carribean MD vs DO?

[chintu]

I am going to apply to med schools next year; however I don't think I will make it to MD but i have a good shot at DO; Is it better to go to a DO school or go to caribbean and do MD? I have no particular interest in DO, i m more concerned about chances of residency in US as well as salary after becoming doctor.

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[Kritenoel]

try this - it's a thread a few pages back that covers this topic.

Link

 

[oceandocDO]

I think there's already a thread on this somewhere. Do a search.

IMO, stay in the states. First, with the restrictions on visas and whatnot that the feds are starting to impose, I feel it's risky to go abroad.

However, dont look at DO school as a backup, for if you give that impression to the admission folks, that you're only there b/c you couldnt make it into MD school, they'll kindly thank you for your application fee and show you the door. Alot of D.O. schools have comparable stats to MD schools, maybe not Harvard, but some state schools. D.O.s traditionally take students with a bit more life experience, ie.. second careers, PAs, nurses, lawyers, PhDs, etc than the typical, cookie-cutter dime-a-dozen bio majors out of State U.

As for salary, this has also been discussed in depth. Insurance billing codes are exactly the same for D.O.s or MDs. In fact, the insurance company usually doesnt even know whether you're an MD or DO when they review your payment request. With being licensed to perform OMM, most D.O.s who use it actually make 5-10% more that MDs in a similar specialty because they can bill for it, as it's fully accepted by insurance companies.

US residency probably wont be a problem in the end with either, but you have more hoops to jump through with the offshore degree. D.O.s have the option of AOA (D.O.) or ACGME (M.D.) residency slots, hence more choices.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[oceandocDO]

sorry, Kritenoel beat me to it.

 

[Dr Sum Day]

Originally posted by mdjd
neither are desirable, but a carib degree will at least keep you away from the "magnetic healing" stigma that will follow these guys for the rest of their natural lives.

good luck with that decision.

Can you tell me why you seem to hate the D.O. degree so much? Bad experience?

 

[tkim]

Originally posted by mdjd
i don't hate the DO degree. it's the perfect alternative for those who are not accepted to any U.S. allopathic programs and are too scared to go offshore. it's just that it's built on such a pathetic and cultist foundation. and the books that the osteopaths sell that attempt to warp it into a respectable profession are laughable at best. have any of you done any research on the founder of your soon-to-be "profession"? or his principles? the first amendment (and possibly antitrust regulation) is the only thing keeping this, homoepathy, naturopathy, chiropracty and other energy therapies alive today.

The difference between any of the above mentioned degrees and an osteopathic degree is that with a DO, one can perform surgery, prescribe meds - and they do.

but the point here is that with a carib degree you can avoid this all this crap and the embarassment of knowing how to "manipulate" and get a residency that's at least as competitive as any do is able to obtain. and retain a little self-respect in the process.

It really does seem to me that you have quite a bias against osteopathy. Actually, it's quite obvious.

here are a few articles to get you started:
Norman Gevitz, Osteopathic Medicine: From Deviance to Difference, in Other Healers where A.T. describes himself as a "magnetic healer."

He also billed himself as a 'lightning bone-setter'. Why? To attract patients. Magnetic healing was big during that time, and *all* of the medical community made whatever claims necessary to bring in patients.

For a balanced view, it should be pointed out that osteopathy - as well as homeopathy, were developed in part as a response to the horrible side-effects and low efficacy of the standard treatments allopaths offered during that time - which included purgatives, blood-letting, and 'coining'. These standard treatments that allopaths offered during that time seem not one iota less quacky as 'magnetic healing'.

Gevitz wrote another book "The D.O.s", which chronicles the emergence of osteopathy against the backdrop of an allopathic community that was hostile to another encroachment to its market. It's well-balanced and an interesting read. Highly recommended.

Osteopathy "stresses a view of the human organism as a self-regulating and self-healing whole...[,] tends to employ surgery and drug treatments less frequently than does allopathy," and, like chiropractic, manipulates the neuromusculoskeletal system "in order to return the various bodily systems to their naturally harmonious state." Eatough v. Albano, 673 F.2d 671, 673 (3d Cir. 1982).

Sounds like a court case of some sort. *shrug*

The lower incidence of surgery and drug prescription amongst osteopaths might be for a variety of reasons, but I do not see where it says that doing such things cause an increased risk, mortality, or morbidity among the patients so treated. Why is that?

to the do's credit, however, WILLIAM G. ROTHSTEIN, AMERICAN PHYSICIANS IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY: FROM SECTS TO SCIENCE 63 asserts that, the new "cults," such as osteopathy, chiropractic and Christian Science, tended to complement rather than challenge scientific medicine. (this is good, in case you were wondering.)

Again, the difference between is that the osteopath can and does perform surgery and prescribe medications. I would hardly lump it with chiropractic and Christian Science.

To the OP: it's quite clear that mdjd is not providing a balanced view in his posts. Take them as you will ...

- Tae

 

[Doc_Thks_JC]

I wanted to reply to some of your comments on osteopathy. I find a defensive and almost militarian type attitude in your ideas on osteopathy. I find this somewhat amusing in that healthcare is an arena that should harbor no harsh feelings toward healers that genuinely care for and use all their powers to heal their patients. Allopathic medicine has had its downfalls throughout much of its history as a previous poster so mentioned. And Osteopathy arose as a route to improved health for patients from these downfalls. One bonus to osteopathic medicine, that is rarely mentioned, is that it is a profession of change. Where allopaths tend to think they are "better" because they are MDs, osteopaths think they are "healers" with the ability to accept change. Much of AT Still's work was to offset the horrendous pharmacology of the time as well as the overall treatment regimens of the allopaths. Yet, today, Osteopaths have recognized the importance of pharmacology to aid the patient when they are ill, and we accepted it! When surgery is the best option, We accept it! When radiotherapy is the best option, we accept it! When chemotherapy is the best option, we accept it! When any community of health shows advancements that will aid the patient, we as osteopaths observe, critique, reference, and accept or reject based on risks and benefits to the patient. Do you as an allopath do the same thing? If you found that by touching your patient with a low back strain, their recovery time doubled or tripled, Would you instill it? I find the sad thing is, most allopaths are not open to such "hocus pocus." Why? Why are you so scared to touch your patients, to show you care? Isn't that what medicine is all about? One thing I have observed as a patient and as a student, is that allopaths are great docs. They are smart, straight arrow, and true to their profession. But a few things they lack. Many I have met, have clinical skills akin to talking to a blank piece of paper. The others think they are too "hotshot" to tell their patient they don't know, afraid it will show a weakness. Yet, many DOs I have worked with have no problem sitting and talking with their patients, even holding their hands during tough times. And most DOs have no problem being honest with their patients about the extent of their knowledge and still letting them know that they will use all they have available to find the answer if it is out there. Sure, I don't agree with every aspect of manipulation nor do I claim it can cure cancer. I do know that some patients like it, and many claim it helps with musculoskeletal disorders and overall health. I would also like to say that Medicine is a huge task that so few are blessed to undertake, and Aid from all in the profession is warranted, needed, and a must to help all in need. Learn from others, Brotherhood and Friendship should not be blocked by different letters after the end of your name.
I wish you all the luck in your profession and life.
God Bless!!!

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

here's my $0.02.......

I applied to 3 Caribbean Schools..... AUC, Ross, and St. George's.
I have gotten into AUC, Ross, and just got back from an interview in Grenada for St. George's. I have also gotten into an osteopathic school.......


Now here is what I think........St. George's is by far the best Caribbean school, and there is no way in hell I'm going to go there over an osteopathic school. Especially over the school I got into. There are severe drawbacks to the Caribbean, and since I have worked in a major U.S. medical school hospital for the last nine years, I have been able to talk to dozens upon dozens of physicians, residents, and medical students. Many of those are on admissions commitees and are attendings of residency programs. The concensus of every one of them is to "go D.O."

I completely concur at this point, and after seeing the school, I know that osteo is the way to go.

In the end, you have to make your own personal decision, and I am not saying that the Caribbean is a "bad idea". But to me, the decision is obvious.

 

[felson]

DO people,
Let's forget this troll who is probably a legal aid flunkie and MD never2B. The public and the medical field know DO and MD are EQUIVALENT. Just ignore his *****ic postings.

 

[skypilot]

I think it is amusing that people are looking so far back into history to justify their criticism of the DOs. Weren't the MDs using mercury to treat patients back then? If so I certainly would have preferred a DO! I believe the Surgeon General of the Army is a DO. Today, (not 100 years ago) DOs are basically the equivalent of MDs and the two branches are moving closer to merging all the time.

 

[Mixmaster]

I used to think that DO was less of a degree but that's because I was a fu$%&# idiot. Don't listen to anyone here! Just read about DO's on the OFFICIAL websites that wont lie. You can see what the holistic approach and OMM are really about. After you read all this and you have the right motives to become a physician, you will probably prefer Osteopathic Medicine. There are some treatments that you will think are genious after you read them, that only D.O.'s are trained to do.
BUT and this is a BIG BUT, if you only care about having recognizable initials after your name then hey go to Timbucktoo and get the M.D. after your name, or even better yet go to those websites that can make you a doctor for $50.
And you know what look at your local hospital and the initials after the name notice that there are tons of D.O.'s and then ask them and the M.D.'s if there is any discrimination. I have never seen a Doctor say that there was. DON'T ask students ask those that are done with school.

 

[Histrionic]

Let's not forget about the CSE, otherwise know as the Clinical Skills Exam. Many programs require FMG's to take the CSE to be accepted. The CSE is only offered once per year and the only location that offers this exam is on the East coast. I am not an FMG, so I do not know all of the details. I would look into this issue if you are concerned.

I am currently rotating in a large county hospital in Southern California with many DO's and MD's. Many of the MD's are FMG's, and all of them talk about the difficulty of getting into residencies in the US, especially California. One particular resident that I work closely with, applied to 60 FP programs and was only invited to one interview. He claimed his USMLE I score is in the 200's. If you really have your mind set on becoming an "MD" and don't mind a more complex residency application process, then I would go to the caribe. I am very happy with my DO training and have not experienced any bias or stigma regarding my training. One would think that California would be more biased towards DO's, considering the history of DO's in this state, but I have yet to experience this. Most of the bias that I have heard about is in the medical student forums.

As far as ostepathic manipulation, my experience in a non-AOA hospital has been that once the nurses and other physicians find out that you perform OMT, they will constantly approach you for treatment, especially following a 12 hour shift. As far as magnet therapy, the only magnet that I am familiar with is located in the MRI machine. I have never actually seen the magnet, but I am certain that it is necessary for optimal results.

 

[Dr Sum Day]

Originally posted by Histrionic
As far as magnet therapy, the only magnet that I am familiar with is located in the MRI machine. I have never actually seen the magnet, but I am certain that it is necessary for optimal results.

 

[skypilot]

Just for fun I checked the faculty list at Hopkins. 5 D.O.s are listed in the following areas:

Oncology
Physical Medicine and Rehab
OBGyn (2)
Opthalmology
Orthopedic Surgery

So just be careful when you insult someone's medical degree. They might be your next professor.

 

[dr. deez]

Originally posted by felson
DO people,
Let's forget this troll who is probably a legal aid flunkie and MD never2B. The public and the medical field know DO and MD are EQUIVALENT. Just ignore his *****ic postings.

This sounds like a reasonable suggestion

 

[Homunculus]

Originally posted by mdjd
the "magnetic healing" stigma that will follow these guys for the rest of their natural lives.

rofl



more! i want more! this stuff is hilarious

Originally posted by dpw68
Are you are med student or soon to be?

i don't think he is-- he's gonna be making the big bucks as a lawyer in cali somewhere lol

 

[LINY]

mdjd:

if you went back to the beginnings of allopathic medicine you too would find interesting "skills" and self proclaimed titles. My advice is that you avoid being so critical until you are out of school and fully able to interact with DOs. Who knows... they may just look better than you.

you are assuming that everyone in a DO program is aiming to be the next A.T. Still- not really the case. Most of us want to be solid physicians who serve their patients well and can offer everything and MD can with additional skills in osteopathic treatment IF NECESSARY-

I hope that someday you will be pleasantly surprised at how great DOs really are-

 

[jhug]

skypilot, with all due respect, i don't think that jdmd will ever need to worry about offending a professor at Hopkins!

 

[Histrionic]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I decided to look into magnet therapy and I found one study that was done by Baylor in Texas which happens to be an "allopathic" institution. I don't believe the study has ever been repeated. Here is the link if your interested.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?db=m&form=6&dopt=r&uid=9365349

 

[kpax18]

It's interesting to see the ignorance of a jd wanna-be, I would think out of all people, they would be the ones doing more research and being knowledgable...
There goes my assumption...