Article - IMO welcomes plans for medical students

[chicagoml]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0201/health.html

01 February 2006 16:28

The Irish Medical Organisation has welcomed plans to more than double the number of places for medical students.

However, the organisation warned that graduate entry to medicine must not be a ploy by the Government to charge students fees for education.

The Government is to increase the number of places for medical students by 180 over the next four years.


A new system to allow graduates with degrees in other areas to enter medicine will also be introduced from September next year.

An expert group is to be asked to devise an objective aptitude test to determine which graduates are suitable for training as doctors.

305 students from Ireland and other EU countries enter medical school in Ireland each year to train as doctors. This number was capped by the Government in the late 1970s and it has never been changed.

But two reports published today, the Fottrell and Buttimer reports on undergraduate and postgraduate medical training, say Ireland needs more doctors and that the entry system to medicine should be changed.

As a result, the Ministers for Health and Education today announced plans to increase the number of places for Irish and EU medical students by 180.

This programme will cost over €12 million and will begin this September.

A system to allow graduates from other areas to enter medicine will also be introduced from September 2007, with 60 places a year for this group.

Commenting on plans to introduce a suitability and aptitude test for medicine, the IMO said that the existing points-based entry system was safe from interference and any form of canvassing.

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[chiefy]

How will this effect those applying for Fall 2006? Are there more spaces available starting this year?

Thanks for showing the forum the article; it's good to know.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0201/health.html

01 February 2006 16:28

The Irish Medical Organisation has welcomed plans to more than double the number of places for medical students.

However, the organisation warned that graduate entry to medicine must not be a ploy by the Government to charge students fees for education.

The Government is to increase the number of places for medical students by 180 over the next four years.


A new system to allow graduates with degrees in other areas to enter medicine will also be introduced from September next year.

An expert group is to be asked to devise an objective aptitude test to determine which graduates are suitable for training as doctors.

305 students from Ireland and other EU countries enter medical school in Ireland each year to train as doctors. This number was capped by the Government in the late 1970s and it has never been changed.

But two reports published today, the Fottrell and Buttimer reports on undergraduate and postgraduate medical training, say Ireland needs more doctors and that the entry system to medicine should be changed.

As a result, the Ministers for Health and Education today announced plans to increase the number of places for Irish and EU medical students by 180.

This programme will cost over €12 million and will begin this September.

A system to allow graduates from other areas to enter medicine will also be introduced from September 2007, with 60 places a year for this group.

Commenting on plans to introduce a suitability and aptitude test for medicine, the IMO said that the existing points-based entry system was safe from interference and any form of canvassing.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Well from reading this what i see is that the EU and IR students will benefit but not people from the USA/Canada.

 

[dr strangelove]

About time.

The situation has been ridiculous for at least ten years with regard to the entry requirements into Irish medical schools. Honestly, I'd say there's no other country in the world where 50% of the population lucky enough to get a place had to repeat their final year exams to get the entry requirements.

I know it's selfish of me, but I wish they had done something sooner; then I wouldn't have had to waste so many years (and leave my country) in order to become a doctor. Still, it's their loss in the end. Myself and countless other talented individuals have left the country to pursue our dreams and have no intention of returning. The irony is that due to reform of UK postgraduate training, I'll probably be a consultant before the Irish students who started 4 years earlier than me.

This is only half the battle. Until they reform the ridiculous Leaving Cert entry system there are still going to be many people who will make great doctors being left out in favour of people who are good at subjects that have nothing to do with medicine. Do you notice what they say about the points based system? What I'd like to ask them is why is the points based system good enough for Irish candidates, yet foreign students are assessed on a larger range of criteria that has a great deal more flexibility?

How will this effect those applying for Fall 2006? Are there more spaces available starting this year?

I imagine the places will only be for EU students. The article doesn't say it, but there is a possibility that they might reduce the number of places going to foreign students rather than expanding the total number of places. My reasoning behind this is that when I was in UCD 3 years ago, they simply did not have the facilities to teach more medical students. The lecture theatres were full; several of the foreign students wanted to sue the school for failing to provide adequate facilities, but nothing ever came of it. I'm not too sure what it's like for the other schools, but I'm of the impression that unless new facilities are built, or the government buys back the internation students places, the medical schools won't be able to handle the additional influx.

 

[medgirl20]

I think only about 60 of these places are coming on board this Autumn. From what I've been reading the places will be replacing non-EU places. We must be the only country where ~20,000 apply for 305 places every year .015% chance of getting in. Americans on the pre-allo forums were complaining about 50% of applicants being rejected.

 

[dlformiga1]

Oh, that sucks for us non-EU applicants through the AB. Man, right in the year I'm applying too... sorry to sound selfish, but I was (well, am) really looking forward to the prospect of studying in Ireland. By the way, the odds of getting in here in Canada are not that great either...

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Dl

well there is nothing saying that the spots will be taken away from NON eu ppl, it is just suggestive. If they are smart, they will maintain the non-eu slots to maintain funding (which is why they let us in in the first place). As it currently stands, if they take away non eu slots to add eu then they will lose both the tuition of the 60 non-eu ppl and have to pony up money for the new ones. I highly doubt that is the solution they are looking for.

I would bet they are considering beefing up facilities in order to accomodate both. At least i hope so.


As far as getting in Canada. You actually have a much harder time getting in there than USA students getting in here. 16 med schools (i believe) in canada for the whole country and no alternative paralell systems such as DO.

 

[medgirl20]

In the Irish Times today (the paper of record in Ireland) they had several articles on the whole admissions to medicine. The plan from the Fotrell report is to cut the number of non EU students from 60% to 25% and increase the number of Irish. Personally I agree with it there are many well educated Irish students, more so than some non EU applicants who gain places, who could take up the places. If the Buttimer report is implimented hopefully the increase in places in medicine will lead to more Irish doctors within our healthcare system.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Medgirl

Well if they said it directly then there is the answer.

Even though i am an applicant from NA and would love to go there, I absolutely agree with you. Unfortunately, this may mean many of us will not goto medical school in Ireland and will add a year or 2 of waiting here in the USA. (i wont goto carib. med schools).

 

[medgirl20]

Medgirl

Well if they said it directly then there is the answer.

Even though i am an applicant from NA and would love to go there, I absolutely agree with you. Unfortunately, this may mean many of us will not goto medical school in Ireland and will add a year or 2 of waiting here in the USA. (i wont goto carib. med schools).

i'm glad you agree with me thought I was going to get lynched for saying that. I just think it's ridiculous when it's easier to get into medicine in Britian than it is in Ireland. I'm one of the lucky ones that got in straight from Leaving Cert without having to spend a fortune on repeating or getting grinds but unfortunately I'm in the minority.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

hey

you are absolutely correct. My personal wants aside, the needs of the country and its people far outweight the hopes of a few hundread applicants who most likely wont stay in IR. Healthcare (including medicine) is about taking care of people not getting through school

Good luck medgirl, im sure you will be amn asset to your country and its people.

 

[Jocks]

Before getting too defeatist, I think everyone (from NA) should realize that the irish schools are currently in the middle of the admissions season. It would be near impossible to implement any of the recomendations for the classes starting Fall 2006. These are not small changes being proposed, and therefore they will take time to completely implement. Having said that I think next years AB applicants may have a more difficult time than we did.

 

[dlformiga1]

Yeah, I did think about that, and I think you might be right to a certain point. I guess I just worry that just because things have been made public now, it doesn't mean that the admission committees didn't know/expect that this would be happening now, and therefore possibly have started implementing changes already. Maybe I'm just being paranoid (I do that sometimes), but I don't expect the public to be notified of such things at the same time as the ad coms.

 

[Arb]

Any chance AB people know the changes to the admissions numbers?

Reading it again, they say they are starting in September. I don't think the changes are being implemented for this admissions cycle.

 

[leorl]

And also realize that this is going to be a gradual change happening over the next 4 years (probably even longer), so will come in phases. It's a good move, but they don't say how they are going to provide funding for the increase in spaces. While I hope eventually they don't have to rely on foreign funding, I can't see in the near future how places for foreign students can be cut as they're so dependent on our money at the moment. I also echo the poster who questions how these students are going to be taught, as right now, medical teaching and facilities are a bit understaffed. Enough to be taught properly, but annoyingly sparse enough not to offer exactly the most efficient teaching which students demand.