Army Special Forces -- Enlistment options?

[J25875999]

You two are like peas in a pod.

The Physician that wants to be an enlisted medic and the pretentious, pathetic tortured soul masquerading as a "hardcore" former infantryman.

To J5287.... Get ****ed buddy. Go cry in your beer and practice your thousand yard stare at the bar. Just do it away from this forum. Don't dishonor the service of the many Military Docs here who've probably seen a lot too yet don't feel the need to wail and advertise so loudly the weight of their own private crosses.

Have a Nice day.

61N

Here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hqv5yBaXaI

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[SpecOps]

Hello,

I am a Family Medicine Resident and have a question. After residency I want to join the Army Special Forces as a active 18D ODA medic, not just Battalion Surgeon.

My question is whether it is a better idea to go through OCS as a Direct Commission to get through basic training and then resign my commission, or to rather instead straight enlist through the 18X program and get through Basic/AIT that way?

Before someone brings it up, I thoroughly understand the PT, incredible hard work, and motivation involved and have been researching and training for this for some time. And please no responses about the stupidity/craziness/absurdity of this decision, I get enough of that from my friends, family, and colleagues.

Thanks in advance

After reading through all the responses on here, it is evident 99% have no idea what they are talking about.

There are several who have done what you want to do. However, most did SF first then went to med school. Once you have an MD it will be difficult for you to get on a team. The pathway through SFAS and the Q was closed to docs for almost 20 years and has only recently opened back up, so if you go in after your MD you can get tabbed as a doc, but won't see team time.

Being a BN Surgeon is a blast and you do get down range with the teams if that is what you want. You can also "moonlight" with a SWAT team as a civilian - especially if you've seen combat.

An SF group is not going to accept you until after you are qualified as a doc.

Most recruiters don't know what they are talking about. Call an SF GRP HQ directly.

Though in FlameBoy's day SF BN Surgeons were GMOs, today you've got docs who are BC in Peds Ophtho, OB/GYN, Fam Med, ER, CV Surg, Ortho, NSR, etc....

 

[SpecOps]

BYW, most people don't understand. Follow your dreams. It will be the best decision you will ever make - better than med school. They are just jealous.

 

[SpecOps]

Have you done any real research?

What is prompting this "decision?" Do you hate residency that much? Do you attach so little value to your medical degree and your years of postgraduate training that you think you'd render better service as a glorified paramedic than a trained Doctor? Or have you just watched too many war movies?

If you washed out of the Q course (likely) they'd make you what you should have been in the first place- a Medical Officer, not an infantryman.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you need to sit down and ask yourself some deep questions about what is motivating this, and if you're still committed, then you need to see a shrink, maybe at the mil's expense.

61N

Case in point - this guy's just jealous. He sees what the SF guys get to do up close and personal and is mad he can't cut it.

 

[SpecOps]

I am trying to find the information, but I can't, but it was about an ER doc that enlisted in the military and, I believe, was an 18D. He then got killed. I thought he was US Army and killed in Afghanistan, but I can't find it right now.

ER Doc. Friend of mine. Was in the 3/20th SFG, (A). SGT Roy Wood, MD.

 

[SpecOps]

Maybe he meant fort brag...nah.

Also, if you think the SF is going to let a doctor enlist you are dreaming. They want people that will make SF their only priority. A doctor has another item that is hard to abandon....MEDICINE.

On a positive note, the SF community will let their docs do most of the same crazy training and schools. But on deployment, you have to be a doc....Not a soldier. This is the best of both worlds.

Bull S***

 

[SpecOps]

Most bn docs are GMO, just out of school, before residency, a Captain's slot.

Uh, NO. See post above. Most are Board Certified specialists. Even in the conventional Army, GMOs are being phased out.

 

[SpecOps]

You two are like peas in a pod.

The Physician that wants to be an enlisted medic and the pretentious, pathetic tortured soul masquerading as a "hardcore" former infantryman.

To J5287.... Get ****ed buddy. Go cry in your beer and practice your thousand yard stare at the bar. Just do it away from this forum. Don't dishonor the service of the many Military Docs here who've probably seen a lot too yet don't feel the need to wail and advertise so loudly the weight of their own private crosses.

Have a Nice day.

61N

You need Zoloft - and a life. Go do PT.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Uh, NO. See post above. Most are Board Certified specialists. Even in the conventional Army, GMOs are being phased out.

Really. You have numbers to support this claim or just believe its true because if you keep saying it, it must be true?

 

[SpecOps]

Really. You have numbers to support this claim or just believe its true because if you keep saying it, it must be true?

Because I know many of the current SF docs personally. That's why it's true. Wanna really find out? Go to SOMA sometime.

 

[hwatson]

After reading through all the responses on here, it is evident 99% have no idea what they are talking about.

There are several who have done what you want to do. However, most did SF first then went to med school. Once you have an MD it will be difficult for you to get on a team. The pathway through SFAS and the Q was closed to docs for almost 20 years and has only recently opened back up, so if you go in after your MD you can get tabbed as a doc, but won't see team time.

Being a BN Surgeon is a blast and you do get down range with the teams if that is what you want. You can also "moonlight" with a SWAT team as a civilian - especially if you've seen combat.

An SF group is not going to accept you until after you are qualified as a doc.

Most recruiters don't know what they are talking about. Call an SF GRP HQ directly.

The person that said all SF BN Surgeons are GMOs is an idiot. Try Peds Ophtho, OB/GYN, Fam Med, ER, CV Surg, Ortho, NSR, etc....

I would also add that you may not have all the answers. I have worked with the SF conus and OCONUS. My post was accurate and true. In fact the GP I worked with wants me to return and be a BN Surgeon.

 

[FlameBoy]

I may be a litte dated but in > 12 years in Gp I never had a board certified Bn Doc.

 

[SpecOps]

I believe I am the only retired 18D/Z (20 year army vet) with > 12 years in SF including 7 years team time, who then went on to med school. It is possible to serve in SF as a physician, each battalion is assigned a doc who sometime deploys with the bn hq on missions. Most of these are regular army docs, (you must be airborne), but all have an option to go to the "Q" course and earn their SF tabs and green beret if they feel the need for some suffering. However, the real action is and always will be on an A-team, and that is not really a option for a MD. But service to your country in uniform as a doctor is a truly noble cause.

FlameBoy, my sincere apologies. I missed the fact that you were an 18D/Z. I dropped the ball with regard to SA and attention to detail here and owe you a case of your favorite beer.

I was a bit flustered with all the "experts" here with absolutely no military background giving advice about stuff they know nothing about.

Yeah, things have changed a bit. I've seen plenty of GMOs on the conventional side and in FS and DMO school. However, since I've been involved with SF (15 years) I've not run across a single GMO at BN or GRP.

Blue skies.

 

[begemot]

Case in point - this guy's just jealous. He sees what the SF guys get to do up close and personal and is mad he can't cut it.

What do SF guys do that should prompt someone to be jealous? Have a lot of sex?

 

[Apocales]

What do SF guys do that should prompt someone to be jealous? Have a lot of sex?

Yes, and mostly with people other than ourselves

 

[rocketfrog03]

Hey all,

I'm the new guy here, and thought I may be able to help with my first post on this forum.

Just a little about me: I am not an 18D, but I am a 5392 (navy NEC for SEAL medic), so I went through the "short-course" which is the first 6 months of 18D (we call it SOCM in the navy) and I went to my last refresher at Bragg just before my deployment in early 08. Right now, I'm a junior at a 4yr getting my Bachelor's so I can go to med school. Although I am no longer with the teams, I still wear a Trident and know enough people that may be able to help you. I'm still active duty, and I'm one of the lucky few who were selected for the Navy's Seaman-to-Admiral program for the Med Corp.

So being a guy who basically is doing the opposite of what you want to do (SEAL medic ---> doctor) I can probably help you out. I only know of one team guy who resigned his commission (I believe he was an ensign at the time) to enlist in the teams, so I do know it is possible for you to resign your commission to go through the 18.x course. Whether or not the Army will allow you to do that is another story. I can't imagine they are going to let you go that easily considering they put a decent investment into your education. And while 18D's are extremely expensive to produce, I'm gonna bet that med school is more expensive.

But, if you do somehow manage to resign your commission, you should make sure you have some sort of contract for the 18.x pipeline (that's where a recruiter comes in). I also have the phone numbers for the JFKSWC 18D school house at Bragg so I can put you in touch with some of the staff there and I'm sure they can help you out as well.

Either route you decide to go, I'm sure you'll make a tremendous impact. 18D's are no mere "medics." They are the trauma experts on the field. While us SEAL medics always had a little friendly competition with 18Ds, I can tell you from personal experience that 18Ds practiced their field much more often than SEAL medics did. We usually had other specialties that took up most of our time, and unfortunately, medicine was not always at the forefront of the training schedule for us. Needless to say, I got plenty of trauma work overseas, which also is the main reason why I left the teams to pursue med school. I feel I can better serve my country as a surgeon ... plus my bones were starting to get a little achy from runnin and gunnin

Feel free to PM me for those phone numbers.

 

[Apollyon]

Hey all,

I'm the new guy here, and thought I may be able to help with my first post on this forum.

See, this is why I love soldiers (agape, not eros) - just from this post, you are solid. You come across as real, and as sincere. There's no BS.

It was like a guy told me in military college - "I won't stab you in the back - I'll stab you in the heart while looking you straight in the eye".

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hqv5yBaXaI

Just a comment that has nothing to do with military experience...just "internet experience"

I always find it veryy interesting whenever someone makes a profile just for the sake of answering one thread (which btw his only other post is about how everyone should get out of medicine because Obama is ruining it...what a dedicated guy). Hasn't been active since that last post, I wonder why?

Wow you know what a "fobbit" is?! Man that's so cool only the most secret special forces guys know that. Oh...and anyone who's picked up a book on Afghanistan/Iraq. If you were a "real" SF guy you would appreciate the fobbits that kept your ass supplied and supported just like they appreciate the people you claim to represent.

 

[skatertudoroga]

Can someone tell me what exactly drs attached to a special forces unit do? I've read numerous threads where you discuss whether they can go to that special forces school. But what exactly do they do as a job? Would they go to some remote village in some amazon country and work there as a doctor for several weeks for "good will"? Or if they don't do it(i.e. it's the job of a PA or SF Medic), then whats the point of even deploying and working outside your normal setting(i.e. in that case being attached to SF or even completing that course ads nothing unique to your work experience)? So assuming they can work in those jungles, does it mean that if they volunteered, they could spend as much time working overseas(in the jungles) as the other SF?

I am asking this because most of your discussions are frustrating to read. You discuss some cliches, like if you want to be deployed it means you want to be a "door kicker" and then you state that being attached to SF is very desirable yet you have not stated that they do anything more than work at a regular hospital and occasionally hold clinic for SF family members/support personnel. Or if they do deploy are they basically bureaucrats or actually holding a clinic in some village?

And another question i have: can a family practitioner doctor really do anything more advanced than a SF medic or PA in a remote area? I imagine a medical professional can help in a situation where someone is sick, you draw his blood, set up a lab to analyze it, and then give the right antibiotics. Or perhaps just give broad-spectrum antibiotics to begin with. Whats the need for a dr in this setting? I would think the only setting where Family Drs are superior to midlevels is when they see patients longitudinally and manage something like diabetes. Not when you just give some pill and leave a week later. Thoughts?

 

[rocketfrog03]

To skatertudoroga:

I can only answer you from I have personally experienced, and that is only Navy side. As far as the teams, there are no doctors nor are there any PA's attached to the teams. Now each platoon had 1-2 SEAL medics (either short course or long course 18Ds), and then the entire team shared the medical department on the support side, which consisted of 1-2 IDCs and a couple corpsman. There were however PAs and doctors attached to LOGSU, which is the support command for all the odd numbered teams on the west coast. And when our team deployed, they would send one or two of them. They were GMOs I believe, and they didn't really do anything medically related except sick call. Most of their duties consisted of taking watch shifts at the TOC, especially since any medevac/casevac went straight to the nearest surgical capable hospital. These docs and PA's never went out the wire, and if they did it was only to transfer between the various bases.

Like you said, doctors are not really needed in the field. Any confident / capable medic can stop a hemorrhage and get an airway and stabilize long enough for the casualty to get to the hospital, where he will get more definitive treatment. There is no unit out there that is going to give a doctor any kind of tactical position, at least our team wouldn't. When I finish up school and return to the Navy, I am going to hope that I never get stationed with a team. Not that I think it won't be cool seeing some old faces and what not, but I would hate for any kind of perishable medical skills to go to waste sitting at a team. The doctors overseas that were best utilized were exactly where they were supposed to be, in the aid stations / hospitals. Just my 2 cents.

-and you're exactly right, there isn't too much to do for someone in the field (medcaps) in such a short timeframe besides give a broad spectrum antibiotic and motrin. Having a doctor do that would be a waste of resources.

 

[skatertudoroga]

Thank you, Rocketfrog.

 

[Shokdoc]

I am trying to find the information, but I can't, but it was about an ER doc that enlisted in the military and, I believe, was an 18D. He then got killed. I thought he was US Army and killed in Afghanistan, but I can't find it right now.

At the same time, there is a guy with whom I work who spent 5 years as an army doc (trained in EM), who went to law school (which, he said, contributed to the demise of his first marriage), and then joined the Marine Corps, as, he said, any of the other 3 services would have made him work as a doctor, not as a JAG.

I also heard (maybe here on SDN) about a dentist in Iraq who liked to carry the rifle, and would go on patrol with the ground pounders (but his regular job was teeth - not 11B).

He was a 20+ year special forces medical sergeant in an east coast national guard group who had completed medical school and practiced family medicine in Florida, he is greatly missed...and he was a legitimate badass in emergency medicine and critical care.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Don't burn yourself out bumping random old threads. An argumentative ridiculous cheerleader is what this board needs to keep it an effective tool for dissuading uncertain premeds.