MD Cheating allegations engulf Dartmouth medical school

[ohmanwaddup]

it is incredibly easy to identify anonymous posters on the internet, especially if they post a lot about a variety of topics. I've identified multiple people on SDN from my undergrad and med school just from some small aspect of their posts. I would be very easily identifiable if someone from my school cared to put half an ounce of effort in (I'm sure someone has IDed me at this point, though no one has ever said anything irl). This is why you should be willing to stand behind anything you put on the internet.

Or you can install extensions that go and purge all your comments every week

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[operaman]

Oh yeah doxxing people is ridiculously easy unless they’re especially careful. Even anon Redditors can be identified most of the time.

If someone is doing anything from school networks then it gets even easier. There was a bomb threat at Harvard a number of years ago and the perpetrator used tor browser to cover his tracks, but then the FBI just looked at network logs for who was logged on at all and active when the threat was sent. That plus a little shoe leather and they were able to get a warrant and make an arrest in no time flat.

So yeah, don’t be stupid on the Internet. You’re only as safe and anonymous as the amount of work someone is willing to put in to identify you.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Oh yeah doxxing people is ridiculously easy unless they’re especially careful. Even anon Redditors can be identified most of the time.

If someone is doing anything from school networks then it gets even easier. There was a bomb threat at Harvard a number of years ago and the perpetrator used tor browser to cover his tracks, but then the FBI just looked at network logs for who was logged on at all and active when the threat was sent. That plus a little shoe leather and they were able to get a warrant and make an arrest in no time flat.

So yeah, don’t be stupid on the Internet. You’re only as safe and anonymous as the amount of work someone is willing to put in to identify you.

Your last paragraph is 1000% facts. Just think of all those people over the summer who got fired or kicked out of college after their racist comments were sent to schools and employers.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

who is stupid enough to sell their test questions to a for profit website?

 

[efle]

who is stupid enough to sell their test questions to a for profit website?

I'd honestly put the stupidness of using such a site even higher, and that's widespread. Multiple people in a class submitting the exact same answers is all it takes to catch all the users. I watched this happen in my physics class, a bunch of students were sharing around the instructor answer manual and were too stupid to even adjust the answers, they copied step by step identically. And these were students who hit top percentile SAT, but a shocking lack of common sense.

 

[deleted1103055]

Cheating apparently is a thing these days even by state university presidents.
who is next? Sheesh

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/education/article251325903.html

Caslen was in the spotlight for a pair of noticeable gaffes in this weekend’s commencement address. First, Caslen accidentally congratulated the new graduates of the “University of California” before correcting himself, causing audible confusion among the South Carolina graduates and guests in attendance. ​

It also later emerged that Caslen’s speech quoted portions of another speech by retired Navy admiral William McRaven without attributing the source of the material. Caslen admitted in an interview to WIS his use of McRaven’s quote was plagiarism.​

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Cheating apparently is a thing these days even by state university presidents.
who is next? Sheesh

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/education/article251325903.html

Caslen was in the spotlight for a pair of noticeable gaffes in this weekend’s commencement address. First, Caslen accidentally congratulated the new graduates of the “University of California” before correcting himself, causing audible confusion among the South Carolina graduates and guests in attendance. ​

It also later emerged that Caslen’s speech quoted portions of another speech by retired Navy admiral William McRaven without attributing the source of the material. Caslen admitted in an interview to WIS his use of McRaven’s quote was plagiarism.​

His resignation was accepted today. Honestly, he was never especially popular as his hiring was quite contentious.

 

[Lawpy]

What's the outcome of the dartmouth scandal?

 

[buffalo bill]

What's the outcome of the dartmouth scandal?

Update came in today:

Every student facing sanctions appealed their verdict to be reviewed again by the school.

The Dean of Geisel has since decided to dismiss all charges and overturn all sanctions. He claimed this is based on information provided by their “learning management system provider” as a result of the incident. Any student involved will have no marks on their record regarding this incident.

This was the right decision to make. This is justice.

 

[Lawpy]

Update came in today:

Every student facing sanctions appealed their verdict to be reviewed again by the school.

The Dean of Geisel has since decided to dismiss all charges and overturn all sanctions. He claimed this is based on information provided by their “learning management system provider” as a result of the incident. Any student involved will have no marks on their record regarding this incident.

This was the right decision to make. This is justice.

Thanks for the update!

That's great to hear.

 

[efle]

Update came in today:

Every student facing sanctions appealed their verdict to be reviewed again by the school.

The Dean of Geisel has since decided to dismiss all charges and overturn all sanctions. He claimed this is based on information provided by their “learning management system provider” as a result of the incident. Any student involved will have no marks on their record regarding this incident.

This was the right decision to make. This is justice.

Finally got enough bad press, good for the students who took it to the news

 

[spottedpothos]

Update came in today:

Every student facing sanctions appealed their verdict to be reviewed again by the school.

The Dean of Geisel has since decided to dismiss all charges and overturn all sanctions. He claimed this is based on information provided by their “learning management system provider” as a result of the incident. Any student involved will have no marks on their record regarding this incident.

This was the right decision to make. This is justice.

So expelled students can return?

 

[Moko]

Update came in today:

Every student facing sanctions appealed their verdict to be reviewed again by the school.

The Dean of Geisel has since decided to dismiss all charges and overturn all sanctions. He claimed this is based on information provided by their “learning management system provider” as a result of the incident. Any student involved will have no marks on their record regarding this incident.

This was the right decision to make. This is justice.

I am glad that things worked out for these students. They undoubtedly will still receive emails begging for donations after their graduation though.

 

[Taurus]

Update came in today:

Every student facing sanctions appealed their verdict to be reviewed again by the school.

The Dean of Geisel has since decided to dismiss all charges and overturn all sanctions. He claimed this is based on information provided by their “learning management system provider” as a result of the incident. Any student involved will have no marks on their record regarding this incident.

This was the right decision to make. This is justice.

It’s because the school didn’t want to get tied up in more than a dozen lawsuits when the evidence is not air-tight. Plus, the bad publicity.

When you are about to f*ck up someone’s life and career and prevent them from getting into their desired specialty or even be able to match at all, you better have all your i’s dotted and t’s crossed. The school knew it didn’t have irrefutable evidence to do that. The students’ lawyers would have shredded their evidence in court and make the school look sloppy and run by a bunch of clowns.

 

[anna01106]

I am so relieved and happy for these students, but they are just at the beginning of their career and I cannot imagine the amount of trauma and anxiety caused by this event. I hope Geisel cleans their **** up and starts making more reparations for their sloppy behavior.

 

[supsurfer]

Good for the students. Terrible look for the school.

 

[Lawpy]

Good for the students. Terrible look for the school.

How do dartmouth med school applicants react?

 

[buffalo bill]

So expelled students can return?

Yes. They were never officially expelled as they had all appealed their verdicts. But this will not show up on their record in any fashion.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Update came in today:

Every student facing sanctions appealed their verdict to be reviewed again by the school.

The Dean of Geisel has since decided to dismiss all charges and overturn all sanctions. He claimed this is based on information provided by their “learning management system provider” as a result of the incident. Any student involved will have no marks on their record regarding this incident.

This was the right decision to make. This is justice.

Yaaaaaaaay!!!!

 

[doctorBsquared]

Where are @Goro and the others (probably also from an older generation) who were still accusing the students of cheating and the admin of being competent? I would love to see how they respond LMAO

On a brighter note, I am thrilled for the students

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Where are @Goro and the others (probably also from an older generation) who were still accusing the students of cheating and the admin of being competent? I would love to see how they respond LMAO

On a brighter note, I am thrilled for the students

While I'm happy with the end result, there is a probability that some of the accused cheated even if it was only for a brief moment.

 

[doctorBsquared]

While I'm happy with the end result, there is a probability that some of the accused cheated even if it was only for a brief moment.

Then why are you happy with the end result...?

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Then why are you happy with the end result...?

The handling of the situation was a mess. The students accused didn't deserve to be put through this stress. While I think that there's a probability that some cheated, I also think that there's a probability that some of the accused did not. What happened wasn't clear enough to risk people's careers. There was way too much confusion (especially in the beginning).

 

[doctorBsquared]

The handling of the situation was a mess. The students accused didn't deserve to be put through this stress. While I think that there's a probability that some cheated, I also think that there's also a probability that some of the accused did not. What happened wasn't clear enough to risk people's careers. There was way too much confusion (especially in the beginning).

Uhhh yes, exactly. Sounds like we agree that risking people's careers based on flimsy evidence is not something which should be taken lightly, right?
So, I am still wondering what those who were siding with Dartmouth think about this now.

 

[Ms. Incognito]

Wow, thats... probably around 20% of that class at Dartmouth lol

Probably more than that but the ones who didn't get caught were/are smart and 10 steps ahead...

 

[Goro]

Where are @Goro and the others (probably also from an older generation) who were still accusing the students of cheating and the admin of being competent? I would love to see how they respond LMAO

On a brighter note, I am thrilled for the students

Gloating doesn't become you.

 

[efle]

Yall are silly if you think this had anything to do with competence or evidence anyways. If this had all stayed quiet those students would not be doctors. Lawyers and PR fixed this

 

[Ms. Incognito]

This reminds me of a scandal a doctor told me some time ago about a group of former pre-meds who bribed a Caribbean for-profit med school to be "enrolled" as medical students. Each of them (allegedly) forked out thousands of dollars so that it appeared as if they were overseas duking it out with their other "classmates" in the islands, when in actuality they were at home studying for Step 1 and attending U.S. med school lectures that didn't take attendance. So naturally, they all got high Step scores of ~230+ having studied stress-free for 2 years with no interruptions. Unsurprisingly, they all got into stellar U.S. med schools for clerkship rotations and move on with their professional lives practicing as doctors.

They would have all gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for one meddling doctor who became suspicious, put 2-and-2 together, and realized that a colleague he recognized as a former "classmate" having attended his pre-clinical classes had no record of being enrollment...

From what I heard, that "colleague" and the other co-conspirators got caught up but as the doc told me it was such a complex, nuanced case because most of the "doctors" in the group were successful, had great rapport/reviews from patients and were well-respected in their respective fields. So it's like do you take away their licenses or let them slide because they're established physicians in a country with physician shortages, have decent records despite only 2 legit years of medical training (minus the pre-clinical years), and no clear money trail that traces back to them or the med school in the islands?

I say all this to say, you'd be surprised the lengths people will go to get that M.D. lol. I haven't had a chance to look into this, but if this is in fact true and not some BS legend, boy oh boy is this Dartmouth case child's play lol. Well not really as one of the best tech coordinators from my school left for Dartmouth weeks ago likely because of this mess....

 

[doctorBsquared]

Yall are silly if you think this had anything to do with competence or evidence anyways. If this had all stayed quiet those students would not be doctors. Lawyers and PR fixed this

The lawyers and PR were only able to fix this because Dartmouth had weak evidence, which they used due to their incompetence. If it was a clear-cut case, then lawyers and PR wouldn’t have changed a thing. Your argument makes no sense. If there were video evidence of students cheating, no lawyers or PR could change the outcome.

And sure Goro, gloating isn’t becoming. But neither was your flippant attitude towards these students during an egregious violation of their well-being. Genuinely curious, how do you feel about this ending?

 

[efle]

The lawyers and PR were only able to fix this because Dartmouth had weak evidence, which they used due to their incompetence. If it was a clear-cut case, then lawyers and PR wouldn’t have changed a thing. Your argument makes no sense. If there were video evidence of students cheating, no lawyers or PR could change the outcome.

And sure Goro, gloating isn’t becoming. But neither was your flippant attitude towards these students during an egregious violation of their well-being. Genuinely curious, how do you feel about this ending?

Not what I meant.

The evidence was weak, yes. And it didnt change since this started. The brainpower of their IT and admin is also the same. Once this dumb snowball got rolling it would've ruined lives if not for some smart students lawyering up and taking it to media. None of us would have known about the weakness of the evidence, or even that all this happened, if the school could have run things their way.

 

[doctorBsquared]

Not what I meant.

The evidence was weak, yes. And it didnt change since this started. The brainpower of their IT and admin is also the same. Once this dumb snowball got rolling it would've ruined lives if not for some smart students lawyering up and taking it to media. None of us would have known about the weakness of the evidence, or even that all this happened, if the school could have run things their way.

Okay, then I misunderstood. You did say that evidence and competence had nothing to do with it, which seems wrong. They had everything to do with it. The PR simply exposed the lack of both evidence and competence.

 

[buffalo bill]

Gloating doesn't become you.

I’m not sure he was gloating. He definitely called out your callous attitude towards the students and is suggesting your unwavering support for the administration was misplaced given the strong evidence that they were grasping at straws in their accusations.

When half of the students get off because they challenge the admin to prove their guilt, but yet the other half are convicted on the *exact same* evidence (frankly, because they were coerced), it should raise a lot of red flags about the integrity of the accusations.

 

[altblue]

honestly even if the admin were competent, it's foolish to assume they'd have the students' best interest at heart. at the end of the day, the bottom line, their egos and their national reputation matter most to them. when it became clear that it was disadvantageous in the long-term for dartmouth to defend the integrity of the charges, they bailed. if the pressure hadn't been applied, they'd have continued to be defensive rather than admit incompetence.

stop licking the boots of authority figures. be skeptical. seek guidance from sources you trust.

 

[buffalo bill]

Dartmouth Medical School Drops Online Cheating Cases Against Students (Published 2021)

The Ivy League school said it was dismissing allegations that students had looked up online course materials during remote exams.

www.nytimes.com

Updated NYT Article. Text Below. Emphasis mine:

"Dartmouth’s Geisel School of Medicine says it is dropping an online cheating investigation that led the school to erroneously accuse some students, allegations that prompted an outcry among faculty, alumni and technology experts.

In March, Dartmouth charged 17 students with cheating based on a review of certain online activity data on Canvas — a popular learning management system where professors post assignments and students submit their work — during remote exams. The school quickly dropped seven of the cases after at least two students argued that administrators had mistaken automated Canvas activity for human cheating.

Now Dartmouth is also dropping allegations against the remaining 10 students, some of whom faced expulsion, suspension, course failures and misconduct marks on their academic records that could have derailed their medical careers.

“I have decided to dismiss all the honor code charges,” Duane A. Compton, the dean of the medical school, said in an email to the Geisel community on Wednesday evening, adding that the students’ academic records would not be affected. “I have apologized to the students for what they have been through.”

Dartmouth’s decision to dismiss the charges followed a software review by The New York Times, which found that students’ devices could automatically generate Canvas activity data even when no one was using them. Dartmouth’s practices were condemned by some alumni along with some faculty at other medical schools.

A Dartmouth spokesman said the school could not comment further on the dropping of the charges for privacy reasons. The school’s agreements with the students who had been accused are not yet final, and the students did not immediately return requests for comment.
The cheating investigation turned the pastoral Ivy League campus into a national battleground over escalating school surveillance during the pandemic.

While many universities, including Dartmouth, require students to use special software that locks down their devices during remote exams, Geisel went further by using a second system, Canvas, to retroactively track student activity during remote exams without their knowledge. That was unusual because Canvas was not designed as a forensic tool.

Technology experts said Dartmouth’s use of Canvas raised questions. While some students may have cheated, these experts said, it would be difficult for school administrators to distinguish cheating from noncheating based on the kind of Canvas data snapshots that Dartmouth used.
The case was also notable for Dartmouth’s procedures after the students were accused.

Some of the accused students said Dartmouth had hamstrung their ability to defend themselves. They had less than 48 hours to respond to the charges, were not provided complete data logs for the exams, and were advised to plead guilty though they denied cheating or were given just two minutes to make their cases in online hearings, according to interviews with six of the students and a review of documents.

In an interview in April, Dr. Compton said the school’s methods for identifying possible cheating were fair and valid. Administrators, he said, provided accused students with all the data on which the cheating charges were based. He denied that the student affairs office had advised those who said they had not cheated to plead guilty.

In his email on Wednesday, he took a different tone.

“As we look to the future, we must ensure fairness in our honor code review process, especially in an academic environment that includes more remote learning,” Dr. Compton wrote. “We will learn from this and we will do better.”

 

[efle]

Dartmouth’s decision to dismiss the charges followed a software review by The New York Times, which found that students’ devices could automatically generate Canvas activity data even when no one was using them. Dartmouth’s practices were condemned by some alumni along with some faculty at other medical schools.

Interesting NYT is crediting themselves like this, didn't we know about automated Canvas refreshes since very early on when students first got an independent tech consultant?

 

[Banco]

Dartmouth Medical School Drops Online Cheating Cases Against Students (Published 2021)

The Ivy League school said it was dismissing allegations that students had looked up online course materials during remote exams.

www.nytimes.com

Updated NYT Article. Text Below. Emphasis mine:

"Dartmouth’s Geisel School of Medicine says it is dropping an online cheating investigation that led the school to erroneously accuse some students, allegations that prompted an outcry among faculty, alumni and technology experts.

In March, Dartmouth charged 17 students with cheating based on a review of certain online activity data on Canvas — a popular learning management system where professors post assignments and students submit their work — during remote exams. The school quickly dropped seven of the cases after at least two students argued that administrators had mistaken automated Canvas activity for human cheating.

Now Dartmouth is also dropping allegations against the remaining 10 students, some of whom faced expulsion, suspension, course failures and misconduct marks on their academic records that could have derailed their medical careers.

“I have decided to dismiss all the honor code charges,” Duane A. Compton, the dean of the medical school, said in an email to the Geisel community on Wednesday evening, adding that the students’ academic records would not be affected. “I have apologized to the students for what they have been through.”

Dartmouth’s decision to dismiss the charges followed a software review by The New York Times, which found that students’ devices could automatically generate Canvas activity data even when no one was using them. Dartmouth’s practices were condemned by some alumni along with some faculty at other medical schools.

A Dartmouth spokesman said the school could not comment further on the dropping of the charges for privacy reasons. The school’s agreements with the students who had been accused are not yet final, and the students did not immediately return requests for comment.
The cheating investigation turned the pastoral Ivy League campus into a national battleground over escalating school surveillance during the pandemic.

While many universities, including Dartmouth, require students to use special software that locks down their devices during remote exams, Geisel went further by using a second system, Canvas, to retroactively track student activity during remote exams without their knowledge. That was unusual because Canvas was not designed as a forensic tool.

Technology experts said Dartmouth’s use of Canvas raised questions. While some students may have cheated, these experts said, it would be difficult for school administrators to distinguish cheating from noncheating based on the kind of Canvas data snapshots that Dartmouth used.
The case was also notable for Dartmouth’s procedures after the students were accused.

Some of the accused students said Dartmouth had hamstrung their ability to defend themselves. They had less than 48 hours to respond to the charges, were not provided complete data logs for the exams, and were advised to plead guilty though they denied cheating or were given just two minutes to make their cases in online hearings, according to interviews with six of the students and a review of documents.

In an interview in April, Dr. Compton said the school’s methods for identifying possible cheating were fair and valid. Administrators, he said, provided accused students with all the data on which the cheating charges were based. He denied that the student affairs office had advised those who said they had not cheated to plead guilty.

In his email on Wednesday, he took a different tone.

“As we look to the future, we must ensure fairness in our honor code review process, especially in an academic environment that includes more remote learning,” Dr. Compton wrote. “We will learn from this and we will do better.”

Lol Dartmouth knew they effed up bad and are now "settling." Happy for the students who did nothing wrong. For those who did cheat, hope they learn their lesson, stakes are way too high.

 

[Nugester]

“As we look to the future, we must ensure fairness in our honor code review process, especially in an academic environment that includes more remote learning,” Dr. Compton wrote. “We will learn from this and we will do better.”

lol. Maybe they need different leadership.

 

[buffalo bill]

Interesting NYT is crediting themselves like this, didn't we know about automated Canvas refreshes since very early on when students first got an independent tech consultant?

I posted the first NYT article here: MD - Cheating allegations engulf Dartmouth medical school

The NYT did indeed report on that. However, they also hired their own investigative team to evaluate this issue as well. That team came to the same conclusion as the expert hired by that student. This action by the paper likely helped the claims of the students significantly. It is part of why the Times article came out so late in the saga.

On a related note, Natasha Singer, the reporter, is excellent and very thorough in her work. If you ever come across a piece of hers, it is well worth your time to read.

 

[biff_webster16]

Great, so when does somebody get fired?

 

[efle]

Great, so when does somebody get fired?

Sounds like there's already some turnover in their IT department. I'm guessing nobody in admin will take a hit for this, they can just say "our IT misinformed us that this was iron clad proof of cheating, when really it was not"

 

[Lawpy]

Sounds like there's already some turnover in their IT department. I'm guessing nobody in admin will take a hit for this, they can just say "our IT misinformed us that this was iron clad proof of cheating, when really it was not"

Why would the deans remain in their jobs? The main Dean and the associate deans involved should be fired

 

[Lawpy]

I posted that NYT article in the Dartmouth school specific thread. In before the Dartmouth admins come after me

 

[efle]

Why would the deans remain in their jobs? The main Dean and the associate deans involved should be fired

I mean put yourself in their shoes. IT dept tells you they have proof of cheating for a bunch of students. You follow the zero academic dishonesty policy, like you're supposed to. Turns out the IT dept was clueless and this is a bunch of automated refreshes. All you can do is cancel the penalties and apologize. Whoever misunderstood the logs in the first place and said those dozens of students were cheating (later reduced to smaller and smaller numbers of accusations) is where I'd be pointing fingers

 

[Lawpy]

I mean put yourself in their shoes. IT dept tells you they have proof of cheating for a bunch of students. You follow the zero academic dishonesty policy, like you're supposed to. Turns out the IT dept was clueless and this is a bunch of automated refreshes. All you can do is cancel the penalties and apologize. Whoever misunderstood the logs in the first place and said those dozens of students were cheating (later reduced to smaller and smaller numbers of accusations) is where I'd be pointing fingers

The deans jumped to drastic, career affecting conclusions based on incorrect information and assumptions. The IT guys being fired for being incompetent idiots is guaranteed but the deans made a hasty decision and gave their school a very bad look. They should also be fired and replaced.

 

[JustOnePing]

Dartmouth is officially worse than LECOM-Bradenton.

 

[Lawpy]

Dartmouth is officially worse than LECOM-Bradenton.

Wait what did lecom do

 

[DoctwoB]

Interesting question now, what do you do if you're one of the exonerated students? Live and let live? Demand financial compensation? Lawsuit for more compensation?

Personally I would go route number 2. I would want financial compensation for any funds spent on legal or technical representation, plus at least a year of free tuition for the pain and suffering. If the school refused I would consider threatening legal action, though I would understand if individuals just wanted to keep their heads down and not rock the boat further.

 

[Bobblehead]

People reading this thread need to realize they can always hurt you more. Take your win and realize there's a long ways left to go before you're done with training. Before you're board eligible you're completely at the mercy of the system.

 

[altblue]

The deans jumped to drastic, career affecting conclusions based on incorrect information and assumptions. The IT guys being fired for being incompetent idiots is guaranteed but the deans made a hasty decision and gave their school a very bad look. They should also be fired and replaced.

Why are we firing IT for being idiots when they were explicitly asked by the deans to do something out of their realm of expertise?? What would you do if you asked do do something challenging, quit on the spot? Educational tech and maintenance =/= cybersecurity.


Blame Duane Compton et al, the ones who decided to start this mission and act on this data, not somebody with an associate or bachelor's in IT management/Ed tech

 

[Fano]

Administrative heads should roll regardless of IT's role. They handled this badly by treating the accused unfairly and also for their clampdown on students' use of social media. From a PR perspective, they look like a 3rd-rate school with a lot to hide.