Board Studying in 2021?

[blastoff]

How is everyone studying for boards? I am primarily using PMR recap with some review of Cuccurullo mixed in along with as many question banks I can get my hands on. What is everyone else doing? For those have taken it within the last year or two how has PMR recap faired for boards? What other advice do people have for boards?

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[Iamnew2]

How is everyone studying for boards? I am primarily using PMR recap with some review of Cuccurullo mixed in along with as many question banks I can get my hands on. What is everyone else doing? For those have taken it within the last year or two how has PMR recap faired for boards? What other advice do people have for boards?

I used Cucurullo, and question banks. Cucurullo was probably the most helpful. I wouldn't go overboard on materials though. Pick a few good resources and stick with them. Have never heard of PMR recap.

 

[Slowpoke]

I used Cucurullo, and question banks. Cucurullo was probably the most helpful. I wouldn't go overboard on materials though. Pick a few good resources and stick with them. Have never heard of PMR recap.

PMR recap is our generation's cucurullo.

 

[j4pac]

Cuccurolo had the majority of content. The key is to know EVERYTHING in the book. Even the stuff that doesn’t seem high yield. Then I’d definitely know the big conceptual stuff. It’s a tough test. I think a good majority feel they fail it after taking.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

I've heard from several folks that PM&R Recap was not great after they took the exam. All passed, but said Qbanks supplimented with Cucc were more helpful.

 

[runfastnow]

Cucc x 2-3 reads + AAPMR question bank was gold for me. Did very well on exam - but yes, you will feel like you failed and wonder why 30% of the questions are relevant to medicine/PM&R in the 2020s.

 

[Iamnew2]

Cucc x 2-3 reads + AAPMR question bank was gold for me. Did very well on exam - but yes, you will feel like you failed and wonder why 30% of the questions are relevant to medicine/PM&R in the 2020s.

A lot of irrelevant and obscure/pointless questions I would agree. Oral boards was even more pointless. We should get rid of that exam. $1900 for what exactly? So glad that I took it remotely at least and didn't have to fly to MN at least. Are they still doing oral boards remotely?

 

[j4pac]

A lot of irrelevant and obscure/pointless questions I would agree. Oral boards was even more pointless. We should get rid of that exam. $1900 for what exactly? So glad that I took it remotely at least and didn't have to fly to MN at least. Are they still doing oral boards remotely?

It was held virtually again this year. I suspect that it will continue to be held in that fashion. Sad because it hurts Mayo’s oral board course, which is actually really good. I doubt they’ll stop doing the oral boards if they haven’t stopped during COVID.

The fail rate was really high last year (about 14%) after being about 5% per year before. Probably a number of events that led to that...Covid, changing in test structure, changing to virtual format, lack of an in person board review course, etc. I’d hope that the test goes back to being about 5% failure rate...but we’ll see.

 

[Iamnew2]

It was held virtually again this year. I suspect that it will continue to be held in that fashion. Sad because it hurts Mayo’s oral board course, which is actually really good. I doubt they’ll stop doing the oral boards if they haven’t stopped during COVID.

The fail rate was really high last year (about 14%) after being about 5% per year before. Probably a number of events that led to that...Covid, changing in test structure, changing to virtual format, lack of an in person board review course, etc. I’d hope that the test goes back to being about 5% failure rate...but we’ll see.

When you say fail rate was 14% - do you mean 2020? or 2021? in 2021 was it held in may? I took it in late 2020. I thought that was the first time it was held virtually.

 

[j4pac]

When you say fail rate was 14% - do you mean 2020? or 2021? in 2021 was it held in may? I took it in late 2020. I thought that was the first time it was held virtually.

Forgive me...the fail rate of the oral board from 2020 was over 17%. That's just insane. Compare that to a 4% failure rate when looking at the the 2020 written boards. When the fail rate is that high...especially when has been about 4-5% historically...that's a problem. I guess they could say that students didn't study as much or weren't as well prepared because of COVID...but you can't ignore that changes to the test itself accounted for the majority of the descrepancy. That is especially true when you see that there wasn't a change in the written board fail rate in spite of COVID. If the failure rate is again 17% for 2021...people should absolutely be throwing a fit. It's already borderline unethical to have an oral board and take people's money in the first place (when many other specialities do not)...but then to ask for over 15% of that group to pay out again because of the test itself? That's a big problem.

ABPMR - Exam Statistics

www.abpmr.org

 

[Iamnew2]

Forgive me...the fail rate of the oral board from 2020 was over 17%. That's just insane. Compare that to a 4% failure rate when looking at the the 2020 written boards. When the fail rate is that high...especially when has been about 4-5% historically...that's a problem. I guess they could say that students didn't study as much or weren't as well prepared because of COVID...but you can't ignore that changes to the test itself accounted for the majority of the descrepancy. That is especially true when you see that there wasn't a change in the written board fail rate in spite of COVID. If the failure rate is again 17% for 2021...people should absolutely be throwing a fit. It's already borderline unethical to have an oral board and take people's money in the first place (when many other specialities do not)...but then to ask for over 15% of that group to pay out again because of the test itself? That's a big problem.

ABPMR - Exam Statistics

www.abpmr.org

Yeah I looked at that when you mentioned the fail rate and was shocked - that’s the year I took it and while I passed I was worried for a moment. It was pure BS and felt it was irrelevant and completely subjective. Complete waste of time and money. Agreed it’s unethical - should be done away with. We should start a petition.

 

[runfastnow]

Yeah I looked at that when you mentioned the fail rate and was shocked - that’s the year I took it and while I passed I was worried for a moment. It was pure BS and felt it was irrelevant and completely subjective. Complete waste of time and money. Agreed it’s unethical - should be done away with. We should start a petition.

Yes - the current mediocre exam books out there are not designed for the new format and then ABPMR released a new format with very short notice on the 2020 exam people.

If you used the current books and just mindlessly hit HPI, PMH, PSH, FH, etc. "bullet points" Step 2 style then you 100% would have failed. Which I assume many people did.

 

[Iamnew2]

Yes - the current mediocre exam books out there are not designed for the new format and then ABPMR released a new format with very short notice on the 2020 exam people.

If you used the current books and just mindlessly hit HPI, PMH, PSH, FH, etc. "bullet points" Step 2 style then you 100% would have failed. Which I assume many people did.

I took the 2020 exam with the new format and passed. We did indeed get very short notice of the changes, but dont think that the changes were that drastic from prior. I also took it virtually which was nice - would have hated to spend another $1000 plus on flight, hotel, etc. I started studying in like March then Covid hit and they cancelled it so I stopped. Then studied for maybe like 3 weeks - from the one book with the cases and passed. The vast majority of the exam it seems like you couldn't really prepare for becuase I felt it was just so incredibly random. Lots of subjective pointless questions. Still don't see what the point of it was. I also had technical difficulties and couldn't see the second set of examiners. So glad I passed though. Would be pissed if I had to spend another $1900 for that nonsense. I think progressively though change is happening - step 1 has become P/F, they have done away with the nonsense that step 2 CS was - now we have to get rid of this ridiculous thing. And the PIP!!

 

[Sea Otter]

Anyone have any experience with the Mayo Clinic PM&R Board Review: Clinical Knowledge Review? It is $500 and all online. I have extra education money that I have to use before graduating residency in a month so the cost isn't an issue. Just curious if the course is worth the time.

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[Sea Otter]

Yes - the current mediocre exam books out there are not designed for the new format and then ABPMR released a new format with very short notice on the 2020 exam people.

If you used the current books and just mindlessly hit HPI, PMH, PSH, FH, etc. "bullet points" Step 2 style then you 100% would have failed. Which I assume many people did.

I took the 2020 exam with the new format and passed. We did indeed get very short notice of the changes, but dont think that the changes were that drastic from prior. I also took it virtually which was nice - would have hated to spend another $1000 plus on flight, hotel, etc. I started studying in like March then Covid hit and they cancelled it so I stopped. Then studied for maybe like 3 weeks - from the one book with the cases and passed. The vast majority of the exam it seems like you couldn't really prepare for becuase I felt it was just so incredibly random. Lots of subjective pointless questions. Still don't see what the point of it was. I also had technical difficulties and couldn't see the second set of examiners. So glad I passed though. Would be pissed if I had to spend another $1900 for that nonsense. I think progressively though change is happening - step 1 has become P/F, they have done away with the nonsense that step 2 CS was - now we have to get rid of this ridiculous thing. And the PIP!!

Any advice for how you'd recommend studying for oral boards moving forward given the changes?

 

[Iamnew2]

Any advice for how you'd recommend studying for oral boards moving forward given the changes?

I don't know if there are any additional changes. Changes that were put in place from what I can remember is that they just didn't give you the answers to questions for the history. For the portion you can prepare it's like pretty basic - ask the right questions for a full complete history, just like you would in a typical patient encounter, come up with a good physical exam, a good differential diagnosis. For the parts you can't prepare for - the nonsense, or the subjective questions that differnet people would answer differently and that shouldn't be part of the exam. As mentioned I studied from that one book (I think it's a blue book - PM&R study for the boards or something like that) that had like 20 cases and studied from that. I initially also looked at the book by Dr. Meyer from Hopkins but didn't find it that useful ultimately and stopped reading it.
So I would say pick one resource that you like, and study from that. Be thorough, think through what they are telling you, ask good questions, and like I said come up with a good physical exam and differential diagnosis. Hopefully they continue the online version as opposed as to the in person format. I think it helps - at least for me in addition to the massive cost savings, I think I would have felt more uncomfortable being in person.

 

[runfastnow]

Any advice for how you'd recommend studying for oral boards moving forward given the changes?

You still need to remember to ask the "check box" questions but as above poster states they don't answer the questions as you go along - you are given the information they want you to have regardless of your questions. The gist of the changes they made IMO is knowing the "why" or having logic behind your "check box" questions and being able to logically think through differential diagnoses/testing/management as more information is presented to you - i.e. real life.

You don't have to be necessarily on the right path initially with differentials or what you think the most likely diagnosis is (I was certainly way off on one in my exam), but be able to logically walk through common PM&R diagnoses/problems from presentation through management and patient counseling ... not just blindly going through check boxes to collect enough "points" regardless of logic (which in my interpretation is what the previous version of the test was based on).

The most useful book (by far) I found for studying is this one: Amazon product

The green/blue one is ok too.

 

[Iamnew2]

That's the book I didn't find useful. Sorry I mispelled his name - Mayer not Meyer. Also the "counseling" in this test is garbage - way too subjective.

 

[j4pac]

Any advice for how you'd recommend studying for oral boards moving forward given the changes?

Watch the ABPMR videos...all of them. They go into pretty good detail on what to expect. Wasn’t easy but Not many surprises. Get a study partner and practice cases on a regular basis. I’d have your partner probe during each section. Then review the case afterward to figure out ways you could have improved. The PMR QBANK format was not up to date, but I still think it was pretty valuable. Had tons of cases. I read PMR Oral Boards made easy. It was pretty good and the format was updated. I liked Mayo’s board review course...they prep you well on clinical knowledge and talk test gamesmanship throughout.

 

[blastoff]

I've heard from several folks that PM&R Recap was not great after they took the exam. All passed, but said Qbanks supplimented with Cucc were more helpful.

Going to get this thread back on topic lol. So is that what people are getting? PMR recap not as good for boards? I would also like to know about the Mayo Online review course? Any inside on that?

 

[Iamnew2]

Going to get this thread back on topic lol. So is that what people are getting? PMR recap not as good for boards? I would also like to know about the Mayo Online review course? Any inside on that?

I think the consensus is pretty clear:
Cucc is prob the best resource.
Mayo course -per what others have said (I never did it), including jpac4, seems to be a good option and apparently is online now
PMR recap does not seem to be that great

I'd say that the PM&R Q bank is pretty good - kinda pricey, but I think worth it.

 

[Ogliodendrocyte]

I had a 15% improvement on my subsequent SAE using Recap alone. At least recap gives you ways to memorize the content in an understandable way vs curc which is so dry hardly anything I read in that damn book sticks. Definitely doesnt have everything but I say it gets your bases well covered

 

[Iamnew2]

I had a 15% improvement on my subsequent SAE using Recap alone. At least recap gives you ways to memorize the content in an understandable way vs curc which is so dry hardly anything I read in that damn book sticks. Definitely doesnt have everything but I say it gets your bases well covered

I would agree with jpac4 that the test was hard. Lots of obscure things, lots of what? type questions. cucc is dry, but lots of good stuff. i had to read the book multiple times, although didn't get through it all - not even once. some questions you really can't prepare for no matter how much studying you do.

 

[Ogliodendrocyte]

I would agree with jpac4 that the test was hard. Lots of obscure things, lots of what? type questions. cucc is dry, but lots of good stuff. i had to read the book multiple times, although didn't get through it all - not even once. some questions you really can't prepare for no matter how much studying you do.

Exactly. The really minute factoids that maybe a small percentage will guess correctly on, I'm cool with missing if I'm getting questions without second guessing that most people should know

 

[Iamnew2]

Exactly. The really minute factoids that maybe a small percentage will guess correctly on, I'm cool with missing if I'm getting questions without second guessing that most people should know

Well some questions are also subjective - and some questions per my understanding, if a lot of people get them wrong are thrown out. I think some residents make the mistake of studying from too many resources which can complicate things. I think sticking to one resource - and knowing it well - is the best thing one can do. I didn't read Cucc during residency so for me it was harder - prob should have read through it. But at the end of the day I think Cucc is the most complete resource.

 

[Momentum70]

Im going to disagree with the people that said pmr recap was not good. I used it for written and oral boards. Full disclosure I failed written multiple times in a row before I was able to pass.
1st time(appendix ruptured and was in hospital last week of july and recovering when took exam, probably should have contacted board and postponed
2nd time Used mainly cuccurello and some old SAE......fail
3rd time went to UW board review, pmrqbankreview and above...fail
(although i was caught a little off guard that they banned using a scratch sheet of paper and only had online which was impossible to do things like draw out plexus or force diagrams for prosthetics, I wrote to abpmr to complain and I think others did also because they brought back scratch paper the next year)


This time I passed I did use pmr recap and question banks and was just over 50th percentile. I found the high yield lecture videos really good, the questions not so much. The question banks you can buy from AAPMR are pretty good I thought as we as old SAE questions. Also make sure to do the practice questions ABPMR has. I know I got one answer right because of a very similar question on it.

As for oral boards just go the results a few days ago and I passed finally getting something on first try. As others said some of the older books everyone used are a little outdated. WATCH THE OFFICIAL VIDEOS MULTIPLE TIMES. Why do I say this, because it really gives you a great read on what the examiners will act like and what you are expected to say. Also PRACTICE a lot with a friend for orals, especially if you are someone that gets nervous. It doesnt even have to all be with a pmr friend. PMR Recap has a lot of cases I used along with the books. I would have my wife who is a therapist pretend to be the examiner.

 

[rehab ready]

Re the useless PM&R oral boards...
someone started a petition on change.org to try and get rid of it. Several other specialties have already done away with oral boards. Here's the link or you can google it.

Sign the Petition

Eliminate Oral Board Examinations for ABPMR Initial Certification

www.change.org

 

[Iamnew2]

Re the useless PM&R oral boards...
someone started a petition on change.org to try and get rid of it. Several other specialties have already done away with oral boards. Here's the link or you can google it.

Sign the Petition

Eliminate Oral Board Examinations for ABPMR Initial Certification

www.change.org

I signed it. Everyone please sign it as well. Cancelling step 2 CS was a great catalyst to abolishing useless tests that do nothing to truly test clinical competency or for patient safety. Other specialties have abolished their oral boards - let’s get with the program!