

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say that the total amount was trivial. I said that the difference in tuition between the two schools , $73,000, was trivial. You want to talk about opportunity costs? How about the opportunity cost of not getting into the specialty that you want, or the program that you want, or the city that you want? OP is married, so her flexibility will be limited later. The more comptetitive she is, the more likely she won't have to settle for a residency in a field, a city, a location she doesn't want. It might even be the difference between staying married or getting divorced.

( At the risk of contradicting myself, I am confident that where you go to med school will make little difference. You can get into any residency from any med school. But if you have the choice, and the cost is, yes, trivial, I definitely would go to Michigan. It ranks up there with Harvard and Yale in terms of reputation and quality, so why not go if you can?)

I do give you credit for considering opportunity costs and interest, but I stand by my previous recommendation.
You are correct to worry about paying back your loans, but that attitude seems to lead to poor decisions on the part of med students. I see people wanting to enter the military to get free tuition, but the salary you give up is worth more than the tuition you get. I see people taking a year to work to save money for med school, thus earning $20,000 and giving up a year of physician salary at $250,000- 600,000.

ALSO, if time is not an issue, I would even look into deferring for a year to gain in-state residency. I know in years past they have offered significant money (n=1, but a friend got $60k) to defer for a year because they overaccepted

Nice thought, but another example of a bad financial decision. You will get $60,000 now, but your career will be cut short by that year, thus costing you a year of your peak earnings, anywhere from $250,000 to $600,000. Don't defer!.

And how many tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loans have you paid back?

To answer your question: I don't remember the total amount of my loans, but I got not parental assistance, and no scholarship money. I went to a private med school that had, and still has, one of the highest tuitions in the country. I paid those loans off, probably within 5 years post-residency. I have since also paid off my mortgage and home equity line of credit ( for a remodel) which together totaled well over 1 million. I am currently debt free.
But thanks for asking.

As I matter of fact, I consider mayself to be very knowledgable about personal finance and investing, because I have a lot of experience in those areas. As surgeons love to say, the way to avoid mistakes is to get a lot of experience. The way you get a lot of experience is to make a lot of mistakes. I do have a lot of experience. Despite that, no mortgage.

 

[NickNaylor]

Unlike many of these discussions that tend to pop up - and not to diminish OSU at all - I think the large difference in general reputation would be worth the additional cost, particularly if you might be interested in a competitive field or an academic career. Michigan is a top-notch institution. I know very little about OSU, but just the fact that it's affiliated with a huge university would lead me to believe that it can't be terrible. However, it certainly isn't on tier with Michigan.

That said, a driven, ambitious student will do well no matter where you go. If you work hard and take your education seriously, you'll succeed whether you're at OSU or Michigan. The former, though, might be able to nurture you more and provide you with opportunities that simply may not be available at a school like OSU.

Unfortunately, only you can ultimately decide whether the extra cash is worth it. I agree that, in the big scheme of things, $73k isn't a lot of money. In absolute terms, though, it's definitely a lot of money, and the question of whether it will "pay off" or not is pretty much impossible to predict at this point.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Pritzker is an excellent school but the city of Chicago is truly an awful place to live. Expensive like you wouldnt believe, incredibly dangerous in some areas, very dirty, traffic and parking a complete nightmare, etc. Not a good place at all for a family, and this is coming from someone who grew up there.

Chicago was actually a fairly nice place to live. Most of these dangerous areas are places that no med student would even consider living. It's not dirty as some other big cities, particularly in its downtown area. Traffic can be annoying, though you do have the CTA that can help if you live out a bit and want to go downtown for something. Parking, that is truly messed up. When you consider that Daley sold out the parking to a company for 75 years for $1 billion. All parking monies will be taken by the company and they can raise them as they see fit. Last I saw in a downtown spot, it was around $5/hour to park.

 

[Ltl Ducky]

For an update, I was surprised to get a scholarship from U of Michigan that more than covers the cost difference between U of Michigan and Ohio State so at this point it is U of Michigan all the way!!! (Unless I get a crazy scholarship from somewhere else)

 

[Frazier]

Congrats.

 

[Chansey]

Pritzker is an excellent school but the city of Chicago is truly an awful place to live. Expensive like you wouldnt believe, incredibly dangerous in some areas, very dirty, traffic and parking a complete nightmare, etc. Not a good place at all for a family, and this is coming from someone who grew up there.

Pritzker is actually located in Hyde Park, a suburb of Chicago. Hyde Park has a low cost of living, but this is a double edged sword. Some neighborhoods surrounding Pritzker are wealthy and safe (Obama's former residence is in Hyde Park), but if you go south of the school, you'll run into the low income neighborhoods of Hyde Park.

 

[GottaGetThatMD]

For an update, I was surprised to get a scholarship from U of Michigan that more than covers the cost difference between U of Michigan and Ohio State so at this point it is U of Michigan all the way!!! (Unless I get a crazy scholarship from somewhere else)

Gongrats OP!

 

[WingedOx]

Pritzker is actually located in Hyde Park, a suburb of Chicago. Hyde Park has a low cost of living, but this is a double edged sword. Some neighborhoods surrounding Pritzker are wealthy and safe (Obama's former residence is in Hyde Park), but if you go south of the school, you'll run into the low income neighborhoods of Hyde Park.

Oh no! Not Low Income Neighborhoods! Not that! I'm clutching my pearls just thinking about it!

/the biggest safety concern if you live in Hyde Park (or South Loop, where a lot of UofC residents live) is that you'll probably end up in the ICU with an acute case of boredom.

 

[Ltl Ducky]

The plot thickens. I got a scholarship from U of Chicago- pritzker worth double the amount of the scholarship at u of michigan. I would be out of state so the cost of either school would be the same. I still loved U of Michigan the most though, so I may email u of michigan to see if they could match it. Is the email asking for a matching scholarship too greedy?

 

[NickNaylor]

The plot thickens. I got a scholarship from U of Chicago- pritzker worth double the amount of the scholarship at u of michigan. I would be out of state so the cost of either school would be the same. I still loved U of Michigan the most though, so I may email u of michigan to see if they could match it. Is the email asking for a matching scholarship too greedy?

It's not greedy at all, and you have sufficient leverage to actually make this kind of request. Just be tactful and don't come across as demanding.

FWIW, I was in a somewhat similar position (choosing between Pritzker and Michigan) and ultimately went with Pritzker. They're both fine schools. You can't go wrong either way. I would go wherever is cheapest.

 

[Chansey]

Oh no! Not Low Income Neighborhoods! Not that! I'm clutching my pearls just thinking about it!

/the biggest safety concern if you live in Hyde Park (or South Loop, where a lot of UofC residents live) is that you'll probably end up in the ICU with an acute case of boredom.

Notice I purposely said "low income neighborhoods" (which is a fact) and not "horribly dangerous neighborhood where people get robbed and shot."

And Hyde Park isn't boring at all. It's 15 minutes from downtown Chicago. Other college towns like New Haven are 4+ hours away from the nearest major city (New York).

 

[WingedOx]

Notice I purposely said "low income neighborhoods" (which is a fact) and not "horribly dangerous neighborhood where people get robbed and shot."

And Hyde Park isn't boring at all. It's 15 minutes from downtown Chicago. Other college towns like New Haven are 4+ hours away from the nearest major city (New York).

just my usual snark about this topic. In a distant past life, I worked at a clinic in Auburn Gresham. You wanna see the best pathology, you gotta go where the action is.

HP is interesting, but very few of the UC residents I know actually hang out there (and transit is surprisingly annoying). South Loop has to have the lowest entertainment to density ratio of anywhere in Chicago.

 

[wiggitywack12]

Congrats OP !!!!

 

[NickNaylor]

just my usual snark about this topic. In a distant past life, I worked at a clinic in Auburn Gresham. You wanna see the best pathology, you gotta go where the action is.

HP is interesting, but very few of the UC residents I know actually hang out there (and transit is surprisingly annoying). South Loop has to have the lowest entertainment to density ratio of anywhere in Chicago.

But we got a Chipotle last year!

 

[gujuDoc]

Thanks for all of your replies and good information. 3rd year rotations for U of Michigan are close in Ann Arbor or Detroit as I understand it. I will have to keep contemplating.

I say GO BLUE!! Go to UMich. Better name, ann arbor is amazing. Only part of michigan I truly can say I will miss when I leave. Small college town but classier than a lot of other college times and close to chicago by 3 hours and toronto by 4-5 hours.

I'd also say in a choice between anywhere in ohio vs. ann arbor, I'd go ann arbor. but i have personal reasons to hate the state of Ohio related to racism in Ohio.

 

[gujuDoc]

however between pritzker vs. UMich i'd have a harder time. I think pritzkers location would make me want to say chicago but ann arbor is a pretty decent town and only few hours from chicago.

 

[bc65]

OP, any updates on the scholarship offers? Did Michigan counteroffer? What was the final $ difference between the two in actual $ per year?

 

[resiroth]

Can't go wrong, go with your gut. If that fails then go with whichever is cheaper since it's only worth going to a more expensive school if you clearly and unambiguously prefer it imo.

 

[Ltl Ducky]

OP, any updates on the scholarship offers? Did Michigan counteroffer? What was the final $ difference between the two in actual $ per year?

Not yet, I was informed that I would hear if U of Michigan is going to counter toward the end of the month.