Chirag/Royce Editorial, Goodman Article, Potters Response on Job Market 031121

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Though I should know this, why should an RO fail for the chemo regimen??
Tbh i think it's appropriate for us to know which chemo is indicated in concurrent regimens, some of us are the first line providers in locally advanced skin, h&n, anal etc. And make referrals to med onc.

That being said, I think knowing the nuances of cardiac toxicity in adjuvant breast chemo is a bit of stretch...

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Surprised people did not know this. Goes to show how irrelevant it is for our field which does not give chemo and multiple BC rad oncs are unaware of it… Its a real story which happened to someone who competently treated the disease yet the ABR decided it warranted failing them a few years ago. My point is the ABR boards are useless and one stupid mistake can lead to a failure in a setting which does not even come close to reality. I really do not get the fascination with this useless ritual from people in our field.
đź’Ż
Though I should know this, why should an RO fail for the chemo regimen??
Tbh i think it's appropriate for us to know which chemo is indicated in concurrent regimens, some of us are the first line providers in locally advanced skin, h&n, anal etc. And make referrals to med onc.

That being said, I think knowing the nuances of cardiac toxicity in adjuvant breast chemo is a bit of stretch...
reasonable for concurrent, but doses?
 
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Though I should know this, why should an RO fail for the chemo regimen??

reasonable for concurrent, but doses?
Supposedly that was asked in the past, afaik that was bonus round material i thought?? Then again, that's considered part of the territory in other parts of the world if you're doing both as a "clinical oncologist". Not saying that makes it right here but maybe that's the thought
 
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Because we are the real oncologists in medicine and thus have to know all the chemo, the surgeries, etc. One day an RO might suggest to a med onc dangerous chemo to use and the med onc would do it.

Don’t suggest hospice to med onc though; they’ll ignore you on that.
I'm now able to contrast my experience with med onc at a solid VA vs in the community. At the VA we'd see patients forever essentially as med onc would generally drop the ball. In the community now, I find myself signing off pretty soon as med onc has them come in for follow-ups so frequently and redundantly (in order to pay for mid-levels), that I see it as a disservice to patients to have them drive 2+ hrs round trip and pay the co-pay for nothing added.
 
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I wonder how many Med Oncs fail their boards for not knowing that 60 Gy to spinal cord will result in extreme risks of myelitis?

Oh, I know . . . NONE. They don’t have oral boards and even if that question came up on their written exam and they got it wrong, it would be merely one question out of 100s total on the test.
 
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I wonder how many Med Oncs fail their boards for not knowing that 60 Gy to spinal cord will result in extreme risks of myelitis?

Oh, I know . . . NONE. They don’t have oral boards and even if that question came up on their written exam and they got it wrong, it would be merely one question out of 100s total on the test.
IDK extreme...

(In residency at the inner city hospital there was some mixup, forget details..., where cord block wasn't placed through H&N treatment on 5 patients, all getting 60-66 Gy max to a short stretch of cord according to physics. Not a single patient got myelitis thankfully for that attending, and the patients.)
 
I am strongly in favor of written and especially oral boards. It is crazy to me that people view an 88% pass rate as inappropriately low and blame the ABR.

Please remember:
1) As the quality of residents goes down in the future, should we “demand” that the pass rate remain the same and cry bloody murder if the pass rate dips? Spare me the socially progressive nonsense on critical race theory and non-traditional applicants, the fact is that many trainees who matched in 2021 are, in aggregate, less prepared to self study for board exams and will struggle unless residency didactics improve.
2) Absent rigorous recertification, there is no other mechanism for ensuring quality rad onc physicians. The adorable baby rad onc trainees of today will, if coddled, become incompetent boomer rad oncs of tomorrow.
 
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I am strongly in favor of written and especially oral boards. It is crazy to me that people view an 88% pass rate as inappropriately low and blame the ABR.

Please remember:
1) As the quality of residents goes down in the future, should we “demand” that the pass rate remain the same and cry bloody murder if the pass rate dips? Spare me the socially progressive nonsense on critical race theory and non-traditional applicants, the fact is that many trainees who matched in 2021 are, in aggregate, less prepared to self study for board exams and will struggle unless residency didactics improve.
2) Absent rigorous recertification, there is no other mechanism for ensuring quality rad onc physicians. The adorable baby rad onc trainees of today will, if coddled, become incompetent boomer rad oncs of tomorrow.
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I am strongly in favor of written and especially oral boards. It is crazy to me that people view an 88% pass rate as inappropriately low and blame the ABR.

Please remember:
1) As the quality of residents goes down in the future, should we “demand” that the pass rate remain the same and cry bloody murder if the pass rate dips? Spare me the socially progressive nonsense on critical race theory and non-traditional applicants, the fact is that many trainees who matched in 2021 are, in aggregate, less prepared to self study for board exams and will struggle unless residency didactics improve.
2) Absent rigorous recertification, there is no other mechanism for ensuring quality rad onc physicians. The adorable baby rad onc trainees of today will, if coddled, become incompetent boomer rad oncs of tomorrow.
Would be interested in hearing from anyone who just took the boards and passed on how they scored in each section.
 
I am strongly in favor of written and especially oral boards. It is crazy to me that people view an 88% pass rate as inappropriately low and blame the ABR.

Please remember:
1) As the quality of residents goes down in the future, should we “demand” that the pass rate remain the same and cry bloody murder if the pass rate dips? Spare me the socially progressive nonsense on critical race theory and non-traditional applicants, the fact is that many trainees who matched in 2021 are, in aggregate, less prepared to self study for board exams and will struggle unless residency didactics improve.
2) Absent rigorous recertification, there is no other mechanism for ensuring quality rad onc physicians. The adorable baby rad onc trainees of today will, if coddled, become incompetent boomer rad oncs of tomorrow.
For me, it's more about the style and content of the boards, not a question on whether exams should exist or not.

For writtens, I would prefer them consolidated into one exam. I ABSOLUTELY do not mean just taking the 100 questions from RadBio, 100 questions from Physics, and 200-300 questions from Clinicals, and administering a single ~500 question exam, like I've seen some people implying. I mean a thoughtful integration of the questions into a single ~300 question exam with a question breakdown reflective of reality: maybe 75% clinical, 15% physics, 10% radbio. Physics actually has much more real-world value than radiation biology for an exam intended for MDs. I am qualified to make this assertion, as someone with a PhD in Radiation Biology who also practices clinical medicine. People should have the option of taking this anytime after the start of their PGY4 year. There should be at least 3 administrations of this exam per year. It should be administered using the new remote exam platform, which is amazing. I think this is an easy fix that could be implemented almost immediately. I could go on and on about the questions themselves...but I'll leave it alone for now.

For orals, we should copy the Neurosurgeons (here's a link to their format). They have three, 45 minute sections. Each section is five questions. The first section is general Neurosurgery. The second section consists of questions from "pre-identified area of focused practice chosen by the candidate", or they can just choose to do five more general questions. The final section is about five cases from the candidate's own practice (they submit 10, the examiners choose 5 at random).

I find this format RIDICULOUSLY more valuable than the hot mess RadOnc has designed, which, as others have noted, seems more like sanctioned hazing than assessing competence. Obviously, we don't know the truth behind the ddAC+Herceptin story and what else happened during that session, but no one should FAIL a RadOnc exam because of a NON-CONCURRENT chemotherapy question. This is different than @Chartreuse Wombat's story of ADT, where, even if Urology is giving the ADT, it should be concurrent, thus you will be seeing (and managing) ADT-related side effects in your patients.

Regarding upcoming pass rates: I assume the ABR will actually make zero changes and this same archaic hazing system will remain in place. If nothing changes, then I would ABSOLUTELY expect pass rates to drop in the coming years. I expect this because, on average, the incoming residents have objectively lower test-taking stats than the Golden Era generation. I'm not making a comment about whether or not I think good test-takers are good doctors (I believe those are unrelated skills). I would not cry murder if pass rates dip. I will, however, cry murder if the pass rates don't change.

I will forever think of the Amdur and Lee editorial on the board exams. In the Golden Era, average USMLE scores of RadOnc residents continued to rise over the years with pass rate remaining relatively unchanged, suggesting that the ABR was "moving the goal posts" and making the exams harder to pass. The ABR (and our good friend Lisa Kachnic), of course, denies this. None of us mere mortals are privy to how these exams are actually scored each year, other than the ABR assuring us (you know, the people being subjected to this process) that their Angoff process is bulletproof. If the Angoff process is so good, and the ABR's assertion that the goalposts don't change from year to year, then we should start to see a dip in pass rates starting in maybe 2022 or 2023.

If pass rates don't dip, it's just more evidence that The American Board of Radiology - this black box organization which we have decided has a monopoly of power over who gets to practice Radiation Oncology in the United States, a paternalistic organization which has proven that it is beyond the reach of any sort of accountability by the doctors beholden to its stamp of approval - is not maintaining a consistent measure of what it means to be "board certified". This ties in to why other specialties did away with oral boards, after evidenced-based metrics demonstrated how fallible they were to bias and interpersonal dynamics.

So, while I agree that there needs to be mechanisms in place to ensure that the doctors delivering radiation therapy in America are competent, I am unsure that our current system, as it is designed and implemented, is actually doing that. I think the entire enterprise of Radiation Oncology, from individual residency programs to the ABR itself, needs the 2021 version of Abraham Flexner.
 
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Surprised people did not know this. Goes to show how irrelevant it is for our field which does not give chemo and multiple BC rad oncs are unaware of it… Its a real story which happened to someone who competently treated the disease yet the ABR decided it warranted failing them a few years ago. My point is the ABR boards are useless and one stupid mistake can lead to a failure in a setting which does not even come close to reality. I really do not get the fascination with this useless ritual from people in our field.

I will agree with you that not knowing chemo toxicities should NOT be a reason for failure on a Rad Onc board exam.

I do wish there was significantly more transparency and directed feedback to any test taker who failed any section of the exam as to what they said or didn't say lead to their failure.
 
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I will forever think of the Amdur and Lee editorial on the board exams. In the Golden Era, average USMLE scores of RadOnc residents continued to rise over the years with pass rate remaining relatively unchanged, suggesting that the ABR was "moving the goal posts" and making the exams harder to pass.

I did not think of this, but it's so true. It seems, though there has been some re-calibration. I am torn about how we should do with oral boards. We should, with our post-doctorate training, know minutiae, difficult situations, and odd ball stuff - I'm thinking about Ph.D. oral exams. The questions can't be so easy that memorizing NCCN guidelines would do. Not sure, as I have often noted, the oral board prep made me a better rad onc and that knowledge was very useful. The rad bio, physics, and written are just garbage. We all know though, that some oral board exam questions are unrealistic and so lame.

Oral Board Case Scenario:

Examiner: p16- T4N1 Tonsil what would you do? If it was p16+ would you change your management? What if it was a primary head and neck melanoma - what other considerations would need to be taken? What if it was an Axumin PET+ prostate cancer met with poorly differentiated neuroendocrine cells with castrate resistant CTCs in found in the blood that on FoundationOne testing had an ALK1 mutation - would you electively radiate the pelvis and to what dose :dead: ?
 
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I did not think of this, but it's so true. It seems, though there has been some re-calibration. I am torn about how we should do with oral boards. We should, with our post-doctorate training, know minutiae, difficult situations, and odd ball stuff - I'm thinking about Ph.D. oral exams. The questions can't be so easy that memorizing NCCN guidelines would do. Not sure, as I have often noted, the oral board prep made me a better rad onc and that knowledge was very useful. The rad bio, physics, and written are just garbage. We all know though, that some oral board exam questions are unrealistic and so lame.

Oral Board Case Scenario:

Examiner: p16- T4N1 Tonsil what would you do? If it was p16+ would you change your management? What if it was a primary head and neck melanoma - what other considerations would need to be taken? What if it was an Axumin PET+ prostate cancer met with poorly differentiated neuroendocrine cells with castrate resistant CTCs in found in the blood that on FoundationOne testing had an ALK1 mutation - would you electively radiate the pelvis and to what dose :dead: ?
I think many people see the value in oral boards, but I think it's also pretty clearly the weakest point in the chain because of its subjectivity. I favor changing the format to something closer to Neurosurgery for two reasons: first, so everyone is NOT forced to be tested on something they likely will never treat, like Pediatrics. However, if you're someone who treats Pediatrics, you can opt to include that in your second section as a "focused area". Second, I really like the idea of being tested on your own cases. Part of a capstone board experience, in my opinion at least, should encourage maturity and growth in your capacity as a physician. If you're being tested on your own cases - these are real people to you, people that you might have done irreversible things to. Being forced to explore different "what if" scenarios on someone you treated in real life has tremendously more value than convoluted case scenarios an examiner is invoking to be tricky.

We could also do other things to make oral boards less fallible. Part of the issue is that failing is such a stigma, and it happens after someone is long gone from residency, that I don't know what really happens. If you fail, are you told why? I'm under the impression that you never learn why you fail, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right - I would start there. I would make the scoring process more transparent so that the people who condition or fail are told why, so they can learn from the experience...which is the whole point of training and studying. Everything is digital and remote now, there's no reason we can't keep recordings of everything. Make the process less of a black box!
 
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I think many people see the value in oral boards, but I think it's also pretty clearly the weakest point in the chain because of its subjectivity. I favor changing the format to something closer to Neurosurgery for two reasons: first, so everyone is NOT forced to be tested on something they likely will never treat, like Pediatrics. However, if you're someone who treats Pediatrics, you can opt to include that in your second section as a "focused area". Second, I really like the idea of being tested on your own cases. Part of a capstone board experience, in my opinion at least, should encourage maturity and growth in your capacity as a physician. If you're being tested on your own cases - these are real people to you, people that you might have done irreversible things to. Being forced to explore different "what if" scenarios on someone you treated in real life has tremendously more value than convoluted case scenarios an examiner is invoking to be tricky.

We could also do other things to make oral boards less fallible. Part of the issue is that failing is such a stigma, and it happens after someone is long gone from residency, that I don't know what really happens. If you fail, are you told why? I'm under the impression that you never learn why you fail, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right - I would start there. I would make the scoring process more transparent so that the people who condition or fail are told why, so they can learn from the experience...which is the whole point of training and studying. Everything is digital and remote now, there's no reason we can't keep recordings of everything. Make the process less of a black box!
Agree.. reform it. Don't kill it. Like I've said before, i think it was actually the most useful test for preparing me for practice and tested me in a way no M/C could. And given the quality of applicant being SOAPed in these days and likely going forward by unscrupulous programs, there's no better way to ensure competency imo
 
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I think many people see the value in oral boards, but I think it's also pretty clearly the weakest point in the chain because of its subjectivity. I favor changing the format to something closer to Neurosurgery for two reasons: first, so everyone is NOT forced to be tested on something they likely will never treat, like Pediatrics. However, if you're someone who treats Pediatrics, you can opt to include that in your second section as a "focused area". Second, I really like the idea of being tested on your own cases. Part of a capstone board experience, in my opinion at least, should encourage maturity and growth in your capacity as a physician. If you're being tested on your own cases - these are real people to you, people that you might have done irreversible things to. Being forced to explore different "what if" scenarios on someone you treated in real life has tremendously more value than convoluted case scenarios an examiner is invoking to be tricky.

We could also do other things to make oral boards less fallible. Part of the issue is that failing is such a stigma, and it happens after someone is long gone from residency, that I don't know what really happens. If you fail, are you told why? I'm under the impression that you never learn why you fail, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right - I would start there. I would make the scoring process more transparent so that the people who condition or fail are told why, so they can learn from the experience...which is the whole point of training and studying. Everything is digital and remote now, there's no reason we can't keep recordings of everything. Make the process less of a black box!
I took oral boards this year, virtually. I do know someone who outright failed, not condition 1 or 2 sections, but failed multiple sections. The ABR has feedback you can purchase for $250 (ABR), but I was told that the feedback was completely superficial, without any constructive feedback.

Moreover, Paul Wallner met with the examinees a couple of weeks before the exam, stating that the exam is recorded for quality control but later said that it was immediately destroyed. So, I literally have no idea what happens at all with the videos.
 
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I took oral boards this year, virtually. I do know someone who outright failed, not condition 1 or 2 sections, but failed multiple sections. The ABR has feedback you can purchase for $250 (ABR), but I was told that the feedback was completely superficial, without any constructive feedback.

Moreover, Paul Wallner met with the examinees a couple of weeks before the exam, stating that the exam is recorded for quality control but later said that it was immediately destroyed. So, I literally have no idea what happens at all with the videos.
Sounds very legit to me.
 
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I took oral boards this year, virtually. I do know someone who outright failed, not condition 1 or 2 sections, but failed multiple sections. The ABR has feedback you can purchase for $250 (ABR), but I was told that the feedback was completely superficial, without any constructive feedback.

Moreover, Paul Wallner met with the examinees a couple of weeks before the exam, stating that the exam is recorded for quality control but later said that it was immediately destroyed. So, I literally have no idea what happens at all with the videos.
Exactly, we pay an extra $250 to get feedback? To even get a breakdown of the scores? In what world is this ethical? This isn't about making us better. At the same time, we're operating in a specialty where our approaches are either casually "reasonable," or flat out wrong. From the outside, it's hard to tell if the oral boards are conditioning people who gave a generally "reasonable" treatment rec to a specific examiner who didn't see it as such, or who were just incompetent. I have trouble believing 13% of the recent test-takers are incompetent. There are very few body sites where there's more clarity than confusion, a lot of which is probably a result of the present board examiners being involved in the creation of trials that don't ask or answer one question. Stage III uterine cancer comes to mind. Further, the day I will have a plan for 5-6 consults in 30 mins without ever seeing them in person is the day I really would be too dangerous to practice.
 
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Charging for “feedback” so wallner can get a few more Oz of tortured baby wagyu with his bottle of red is a very ABR move. What a fantastic field! You’re welcome sir.
 
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they don’t focus on minutiae because it’s important. They focus on it because there’s nothing else to talk about. It’s a fake specialty.
 
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they don’t focus on minutiae because it’s important. They focus on it because there’s nothing else to talk about. It’s a fake specialty.
Well, I certainly can't get behind that. It's a truly interesting specialty with terrible, terrible leadership.
 
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I agree with both of you in some ways. It is a very interesting rewarding field but with a sad reality, terrible leadership, facing existential issues like decreased utilization often driven by our own people. Very sad stuff
 
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Well, I certainly can't get behind that. It's a truly interesting specialty with terrible, terrible leadership.
I feel like the focus on trivia was a huge detriment to my training. In my medicine intern year, practical skills and patient management came first, factoids from trials came second. My ENTIRE residency experience was the opposite. It felt like the actual practice of Radiation Oncology was de-emphasized while knowing the pCR rates in favorite trials was of the utmost importance.

Surprisingly, out here in independent practice, no one seems to care that I can recite stats from INT 0160. Weird.
 
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I feel like the focus on trivia was a huge detriment to my training. In my medicine intern year, practical skills and patient management came first, factoids from trials came second. My ENTIRE residency experience was the opposite. It felt like the actual practice of Radiation Oncology was de-emphasized while knowing the pCR rates in favorite trials was of the utmost importance.

Surprisingly, out here in independent practice, no one seems to care that I can recite stats from INT 0160. Weird.
Strongly agree. My residency program never gave us proper, comprehensive training on CT simulation, dosimetry, or physics. Had to learn it on our own, which was doable, but not really supposed to be the situation, is it?
 
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Strongly agree. My residency program never gave us proper, comprehensive training on CT simulation, dosimetry, or physics. Had to learn it on our own, which was doable, but not really supposed to be the situation, is it?
The really **** programs just treat you like a scribe with even less experience in those areas
 
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I feel like the focus on trivia was a huge detriment to my training. In my medicine intern year, practical skills and patient management came first, factoids from trials came second. My ENTIRE residency experience was the opposite. It felt like the actual practice of Radiation Oncology was de-emphasized while knowing the pCR rates in favorite trials was of the utmost importance.

Surprisingly, out here in independent practice, no one seems to care that I can recite stats from INT 0160. Weird.
the trivia and minutia are a reflection of academic narcissism and self importance.
 
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The really **** programs just treat you like a scribe with even less experience in those areas

Sad thing is that this can be true of "top-tier" places. Or at least my "top-tier" place.
 
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Sad thing is that this can be true of "top-tier" places. Or at least my "top-tier" place.

My training was done at a "top tier" institution
 
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My training was done on MedNet and eContour.
True. For anyone reading this who's affiliated with econtour, more cases would be appreciated, even if the same body site. Not sure what kinds of permissions are required, but just posting up some reasonably common cases that require some higher level thinking for whatever reason would be helpful. Zebras really aren't helpful. We have to kind of guess where the cancer might be as opposed to a surg onc who cuts out what he sees, and seeing what experts do and why is invaluable, and in this case, so simple to make happen.
 
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My training was done on MedNet and eContour.
Yes, invaluable resources.

I have had some amazing faculty that really take the time teach. Stay late to review contours, etc. Others where you are a scut monkey expected to run the service as a PGY-2. It is about 50/50. The interesting thing I have noticed is that there seems to be an inverse correlation between being "world-renowned" and teaching quality.
 
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Chair’s Update BY THOMAS EICHLER, MD, FASTRO, CHAIR, BOARD OF DIRECTORS (from 2021 Astro annual meeting guide):

"An equally important source for concern has been the future of the radiation oncology workforce, an issue that has been magnified over the past couple of years by declining NRMP numbers. Not unexpectedly, there has been no shortage of suggestions from our colleagues at ARRO, SCAROP and ADROP, among others. Many of their recommendations have already been acted upon with other proposals in the pipeline. Per their unanimous request, an ad hoc taskforce has been formed composed of members from the aforementioned organizations, plus members of the ASTRO Workforce Subcommittee and CHEDI (whatever that is). The taskforce will consider the parameters for a study of the current workforce and what information should be targeted that would be most helpful to ASTRO going forward to regain our competitive edge among the best and the brightest medical students while strategizing for the future. I anticipate that finalizing the budget, vendor selection and the survey tool will be completed before the end of the year.

Again, Astro does not want anyone outside of the academic group think power structure to be part of this. Typical.
 
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Chair’s Update BY THOMAS EICHLER, MD, FASTRO, CHAIR, BOARD OF DIRECTORS (from 2021 Astro annual meeting guide):

"An equally important source for concern has been the future of the radiation oncology workforce, an issue that has been magnified over the past couple of years by declining NRMP numbers. Not unexpectedly, there has been no shortage of suggestions from our colleagues at ARRO, SCAROP and ADROP, among others. Many of their recommendations have already been acted upon with other proposals in the pipeline. Per their unanimous request, an ad hoc taskforce has been formed composed of members from the aforementioned organizations, plus members of the ASTRO Workforce Subcommittee and CHEDI (whatever that is). The taskforce will consider the parameters for a study of the current workforce and what information should be targeted that would be most helpful to ASTRO going forward to regain our competitive edge among the best and the brightest medical students while strategizing for the future. I anticipate that finalizing the budget, vendor selection and the survey tool will be completed before the end of the year.

Again, Astro does not want anyone outside of the academic group think power structure to be part of this. Typical.
Now that s***’s getting real, I conveniently see less antitrust talk.
 
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I can't wait until they roll out an optional SurveyMonkey in 9 months, with a 13% response rate, after which they deem the job market to be satisfactory.
 
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CHEDI = Committee for Health Equity, Diversity and Inclusion. Not sure why they need to be involved, but wouldn’t it be quite a show if they recommended to not poach minorities to an oversaturated field citing job market concerns and to contract spots based on diversity issues? It would be the first (and last) time I’d support CHEDI LOL
 
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Just more administrative BS. It’s all about kicking the can down the road forever… nothing to see here folks.
 
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As long as the proposed study has significant input from members of SCAROP and ADROP I'm inclined not to believe any of their findings. The conflict of interest here are just too huge. I doubt anything that is put out from this ad hoc committee will even acknowledge these conflicts of interest.

What the study will find: There are some concerns of an oversupply in certain very desirable job markets but there are plenty of open positions in underserved communities. This present an opportunity for rad onc to .......
 
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WTF does CHEDI have to do with this? If white/asian/indian men were getting jobs but women/underrepresented minorities were not, then sure, bring in the diversity crowd...
 
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WTF does CHEDI have to do with this? If white/asian/indian men were getting jobs but women/underrepresented minorities were not, then sure, bring in the diversity crowd...
It's probably to make sure the panel itself is well balanced. I see a lot of digs on this site about diversity, which often seem tangential to the actual issue at hand
 
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It's probably to make sure the panel itself is well balanced. I see a lot of digs on this site about diversity, which often seem tangential to the actual issue at hand

I agree. weird slant.
 
It's probably to make sure the panel itself is well balanced. I see a lot of digs on this site about diversity, which often seem tangential to the actual issue at hand

It’s because the whole idea to need CHEDI at all and it’s oversized influence in our society which many of us feel has only brought negative effects, resent it is brought into the debate for residency expansion.

You are absolutely right it is tangential, that’s the point, why do they need to be consulted at all? Why does the panel need to be “diverse” according to whose standards? By US population? Med school population? I guarantee you they are not looking for intellectual diversity…
 
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CHEDI's influence is so oversized and effects they've "brought" so negative, that no one even knew what/who they are.
 
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It’s because the whole idea to need CHEDI at all and it’s oversized influence in our society which many of us feel has only brought negative effects, resent it is brought into the debate for residency expansion.

You are absolutely right it is tangential, that’s the point, why do they need to be consulted at all? Why does the panel need to be “diverse” according to whose standards? By US population? Med school population? I guarantee you they are not looking for intellectual diversity…
I know some of the people in CHEDI but not their inner workings. What oversize influence do they have and what negative effects? Have they argued for residency expansion? I know one program with CHEDI representation has contracted their residency
 
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I know some of the people in CHEDI but not their inner workings. What oversize influence do they have and what negative effects? Have they argued for residency expansion? I know one program with CHEDI representation has contracted their residency

I’m speaking more generally about the diversity, equity, and inclusion movement, which CHEDI is obviously a part of and this has been talked about at length on SDN.

Are you aware of these discussions on here, as I think you are new to SDN?
 
CHEDI's influence is so oversized and effects they've "brought" so negative, that no one even knew what/who they are.
Hmmm you mean like having a national cancer organization create a committee specifically for so called “diversity equity and inclusion” and then have to run past things like residency expansion, something that is important to us all, and obtain their blessing.

Nothing like that of course, they have so little influence… it’s just a subforum on SDN. My bad!
 
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