D
deleted480308
I wonder what the keynote speaker fee happens to be, you know, out of curiosity
ASTRO has gone full woke
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I wonder what the keynote speaker fee happens to be, you know, out of curiosity
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Since you called me out...
There is lots of evidence to support the notion that race relations worsened under Obama. I, like many others, had high hopes for Obama to continue to improve race relations and be a unifying figure. Unfortunately he interjected devisively. The fact that Trump was elected at all is a good start. What's sad is the espoused belief that race relations couldn't possibly have worsened simply because he was black. We are so myopically focused on skin color. Now we have a group using the deaths of a handful of African Americans and a nearly universally agreed-upon phrase "black lives matter" to bully ctizens, politicans, and corporations into accepting marxist and anti-american propaganda under the threat of being cancelled. This group did not start under Trump.
I'm not going to get into this further, but some light non-partisan reading for you if you wish to explore this topic further:
How America Changed During Barack Obama’s Presidency
Pew Research Center President Michael Dimock examines the changes – some profound, some subtle – that the U.S. experienced during Barack Obama’s presidency.
www.pewresearch.org
" But by 2016, following a spate of high-profile deaths of black Americans during encounters with police and protests by the Black Lives Matter movement and other groups, many Americans – especially blacks – described race relations as generally bad. "
Killing of Michael Brown - Wikipedia
Still waiting to hear if our two vocal SJW colleagues are willing to give up their 700k+ unobtainable non-rural PP jobs to new minority grads, send their kids to public schools, and relocating lower income families into their gated communities via housing subsidies, among other antiracist federal government mandates proposed by Kendi and the like.
Back to the topic (well, since the topic is ASTRO going woke, I really think all of the above is fair game)...
Can anyone find out if ASTRO is paying Kendi and how much they are paying him? This should be available knowledge for members, correct? This should be known.
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I presume he won’t be asked about this?
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There are too many instance of "not" and "anti" and double negatives in that tweet. I can't make out the point.
To add insult to injury, ASTRO now asks pt advocates to pay $200 for a VIRTUAL meeting.
It cannot get any lower than this!
During normal time, pt advocates should be PAID to go to meeting to support our causes.
During pandemic time, pt advocates should be granted access for FREE.
In fact, we/ASTRO should pay them a bit of money to pay for their time away from their families.
Once the words get out (actually the horses already left the barn), too late to fix.
People already talked about this.
Wonder why this field went to hell? Just look at this...bunch of the so-called "dear leaders" with no grand vision.
It cannot get any lower than this!
During normal time, pt advocates should be PAID to go to meeting to support our causes.
During pandemic time, pt advocates should be granted access for FREE.
In fact, we/ASTRO should pay them a bit of money to pay for their time away from their families.
Once the words get out (actually the horses already left the barn), too late to fix.
People already talked about this.
Wonder why this field went to hell? Just look at this...bunch of the so-called "dear leaders" with no grand vision.
D
deleted480308
I google their name and speaking fee, found a post by a college saying they couldn’t afford him for an event
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I am not a lawyer but with ASTRO's non-profit status shouldn't this information be publicly available at some point.
The incoming president is currently secretary/treasurer.
www.astro.org
Based on her public statement after her election it would not be surprising that she advocated for Dr Kendi.
Anyone know here well enough to ask?
The incoming president is currently secretary/treasurer.
Board of Directors - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO) - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO)
Geraldine Jacobson, MD, MBA, MPH, FASTRO, ASTRO Chair
Based on her public statement after her election it would not be surprising that she advocated for Dr Kendi.
Anyone know here well enough to ask?
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Does she SOAP into her garbage residency?I am not a lawyer but with ASTRO's non-profit status shouldn't this information be publicly available at some point.
The incoming president is currently secretary/treasurer.
Board of Directors - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO) - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO)
Geraldine Jacobson, MD, MBA, MPH, FASTRO, ASTRO Chair
Based on her public statement after her election it would not be surprising that she advocated for Dr Kendi.
Anyone know here well enough to ask?
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yes yearly ever since inception of the program, has never filled. On the market for warm bodies yearly, folks!
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With that sweet, sweet funding to go along with it
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This is such a funny, sad, example of the putrid swamp state of the field. The “leaders” thought it was a great idea during this time to make someone who started a residency program nobody wanted or needed, the position of being in charge of our specialty’s professional organization. I sort of think this must be some sort of joke on all of our collective intelligence and our “leaders” have excellent humour, but the reality of all sinks in towards a monotone of suckiness. I mean these same people continue to think PW is “one of the best people”. You cannot make this up. We have a corrupt unscrupulous woman hater anti breast milk guy in charge of our boards. How can you be so anti breasts and survive in this field?
it makes me sort of miss low energy Harari up there showing pictures of his family gaslighting everyone. Man i hear the guy used up all his Energy for months in matching his own son this year. Guy was spent, totally exhausted, famished afterwards! Hope some good recharging in the works. Everyone stay woke, please!
it makes me sort of miss low energy Harari up there showing pictures of his family gaslighting everyone. Man i hear the guy used up all his Energy for months in matching his own son this year. Guy was spent, totally exhausted, famished afterwards! Hope some good recharging in the works. Everyone stay woke, please!
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I couldn't either.
But I did find where Robin DiAngelo charged UK $12,000 for a 2 hour speech not including expenses. Yes, $6,000/hour. That's not bad profit for an anti-capitalist.
$12K a Day: How White Liberals Profit From Pushing ‘White Privilege’
Left-wing academic Robin DiAngelo, who is white, charged the University of Kentucky $12,000 for a two-hour “Racial Justice Keynote and breakout session.”
Ibram Kendi is just as well known, if not more so. The number I keep hearing thrown around is $20k for a speaking engagement. I wouldn't be surprised if he is getting more from ASTRO. We should find this out, and heads should roll if they are paying such a controversial and polarizing figure without at least also paying somebody from the other side to engage in honest debate.
Kendi, DiAngelo, et al are grifters. It's a racket. They are peddling a solution (diversity seminars, books, and speaking engagements) to a problem they essentially made up (e.g., systemic racism in rad onc not accepting black applicants as the reason why the numbers of black rad oncs are proportionally lower than the population). Are they are making a KILLING! while worsening race relations and inciting violence. And if you don't pay up for their product, then you could be labelled a racist organization because after all, not supporting/buying their antiracist teachings means that you must be a racist. There is no other options. Pay up or your a racist. Pay us to protect you or we'll break your legs. DiAngelo is particularly nasty being a white woman who is profitting of off her own apparent helplessly inherent racism.
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Since you called me out...
There is lots of evidence to support the notion that race relations worsened under Obama. I, like many others, had high hopes for Obama to continue to improve race relations and be a unifying figure. Unfortunately he interjected devisively. The fact that Trump was elected at all is a good start. What's sad is the espoused belief that race relations couldn't possibly have worsened simply because he was black. We are so myopically focused on skin color. Now we have a group using the deaths of a handful of African Americans and a nearly universally agreed-upon phrase "black lives matter" to bully ctizens, politicans, and corporations into accepting marxist and anti-american propaganda under the threat of being cancelled. This group did not start under Trump.
I'm not going to get into this further, but some light non-partisan reading for you if you wish to explore this topic further:
How America Changed During Barack Obama’s Presidency
Pew Research Center President Michael Dimock examines the changes – some profound, some subtle – that the U.S. experienced during Barack Obama’s presidency.
" But by 2016, following a spate of high-profile deaths of black Americans during encounters with police and protests by the Black Lives Matter movement and other groups, many Americans – especially blacks – described race relations as generally bad. "
Killing of Michael Brown - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Still waiting to hear if our two vocal SJW colleagues are willing to give up their 700k+ unobtainable non-rural PP jobs to new minority grads, send their kids to public schools, and relocating lower income families into their gated communities via housing subsidies, among other antiracist federal government mandates proposed by Kendi and the like.
Back to the topic (well, since the topic is ASTRO going woke, I really think all of the above is fair game)...
Can anyone find out if ASTRO is paying Kendi and how much they are paying him? This should be available knowledge for members, correct? This should be known.
Never trust a Baizuo unless they are willing to send their children to inner city schools.
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Leading by example i guess
There are so many things to unpack in these posts but I will make only 2 comments.
Kendi’s wife is an emergency medicine doctor- so at least he has SOME understanding of racism issues in medicine- which are very real even if you specifically have not noticed them or perhaps you recognize it but there is nothing to be done so don’t even try really. (This is not a neat game with a perfect solution that satisfies everyone. It’s a social process that will take decades if not centuries to solve meaning we will go through many iterations of problem solving- just because there isn’t an immediate solution doesn’t mean you don’t try and yes some people will not like the solution - it may not seem fair to everyone and it make some things harder for others but as scales are vastly tipped now it means you go through the discomfort of problem solving).
Second thing: can someone please explain to me why the vice chair of UW-Madison’s cute human oncology department is a white man who graduated residency in 2016? Am I missing something here? Did he win the noble prize? I just need an explanation- there might be a real explanation that’s not blatant sexism and favoritism and someone looking at this person and thinking to themselves “gosh darn it this man reminds me of me when I was young. I will make him vice chair even though he is definitely not at that point in his career. He will hold the spot until my son graduates residency. He will be temporary son until then.” Blatant sexism. By the way the above attitude of “he reminds me of me” is exactly a prime example of how insidious bigotry, racism and sexism starts. Harari will not look at a young black man or a woman or an Asian man 4 years out of residency and give THAT person vice chair. So yes if I’m not mistaken (and I can totally be mistaken) Harari and UW-Madison are playing a fine example of white male privilege. But don’t worry Harari, this is also widely present in private practice like the dumb chairman who protects his incompetent best friend from having to work at all, paying him excessively (on the labor of people who don’t look like the two of them), and then saying dumb **** like “I look out for people. I help them.” No you look out for people who are exactly like you on a superficial basis (same gender, same race, same religion). It doesn’t make you a kind person. It makes a you bigoted, sexist, racist.
but again I could be reading the UW website incorrectly. Please someone tell me I’m absolutely wrong about who the vice chair is for UW.
Kendi’s wife is an emergency medicine doctor- so at least he has SOME understanding of racism issues in medicine- which are very real even if you specifically have not noticed them or perhaps you recognize it but there is nothing to be done so don’t even try really. (This is not a neat game with a perfect solution that satisfies everyone. It’s a social process that will take decades if not centuries to solve meaning we will go through many iterations of problem solving- just because there isn’t an immediate solution doesn’t mean you don’t try and yes some people will not like the solution - it may not seem fair to everyone and it make some things harder for others but as scales are vastly tipped now it means you go through the discomfort of problem solving).
Second thing: can someone please explain to me why the vice chair of UW-Madison’s cute human oncology department is a white man who graduated residency in 2016? Am I missing something here? Did he win the noble prize? I just need an explanation- there might be a real explanation that’s not blatant sexism and favoritism and someone looking at this person and thinking to themselves “gosh darn it this man reminds me of me when I was young. I will make him vice chair even though he is definitely not at that point in his career. He will hold the spot until my son graduates residency. He will be temporary son until then.” Blatant sexism. By the way the above attitude of “he reminds me of me” is exactly a prime example of how insidious bigotry, racism and sexism starts. Harari will not look at a young black man or a woman or an Asian man 4 years out of residency and give THAT person vice chair. So yes if I’m not mistaken (and I can totally be mistaken) Harari and UW-Madison are playing a fine example of white male privilege. But don’t worry Harari, this is also widely present in private practice like the dumb chairman who protects his incompetent best friend from having to work at all, paying him excessively (on the labor of people who don’t look like the two of them), and then saying dumb **** like “I look out for people. I help them.” No you look out for people who are exactly like you on a superficial basis (same gender, same race, same religion). It doesn’t make you a kind person. It makes a you bigoted, sexist, racist.
but again I could be reading the UW website incorrectly. Please someone tell me I’m absolutely wrong about who the vice chair is for UW.
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EDIT: Just to be clear, the guy looks incredibly accomplished on paper with the Oxford, Harvard Med, sought after Hawaii Intern year, and Madison Residency credentials. But yeah, never seen a guy a few years out get a vice-chair position.
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I know the state of Wisconsin is pretty white and im sure everyone in dept is very fine, the very best people, but damn that is a white department. That roster makes a great argument for representation (faculty and resident roster). Maybe it does not. Maybe the Harari son spot could have gone to a very disadvantaged URM, but maybe next time I guess.
I don’t care about Harvard med. sorry doesn’t get you that position 4 years out of residency. Sure as **** don’t care where he did his transitional year- not applicable at all to the field. And also don’t care about doing his residency at Madison as we have already established that the chairman practices favoritism and nepotism. I would have far more respect if Harari made the effort of not surrounding himself with white male cronies from his residency program.
Yes the state is 90% white. What bothers me about this situation is that Harari couldn’t even be bothered to give it to his senior female faculty and if he offered her and she refused, he should’ve done a nationwide search. The sexism bothers me- pretty sure Wisconsin is not 90% male.
And I’m also saying that across the nation, not just Harari, but our society wouldn’t ever think that a person of color or a female 4 years out of residency gets to be vice chair. Not at all. But we have a fine example of a white male getting a nonsense position. Sorry Saved By the Bell but you got that position for the wrong reason...should have gone to Jessie. But if I’m wrong and you can provide me with an example let me know. I would love to be proven wrong.
From what I can tell your only beef with this guy being the vice chair is that he’s a white male. You know nothing about him but feel free to make assumptions about his hiring based on his sex and skin color. That used to be called racist and sexist before they tried to change definitions on us.
Also, I fundamentally disagree that there is systemic racism in American medicine.
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Funny name notwithstanding, at least the guy didn't get the job just by hanging around for a long time, making the department a bunch of money, and publishing a bunch of nonsense. It looks like the department there is going in a less clinical direction (read: less profitable direction) than any other academic program in the nation. This young guy seems to have gotten the research fellowships off the ground, which suits that direction. I think that is commendable when the rest of the country is just going for the last cash grab. I guess it doesn't bother me he's a white male. His role seems to be pushing one, singular academic department in the direction we'd prefer all of them to go.
EDIT: The intern year thing was tongue-in-cheek.
EDIT: The intern year thing was tongue-in-cheek.
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Wrong Wisconsin, I think.
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I guess the one positive is that ASTRO invited such a radical that this board is motivated to have this conversation in the first place.
The virtue signalling by ASTRO and money grab by the self-proclaimed anti-capitalist are still disgusting.
The virtue signalling by ASTRO and money grab by the self-proclaimed anti-capitalist are still disgusting.
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Hah you're right my bad. Forgot there's more than one program there
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Nothing to add except the website says he was appointed in 2018, so only two years out.
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Welcome to 2020, friends.
You have an issue with the vice chair of UW Madison primarily because of the color of his skin, his sex (if you believe biological sex is a real thing, I guess you do), and to a lesser degree presumably his age. This is what virtue looks like. This is what racial justice looks like. This is not racism at all! The definition of the word racism was racist, so you had to change it.
We are living in Orwellian dystopia. Some animals are more equal than others. Some racists are not actually racist. Words have no meaning. 2+2=5.
Critical race theory is a lie. It is fundamentally racist and creates and stokes the problem which it claims to solve. It makes people hate each other (or at the very least themselves) based on the color of their skin. It is toxic. Systemic racism in medicine is a hoax. It does not exist. There are a few prejudiced individuals out there and some who judge others based on skin color rather than merit, sure. We just saw evidence of that. There is no secret back room of good-old-boys tossing files in the trash or a ghost in the machine trying to deny blacks admission to medical school and residency. There certainly was 100 years ago. Things have changed. Stuff happened. Lots of stuff. The opposite is actually true with affirmative action.
"There is nothing to be done so don't even really try."
Nothing more really needs to be said in response to this comment. We are right, you are wrong. Shut up and agree with us if you want to keep your job and livelihood. All white and Asian males report to our Maoist re-education seminars.
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Could not agree more. I mentioned this previously. Most of us, whether left center or right, are not stupid/insane and will immediately see the flaws in this nonsense. The Kendi and DiAngelo crowd are an extremely vocal minority that gaslight everyone into thinking they are mainstream. Unfortunately we enrich them in the process.
The residency program in question was conceived (i.e. a physician was hired to start paperwork) cc. 2011. At that tim (as I remember myself well) job market was OK. They could not forsee what was about to happen.
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Usually more of a lurker, but looking at the vice chair's resume he did get a NIH DP5 grant which is very impressive (arguably harder than a R01). I'm not sure if that makes you quite vice chair material, but certainly a big accomplishment from the research front.
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Yeah. I think it's seems clear that Madison is trending the way of a research department, which is admirable. As such, Iit makes sense they promote someone who has the greatest success in that arena regardless of sex or race or age or whatever.
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This should always be the case as it always make sense.
Kendi would propose, from what I can tell, a government watchdog agency that would ensure leadership positions in the public and private sectors are appropriately diverse with future proportionality artifically adjusted to account for historical disproportionality.
You do realize in order to get the major grants you need enormous support from your home institution including protected research time, money to hire people (by your institution initially) to get the basic data to have a thesis for your grant. It’s not just a thought experiment. Your chair has to truly believe in you to support you. I do believe in both systemic racism and sexism in medicine. If you want to use the word gender over sex please do so for the sake of inclusiveness. I suppose I cannot speak for the vicechair as to which gender they identify with. He appears to be biologically male but oh I could stereotyping completely. Maybe he’s non-binary and Madison is super woke.
www.google.com
How Big Is the Gender Gap in Science Research Funding?
Two new studies look at who wins the prestigious grants and prizes that can make or break a scientist's career.
www.google.com
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I am searching for facts. WHo was named vice-chair at what department? UW-Madison, MCW? I can't find a vice-chair for either department.
UW-Madison- just click through the bios of the 17 males. One of them is vice chair.
Also- i can’t speak for that particular grant or even when said person got it because I don’t see it on his bio. But writing on your CV and grant applications you became vice chair 2 years after residency is going to help you get grants—> getting grants gives your chair support for making you vice chair 2 years after residency—> staying vice chair helps you get more grants—> more grants again helps your chair convince the rest of UW you deserve it and also helps you get OTHER grants> stay vice chair —> get more grants. I would still like for someone to point out to me another institution where a woman or BIPOC got be vice chair 2 years after graduating from residency. But maybe you are right - maybe UW is super supportive of young researchers. I’d like to see how many other young people of various genders get to have a high up leadership position at UW in their respective departments.
Also- i can’t speak for that particular grant or even when said person got it because I don’t see it on his bio. But writing on your CV and grant applications you became vice chair 2 years after residency is going to help you get grants—> getting grants gives your chair support for making you vice chair 2 years after residency—> staying vice chair helps you get more grants—> more grants again helps your chair convince the rest of UW you deserve it and also helps you get OTHER grants> stay vice chair —> get more grants. I would still like for someone to point out to me another institution where a woman or BIPOC got be vice chair 2 years after graduating from residency. But maybe you are right - maybe UW is super supportive of young researchers. I’d like to see how many other young people of various genders get to have a high up leadership position at UW in their respective departments.
4 years to Vice chair? How about 4 years to chair?
Ben Carson was chief resident in neurosurgery in 1983 at Hopkins, took a year to be chief registrar in Australia, and then when he came back to Hopkins in 1984 he was made Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery.
So, there you have it: "Another institution where a woman or BIPOC got be vice chair 2 years after graduating from residency."
I think we can agree that Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins is certainly at least as prestigious as vice chair of radonc at UW.
So, there you have it: "Another institution where a woman or BIPOC got be vice chair 2 years after graduating from residency."
I think we can agree that Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins is certainly at least as prestigious as vice chair of radonc at UW.
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Err..maybe you can give the initials? ALthough not sure why you can't post the link as it is public information.
Thank you for that example. I truly appreciate it. I have Carson’s current history of beliefs and I will say to you that that so long as Saved by the Bell doesn’t end up with believing the nonsense Carson believes he deserves to be vice chair infinitely more than that man. Carson didn’t deserve that position at all.
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He/she posted a picture of Zach Morris from saved by the bell, and there is a young-appearing Zach Morris on the UW website with vice-chair listed on the description. I'm no Sherlock but........
Why this individual decided to call out this particular individual from UW is however a mystery to me.
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Ok figured it out. Rhodes Scholar with four advanced degrees is impressive. I don't know the particulars but my guess is that his responsibilities as vice-chair are largely to drive the research effort. It is quite early to be named to such a position but I doubt you will find many more accomplished than him four years from training. I hope that the admin burden doesn't interfere with his research efforts.
Relevant to the original post how long before we will not be able to use the term
Rhodes Scholarship - Wikipedia
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I think you are allowing your political views to cloud your judgment of Dr Carson as a physician.
His biography is quite compelling. I doubt many of us started in circumstances similar to what he experienced as a child.
Ben Carson - Movie, Quotes & Books
Renowned neurosurgeon Ben Carson is the United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, appointed by President Donald Trump.
I didn’t post the saved by the bell picture. It was someone else. I actually didn’t even realize the names matched tbh.
We’re talking about ASTRO leadership and vice chairs generally become chairs who are often involved in ASTRO leadership (not all of them). I might be wrong- maybe 30% of chairs in radiation oncology are female- I haven’t gone through and looked. But this is how people get a huge boost in their initial career. I mean getting this title super early in one’s career sets them up for life. It would be great if females also got this early boost in their careers because a chair believed in them. It happens for some females (but usually in form of residency director not vice chair - but again someone can prove me wrong like OTN did with the Carson ex) but it takes much longer for them to move on to vice chair and finally reach chair (if at all). There was an excellent article in a journal about how men are assumed to have potential but women have to prove decades of accomplishments to get a lesser amount of that belief (the belief that they have potential) as can be exemplified by Pete Buttigieg doing suprisingly well in the Democratic primaries (in my opinion as you can guess undeservedly well). And the reason I was thinking of UW is because the son matching and someone had actually told me already that the vice chair at UW was super young so I started clicking on profiles to see who it was. I am biased (and admittedly esp so because of the nepotism and so I don’t trust Harari’s judgement- and you know I could be wrong. Maybe Harari’s son is AMAZING!). Carson is a great example of BIPOC (and maybe specific to neurosurgery he deserved the spot but he doesn’t have the best scientific mind). In the general wokeness of the world, yes ASTRO voted a female president and sure they jump on the bandwagon of Kendi (whose book I have not read and not sure I will because I agree with some of your criticisms) but I think they have a long way to go to be more supportive of inclusive leadership. FWIW, I may actually be age-ist because I think someone getting such a leadership position that fast is premature whether female or male. I’ve also seen private practices male males chair early (very fast and very young) and it wasn’t well deserved and resulted in nepotism.
He’s a creationist...and he has said off things about Big Bang Theory...I have nothing bad to say about him as a neurosurgeon. But yes I don’t trust the Trump admin and don’t believe Carson deserves his current position- you are correct on that.I think you are allowing your political views to cloud your judgment of Dr Carson as a physician.
His biography is quite compelling. I doubt many of us started in circumstances similar to what he experienced as a child.
Ben Carson - Movie, Quotes & Books
Renowned neurosurgeon Ben Carson is the United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, appointed by President Donald Trump.www.biography.com
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Originally only white men
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Your criticism of him is based on his religious beliefs?
We may have some common ground here. Rad Onc does have a historical problem with toxic leaders. This is not the same as present systemic racism/sexism being the sole cause for race/sex disproprotionalities. I am sorry the Paul Wallner dinosaurs of our world have left such a nasty taste in the mouth of our young when it comes to how white male radiation oncologists are viewed. These people, however, are again a tiny but very visible minority. The vast majority of us want everyone to be viewed on merit and character alone and just as much as we don't want to give a spot to someone because they check off the most victim categories on the intersectionality spectrum, we also don't want to promote someone just because they are the WASP with exactly the right elite Ivy-league background that reminds the chair of his family and what he wanted for his sons. All of it is wrong.
We've said it before- there is a fair amount of nepotism/family connection going on in radonc. I don't think it's necessarily all ill-intended. Radiation oncology is cool (at least we can all agree on that) and (was?) hard to discover, so having a mother or father as a radonc helps one get past one of the biggest barriers to becoming one.
And that nepotism is by no means restricted to white men in our field.
And that nepotism is by no means restricted to white men in our field.
- Status
