Best way to USUHS

[GAdoc]

I will be interviewing at USUHS on Feb. 2 (that's next Thursday). I'm not at all familiar with the D.C. area. I'm flying in to Reagan because of info. I received on this site. I'm staying at the American Inn at Bethesda. We have to be at the interview kind of early. So here are a couple questions:

1. I think I can make it on the Metro to the right stop, but how should I actually proceed to the correct building on base?

2. I'm not 100% sure my National Security forms we're required to bring are completed correctly. Is there some way to do it there (for those of us that are not as computer savvy)?

3. Does anyone know students accepted to USUHS with an interview this late? I really want to get in, but my interview is kind of late. Plus, my credentials aren't stellar. My MCAT is 27P, GPA 3.56 (but in biomedical engineering), no military experience, LOTS of extra curriculars and volunteering, and GREAT letters of recommendation including one from a nurse/corpral who taught at USUHS.

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[Galo]

Why after reading some of the material here you would even consider continuing in that course is beyond me.

There are many other medical schools that may accept you if you really want to be a physician.

This I think is why I have not wasted 6 months gathering up all my material and writing a book. It seems to fall on deaf ears.

Poverty is not an excuse. You can get loans, you'll owe alot, but you'll pay it off without having to give up your civil rights, and being treated like a piece of meat.

Read this forum closer!!

Galo

 

[GAdoc]

Why after reading some of the material here you would even consider continuing in that course is beyond me.

There are many other medical schools that may accept you if you really want to be a physician.

This I think is why I have not wasted 6 months gathering up all my material and writing a book. It seems to fall on deaf ears.

Poverty is not an excuse. You can get loans, you'll owe alot, but you'll pay it off without having to give up your civil rights, and being treated like a piece of meat.

Read this forum closer!!

Galo

I assure you I've read the forum closely. I understand that there are many good and bad aspects of a military education. I've currently been accepted to PCOM, a very reputable osteopathic school. Additionally, I am waiting to hear from Mercer School of Medicine and Morehouse School of Medicine, both of whom I've interviewed with. I do realize that I have a good chance of being accepted to either or both. I am not afraid of the loans. Military medicine is NOT for everyone, I understand. Maybe even not for most. But it is for some. I am not 100% sold on it. I have a wife and I want what is best for us. But I'm at least willing to go to the interview and consider other perspectives.

If anyone is willing to answer my question I'd appreciate it. I may be idealistic and naiive, but I also have a strong sense of duty to my country and a desire to become a physician. Hopefully, USUHS will fulfill both desires.

 

[grumbo]

Some people want to fix the military health system from the outside with a war of attrition (Galo, MilMD, etc.), and others of us feel we can help from the inside.

As for interview directions, when you get off of the medical center metro stop, there are several areas to wait for buses. Every 15 minutes or so, there is a small shuttle that goes straight to USUHS (just look for the sign on the side of the shuttle). If you don't think you'll catch it or don't want to wait, just make a U-turn when you get off the metro escalator, and you'll be walking toward NNMC and USUHS. Go through the gate and just ask the guards for directions. USUHS is about 1/2 from the gate.

As far as getting accepted, you're likely interviewing for a waitlist spot. And your best bet of getting off the waitlist is to choose Army. You're chances aren't as good as they wouldn't have been 2 months ago, but you still probably have a chance.

 

[st0rmin]

Why after reading some of the material here you would even consider continuing in that course is beyond me.

There are many other medical schools that may accept you if you really want to be a physician.

This I think is why I have not wasted 6 months gathering up all my material and writing a book. It seems to fall on deaf ears.

Poverty is not an excuse. You can get loans, you'll owe alot, but you'll pay it off without having to give up your civil rights, and being treated like a piece of meat.

Read this forum closer!!

Galo

Obviously, the OP has made the decision to interview at USUHS. So maybe, rather than berating them you could provide helpful information the OP requested.

To answer the questions:
1. I think I can make it on the Metro to the right stop, but how should I actually proceed to the correct building on base?

- Yes, take the metro from Bethesda to Medical Center on the red line. When you get to the top of the escalators you will see the National Naval Medical Center. You can either walk to campus (0.5 mile walk) or ride one of the school shuttle buses. There is usually a green 15 passenger van with the USUHS logo on the side or a white passenger bus at the first bus stop at the top of the metro station. There are signs on campus that direct you to the correct building. When in doubt, ask. People on campus are friendly and will be more than happy to direct you.

2. I'm not 100% sure my National Security forms we're required to bring are completed correctly. Is there some way to do it there (for those of us that are not as computer savvy)?

- There is someone there to help you with the forms. I would suggest that you get comfortable using computers quickly. Almost all of our documentation in the hospitals is on computers. I have rarely used a paper chart during the last 4 years of school.

3. Does anyone know students accepted to USUHS with an interview this late? I really want to get in, but my interview is kind of late. Plus, my credentials aren't stellar. My MCAT is 27P, GPA 3.56 (but in biomedical engineering), no military experience, LOTS of extra curriculars and volunteering, and GREAT letters of recommendation including one from a nurse/corpral who taught at USUHS.

- Yes, there are several people in my class who interviewed on the last interview day with me. They will tell you during your orientation that all of the slots are filled, but there are always openings with people accepting slots at other schools, etc. You're credentials aren't the best but they look at the whole picture when interviewing. Great LORs can only help (though I'm not sure about a corpral?) The most important thing you can do if you want to go to USUHS this late in the game is to make sure that you get your physical and whatever other things ask turned in AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. If your stuff is in before someone else's you will move up on the list.

Hope that is useful. PM me if you have other questions.

 

[Galo]

Perhaps putting it in different terms may help.

OP is asking what would be akin to having an elective open cholecystectomy. A procedure that hardly anyone, (except some military surgeons I personally know of), would do electively. I am trying to point out, (amongst others with extensive personal experience), that the standard of care is a laparocopic cholecystectomy, and all the reasons why.

Now if given all that knowledge, he can make a better informed decision, then he can live with his choice knowing that he had all the information available to him.

It is abundantly clear, that a lap chole is much better than an open chole. It is abundantly clear that military medicine is a disaster. I can understand him wanting to explore it for some of the same reasons I did. But I did not have the knowledge that I do now. Military medicine changed dramatically from the point I took my scholarship to the point I came into it.

So sorry, if you feel berrated, but it just seems so clear based on what everyone is saying, that it is the POOREST of options.

As far a changing the system from the inside. I feel for you. I've seen and met guys like you who really think they can make a difference. I hope you can. But you won't. You are up against so much that you as an individual can really not make much of a difference, other than to perhaps the people you command.

I know that anger is alot of what fuels me on this issue, but I am not the only one. Like I've said. If you have all this info, and you still choose to become a part of that system, perhaps you will flourish in it, but never as a good physician.

OUT

 

[GAdoc]

Perhaps putting it in different terms may help.

OP is asking what would be akin to having an elective open cholecystectomy. A procedure that hardly anyone, (except some military surgeons I personally know of), would do electively. I am trying to point out, (amongst others with extensive personal experience), that the standard of care is a laparocopic cholecystectomy, and all the reasons why.

Now if given all that knowledge, he can make a better informed decision, then he can live with his choice knowing that he had all the information available to him.

It is abundantly clear, that a lap chole is much better than an open chole. It is abundantly clear that military medicine is a disaster. I can understand him wanting to explore it for some of the same reasons I did. But I did not have the knowledge that I do now. Military medicine changed dramatically from the point I took my scholarship to the point I came into it.

So sorry, if you feel berrated, but it just seems so clear based on what everyone is saying, that it is the POOREST of options.

As far a changing the system from the inside. I feel for you. I've seen and met guys like you who really think they can make a difference. I hope you can. But you won't. You are up against so much that you as an individual can really not make much of a difference, other than to perhaps the people you command.

I know that anger is alot of what fuels me on this issue, but I am not the only one. Like I've said. If you have all this info, and you still choose to become a part of that system, perhaps you will flourish in it, but never as a good physician.

OUT

I appreciate all of the feedback...even Galo. But let me ask, did any of you join the military or have you known anyone who joined knowing EVERY fact about what their life would be like? I could read every post on this and any other forum and still not be fully prepared to make a 100% informed decision. But that is why I ask for opinions and that is why I'm going to the interview. The military is a fact of American life. People can either volunteer and it will stay voluntary, or we can thumb our noses at it and they may force us to serve. I'm not after a lucrative career as a civilian CT surgeon, neurosurgeon, etc. etc. I'm not in it for the money.

I made a mistake. My reference letter is not from a corporal, but a colonel (I know that's a big oversight, I won't let it happen on interview day). Also, I'm not totally inept using a computer. I should've made it more clear that my 1998 technology lap-top is SLOW and shuts itself off and on periodically. I can't service it myself because I'm not computer savvy.

I listed Air Force as top choice, but put the same rating on my willingness to join either the Air Force or Army. We'll see what happens. Thanks for the info.

 

[RichL025]

Perhaps putting it in different terms may help.
It is abundantly clear that military medicine is a disaster.
OUT

Galo,

You've eloquently made your case for what you fell is wrong with AIR FORCE medicine, NOT "military medicine".

Matter o' fact, the three or four other compadres you have (I believe you called them kindred souls) were also from the AIR FORCE.

To help you with your "lap chole" analogy, above, I would not go shadow a urologist to learn about general surgery....


Please QUIT with your broad polemics and restrict your comments to that what you know about.

 

[militarymd]

Galo,

You've eloquently made your case for what you fell is wrong with AIR FORCE medicine, NOT "military medicine".

Matter o' fact, the three or four other compadres you have (I believe you called them kindred souls) were also from the AIR FORCE.

To help you with your "lap chole" analogy, above, I would not go shadow a urologist to learn about general surgery....


Please QUIT with your broad polemics and restrict your comments to that what you know about.

I'm in the Navy.....or was in the Navy

 

[GMO_52]

I'm in the Navy.....or was in the Navy

2 years ago I started a thread complaining that every request for information or discussion about a particular question or issue was being hijacked by a couple of forum participants and inevitably turned into a "why I hate military medicine" thread. Once again, this is happening. The silly part about it is that there are more than enough of these threads to give everyone ample exposure to your views. If you're not interested in answering the OP, leave the thread alone and vent somewhere else.

 

[Galo]

Richlo25

What service are you in? or were in? what was your specialty??

Clearly you have been on this forum longer than me, and despite what is being stated clearly as fact, NOT CONTROVERSY, that military medicine is in a horrible state of being, seems to have been lost on you.

I experienced 6 years of this mess. I have talked to surgeons, and other physicians from all 3 services from various specialties, in a variety of situations, and I know this:

-the majority of physicians are extremely unhappy, surgeons can't stay competent, primary care is savagely overworked

-morale and retention is rock bottom

-the leadership is unaware, uncaring, unwilling, or unable to do anything about it

-mediocrity is the leading attribute and permeates the entire system


So unless you are in some fantasy base, in some fantasy assigment, in some fantasy service, DO NOT PREACH to me about what I know or don't know, and don't even presume that there is any controversy about what the reality of military medicine is today. Get your head out of the ground and LISTEN!!

If you are in this high state of denial, and are acutally in the service, you are a part of the problem.

Galo

 

[RichL025]

I've been in the US Army for 19 years now, and I've seen your type in the infantry and special operations (my previous 2 jobs) and also in the medical corps.

You have a good message, but you let your anger cloud your judgement and feel that your message is the MOST IMPORTANT ONE AROUND THAT MUST BE SHOUTED AT TO EVERYBODY.

Have you ever heard the term "signal to noise ratio"?

Your experiences are important, and your contributions valued here, but please stop thinking that with six years of wearing a blue suit you are an across-the-board expert on all of military medicine.

I look forward to seeing you contribute on threads where posters ask about the current state of Air Force medicine, general surgery, deployments, etc. But to jump into other threads & re-direct them with your cause is rude.

 

[militarymd]

2 years ago I started a thread complaining that every request for information or discussion about a particular question or issue was being hijacked by a couple of forum participants and inevitably turned into a "why I hate military medicine" thread. Once again, this is happening. The silly part about it is that there are more than enough of these threads to give everyone ample exposure to your views. If you're not interested in answering the OP, leave the thread alone and vent somewhere else.

It's a free country......the last that I checked where you can say just about anything anytime you want......

UNLESS......

you join the military...

 

[RichL025]

It's a free country......the last that I checked where you can say just about anything anytime you want......

"Free country" refers to laws, not decorum, and I agree with GMO_52's criticism....

UNLESS......

you join the military...

Yeah, somehow the recruiters left that part out of the pitch

 

[PharmD2MD]

GADoc,

Although I haven't practiced medicine in the Navy, I've worked side by side with many physicians while I was an active duty Navy pharmacist. I am a reservist now and I work at a big civilian hospital.

Here are a few of my observations:

1. Anesthesiologists and surgeons tend to be the most bitter about their lot in the military- they have some legitimate gripes- high potential for deployment, erosion of clinical skills when stationed in remote places, pay equity with civilian counterparts, etc.

2. Internists, FP's, ER docs, etc. seem to be happier. Some of the internal med subspecialty guys were happy with military also- ID, critical care, etc.

3. I've seen enough of civilian physicians and health systems at this point to say confidently that I believe the Navy has a decent healthcare network. It's not perfect and there are some serious issues that need to be resolved. The same statement can be made about civilian systems.

I've been accepted to USUHS for the class of 2010 and I plan on making the Navy a career. The military isn't for everyone. Neither is civilian life. I've seen more military bitterness on this website than I ever saw on active duty. Take it with a grain of salt. Good luck with the interview.

 

[Galo]

I've been in the US Army for 19 years now, and I've seen your type in the infantry and special operations (my previous 2 jobs) and also in the medical corps.

Does that mean competent officers who wanted perfection, not mediocrity. Until you have been a doctor, and now what its like to be forced to practice in a substandard system, you maintain the attitude you have now. You are likely unchangeable because of your 19 year indoctrination into the military system.

You have a good message, but you let your anger cloud your judgement and feel that your message is the MOST IMPORTANT ONE AROUND THAT MUST BE SHOUTED AT TO EVERYBODY.

Writting in capitals is for emphasis, but I can see how some see it as anger. Also I cannot dispute I am angry. I think I've made it abundantly clear why.



Your experiences are important, and your contributions valued here, but please stop thinking that with six years of wearing a blue suit you are an across-the-board expert on all of military medicine.

My experiences cleary qualify me as an expert in AF surgery and medicine because I lived them. Although I did not experience Navy or Army medicine, I did talk to many surgeons who had the same sentiments. You have yet to even serve in the capacity of a physician, so 19 yrs of Army life do not make you and expert either.

I look forward to seeing you contribute on threads where posters ask about the current state of Air Force medicine, general surgery, deployments, etc. But to jump into other threads & re-direct them with your cause is rude.

It may be rude, and I'm sure I will slow down what at some point will seem like a waste of time falling on deaf ears. I will say some good things, but right now they are so infinitisimally unimportant considering the negatives, that I just can't bring myself to do it.

I will work on my anger

WUSA WUSA

 

[Homunculus]

I look forward to seeing you contribute on threads where posters ask about the current state of Air Force medicine, general surgery, deployments, etc. But to jump into other threads & re-direct them with your cause is rude.

i agree. the OP wanted some specific questions anwered, which galo's reply didn't even partially address in his zeal. i'll take responsibility for this one, but next time similar posts will be *zapped*. there are plenty of threads to vent on, please leave the members who have specific questions alone. harrassing everyone who posts here is a sure way to create an environment where no one wants to post anything, lest it get hijacked like everything else.

-your friendly neighborhood crackin' down caveman

 

[Mirror Form]

I've been in the US Army for 19 years now, and I've seen your type in the infantry and special operations (my previous 2 jobs) and also in the medical corps.

Come on Rich, give him the whole truth. While you may have a lot of experience in the Army, you don't have any experience as a physician in the Army.

You have a good message, but you let your anger cloud your judgement and feel that your message is the MOST IMPORTANT ONE AROUND THAT MUST BE SHOUTED AT TO EVERYBODY.

Yeah, I have to agree that it was definitely a thread hi-jack.

 

[RichL025]

Come on Rich, give him the whole truth. While you may have a lot of experience in the Army, you don't have any experience as a physician in the Army.
.

Thank you for changing it from "be honest", I have never been anything but, nor have I ever claimed to have been a physician in the army.

Way before I ever went to medical school, I met docs who spanned the spectrum from completely dissatisfied to those who loved being in the military and taking care of soldiers, serving their country.

During my time in medical school, obviously meeting and talking with many, many more physicians, I have also seen the whole spectrum STILL. This includes everybody from senior staff who have been in the medical corps longer than I have been in the army, to junior people fresh out of fellowship.

I value and appreciate the "cold water" that some of the posters here throw on the overly optimistec views of military medicine that the recruiters give. By the same token, I will continue to (hopefully gently & objectively) remind posters that just because THEIR experience at Podunk AFB as a junior gastroenterologist (or whatever) sucked, they cannot extrapolate their experiences to the ENTIRE military medical establishment.... no more than I could condemn the entire infantry because my first squad leader in the 25th ID was a loser....

 

[RichL025]

Addendum:

I notice I am contributing to the thread hijacking.... let's try & keep these discussions in the appropriate threads, so the poor guy who asked for USUHS directions doesn't keep getting notification emails about completely irrelevant topics....

 

[pgg]

I will be interviewing at USUHS on Feb. 2 (that's next Thursday). I'm not at all familiar with the D.C. area. I'm flying in to Reagan because of info. I received on this site. I'm staying at the American Inn at Bethesda. We have to be at the interview kind of early. So here are a couple questions:

1. I think I can make it on the Metro to the right stop, but how should I actually proceed to the correct building on base?

Maybe too late now, but I wouldn't bother with the Metro.

Take a cab from the front door of the American Inn to the front door of USUHS. You'll walk less, you won't get lost, and you'll save about an hour.

Whether cab or walk+train+shuttle, the admin offices are straight across the courtyard in the building on the left. They'll have signs up.