Best Breast Imaging Fellowships

[radiologyftw23]

There are a lot of posts out there about the best residencies in radiology but what not any recent ones on best breast fellowships.

In no particular order the first schools that come to mind are MGH, Duke, UCSF, NYU, UVA, UW, Emory, Penn, BWH, Stanford, Northwestern, UCLA, Cornell, Memorial Sloan Kettering, M.D. Anderson, Vanderbilt.

Others? How would you rank these programs? Go!

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[vm26]

There are a lot of posts out there about the best residencies in radiology but what not any recent ones on best breast fellowships.

In no particular order the first schools that come to mind are MGH, Duke, UCSF, NYU, UVA, UW, Emory, Penn, BWH, Stanford, Northwestern, UCLA, Cornell, Memorial Sloan Kettering, M.D. Anderson, Vanderbilt.

Others? How would you rank these programs? Go!

Any will do. As long as you get to perform a bunch of bx's/locs etc, it's pretty much the same stuff. A large chunk of PP rads perform breast imaging/bx's without any fellowship training. While breast cancer screening, cancer subtypes, and treatment are somewhat complex issues, the actual day to day functioning of a breast imager is not, in part due to the fact that we have BI-rads. Honestly a year long fellowship in breast imaging is probably too long and mundane. One of our best breast imagers and head of breast imaging did a 6 month fellowship.

 

[IRattending2021]

Any will do. As long as you get to perform a bunch of bx's/locs etc, it's pretty much the same stuff. A large chunk of PP rads perform breast imaging/bx's without any fellowship training. While breast cancer screening, cancer subtypes, and treatment are somewhat complex issues, the actual day to day functioning of a breast imager is not, in part due to the fact that we have BI-rads. Honestly a year long fellowship in breast imaging is probably too long and mundane. One of our best breast imagers and head of breast imaging did a 6 month fellowship.

no one particularly cares except super name brand places like Harvard/Yale/Columbia/Cornell for lay people recognition. Some of those above maybe more reputable than others.

But seriously I think many places do care about famous places. They love to advertise harvard trained mammographer.

 

[guytakingboards]

There are a lot of posts out there about the best residencies in radiology but what not any recent ones on best breast fellowships.

In no particular order the first schools that come to mind are MGH, Duke, UCSF, NYU, UVA, UW, Emory, Penn, BWH, Stanford, Northwestern, UCLA, Cornell, Memorial Sloan Kettering, M.D. Anderson, Vanderbilt.

Others? How would you rank these programs? Go!

Residencies are inherently easier to compare. They're 4x longer and train way more people per year.

Those places you listed are all good names and likely top notch programs that get plenty of the leading edge stuff like breast MRI and MR-biopsies. They probably all have plenty of volume of mamm's and biopsies.

Anecdotally I've heard from friends who did breast fellowships and interviewed at many of those places that MSKCC and MD Anderson tend to leading edge on research/clinical protocols. Not surprising. MGH tends to be leading edge on new technology/devices being field-tested. Heard Stanford can be malignant. Never heard any negative things from friends who trained at Duke and UCLA.

Breast fellowships aren't going to vary on pathology, so as long as you get volume you're gonna be as well-trained as anyone from a similar tier program. I'd focus more on non-clinical stuff like location, moonlighting, and area of the country.

 

[RadX]

I am a foreign trained currently doing a US fellowship and used to think alot about ranking/big names. Now as I am here, I understand that for clinical experience, it is volume that matters.

Big name is useful in branding and can help getting you a job. Also big centers will have more research opportunities. Disadvantages of big centers: more fellows -> less cases/fellow, more specialized divisions/ complex cases (shouldn’t be a problem in breast but there is MRI only abdominal imaging fellowships which can be limiting).

Choose a fellowship that fits your needs: clinical, research, location, ...

 

[Bobcat18]

Bump

 

[Tiger100]

Some of the best names: BWH, UCSF, MGH, Stanford, UCLA, MSKCC, UVA

Places that surprisingly are not as good as you may think: Hopkins, Yale, Duke


Most fellowships (breast, Neuro, MSK, Body, etc) will prepare you for private practice. And you need to work 2-3 years post-training to become very good at what you do.
For academics, name matters. If you want to stay in academics, you'd better go to a brand name program for both residency and fellowship.

 

[Tiger100]

Any will do. As long as you get to perform a bunch of bx's/locs etc, it's pretty much the same stuff. A large chunk of PP rads perform breast imaging/bx's without any fellowship training. While breast cancer screening, cancer subtypes, and treatment are somewhat complex issues, the actual day to day functioning of a breast imager is not, in part due to the fact that we have BI-rads. Honestly a year long fellowship in breast imaging is probably too long and mundane. One of our best breast imagers and head of breast imaging did a 6 month fellowship.

To be honest, except for IR you can say the same for most subspecialties in DR.

Doing a 6 month fellowship in Neuro, MSK, Body, Chest, Nucs and etc is more than enough to prepare someone for private practice.

5-10 years down the road, a 6 months neuro fellowship versus a 2-year neuro fellowship at UCSF won't matter esp for private practice. A lot of high end imaging that they do at UCSF does not exist in private practice.


If someone can do a hybrid fellowship, that's the best. Something like 6 months of body MRI and 6 months of MSK. Or 6 months of Breast and 6 months of MSK. Unfortunately, this opportunity doesn't exist.

 

[GadRads]

Some of the best names: BWH, UCSF, MGH, Stanford, UCLA, MSKCC, UVA

Places that surprisingly are not as good as you may think: Hopkins, Yale, Duke


Most fellowships (breast, Neuro, MSK, Body, etc) will prepare you for private practice. And you need to work 2-3 years post-training to become very good at what you do.
For academics, name matters. If you want to stay in academics, you'd better go to a brand name program for both residency and fellowship.

I agree that Hopkins isn't as good as the branding suggests. They also apparently force mammo fellows to cover plain film call without additional pay.

I am also not even sure name matters as much for academics. Academics pay isn't as good, and while the older folks (50-60+) place a lot of value on prestige, the younger folks have other priorities (better lifestyle, more compensation, work place culture, etc.), and do not tolerate academic exploitation as much in the name of prestige. I know some top academic rads departments struggling to fill their sections. Usually the turnover is among younger faculty.

 

[Tiger100]

I agree that Hopkins isn't as good as the branding suggests. They also apparently force mammo fellows to cover plain film call without additional pay.

I am also not even sure name matters as much for academics. Academics pay isn't as good, and while the older folks (50-60+) place a lot of value on prestige, the younger folks have other priorities (better lifestyle, more compensation, work place culture, etc.), and do not tolerate academic exploitation as much in the name of prestige. I know some top academic rads departments struggling to fill their sections. Usually the turnover is among younger faculty.

I don't agree with your second paragraph.

Academic jobs have become relatively lucrative esp in the coastal cities that the opportunities are less.

Anyway if you want to become the head of department at UCLA or the section chief of breast at MSKCC, you need to be trained at dinner prestigious peogram. Period.

Name matters even for some high end private practice jobs. When the job market is good (like these days) , name doesn't matter as much. But when the market is tight, definitely name matters.

 

[vm26]

To be honest, except for IR you can say the same for most subspecialties in DR.

Doing a 6 month fellowship in Neuro, MSK, Body, Chest, Nucs and etc is more than enough to prepare someone for private practice.

5-10 years down the road, a 6 months neuro fellowship versus a 2-year neuro fellowship at UCSF won't matter esp for private practice. A lot of high end imaging that they do at UCSF does not exist in private practice.


If someone can do a hybrid fellowship, that's the best. Something like 6 months of body MRI and 6 months of MSK. Or 6 months of Breast and 6 months of MSK. Unfortunately, this opportunity doesn't exist.

Great point, given the reality that most PP rads act as generalists to a large extent (particularly during call shifts). Current PP group I'm in (about 30 rads) covers stroke center with CT perfusion yet we have zero CAQ neuro-rads as of now. Also have a handful of non-fellowship trained rads consistently performing most facets of breast imaging. All about supply and demand.

 

[LadyRads]

Some of the best names: BWH, UCSF, MGH, Stanford, UCLA, MSKCC, UVA

Places that surprisingly are not as good as you may think: Hopkins, Yale, Duke


Most fellowships (breast, Neuro, MSK, Body, etc) will prepare you for private practice. And you need to work 2-3 years post-training to become very good at what you do.
For academics, name matters. If you want to stay in academics, you'd better go to a brand name program for both residency and fellowship.

Duke and Yale are very strong in breast imaging. I interviewed for my fellowship and/or job at most of the programs you mentioned. I would put UCLA, Hopkins, and Stanford in Tier 2. Don't know much about UVA.

 

[IRattending2021]

Duke and Yale are very strong in breast imaging. I interviewed for my fellowship and/or job at most of the programs you mentioned. I would put UCLA, Hopkins, and Stanford in Tier 2. Don't know much about UVA.

stanford and UCLA are definitely tier one. West coast are more competitive than east coast in general.

 

[Tiger100]

Duke and Yale are very strong in breast imaging. I interviewed for my fellowship and/or job at most of the programs you mentioned. I would put UCLA, Hopkins, and Stanford in Tier 2. Don't know much about UVA.

Respectfully disagree. Yale and Duke are tier 2.

Lawrence Bassett a UCLA is one of the big names in the field of breast imaging.

Generally speaking, Yale radiology is not on par with its law school. Generally speaking, getting a fellowship or job at Yale and Duke are much easier mostly due to their location.

Anyway, most breast fellowship will prepare you well for private practice.


Disclaimer: I was not trained at UCLA

 

[LadyRads]

Respectfully disagree. Yale and Duke are tier 2.

Lawrence Bassett a UCLA is one of the big names in the field of breast imaging.

Generally speaking, Yale radiology is not on par with its law school. Generally speaking, getting a fellowship or job at Yale and Duke are much easier mostly due to their location.

Anyway, most breast fellowship will prepare you well for private practice.


Disclaimer: I was not trained at UCLA

The strength of a breast imaging program comes from the volume and variety of the cases they see every day and their adoption of newer technology. To my surprise, UCLA, Stanford, and Hopkins were very underwhelming compared to the other ones. I am not talking about the quality of residency training, research infrastructure, or anything else. I am talking about how well their breast imaging section is managed and the quality of training. I trust my impression of those programs over subjective impressions you may have based on brand reputation. I hope your assessment comes from some sort of first-hand breast imaging-specific experience.

The University of Washington, Northwestern, NYU, and Cincinnati are also great breast imaging programs for those interested.

Unfortunately, Dr. Bassett passed away in 2020. He was a great mentor.

 

[Tiger100]

The strength of a breast imaging program comes from the volume and variety of the cases they see every day and their adoption of newer technology. To my surprise, UCLA, Stanford, and Hopkins were very underwhelming compared to the other ones. I am not talking about the quality of residency training, research infrastructure, or anything else. I am talking about how well their breast imaging section is managed and the quality of training. I trust my impression of those programs over subjective impressions you may have based on brand reputation. I hope your assessment comes from some sort of first-hand breast imaging-specific experience.

The University of Washington, Northwestern, NYU, and Cincinnati are also great breast imaging programs for those interested.

Unfortunately, Dr. Bassett passed away in 2020. He was a great mentor.

You are arguing over something that is useless to argue about.

There is not that much variety in the world of breast imaging except for MRI volume and MR guided biopsies. UCLA and Stanford has high volume of MRI.

 

[Cognovi]

I feel like the technology curve is not limited to MRI.

My impression was there are big name programs where some of the mammos are 2D only (haven't upgraded all units to tomo), some of the mammo biopsies are still stereo pairs (haven't upgraded the mammo biopsy units to tomo). True or no?

I recall having to study for the Core about stereo pair troubleshooting without ever having seen one in real life since all our biopsy units are tomo guided and you just dial in the coordinates.

Also, how about whole breast ultrasound? That's definitely not universal. How about wire loc vs magseed?

Maybe I'm ignorant about breast programs but what about things like, whether the fellow presents at the tumor conferences, whether the attendings' recall rates are high or low, how regularly rad-path correlation is reviewed. Seems to me that all these would be more variable than the case mix.

 

[Radgy]

Although not necessarily required for private practice, if you’re even remotely interested in academic medicine I would absolutely recommend attending one of the bigger named breast programs as the research available at these institutions and their reputations will put you in a great position when searching for jobs.

Short list of top tier breast programs: Duke, MGH, MSK, UCSF, NW, UW, and UCLA.