Best countries to move for med school (IMG) to return to Canada (or even US)

[intheclouds]

I have been looking around the forums and been looking for a good discussion on what schools to consider outside of North America. I am tired of listening to gossip and would like a bit more concrete info on what it is really like as an IMG.

I am currently in the process of making a list of where to apply and I would like to have some international schools as my last options. I am a Canadian citizen but I have no idea where I would like to move (I'm assuming I'll end up in Canada because of family) BUT I am open to relocating if I enjoy the quality of life in this new country.

I am currently looking at schools in Australia, UK and am considering South Africa. I do not care so much as for "status" by the way (It seems to me it matters to some people). At this point, I am hoping to compete for a Family medicine or pediatrics residency (but this could all change depending on experience during med school) upon med school training and hopefully maintain ties to research. I am aiming to end up in the "clinician-scientist" realm as I do love doing research but don't want to make a full time career of it.

I wasn't sure if I posted on the right boards...some insight from those with years of experience would be greatly appreciated!

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[tiedyeddog]

If you want to go to medical school in Canada then it is best you go to undergrad in Canada. Since you are a citizen of Canada, that is your best bet. It will be extremely hard to get into a school in the U.S. without a dual citizenship.

 

[blizzah]

If you want to go to medical school in Canada then it is best you go to undergrad in Canada. Since you are a citizen of Canada, that is your best bet. It will be extremely hard to get into a school in the U.S. without a dual citizenship.

Very very untrue

That said, you have to look into how non-citizens in those countries you have listed are treated in terms of residency. You also need to decide where you want to live, others can't make that choice for you

 

[druggeek]

Very very untrue

lol this. don't private schools disregard your place of residency?

 

[tiedyeddog]

Very very untrue

That said, you have to look into how non-citizens in those countries you have listed are treated in terms of residency. You also need to decide where you want to live, others can't make that choice for you

lol this. don't private schools disregard your place of residency?

Well, sorry if I am wrong. Perhaps things are different in Canada. In the US, it is indeed very hard to get into medical school unless you're a united states citizen (OP is not). It's possible, but very hard.

Many publics schools won't even interview international students, just because they can't use federal dollars for loans. Many private schools don't "disregard" it in the USA, you still have to find a way to take out loans.....

I have no idea about Canada.

 

[druggeek]

Well, sorry if I am wrong. Perhaps things are different in Canada. In the US, it is indeed very hard to get into medical school unless you're a united states citizen (OP is not). It's possible, but very hard.

Many publics schools won't even interview international students, just because they can't use federal dollars for loans. Many private schools don't "disregard" it in the USA, you still have to find a way to take out loans.....

I have no idea about Canada.

There's about 30-35 MD schools that accept Canadians (as in with a solid chance to get in) and 6-7 DO schools.
U.S is my back up and I have no problem with the tuition cause my parents can pay for it. For those that can't, we have OSAP which will give at least 10k/year, and then there's bank loans..some money you may have/parents have, etc.

Canada's situation is pretty clear. It is much much harder to get accepted than in the US. We have tons of people with 3.9s rejected every year, just cause they lacked some tiny thing. But tuition is also like 3x cheaper lolz.

 

[intheclouds]

Thanks. My chances are pretty slim are in Canada seeing as I have subpar grades. The province I live in only has ONE medical school and all other provinces spike up their GPA's for out of province students (meaning I don't stand a chance, minimum is a 3.8 GPA typically).

US is my second option too however it's true many american schools (especially the state schools) don't consider Canadian citizens. There's no (legal) way I can obtain a dual citizenship so soon so this is why I am considering places in the UK/Australia (two countries I have considered moving to for lifestyle reasons)

I know of students who have gone to Europe to study medicine straight from highschool, I am not interested in such programs as I will be finishing my Masters soon. In Australia there are certain medical schools that will give you your 4 year MD training but not allow you to do your residency there. I am wondering if this is similar to the schools set up in the Carribean?

My friends brother/wife went to one of those schools straight from high school and seem to have tough like finding residencies in Canada. Also there is an IMG from Poland I volunteer with at the hospital who is having a horrible time with his board exams and is currently working at FedEX and tutoring 1st year med students. .I just don't EVER want to get stuck in that boat and am researching all my options thoroughly. Although they never did undergrad and did these 6 year MD programs so that might has something to do with it?

Thanks for your input everyone.

 

[candav]

Well, sorry if I am wrong. Perhaps things are different in Canada. In the US, it is indeed very hard to get into medical school unless you're a united states citizen (OP is not). It's possible, but very hard.

At most private schools in the US, international applicants experience little to no disadvantage in admissions compared to US citizens/permanent residents. (This coming from a Canadian who applied to American MD schools this cycle.) I'd say Canadian applicants who are competitive for admission to Canadian schools are just as competitive in the US.

American schools are also more forgiving of lower GPAs, if that is an issue.

OP, if you're interested in practicing in Canada, you should aim to attend a Canadian or American medical school. For schools outside North America, the International forum on SDN might be more helpful.

 

[intheclouds]

There's about 30-35 MD schools that accept Canadians (as in with a solid chance to get in) and 6-7 DO schools.
U.S is my back up and I have no problem with the tuition cause my parents can pay for it. For those that can't, we have OSAP which will give at least 10k/year, and then there's bank loans..some money you may have/parents have, etc.

Canada's situation is pretty clear. It is much much harder to get accepted than in the US. We have tons of people with 3.9s rejected every year, just cause they lacked some tiny thing. But tuition is also like 3x cheaper lolz.

You are very lucky. I am just hoping my parents are willing to co-sign my loan...

 

[intheclouds]

At most private schools in the US, international applicants experience little to no disadvantage in admissions compared to US citizens/permanent residents. (This coming from a Canadian who applied to American MD schools this cycle.) I'd say Canadian applicants who are competitive for admission to Canadian schools are just as competitive in the US.

American schools are also more forgiving of lower GPAs, if that is an issue.

OP, if you're interested in practicing in Canada, you should aim to attend a Canadian or American medical school. For schools outside North America, the International forum on SDN might be more helpful.

Yes, I am hoping if I beef up my EC's this year with some publications and get some killer LOR's from some Dr's I have been working with that could potentially make up from my crap GPA. Also I need to start working on achieving a killer MCAT score.

I will check out the international forum...didn't know there was one! Those private US schools are so expensive! My friend is attending a dental school in Detroit atm and the cost is just insane...luckily she scored an entrance scholarship that will cover 50% of her fees...

Good luck this cycle candav Is there a list on the forums somewhere of what US schools accept Canadians? That would save me tons of time in my research.

 

[candav]

Yes, I am hoping if I beef up my EC's this year with some publications and get some killer LOR's from some Dr's I have been working with that could potentially make up from my crap GPA. Also I need to start working on achieving a killer MCAT score.

I will check out the international forum...didn't know there was one! Those private US schools are so expensive! My friend is attending a dental school in Detroit atm and the cost is just insane...luckily she scored an entrance scholarship that will cover 50% of her fees...

Good luck this cycle candav Is there a list on the forums somewhere of what US schools accept Canadians? That would save me tons of time in my research.

Here is one resource: http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19065
A more up-to-date and official reference is the MSAR: https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/requirements/msar/

Good luck!

 

[intheclouds]

Candav, would you recommend buying that MSAR guide? I mean it would be useful to have stats but I have a tendency to get a bit OCD about stats...

 

[druggeek]

Yes, I am hoping if I beef up my EC's this year with some publications and get some killer LOR's from some Dr's I have been working with that could potentially make up from my crap GPA. Also I need to start working on achieving a killer MCAT score.

I will check out the international forum...didn't know there was one! Those private US schools are so expensive! My friend is attending a dental school in Detroit atm and the cost is just insane...luckily she scored an entrance scholarship that will cover 50% of her fees...

Good luck this cycle candav Is there a list on the forums somewhere of what US schools accept Canadians? That would save me tons of time in my research.

How bad exactly is your GPA?
And stay away from international schools (outside of canada/usa).

 

[robertch8]

I would make sure to go through both US MD and US DO before even considering going abroad. I know a few Canadian pre-meds who went DO with mediocre stats even by US standards, but you go DO you're very likely going to get a US residency and you can probably return to Canada to practice sometime down the road; it looks way better than the huge uphill battle you're going to face going abroad.

 

[intheclouds]

I had a high B+ GPA. Not ideal but I'm hoping that I can still make it with a really good MCAT score.

Interesting idea about the DO schools...I will consider this. I am going to consult with my boyfriend's uncle who went to a school in Boston and is now a specialized oral surgeon in Canada. He is very success financially (depends on your definition of success) and could probably provide some insight.

Is being an IMG really that bad though? I know a ton of people that went down that road...I just don't understand why people would do it if it's going to take so long to jump through hoops later down the road. Sounds like setting yourself up for some major midlife crisis...

 

[robertch8]

Well, if you're out of options in Canada and the US, where else will you end up? Personally, I think that Israel probably would be the best option for IMG schools; Sackler has a very strong program and BGU MSIH has an affiliation with Columbia. But I'd save those as last options. I don't know about Canada but in the US there is going to be a crunch for residency spots in the future because there has been an increase in new medical schools for both MD and DO but there will not be any more residency spots. In addition, residency programs because they use US government money to help fund their programs will be under pressure to take US educated students.

But if you're thinking DO you should take a look at this forum (it's a whole thread about DO for Canadians)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=821151

 

[druggeek]

I had a high B+ GPA. Not ideal but I'm hoping that I can still make it with a really good MCAT score.

Interesting idea about the DO schools...I will consider this. I am going to consult with my boyfriend's uncle who went to a school in Boston and is now a specialized oral surgeon in Canada. He is very success financially (depends on your definition of success) and could probably provide some insight.

Is being an IMG really that bad though? I know a ton of people that went down that road...I just don't understand why people would do it if it's going to take so long to jump through hoops later down the road. Sounds like setting yourself up for some major midlife crisis...

It is extremely important to not use people's PAST experiences for your FUTURE decisions when it comes to medicine. Things change big time, and IMGs who graduated a couple years ago were in MUCH better shape than those graduating in a couple years and in even better shape than those graduating 4-5 years from now. Every year it gets harder for IMGs as the number of IMGs go up while the spots stagnate... and number of american grads go up.
Lets not forget more american grads = even less liking for IMGs.

Apply to every DO school and MD school you can, if you're rejected to every single one and fix your problems and are rejected again... then maybe you're just not cut out for medicine. Do not consider going IMG.

 

[intheclouds]

Thank you for your suggestions. I am currently trying to figure out what my long term goals are if I can't get into schools in North America. I keep asking myself how far I am willing to go to make this dream come true.

After seeing some other IMG's go through hell I feel like saying I would just consider an alternate career (which really isn't the end of the world). But I just can't imagine the feeling of "giving up" after putting in so much effort of trying to get in...