Bernie Sanders says he will cancel all student loan debt if he’s president, can he do it?

[PharFromNormal]

When government got more involved in healthcare and college loans, the costs soared

When the government gets involved to make it easier to finance xyz (whether it be health services, education, etc.)... I’m always so puzzled when people don’t understand that there will be people on the other side taking advantage of the fact that they know there is more lenient/abundant pockets available and they can go for a bigger slice of pie.

I do think there are certainly times where aide is warranted but thinking the solution to high costs is just getting an entity (in this case govt) with unlimited depth in pockets to foot the bills is bananaland.

I’m very interested to see what happens in the fall if some campuses remain shut or extremely limited. Are new freshman going to shell out 40k a year (Or take loans equating to such) to sit in their parents basement on zoom? That would seem to me the biggest racket going!

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[wagrxm2000]

When the government gets involved to make it easier to finance xyz (whether it be health services, education, etc.)... I’m always so puzzled when people don’t understand that there will be people on the other side taking advantage of the fact that they know there is more lenient/abundant pockets available and they can go for a bigger slice of pie.

So you are agreeing? The government did make things worse

Remember before the government got involved, you could send your child to school for 2 months salary.

 

[PharFromNormal]

So you are agreeing? The government did make things worse

Remember before the government got involved, you could send your child to school for 2 months salary.

What am I agreeing to? Do I think there was an overextension of some probably well intended government programs because reality is never ideology. Sure.

Do I think there should be absolutely zero welfare/government assistance programs? No.

There are certainly people that could not send their child to school for 2 months salary. In addition there are children that don’t have a stable parental salary to draw from for a wide variety of reasons that I do not believe are always the fault of the child.

I also believe that people/institutions left to their own devices will generally act with selfish motivations. Meaning there may be a handful that provided goodwill in helping deserving children that couldn’t afford it, but many that saw no economic upside in seeking it out and doing it more. If the goal of society was elevate the education of the masses, there would need to be some type of way to educate those that otherwise couldn’t afford it.

 

[wagrxm2000]

There are certainly people that could not send their child to school for 2 months salary. In addition there are children that don’t have a stable parental salary to draw from for a wide variety of reasons that I do not believe are always the fault of the child.

The tuition cost to go to Harvard in 1930 was $400. In 1958 it was $800.

That's $6 to $7.7k in today's dollars so yes it's a couple months the median income of $30k or household income of $50 to $60k

By 1975 it already rose to $25k in today's dollars.

What happened during that time? Well I think you know

While there are many reasons you can say it went up including demand, a lack of state funding, etc.The simple fact is by having the government make it so easy to go to college, it not only jacked up the price but it also made the degree itself worth less.

 

[PharFromNormal]

The tuition cost to go to Harvard in 1930 was $400. In 1958 it was $800.

That's $6 to $7.7k in today's dollars.

By 1975 it already rose to $25k in today's dollars.

What happened during that time? Well I think you know

While there are many reasons you can say it went up including demand, a lack of state funding, etc.The simple fact is by having the government make it so easy to go to college, it not only jacked up the price but it also made the degree itself worth less.

Multiple things can be true. Again I do not think providing a vehicle for someone to obtain education or information that they cannot receive because they were born into conditions they may not be able to control is a bad thing. I also accept its extremely hard to create said vehicle without introducing abuse and other undesired consequences. There is no perfect solution. Just as I reject the ideology that government programs are perfect I also reject that they are entirely bad.

Additionally on your point regarding making a degree worthless. I’m entirely ok with this. A degree on its own in my eyes is fine being worthless or maybe said another way invaluable.

What does a degree represent to you? That you have demonstrated some understanding of information? You’ve sat through classes and passed tests indicating that you are now in possession of information? A degree is a thing to allegedly prove you know something within a given field?

if I’m hiring someone, their degree and institution means very little to me. gauge their competency on the topics I’m interested and if they can apply whatever knowledge they have that they may have learned however.

I don’t think people should go to college to get a degree because they believe it carries some sort of value on its own. That’s hogwash. The skills and information learned via the process of obtaining the degree are the things I value. Getting a formalized degree isn’t the only way to obtain those things and it never was the only way.

 

[wagrxm2000]

.

I don’t think people should go to college to get a degree because they believe it carries some sort of value on its own. That’s hogwash. The skills and information learned via the process of obtaining the degree are the things I value. Getting a formalized degree isn’t the only way to obtain those things and it never was the only way.

I agree 100% that most jobs do not need a degree and should be on the job training only.

However just because you don't want to place value on a degree doesn't make it not have any. If your job needs a degree in order to be hired, that degree clearly has value. Now with everyone having one, its value has gone way down.

 

[PharFromNormal]

I agree 100% that most jobs do not need a degree and should be on the job training only.

However just because you don't want to place value on a degree doesn't make it not have any. If your job needs a degree in order to be hired, that degree clearly has value. Now with everyone having one, its value has gone way down.

I don’t think necessarily on the job training only. I think many jobs can still require some baseline knowledge of something. Value is in the eye of the beholder. While many jobs list degrees as “requirements” there are often exceptions to the rules. Either way, my position remains that I think a degree itself is worthless. So if your perception of the value is decreasing to 0 it looks like you will soon be in my camp too. Cheers.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I don’t think necessarily on the job training only. I think many jobs can still require some baseline knowledge of something. Value is in the eye of the beholder. While many jobs list degrees as “requirements” there are often exceptions to the rules. Either way, my position remains that I think a degree itself is worthless. So if your perception of the value is decreasing to 0 it looks like you will soon be in my camp too. Cheers.

We'll just have to agree to disagree and on what the term "value" means.

 

[PharFromNormal]

We'll just have to agree to disagree and on what the term "value" means.

Certainly! As I said value is in the eye of the beholder!

 

[sakigt]

The portion of revenue shifted to students, as it should

that is different than the availability of loans inflating costs

States do not benefit from having a well educated hireable population?

 

[deleted480308]

States do not benefit from having a well educated hireable population?

Not their role to fund that. If the individual wants to be more “educated and hireable”, that should be on them to arrange. They have to pick the risk/reward ratio and they have to put in the effort

 

[sakigt]

Not their role to fund that. If the individual wants to be more “educated and hireable”, that should be on them to arrange. They have to pick the risk/reward ratio and they have to put in the effort

You dont believe in state sponsored incentives?

 

[deleted480308]

You dont believe in state sponsored incentives?

No

 

[owlegrad]

You dont believe in state sponsored incentives?

Clearly you don’t know who you are asking! LMAO

 

[sakigt]

Clearly you don’t know who you are asking! LMAO

Well, most of America doesnt feel the same. Id personally reserve the vast majority of my disdain for the incentives system for, say, amazon/boeing and not so much to 18 year olds trying to make more than minimum wage. A lot more utilitarian as the amazon exec is less likely to shoot up a Walmart if theyre feeling financially cornered. Unless you dont think social unrest is a current issue, then carry on.

And no, I dont spend enough time on here to remember everyones political leanings

 

[BC_89]

No

Any time I glance at one of your comments, I read it as if it was Ron Swanson himself speaking (true story).

Don't ever change your avatar.

 

[deleted480308]

Well, most of America doesnt feel the same. Id personally reserve the vast majority of my disdain for the incentives system for, say, amazon/boeing and not so much to 18 year olds trying to make more than minimum wage. A lot more utilitarian as the amazon exec is less likely to shoot up a Walmart if theyre feeling financially cornered. Unless you dont think social unrest is a current issue, then carry on.

And no, I dont spend enough time on here to remember everyones political leanings

I don’t want the companies to get money either

 

[owlegrad]

I don’t want the companies to get money either

He doesn’t know who he is talking to!