MD & DO Canadian, 36 MCAT, 2.82 cGPA, 2.3 sGPA

[thetimeparadox]

I am a Canadian applicant who graduated with a science degree in 2012 from a well-known public school in Canada. I was wondering what my chances of getting into any MD or DO schools in the U.S. are.

Here are the numbers first.
cGPA 2.82; sGPA 2.3 (no upward trend; ups and downs throughout)
MCAT 2012 27R (VR8/PS9/BS10)
MCAT 2014 36 (VR10/PS13/BS13)
98/90 General Chemistry/Lab after graduating

1 year volunteering in emergency room (3 hours a week)
2 week medical volunteer trip in Central America (full-time)

4 months research in Tropical Medicine lab at a medical school in Asia (wetlab microbiology and cell biology - fulltime)
1.5 years research in Cognitive Neuroscience lab at College (VSTM and EEG - 8hrs a week)
no publications

Most likely 1-2 solid LOR

2 years Coordinator of small christian club in College
80 hours of English-Mandarin interpreting
1 year resident treasurer in dorms
1 year wildlife patrol in Military Service


I was in college from 2008 to 2012, but due to my lack of hardwork, my GPA and first MCAT score was abysmal. After I graduated, I spent time looking for work in the U.S., but my working visa was expired. Afterwhich I returned to my second home country in Asia to serve in the military. I was a wildlife patrol for a year (finish service in a month). During this year, I wanted to provide evidence of my determination and growth. Thus I took chemistry class/lab at a local university during my breaks, finished a half-marathon, and retook the MCAT.

Currently deciding what to do this coming year. I got into a 2 year masters program in molecular medicine in the U.S. and am considering international medical schools (St. George Carribean, etc). Work for a year in a medical related field?

Based on this information, would I even have a shot at any of the DO or perhaps lower-tier MD schools? What would you recommend I do next year?

Thank everyone at SDN so much! Any input is much appreciated!

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[baxt1412]

The GPA has most likely killed any chance at any MD school in the states.

Some DO schools maybe. @Goro ?

 

[el_duderino]

2.8 cGPA, 2.3 sGPA without some incredible upward trend and several semesters/years of 4.0?

Zero chance. Literally none. You need to do years of grade repair or just bite the bullet and go Caribbean.

I'd strongly suggest that you avoid this, though. You have proven to no one, including yourself, that you can actually operate at a consistently high level for any length of time. You need to do this BEFORE you get yourself $150,000 in debt and failing out by the end of your second year.

 

[thetimeparadox]

I appreciate both your replies. So not even a chance for DO schools? I was hoping my MCAT retake score would help significantly.

 

[Lamel]

I'm more surprised that you were able to get a 13 on BS and PS and only have a 2.3 sGPA.

 

[thetimeparadox]

Honestly I skipped half my classes in college, had bad procrastination habits, and also personal problems to deal with (my school also has a lower average, the average cGPA for my graduating year was around 2.7). I was never reaching my full potential I guess? But while I was in the military, I managed to formulate good habits (running) and study consistently everyday for 3 months. Hard work makes all the difference.

 

[el_duderino]

Honestly I skipped half my classes in college, had bad procrastination habits, and also personal problems to deal with (my school also has a lower average, the average cGPA for my graduating year was around 2.7). I was never reaching my full potential I guess? But while I was in the military, I managed to formulate good habits (running) and study consistently everyday for 3 months. Hard work makes all the difference.

So you skipped half your classes. What makes YOU think you would be able to succeed in med school? What makes YOU think you could actually work "at your full potential" for the rest of your life starting now?

Before you can prove it to a medical school, you need to prove it to yourself. Right now you have absolutely no chance whatsoever. But after 2 years of intensive grade repair you might have a shot.

 

[lmn]

Congrats on the great MCAT. I'm not very familiar with international DO application specifics, but my guess would be that it would be your best shot. You can do an informal post-bacc and retake classes for grade replacements so you should be able to raise your gpa in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[thetimeparadox]

Thanks for the feedback jonnythan and Imn. Will getting a masters in molecular medicine help with grade repair? From what I've gathered graduate level course work doesn't affect undergrad GPA right?

 

[V5RED]

1) Start a post Bacc(formal or informal).
2) Retake classes you got a C or lower in because DO schools will replace the old grade with the new one.
3) Take new classes (upper level science preferably) and get all A/A- grades.
4) Once your GPA is up to something close to the average for accepted DO applicants, apply to DO schools.
5) Profit.

Do not, under any circumstances, go Caribbean. Students who enter those schools are in for a terrible time in four years when the number of American graduates catches up to the number of American residencies(based on current trends).

 

[V5RED]

Thanks for the feedback jonnythan and Imn. Will getting a masters in molecular medicine help with grade repair? From what I've gathered graduate level course work doesn't affect undergrad GPA right?

For DO schools, those grades factor into your cGPA and sGPA, for MD schools, they do not.

edit: That said, an undergraduate post bacc is still better since you can retake the undergraduate courses in which you performed poorly.

 

[el_duderino]

Thanks for the feedback jonnythan and Imn. Will getting a masters in molecular medicine help with grade repair? From what I've gathered graduate level course work doesn't affect undergrad GPA right?

No, a master's will not help grade repair. Graduate courses do not affect undergrad GPA.

Grade repair means retaking classes you've done poorly in, thus taking advantage of AACOMAS' grade replacement policy.

 

[zzxxzz]

~1st percentile for GPA for DO applicants. International student. Zero chance for MD or DO. Your MCAT score doesn't matter, because as far as adcoms are concerned you just had a lucky day. Also, having only 1 or 2 decent LOR's - and, based on what you've said, probably none from your undergrad institution - will be a huge red flag.

To everyone asking about grade replacement, AACOMAS calculates your GPA both with and without grade replacement/postbacc work. They do this to catch people like OP, who basically blew off his first four years. Graduate level coursework is nice, but as far as GPA goes it's calculated separately (and not given much weight).

You wanted to provide evidence of your determination and growth by...taking ONE class? Go ahead and re-take all the other prereqs, every other class in which you got below a B-, and 2-3 upper level bio courses. Get As in all of them. Then we can talk about your chances.


Otherwise, go ahead and go to a Caribbean medical school. You'll be able to call yourself an MD. Just don't expect to work as one.

 

[el_duderino]

AACOMAS calculates your GPA both with and without grade replacement/postbacc work.

What? Is that new? It wasn't like that the last two cycles.

 

[V5RED]

~1st percentile for GPA for DO applicants. International student. Zero chance for MD or DO. Your MCAT score doesn't matter, because as far as adcoms are concerned you just had a lucky day. Also, having only 1 or 2 decent LOR's - and, based on what you've said, probably none from your undergrad institution - will be a huge red flag.

To everyone asking about grade replacement, AACOMAS calculates your GPA both with and without grade replacement/postbacc work. They do this to catch people like OP, who basically blew off his first four years. Graduate level coursework is nice, but as far as GPA goes it's calculated separately (and not given much weight).

You wanted to provide evidence of your determination and growth by...taking ONE class? Go ahead and re-take all the other prereqs, every other class in which you got below a B-, and 2-3 upper level bio courses. Get As in all of them. Then we can talk about your chances.


Otherwise, go ahead and go to a Caribbean medical school. You'll be able to call yourself an MD. Just don't expect to work as one.

According to the aacomas instruction manual, "only the last instance of a repeated course is included in GPA calculation"

You can find that manual on Google.

Also, graduate work is definitely part of your overall GPA for DO schools.

http://prospective.westernu.edu/osteopathic/faqs-12/

Why so negative? OP wants help and has been polite so far.

 

[baxt1412]

I wouldn't say anyone is being outright negative. I believe that they are being realistic with OP. Medical school isn't something you can just take lightly... People are raising legitimate concerns as to if OP is truly ready for the high level of academics that medical school entails.


Nobody said "Dude, OP, there is no way you'll make it in med school".. .They are saying "Do you truly think you are ready for this much of a commitment academically? Because looking at your GPA it seems like you've had troubles with commitment before"

 

[el_duderino]

According to the aacomas instruction manual, "only the last instance of a repeated course is included in GPA calculation"

You can find that manual on Google.

Also, graduate work is definitely part of your overall GPA for DO schools.

http://prospective.westernu.edu/osteopathic/faqs-12/

Why so negative? OP wants help and has been polite so far.

AACOMAS apps that go to schools have the following GPAs, each broken down into science, nonscience, total:

Freshman
Sophomore
Junior
Senior
Total Undergad (freshman-sophomore only)
Post-bacc
Cumulative Undergrad (total undergrad + post-bacc)
Graduate
Overall (everything)

 

[V5RED]

AACOMAS apps that go to schools have the following GPAs, each broken down into science, nonscience, total:

Freshman
Sophomore
Junior
Senior
Total Undergad (freshman-sophomore only)
Post-bacc
Cumulative Undergrad (total undergrad + post-bacc)
Graduate
Overall (everything)

Ah. Well, my mistake there. Still, the point about GPA replacement stands.

 

[Pdoc387]

I will take a leap of faith and give a suggestion if you don't mind. 1) Did you ever consider graduate schools? 2) Did you ever think about foreign universities, i.e. Ross and/or SGU?

Here's my analysis of your predicament: A) You can enter a post-bacc and work your way in that way (allopathic and/or osteopathic), B) You can attend graduate school, or C) You can go to a foreign school.

Your MCAT is pretty good and I don't think one person here would suggest that your score is above average for your race/ethnicity. However, as others have suggested, you have no "upward trend", presumably, which can suggest you are "lazy". I would not suggest this if others didn't think of it. I agree with the aforementioned argument on "if you can't commit to undergrad, how can you commit to medicine?"

Look, I won't regurgitate everything everyone has said and I tend to like to be positive, but in this instance, I don't think I can really be optimistic and/or positive about your applications. There is a shot for foreign. Yes, we can argue that the IMG may not have as many opportunities, both here and in Canada, but again, you may want to cross one bridge at a time. What's better: being an IMG with no guaranteed residency or not being a doctor at all? Obviously, much needs to be debated and it is for you to decide what's better. If you were really, really amazing and scored super high on the USMLEs (particularly USMLE I) you may not have this problem of residency, but do take that into consideration.

Personally, if it were me, I would attend a science graduate program. I know others here would disagree, but let me give you a reason as to why...At Georgetown University School of Medicine there is a graduate M.S. program in Physiology and Biophysics. More than 80% of their applicants get in on the first shot. And, to get in, they require a high MCAT. So, it is intended for people just like you: not URMs and people who've had problems with their undergrad. I suggest you look into programs like these.

 

[Pdoc387]

http://som.georgetown.edu/medicaleducation/departments/physiologybiophysics

 

[zzxxzz]

What? Is that new? It wasn't like that the last two cycles.

I meant that schools see your undergrad GPA without any post-bacc changes as well as with it, as most people don't do retakes in subsequent undergrad years. As I understand it, schools will still see all of those Cs in science coursework that didn't make it into the final GPA grade replacement. I misworded that, sorry.

According to the aacomas instruction manual, "only the last instance of a repeated course is
included in GPA calculation"

You can find that manual on Google.

Also, graduate work is definitely part of your overall GPA for DO schools.

http://prospective.westernu.edu/osteopathic/faqs-12/

Why so negative? OP wants help and has been polite so far.

While schools do look at your graduate-level coursework, students are expected to get very high grades. A lot of masters-level coursework at many institutions is fluff.


And this comes up every time someone with a major issue posts a WAMC. People aren't being negative. It's called realism. OP looks like he's turned over a new leaf, but his past mistakes need to be dealt with. One exam doesn't overturn four years of poor classroom performance. Besides, he can go ahead and spend thousands of dollars to apply this cycle regardless of what anyone says.

 

[el_duderino]

I meant that schools see your undergrad GPA without any post-bacc changes as well as with it, as most people don't do retakes in subsequent undergrad years. As I understand it, schools will still see all of those Cs in science coursework that didn't make it into the final GPA grade replacement. I misworded that, sorry.

I don't believe that's correct. If a class is listed as a retake, the first take does not factor into your GPA at all. That's my understanding, at any rate.

 

[Pdoc387]

I meant that schools see your undergrad GPA without any post-bacc changes as well as with it, as most people don't do retakes in subsequent undergrad years. As I understand it, schools will still see all of those Cs in science coursework that didn't make it into the final GPA grade replacement. I misworded that, sorry.




While schools do look at your graduate-level coursework, students are expected to get very high grades. A lot of masters-level coursework at many institutions is fluff.


And this comes up every time someone with a major issue posts a WAMC. People aren't being negative. It's called realism. OP looks like he's turned over a new leaf, but his past mistakes need to be dealt with. One exam doesn't overturn four years of poor classroom performance. Besides, he can go ahead and spend thousands of dollars to apply this cycle regardless of what anyone says.

I would agree and disagree with this statement. It would depend on what the M.S. is in whether or not the coursework is "fluff".

 

[Goro]

No chance for MD or DO.
Your best hopes are to retake all F/D/C science coursework and utilize AACOMAS' grade replacement policy.

OR, do a SMP and and ace it.

I am a Canadian applicant who graduated with a science degree in 2012 from a well-known public school in Canada. I was wondering what my chances of getting into any MD or DO schools in the U.S. are.

Here are the numbers first.
cGPA 2.82; sGPA 2.3 (no upward trend; ups and downs throughout)
MCAT 2012 27R (VR8/PS9/BS10)
MCAT 2014 36 (VR10/PS13/BS13)
98/90 General Chemistry/Lab after graduating

1 year volunteering in emergency room (3 hours a week)
2 week medical volunteer trip in Central America (full-time)

4 months research in Tropical Medicine lab at a medical school in Asia (wetlab microbiology and cell biology - fulltime)
1.5 months research in Cognitive Neuroscience lab at College (VSTM and EEG - 8hrs a week)
no publications

Most likely 1-2 solid LOR

2 years Coordinator of small christian club in College
80 hours of English-Mandarin interpreting
1 year resident treasurer in dorms
1 year wildlife patrol in Military Service


I was in college from 2008 to 2012, but due to my lack of hardwork and depression, my GPA and first MCAT score was abysmal. After I graduated, I spent time looking for work in the U.S., but my working visa was expired. Afterwhich I returned to my second home country in Asia to serve in the military. I was a wildlife patrol for a year (finish service in a month). During this year, I wanted to provide evidence of my determination and growth. Thus I took chemistry class/lab at a local university during my breaks, finished a half-marathon, and retook the MCAT.

Currently deciding what to do this coming year. I got into a 2 year masters program in molecular medicine in the U.S. and am considering international medical schools (St. George Carribean, etc). Work for a year in a medical related field?

Based on this information, would I even have a shot at any of the DO or perhaps lower-tier MD schools? What would you recommend I do next year?

Thank everyone at SDN so much! Any input is much appreciated!

 

[zzxxzz]

Personally, if it were me, I would attend a science graduate program. I know others here would disagree, but let me give you a reason as to why...At Georgetown University School of Medicine there is a graduate M.S. program in Physiology and Biophysics. More than 80% of their applicants get in on the first shot. And, to get in, they require a high MCAT. So, it is intended for people just like you: not URMs and people who've had problems with their undergrad. I suggest you look into programs like these.

"Our minimum undergraduate GPA requirement is a 3.0, and we look for good academic performance in your senior year of college, or in post-bacc programs."
http://smp.georgetown.edu/home/prereqs

They also require three LORs, with two from science professors.

By the way, SMPs like this are very competitive. That's how they can boast such good acceptance rates. Their class average last year was a 32 MCAT and a 3.3 GPA. Those people probably could have gotten into DO programs - and a few MD programs - with no trouble. SMPs are for people with 3.3s to 3.4s, and not too much lower.

I don't believe that's correct. If a class is listed as a retake, the first take does not factor into your GPA at all. That's my understanding, at any rate.

Really? So say you took O-chem sophomore year and bombed it. After replacement, your sophomore year GPA would go up as well as your overall?

 

[V5RED]

I don't believe that's correct. If a class is listed as a retake, the first take does not factor into your GPA at all. That's my understanding, at any rate.

I think it is best if an adcom member at a DO school set this straight.
@Goro

Edit: or someone could just call/email aacomas

 

[Goro]

zzxzz...yes, if you retake a science class and get a higher grade, under AACOMAS' grade replacement policy, your sGPA and cGPA both go up! The first poor grade (or any other) is/are ignored.
So, Orgo F, retake, Orgo B...only the B counts.

or Orgo F, retake, Orgo C, re-retake Orgo A, only the A counts.

capeesh?

I think it is best if an adcom member at a DO school set this straight.
@Goro

Edit: or someone could just call/email aacomas

 

[zzxxzz]

zzxzz...yes, if you retake a science class and get a higher grade, under AACOMAS' grade replacement policy, your sGPA and cGPA both go up! The first poor grade (or any other) is/are ignored.
So, Orgo F, retake, Orgo B...only the B counts.

or Orgo F, retake, Orgo C, re-retake Orgo A, only the A counts.

capeesh?

Thanks. I knew about replacement, etc, just I was under the impression that schools see your old grades but know which have been replaced for the cGPA/sGPA calculations.

 

[Goro]

We do indeed see ALL grades.

Thanks. I knew about replacement, etc, just I was under the impression that schools see your old grades but know which have been replaced for the cGPA/sGPA calculations.

 

[thetimeparadox]

Thank you all for the candid and helpful input. Even if I retake and try DO, international applicants have an additional disadvantage right?

I will do extensive research into Caribbean schools and other international schools (which might be accepted in my second country), of course keeping in mind everyone's warnings.

Really appreciate everyone's help! I will update everyone on where I end up in case it can help any potential applicants.

 

[baxt1412]

Good luck, looking forward to seeing you post some more on the forums. You're of course welcome any time

 

[advair250]

Only chance is doing a second degree, and applying to Canadian schools.

The US is not an option for you since they see everything. Even for DO you need to do years of grade replacement- might as well do a second degree anyways.

A good MCAT is fine, but does not make up an abysmal GPA. Full stop.

Don't waste your money, at least not until you do another two years of course work of 4.0.

 

[Shams al Deen]

Why is everybody saying no chance for the guy. Last year, 8 people applied to US med schools with around a 36/2.8....3 got in. That's 37.5%, about the odds of a normal applicant. Add DO schools and that probably goes to over 50%. I think here at SDN we're a little desensitized to 35+ MCATs, they're great scores and not THAT common in real life lol. OP, I'm not as well-versed in this process as some in this thread (ie Goro, and some med students), but just looking at that AAMC data table there is hope. Here is the data for, 2011-2013 that has a larger sample size and shows 30% acceptance rate with your stats. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2013factstable24.pdf

 

[el_duderino]

Why is everybody saying no chance for the guy. Last year, 8 people applied to US med schools with around a 36/2.8....3 got in. That's 37.5%, about the odds of a normal applicant. Add DO schools and that probably goes to over 50%. I think here at SDN we're a little desensitized to 35+ MCATs, they're great scores and not THAT common in real life lol. OP, I'm not as well-versed in this process as some in this thread (ie Goro, and some med students), but just looking at that AAMC data table there is hope. Here is the data for, 2011-2013 that has a larger sample size and shows 30% acceptance rate with your stats. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2013factstable24.pdf

I applied last year with a 35/2.8 last year. And got in.

However, I posted 32 credits of 3.9 undergrad work from 2011-2013, then 18 credits of 4.0 graduate work in 2013-2014. I also had 53 credits of 3.8 work from back in the day before it fell apart and I dropped out of college.

I imagine that the other two people who got in with a ~36/2.8 had similar stories, where they have demonstrated significant academic achievement in the recent past. There's a big difference between that and just getting a bunch of C's and applying to medical school.

 

[mc3894]

I think that your best option would be to complete the Master's program in Molecular Medicine, and then think about applying. Really prove yourself with the Master's program and show that you have determination and drive, and then you stand a better chance. Your MCAT score is great and will help, but your gpa is going to prevent success as is. After the Master's I would still suggest DO schools, but there is definitely hope.

 

[lmn]

I think that your best option would be to complete the Master's program in Molecular Medicine, and then think about applying. Really prove yourself with the Master's program and show that you have determination and drive, and then you stand a better chance. Your MCAT score is great and will help, but your gpa is going to prevent success as is. After the Master's I would still suggest DO schools, but there is definitely hope.

Our adcom members have told us that they don't consider grad school (master's) gpa's very much because they believe the grades are fluff and you are expected to succeed. A master's is a great way to develop your knowledge in an area your interested in and/or developing a backup career pathway, but it isn't a good way to show that you are prepared for the academic rigors of med school and will not help you prove that.

 

[baxt1412]

Agreed. The Master's program could help, but it won't help you get into an MD school. So... AGAIN... I would take advantage of the DO grade replacement and go that route. You have a few years ahead of you before it would be worthwhile applying, in my opinion. If you have some money to spare, then sure go ahead and apply this cycle I guess. We can't stop you. But again, what makes you think you are ready for medical school if you don't even have an upward trend? You have not shown any desire to learn. Obviously the MCAT shows that you know quite a bit (or you just test really well), but this is a big commitment and if you're going to be applying you need to know that you can get good grades under high stress situations reliably.

 

[masaraksh]

No one has brought this up, but I think it is also a very important point:

You should really, REALLY do some soul searching and figure out if being a doctor is the only single thing you want to do with your life. I'm not kidding. As everyone here has said, you will need at least 1-2 YEARS of 'grade & application REPAIR' + 1yr application cycle (where you're still not just guaranteed to get in btw). After that, its 4 years of intense training + probably 300k debt (because you'd be unlikely to get merit scholarship, and I'm not sure about need-based aid). Then 3-6 years of residency. Then, you'll have to be paying a huge chunk of salary to pay off that debt.

So, really take some time to figure out if this is what you want. Because if having a middle class income & relatively comfortable lifestyle is important to you there are better options that will get you there (much quicker and with less debt/work).

 

[Pdoc387]

I don't believe that's correct. If a class is listed as a retake, the first take does not factor into your GPA at all. That's my understanding, at any rate.

I

Our adcom members have told us that they don't consider grad school (master's) gpa's very much because they believe the grades are fluff and you are expected to succeed. A master's is a great way to develop your knowledge in an area your interested in and/or developing a backup career pathway, but it isn't a good way to show that you are prepared for the academic rigors of med school and will not help you prove that.

(1) I believe this to be a gross generalization. How many adcoms have said this? Where are they located? I'm sorry, but 2 or 3 do not speak for the general populations at large.
(2) Some M.S.'s are fluff, but not all. I strongly take offense to that considering I can say, after 2 M.S.'s, that obtaining one is not easy (at least not in my fields).
(3) Yes, you are expected to succeed, but not everyone does. And if someone made a significant improvement b/n the two points in their life, shouldn't the most recent academic work be considered, especially if it is more rigorous?
(4)"isn't a good way to show that you are prepared for the academic rigors of med school " and undergrad is? I strongly disagree with this statement. There are no facts behind what you are saying and thus, has no basis in reality.

 

[Pdoc387]

"Our minimum undergraduate GPA requirement is a 3.0, and we look for good academic performance in your senior year of college, or in post-bacc programs."
http://smp.georgetown.edu/home/prereqs

They also require three LORs, with two from science professors.

By the way, SMPs like this are very competitive. That's how they can boast such good acceptance rates. Their class average last year was a 32 MCAT and a 3.3 GPA. Those people probably could have gotten into DO programs - and a few MD programs - with no trouble. SMPs are for people with 3.3s to 3.4s, and not too much lower.



Really? So say you took O-chem sophomore year and bombed it. After replacement, your sophomore year GPA would go up as well as your overall?

I don't have personal experience with a lot, but with this one I do. I was not in the aforementioned program, I was in another, but nonetheless, we took similar classes. I have known 7 students with stats below a 3.0, but were accepted. Obviously, they overcame their lack of a 3.0 due to other factors, but I have known students with metrics below a 3.0 that were accepted. Not typical, but it does happen.

 

[zzxxzz]

Why is everybody saying no chance for the guy. Last year, 8 people applied to US med schools with around a 36/2.8....3 got in. That's 37.5%, about the odds of a normal applicant. Add DO schools and that probably goes to over 50%. I think here at SDN we're a little desensitized to 35+ MCATs, they're great scores and not THAT common in real life lol. OP, I'm not as well-versed in this process as some in this thread (ie Goro, and some med students), but just looking at that AAMC data table there is hope. Here is the data for, 2011-2013 that has a larger sample size and shows 30% acceptance rate with your stats. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2013factstable24.pdf

8 white people applied with those stats last year. Higher standards for Asians. 10% acceptance for Asians with those stats.

And, as others have mentioned, those applicants may have had 38s/2.9s, not 36s/2.8s, and may have had graduate coursework. The facts remain:
1) OP has basically straight Cs in the prereqs. 2.3 sGPA is much more alarming than 2.8 cGPA.
2) OP is an international applicant, which significantly hurts his chances.
3) OP has below-average ECs, doesn't have enough LORs, and probably has none from college science professors, which most schools require.

 

[advair250]

Why is everybody saying no chance for the guy. Last year, 8 people applied to US med schools with around a 36/2.8....3 got in. That's 37.5%, about the odds of a normal applicant. Add DO schools and that probably goes to over 50%. I think here at SDN we're a little desensitized to 35+ MCATs, they're great scores and not THAT common in real life lol. OP, I'm not as well-versed in this process as some in this thread (ie Goro, and some med students), but just looking at that AAMC data table there is hope. Here is the data for, 2011-2013 that has a larger sample size and shows 30% acceptance rate with your stats. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2013factstable24.pdf

Before posting, read first.

OP is an international applicant- this means they have absolutely zero chance until they do a few years of 4.0 course work.

 

[Shams al Deen]

Before posting, read first.

OP is an international applicant- this means they have absolutely zero chance until they do a few years of 4.0 course work.

Didn't know there was that big of an international bias, no need for the hostility bro.

Bottom line people with his stats have gotten in at a 30% clip over the last 3 years, it seemed reasonable to conclude that he had well over a zero percent chance, even with the intl status. However the canadadian background plays a big factor apparently. And it's funny, I just looked at @jonnythan thread about his chances when he was applying with similar stats and everyone said no shot at MD. Well he says he got accepted to MD this cycle. Granted, OP is Canadian and doesn't have an upward trend. So if it were me, I'd spend a couple semesters getting 4.0s and then apply.

 

[el_duderino]

Also: 2.3 sGPA.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

This chart shows just how dead in the water OP would be with his current GPA (from this article). 13% acceptance rate for international students compared to 42-44% for americans.

EDIT: didn't put in the right chart link. this should work now.

 

[lmn]

I



(1) I believe this to be a gross generalization. How many adcoms have said this? Where are they located? I'm sorry, but 2 or 3 do not speak for the general populations at large.
(2) Some M.S.'s are fluff, but not all. I strongly take offense to that considering I can say, after 2 M.S.'s, that obtaining one is not easy (at least not in my fields).
(3) Yes, you are expected to succeed, but not everyone does. And if someone made a significant improvement b/n the two points in their life, shouldn't the most recent academic work be considered, especially if it is more rigorous?
(4)"isn't a good way to show that you are prepared for the academic rigors of med school " and undergrad is? I strongly disagree with this statement. There are no facts behind what you are saying and thus, has no basis in reality.

You can believe your MS was hard, and it very well may have been. But it doesn't matter in the least if adcoms don't consider it to be. And would you like to show any evidence of adcoms saying that masters are strongly considered? If not, you don't necessarily have much to stand on.

 

[el_duderino]

PDoc has a significant personal interest in adcoms regarding graduate degrees highly. He has, IIRC, three of them.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

As others have said, you currently have zero chance at US MD/DO schools. Even with a 3.0+, a 36 does not automatically make you competitive (even at DO schools). Especially being Canadian, at least at my school, you are held to higher standards.

Retake, retake, and retake. If you think you're now capable of medical school, you need to fix your grades to show that you've turned yourself around. Especially make sure you retake any C- coursework, because some schools do not accept that as a passing grade.

 

[zzxxzz]

And it's funny, I just looked at @jonnythan thread about his chances when he was applying with similar stats and everyone said no shot at MD.

You were able to search back to find his WAMC thread, but didn't take the time to read his previous post in this thread?

I applied last year with a 35/2.8 last year. And got in.

However, I posted 32 credits of 3.9 undergrad work from 2011-2013, then 18 credits of 4.0 graduate work in 2013-2014. I also had 53 credits of 3.8 work from back in the day before it fell apart and I dropped out of college.

I imagine that the other two people who got in with a ~36/2.8 had similar stories, where they have demonstrated significant academic achievement in the recent past. There's a big difference between that and just getting a bunch of C's and applying to medical school.

He demonstrated a strong improvement over several years after initial hardship. OP retook took a single class. Not remotely related.




And let's not get into a discussion of graduate degrees again. Based on previous threads, we all know certain people on this forum will deny any adcom bias against graduate coursework, even when adcoms themselves post and admit it.

 

[el_duderino]

I should note that my BCPM was 3.62. A science GPA of 2.3 is less than compelling when pretty much 100% of the curriculum at medical school is science.