Chances for Irish Med Schools (kind of urgent)

[HCN4]

Hello all,

Due to some circumstances I could not apply earlier. And now, I'd like to apply to Irish medical schools.
I requested an application from the Atlantic Bridge Program and it says the deadline is Mar 16th.
I am very unfamiliar with Irish schools because I only heard about them recently and I don't have much time to search for info (midterm season and upcoming app deadline). So it would be great if someone could be give me a very brief response to my questions:
1) Stats in short:
- Canadian, UG @ University of Toronto (physiology specialist and human biology major)
- cGPA = 3.60 (UofT scale) and excluding first year, 3.81. MCAT = 28 (10/10/8, 8 on VR), probably have all the required prereqs (in case I don't want to include my MCAT)
- research in enteroendocrinology (~450 hrs), molecular cardiology (35 hrs), theoretical chemistry (~450 hrs), applied psychology (200 hrs), published 1 review paper, submitted 1 primary paper, in the process of publishing another review, and may be a co-author on another primary paper soon.
- volunteered at a plastic surgery clinic (1100 hrs), dental clinic (40 hrs), miscellaneous community service (110+ hrs)
- established some UG club, 4 awards (academic and research) and countless conferences/poster presentations (national, international and local).
2) I understand I missed the first round for some Irish medical schools, so what are my chances at them (being a second round applicant) and other schools? (Cork, UCD, Limerick, RCSI, NUI, and Trinity)
3) I could not find any Canadian match rates for Irish IMGs, what are the chances for obtaining an internal med spot after I graduate?
4) would it have been any better had I gotten into a USMD school (in terms of a Canadian residency spot)?
5) Ireland vs Australia?

I understand I asked too many questions, but I am just looking for brief yes/no or numerical answers. I would have dug deeper on the forums, but I truly don't have time and I could use some of your help and expertise.

Much appreciated

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[645095]

Hello all,

Due to some circumstances I could not apply earlier. And now, I'd like to apply to Irish medical schools.
I requested an application from the Atlantic Bridge Program and it says the deadline is Mar 16th.
I am very unfamiliar with Irish schools because I only heard about them recently and I don't have much time to search for info (midterm season and upcoming app deadline). So it would be great if someone could be give me a very brief response to my questions:
1) Stats in short:
- Canadian, UG @ University of Toronto (physiology specialist and human biology major)
- cGPA = 3.60 (UofT scale) and excluding first year, 3.81. MCAT = 28 (10/10/8, 8 on VR), probably have all the required prereqs (in case I don't want to include my MCAT)
- research in enteroendocrinology (~450 hrs), molecular cardiology (35 hrs), theoretical chemistry (~450 hrs), applied psychology (200 hrs), published 1 review paper, submitted 1 primary paper, in the process of publishing another review, and may be a co-author on another primary paper soon.
- volunteered at a plastic surgery clinic (1100 hrs), dental clinic (40 hrs), miscellaneous community service (110+ hrs)
- established some UG club, 4 awards (academic and research) and countless conferences/poster presentations (national, international and local).
2) I understand I missed the first round for some Irish medical schools, so what are my chances at them (being a second round applicant) and other schools? (Cork, UCD, Limerick, RCSI, NUI, and Trinity)
3) I could not find any Canadian match rates for Irish IMGs, what are the chances for obtaining an internal med spot after I graduate?
4) would it have been any better had I gotten into a USMD school (in terms of a Canadian residency spot)?
5) Ireland vs Australia?

I understand I asked too many questions, but I am just looking for brief yes/no or numerical answers. I would have dug deeper on the forums, but I truly don't have time and I could use some of your help and expertise.

Much appreciated

Hello,

In response to your post...

1) GPA looks good to me. Your MCAT score is not the highest but I believe can be competitive. Your ECs look great to me and are definitely a plus and could offset lower MCAT, etc.

2) From what I have gathered from other forum threads is that it is possible to apply later in the game and still secure a spot, even after the initial interview dates. Like most things, I bet "sooner the better" still applies.

3) The Atlantic Bridge Program's website has some match data, where you can view what country the person is from and what program they matched to. Not much more data than that on their website, however, if you dig around the UK/Ireland forum threads you can find better data. I can't recall exactly, but I think there is a link to some more recent data on the "US atlantic bridge 2015" forum (I think it includes data from Canadian match, but not certain).

4) I really can't speak to this, but I would assume...yes?

5) Ireland vs. Australia: I think the biggest factor here would be personal choice and highly depends on the programs down there. Generally speaking, it is my understanding that Ireland has been doing this a while and most schools try to cater to the U.S. and Canadian students, knowing most of their objectives. Not sure if all Australian schools would fit the model of going back to Canada so easily, which means it would just be a little bit harder. Try checking the Australian forums, as my first thought would be the flop in seasons and school years would create some difficulty, but some programs like the Queensland/oschner program are set-up for returning to US (maybe some Canadians have attend this program and been successful, I don't know since it is geared to clinical in U.S.).

To sum up: All of this is very personal, no one knows who will be successful or not, seems like the Irish schools are less formulaic on stats and consider the whole person and all of their skills, and you should only apply to the schools that you know if that was the only school that accepted you, that you would actually go to and want to go to. Last bit is just advice and seems to save you some time in the end. Also, all of this is just one person's thoughts and advice. Trust your gut.

With all of that said, I say go for it because you don't know until you try.

 

[petyr_baelish]

OP, USMD schools are LCME accredited which means you would be in the first iteration in CaRMs. Ireland makes you an IMG and you will be in the 2nd iteration (fighting for leftover spots). Try to get EU citizenship through a grandparent if applicable, and Ireland becomes a safer bet (because at least you could apply to Irish internships with a reasonable chance of success.)


Question: I called the Atlantic Bridge and they told me it was too late for dental schools. I guess medical schools have a different deadline then? I find that odd since they start at the same time.

 

[WhiteBreadNButta]

Hello all,

Due to some circumstances I could not apply earlier. And now, I'd like to apply to Irish medical schools.
I requested an application from the Atlantic Bridge Program and it says the deadline is Mar 16th.
I am very unfamiliar with Irish schools because I only heard about them recently and I don't have much time to search for info (midterm season and upcoming app deadline). So it would be great if someone could be give me a very brief response to my questions:
1) Stats in short:
- Canadian, UG @ University of Toronto (physiology specialist and human biology major)
- cGPA = 3.60 (UofT scale) and excluding first year, 3.81. MCAT = 28 (10/10/8, 8 on VR), probably have all the required prereqs (in case I don't want to include my MCAT)
- research in enteroendocrinology (~450 hrs), molecular cardiology (35 hrs), theoretical chemistry (~450 hrs), applied psychology (200 hrs), published 1 review paper, submitted 1 primary paper, in the process of publishing another review, and may be a co-author on another primary paper soon.
- volunteered at a plastic surgery clinic (1100 hrs), dental clinic (40 hrs), miscellaneous community service (110+ hrs)
- established some UG club, 4 awards (academic and research) and countless conferences/poster presentations (national, international and local).
2) I understand I missed the first round for some Irish medical schools, so what are my chances at them (being a second round applicant) and other schools? (Cork, UCD, Limerick, RCSI, NUI, and Trinity)
3) I could not find any Canadian match rates for Irish IMGs, what are the chances for obtaining an internal med spot after I graduate?
4) would it have been any better had I gotten into a USMD school (in terms of a Canadian residency spot)?
5) Ireland vs Australia?

I understand I asked too many questions, but I am just looking for brief yes/no or numerical answers. I would have dug deeper on the forums, but I truly don't have time and I could use some of your help and expertise.

Much appreciated

2) Even though your application is "late" I don't think you would be at much of a disadvantage, this is Ireland, everything here is a bit last minute. If you've got the stronger application I think one of these fine Irish institutions would gladly take you over a less qualified applicant that applied earlier.

3) If you're hard working, dedicated, and willing to go to the States then your chances of getting IM would be excellent. But that mainly depends on you.

4) USMD definitely puts you on better footing for Canada as another poster pointed out.

5) At my university, they don't do a whole lot to prepare us for a return back to North America (nor do I believe that any of the Irish universities do), but there are other students in the class going through the motions as well so you will have your peers to bounce questions off. I would imagine the situation is similar in Australia.

 

[Medstart108]

Hello,

In response to your post...

1) GPA looks good to me. Your MCAT score is not the highest but I believe can be competitive. Your ECs look great to me and are definitely a plus and could offset lower MCAT, etc.

2) From what I have gathered from other forum threads is that it is possible to apply later in the game and still secure a spot, even after the initial interview dates. Like most things, I bet "sooner the better" still applies.

3) The Atlantic Bridge Program's website has some match data, where you can view what country the person is from and what program they matched to. Not much more data than that on their website, however, if you dig around the UK/Ireland forum threads you can find better data. I can't recall exactly, but I think there is a link to some more recent data on the "US atlantic bridge 2015" forum (I think it includes data from Canadian match, but not certain).

4) I really can't speak to this, but I would assume...yes?

5) Ireland vs. Australia: I think the biggest factor here would be personal choice and highly depends on the programs down there. Generally speaking, it is my understanding that Ireland has been doing this a while and most schools try to cater to the U.S. and Canadian students, knowing most of their objectives. Not sure if all Australian schools would fit the model of going back to Canada so easily, which means it would just be a little bit harder. Try checking the Australian forums, as my first thought would be the flop in seasons and school years would create some difficulty, but some programs like the Queensland/oschner program are set-up for returning to US (maybe some Canadians have attend this program and been successful, I don't know since it is geared to clinical in U.S.).

To sum up: All of this is very personal, no one knows who will be successful or not, seems like the Irish schools are less formulaic on stats and consider the whole person and all of their skills, and you should only apply to the schools that you know if that was the only school that accepted you, that you would actually go to and want to go to. Last bit is just advice and seems to save you some time in the end. Also, all of this is just one person's thoughts and advice. Trust your gut.

With all of that said, I say go for it because you don't know until you try.

Ochsner is only for US citizens.

 

[Pinky677]

OP, USMD schools are LCME accredited which means you would be in the first iteration in CaRMs. Ireland makes you an IMG and you will be in the 2nd iteration (fighting for leftover spots). Try to get EU citizenship through a grandparent if applicable, and Ireland becomes a safer bet (because at least you could apply to Irish internships with a reasonable chance of success.)


Question: I called the Atlantic Bridge and they told me it was too late for dental schools. I guess medical schools have a different deadline then? I find that odd since they start at the same time.

Its 2015... They havent done the "no img's in first iteration" thing for years... Theres actually dedicated spots in first iteration just for imgs that cmgs arent allowed to apply for...

You can also get a intern spot as a non-eu, its not guaranteed, and dependson your class ranking but most irish grads, regardless of ciizenship, who applh for intern spots get them. Obviously with eu you get your choice of intern spots, and are pretty much guaranteed one.

 

[Medstart108]

Its 2015... They havent done the "no img's in first iteration" thing for years... Theres actually dedicated spots in first iteration just for imgs that cmgs arent allowed to apply for...

You can also get a intern spot as a non-eu, its not guaranteed, and dependson your class ranking but most irish grads, regardless of ciizenship, who applh for intern spots get them. Obviously with eu you get your choice of intern spots, and are pretty much guaranteed one.

If you get an internship spot are you allowed to go for specialty training as well in Ireland or are there restrictions there?

 

[UBC2014]

Its 2015... They havent done the "no img's in first iteration" thing for years... Theres actually dedicated spots in first iteration just for imgs that cmgs arent allowed to apply for...

You can also get a intern spot as a non-eu, its not guaranteed, and dependson your class ranking but most irish grads, regardless of ciizenship, who applh for intern spots get them. Obviously with eu you get your choice of intern spots, and are pretty much guaranteed one.

W.r.t iterations, IMGs have their own pool of spots for their version of "1st iteration" - but they are limited, and there's an excessive amount of applicants for the few dedicated spots in comparison to the CMG stream (Which USMDs are included in and in some provinces, USDOs as well).

In second round, the left over spots are a free for all - with CMGs who didn't match in their own first round, generally snapping up a lot of spots too.

"For IMGs that CMGS arent allowed to apply for " - i'm sure most of them aren't too concerned lol.

 

[Pinky677]

If you get an internship spot are you allowed to go for specialty training as well in Ireland or are there restrictions there?

You can, but its different then Residency and its a VERY long proccess (1 year intern, 2+ basic specialist training as an SHO, then a few years as a registrar, then a few as an spr). Most of the consultants in ireland, even if they are irish citizens, have done all, or part of their training in NA before coming back. You'll notice alot of the hospital doctors outside of dublin are foreigners (mostly indians, pakistani, malaysian and nigerian)... You should have no issues finding work as an irish trained grad.

 

[Medstart108]

You can, but its different then Residency and its a VERY long proccess (1 year intern, 2+ basic specialist training as an SHO, then a few years as a registrar, then a few as an spr). Most of the consultants in ireland, even if they are irish citizens, have done all, or part of their training in NA before coming back. You'll notice alot of the hospital doctors outside of dublin are foreigners (mostly indians, pakistani, malaysian and nigerian)... You should have no issues finding work as an irish trained grad.

I see, but essentially if you get an internship and most get one assuming their ranked well in the class, you can basically be on the path to consultancy and citizenship even if it takes you 10-15 years or so.

If that is the case its still good news I believe.

 

[Riverpeth]

You can, but its different then Residency and its a VERY long proccess (1 year intern, 2+ basic specialist training as an SHO, then a few years as a registrar, then a few as an spr). Most of the consultants in ireland, even if they are irish citizens, have done all, or part of their training in NA before coming back. You'll notice alot of the hospital doctors outside of dublin are foreigners (mostly indians, pakistani, malaysian and nigerian)... You should have no issues finding work as an irish trained grad.

Could you explain what you mean by "consultant", is that just fully licensed practicing physician?

Also, if one were to complete all of this specialist training in Ireland (7 years or so), would it be possible to practice in Canada, and if so, what would the process involve?

 

[UBC2014]

Could you explain what you mean by "consultant", is that just fully licensed practicing physician?

Also, if one were to complete all of this specialist training in Ireland (7 years or so), would it be possible to practice in Canada, and if so, what would the process involve?

The only training that would allow you to work back in Canada is that of a GP. Anything else is almost zero. Hence why FMGs who already trained In their own countries redo residency in Canada/us. The exception is GP training in common wealth countries- but still a process. See the ccfp website

 

[carlosdynamite]

The only training that would allow you to work back in Canada is that of a GP. Anything else is almost zero. Hence why FMGs who already trained In their own countries redo residency in Canada/us. The exception is GP training in common wealth countries- but still a process. See the ccfp website

That is not true. Here is a listed of approved training jurisdictions that would allow you to work in Canada: http://www.royalcollege.ca/portal/page/portal/rc/common/documents/credentials/jurisdictions_e.html

 

[Riverpeth]

That is not true. Here is a listed of approved training jurisdictions that would allow you to work in Canada: http://www.royalcollege.ca/portal/page/portal/rc/common/documents/credentials/jurisdictions_e.html

Does this apply for all specialties trained in those jurisdictions? Could you explain a little further what this list entails?

 

[UBC2014]

That is not true. Here is a listed of approved training jurisdictions that would allow you to work in Canada: http://www.royalcollege.ca/portal/page/portal/rc/common/documents/credentials/jurisdictions_e.html

It won't open for me, says error occured.

Opened now : All that is a list, there is nothing specific there to go off of.

It definitely isn't as straight forward as FM though, I can gaurantee that.

Training outside of the ACGME for specialities (That is the US and Canada) is definitely going to be much harder to get recognized and work here in Canada.

I'll take a look through the website, but I can gather it will be a multi-year process at best, including supervised practice etc. I don't see anything easily laid out - if you find a link on the royal college site, please post!

EDIT: Found something that is a good starting point: http://www.royalcollege.ca/portal/page/portal/rc/credentials/start/routes

 

[carlosdynamite]

My understanding is that those are licensing jurisdictions that are considered equivalent to Canadian residences for whatever specialities they entail. It's not much harder to recognized, it clearly states which licensing jurisdictions are recognized so you should have no problem if you are licensed from the any of those on the list. You were implying that foreign training was worthless and that all foreign trained doctors, other than FM, had to red0 residency in Canada, which is not true. I don't really think it's a multi-year process at best, it's more like one year of supervised practice. I know personally of a speciality doctor who was trained in Ireland, and is now working in Canada after 1 year of supervised practice. The year of supervised practice was not a big deal, he was basically just working in the same practice as a Canadian doctor, and was still making very good money. It's not the most ideal situation, but not that difficult. Especially if you are already a Canadian citizen.

 

[Medstart108]

The only training that would allow you to work back in Canada is that of a GP. Anything else is almost zero. Hence why FMGs who already trained In their own countries redo residency in Canada/us. The exception is GP training in common wealth countries- but still a process. See the ccfp website

This only applies to the US, in Canada people I believe who've had specialty training in the commonwealth have been able to come to Canada, usually for a fellowship and then stay. I can't confirm it with hard rules but i've seen it in dozens of resumes where the physician did med school and residency abroad in lets say the UK and then did a fellowship in Canada and is now an attending here.

With that being said, that pathway may have been open 10 years ago but is now closed. With the oversupply in many specialties right now, I don't think the pathway is as viable as it was in the past.

 

[UBC2014]

My understanding is that those are licensing jurisdictions that are considered equivalent to Canadian residences for whatever specialities they entail. It's not much harder to recognized, it clearly states which licensing jurisdictions are recognized so you should have no problem if you are licensed from the any of those on the list. You were implying that foreign training was worthless and that all foreign trained doctors, other than FM, had to red0 residency in Canada, which is not true. I don't really think it's a multi-year process at best, it's more like one year of supervised practice. I know personally of a speciality doctor who was trained in Ireland, and is now working in Canada after 1 year of supervised practice. The year of supervised practice was not a big deal, he was basically just working in the same practice as a Canadian doctor, and was still making very good money. It's not the most ideal situation, but not that difficult. Especially if you are already a Canadian citizen.

I just talked to a physician this morning who is a UK specialist and working in Canada now. He came 6 years ago, and said it took about 18 months to get everything sorted out from start to finish. But he also said what medstart stated above, that due to oversaturarion, applications from certain specialties are in back-log holding patterns. He said while eligible, it doesn't mean they will guarantee it or approve it right away. They confer with health Canada. He said if you get a municipality(I.e rural or in need) to vouch/lobby for you its more likely to get it approved.

But that's just 1 doc, it would be interesting to talk to someone who recently arrived.

But either way it still is not as easy or simple as FM that is for sure.

 

[UBC2014]

My understanding is that those are licensing jurisdictions that are considered equivalent to Canadian residences for whatever specialities they entail. It's not much harder to recognized, it clearly states which licensing jurisdictions are recognized so you should have no problem if you are licensed from the any of those on the list. You were implying that foreign training was worthless and that all foreign trained doctors, other than FM, had to red0 residency in Canada, which is not true. I don't really think it's a multi-year process at best, it's more like one year of supervised practice. I know personally of a speciality doctor who was trained in Ireland, and is now working in Canada after 1 year of supervised practice. The year of supervised practice was not a big deal, he was basically just working in the same practice as a Canadian doctor, and was still making very good money. It's not the most ideal situation, but not that difficult. Especially if you are already a Canadian citizen.

Also definitely did not apply training was worthless - just politics. They aren't going to make it easy for specialists to come to Canada if they know their own Canadian specialists are finding it hard to get work. Just protectionism and real life.

 

[Med-DocMont]

Hello all,

Due to some circumstances I could not apply earlier. And now, I'd like to apply to Irish medical schools.
I requested an application from the Atlantic Bridge Program and it says the deadline is Mar 16th.
I am very unfamiliar with Irish schools because I only heard about them recently and I don't have much time to search for info (midterm season and upcoming app deadline). So it would be great if someone could be give me a very brief response to my questions:
1) Stats in short:
- Canadian, UG @ University of Toronto (physiology specialist and human biology major)
- cGPA = 3.60 (UofT scale) and excluding first year, 3.81. MCAT = 28 (10/10/8, 8 on VR), probably have all the required prereqs (in case I don't want to include my MCAT)
- research in enteroendocrinology (~450 hrs), molecular cardiology (35 hrs), theoretical chemistry (~450 hrs), applied psychology (200 hrs), published 1 review paper, submitted 1 primary paper, in the process of publishing another review, and may be a co-author on another primary paper soon.
- volunteered at a plastic surgery clinic (1100 hrs), dental clinic (40 hrs), miscellaneous community service (110+ hrs)
- established some UG club, 4 awards (academic and research) and countless conferences/poster presentations (national, international and local).
2) I understand I missed the first round for some Irish medical schools, so what are my chances at them (being a second round applicant) and other schools? (Cork, UCD, Limerick, RCSI, NUI, and Trinity)
3) I could not find any Canadian match rates for Irish IMGs, what are the chances for obtaining an internal med spot after I graduate?
4) would it have been any better had I gotten into a USMD school (in terms of a Canadian residency spot)?
5) Ireland vs Australia?

Hello
I also applied to Irish med schools for the second round offers cause I just found out about it like in early March.
I call the ABP, they told me the second round applicants are not necessary put on reserve or waitlisted but they'll see if anyone who was offered an acceptance withdraw their applications or don't accept the offer they got. I'm like really scared. Anyway, good luck!

 

[deleted390966]

Hello
I also applied to Irish med schools for the second round offers cause I just found out about it like in early March.
I call the ABP, they told me the second round applicants are not necessary put on reserve or waitlisted but they'll see if anyone who was offered an acceptance withdraw their applications or don't accept the offer they got. I'm like really scared. Anyway, good luck!

How do these "first round" and "second round" work?
Do they have rolling admission?

 

[Vicex]

How do these "first round" and "second round" work?
Do they have rolling admission?

First round offers are sent when the intuition has identified the 'best' candidates. If these candidates reject the offers, then the school will send out subsequent offers until the class if filled.

I'm not sure it's really rolling admissions. The deadline for material (before the 'late date') was back in November, and schools do not start considering until January. Obviously if you turn in your app and supporting materials post-Jan (depending on the school and how late), you're less likely to get in.