Are you really Doctors?

[uhoh!]

..Prowler in the yard..

Pig Destroyer!! Aaaaaaaarrggggggghhhhhh!!!!!!

(To the rest: Sorry for the unrelated shout out..Ignore, and Carry on.)

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[EctopicFetus]

My understanding is that the PhDs were referred to as "doctor" long before we were, and the physicians named the medical degree "doctor of medicine" and started calling themselves "doctors" to lend credibility to their profession (back when we were associated with barbers) by affiliating ourselves with the actual doctors (the PhDs). And, no; I don't have a PhD and don't have an ax to grind against the medical profession.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title)

Clearly since you are a history buff you know how physicians and surgeons came about right..

Surgeons were the Barbers and butchers of a town. I propose that anyone who wants to be a surgeon should have to go to beauty school or a slaughterhouses.. silly idea..

 

[toofache32]

Word. I think the proper thing that most of them adhere to is the placement of PhD after the name if they wish, but not the Dr. in front, which is reserved for physicians. Most PhDs I know follow that rule and usually refer to themselves as "Mister".

What the hell are you talking about? Where did you find these "rules?"

 

[mysophobe]

Chillax buddy. "Rule" was used figuratively. It is just standard etiquette that PhDs and other doctoral degree holders write Joe Smith, PhD instead of Dr Joe Smith in order to avoid confusing them with medical doctors. Most of the people I know with advanced degrees only refer to themselves as "doctor" when they are teaching. I even know some surgeons that call themselves "mister" outside the hospital.

 

[toofache32]

Doctor (MD)
If somebody asks a PhD what they do for a living they dont respond "I'm a doctor", which a reasonable person would interpret as them being a physician.

I've never understood the "I'm a doctor" answer some physicians give. It doesn't tell the other person anything because the MD is such a generic degree. "I'm a Pediatrician".....now that's an answer. "I'm a doctor" is just an arrogant & indirect way of saying "worship me."

Get over yourselves. Nobody else cares. The only physicians who regularly save any lives are the trauma/general surgeons which are maybe 5% or less of all the physicians.

 

[toofache32]

Chillax buddy.

Chillax? You gotta be kidding me.

I even know some surgeons that call themselves "mister" outside the hospital.

What a novelty. Why on earth would a physician do differently? Outside of the hospital, why would it matter what your job was? "Doctor" is only appropriate in your medical practice. Anywhere else and you're just mental masturbating.

I'm not picking on you, dude, you just brought up something I've seen at restaurants, etc. I can't help but roll my eyes.

My observation has been that MDs always put "Joe Smith, MD" whereas other professions put "Dr. Joe Smith" (instead of Joe Smith, DC) when they want people to assume they're an MD or hide their degree for some other reason.

 

[mysophobe]

Really? Must be a regional thing. Personally, I don't write Dr or DO or anything outside the hospital. If someone wants to know what I do, they can ask. I'm not about to go flaunting it around to people. But, if you're about to tell me that there aren't doctors walking around introducing themselves as Dr. Whatever, then I think you might be a little naive (sp?). My point was that most people I know don't give a crap about whether they are perceived as special or what-not, so they just avoid displaying any of it all together.

Why would you be picking on me? I never said anything about what I do.

 

[mysophobe]

Chillax? You gotta be kidding me.

It's from a movie. But seriously, relax a bit.

 

[penguins]

I've never understood the "I'm a doctor" answer some physicians give. It doesn't tell the other person anything because the MD is such a generic degree. "I'm a Pediatrician".....now that's an answer. "I'm a doctor" is just an arrogant & indirect way of saying "worship me."

Get over yourselves. Nobody else cares. The only physicians who regularly save any lives are the trauma/general surgeons which are maybe 5% or less of all the physicians.

Lots of people aren't smart enough to know what the specialties are. You say neurologist or orthopod, people don't always know what it is. I think it is way more snobby to say your specialty than to just say "doctor" - if they want to know what kind, they will ask a follow up question.

I don't like the attention. When I was in med school and people asked me what I did, I just said I was a student. Only upon further questioning did I admit it was med school. They treat you different or they start telling you about the boils on their butt (had that happen once with a stranger)!
When my parents send me mail now, they always adress it to "Dr. Penguins" - that is about as much attention as I can handle and I enjoy that.

 

[Hurricane]

When my parents send me mail now, they always adress it to "Dr. Penguins" - that is about as much attention as I can handle and I enjoy that.

Heh, my grandmother started doing that after I got my PhD. Pretty much he only other people who address me as such are the people who send me science junk mail.

My pet peeve: physicians who have some form of DR on their personalized license plates

 

[avgjoe]

I've never understood the "I'm a doctor" answer some physicians give. It doesn't tell the other person anything because the MD is such a generic degree. "I'm a Pediatrician".....now that's an answer. "I'm a doctor" is just an arrogant & indirect way of saying "worship me."

Get over yourselves. Nobody else cares. The only physicians who regularly save any lives are the trauma/general surgeons which are maybe 5% or less of all the physicians.

Thank you, thank you (going into GSurg)
But seriously, abt your initial comment, I bet that if you hear us saying 'I'm a surgeon', that you'll be making the same comment - that we're too arrogant to just simply say "i'm a doctor". An assumption on my part, but think it's much more 'normal' to just boil it down to doctor and if they want to ask more, they can.

 

[Leukocyte]

The only physicians who regularly save any lives are the trauma/general surgeons which are maybe 5% or less of all the physicians.

Peolpe do not appreciate something/someone until they NEED it/him/her.

Who "saves" the life of a women (and her baby) who is bleeding like crazy during delivery?

Who "saves" the life of the suicide-bound depressed patient?

Who "saves" the life of a person with a brain tumor?

Who "saves" the life of the kid with ALL?

Who "saves" the life of the guy with prostate cancer?

and on...and on...and on...

 

[tigershark]

I've never understood the "I'm a doctor" answer some physicians give. It doesn't tell the other person anything because the MD is such a generic degree. "I'm a Pediatrician".....now that's an answer. "I'm a doctor" is just an arrogant & indirect way of saying "worship me."

Get over yourselves. Nobody else cares. The only physicians who regularly save any lives are the trauma/general surgeons which are maybe 5% or less of all the physicians.

Wow, project your insecurities and ignorance much?

 

[thos]

I find the real usefulness of the label "doctor" is in giving patients the comfort that you know what you're doing, and in different settings that means different degrees. During school I never introduced myself as such, but after explaining "student doctor" to a few patients failed to help them differentiate, I never really corrected them when called me "doctor". We've all worked hard to get our degrees (MD, DDS, DVM, DO, OD, etc.), and we all deserve to be proud. As for PhDs, I happen to know a lot of them, and I can't think of a single one who would want to mislead someone into thinking they have skills they don't, but in the appropriate setting they too deserve respect for the amount of work put in.

 

[thos]

I reread my post, that's a pretty nice little Hallmark moment. Group hug.

 

[DrNick2006]

Like I said, "physician" is unambiguous. We don't need Dr Phils running around ruining everyone's cred.

We've got plenty of incompetents doing that for us.

 

[toofache32]

Peolpe do not appreciate something/someone until they NEED it/him/her.

Who "saves" the life of a women (and her baby) who is bleeding like crazy during delivery?

Who "saves" the life of the suicide-bound depressed patient?

Who "saves" the life of a person with a brain tumor?

Who "saves" the life of the kid with ALL?

Who "saves" the life of the guy with prostate cancer?

and on...and on...and on...

We all save lives....but not all of us wait until the last minute.

 

[penguins]

My pet peeve: physicians who have some form of DR on their personalized license plates

I know, those people are such nerds!

 

[deleted87716]

We all save lives....but not all of us wait until the last minute.

Hey, I like that. Mind if I use that one?

 

[Leukocyte]

We all save lives....but not all of us wait until the last minute.

-Trauma Surgery is to surgery as is Emergency Medicine is to Medicine

I have seen trauma surgeons CALL Ob/Gyns, Neurosurgeons, Vascular surgeons.....to the ER "at 3:00 AM" to save THEIR patient's lives...at the last minute.

 

[drPLUM]

... then one is not really a doctor unless they have a Phd in medicine...

LOL!

Please show me where I can get this "PhD in medicine". Please, I need this sort of PhD. LOL!

BTW, most people I know with PhD's got them in biochem, pathology, etc... not "medicine".

 

[highball]

My dad is a psychologist (PhD). To his patients he is Dr. highball. On his office door and on his paychecks it is highball PhD.

Aren't we forgetting what PhD stands for??? Doctor of Philosophy.

 

[aggie-master]

I find the real usefulness of the label "doctor" is in giving patients the comfort that you know what you're doing, and in different settings that means different degrees. During school I never introduced myself as such, but after explaining "student doctor" to a few patients failed to help them differentiate, I never really corrected them when called me "doctor". We've all worked hard to get our degrees (MD, DDS, DVM, DO, OD, etc.), and we all deserve to be proud. As for PhDs, I happen to know a lot of them, and I can't think of a single one who would want to mislead someone into thinking they have skills they don't, but in the appropriate setting they too deserve respect for the amount of work put in.

When I am a dentist, I'll probably have my employees call me Dr. aggie-master when saying my name to patients (ex. "Dr. aggie-master will be here in a minute to look at that tooth.") and then introduce myself by my first name.

I don't plan on referring to myself as Dr. anywhere outside of my job once I'm out of school. I might consider doing that if I was an M.D. though.

 

[Solideliquid]

When I am a dentist, I'll probably have my employees call me Dr. aggie-master when saying my name to patients (ex. "Dr. aggie-master will be here in a minute to look at that tooth.") and then introduce myself by my first name.

I don't plan on referring to myself as Dr. anywhere outside of my job once I'm out of school. I might consider doing that if I was an M.D. though.

I think it depends on the degree of formality. If you meet someone and you would normally be on a last name basis, I wouldn't refer to myself as Mr.

Also, when you are a dentist, and your staff tell your patients, "Dr. X will be with you shortly", or something and you introduce yourself by first name it sort of confuses patients. I say this because when your patient will want to ask you a question he or she may become confused as to how to address you, patients worry that it's disrespectful to call their doctor by their first name. Maybe I'm just weird.

 

[highball]

Who introduces themselves in a non-professional setting as Mr or Dr? "Hello, I'm Mr. Jones, nice to meet you. This is my wife, Mrs. Jones." Come on, people. At work, you introduce yourself as Joe Schmo and they say, "hello, Dr. Schmo, nice to meet you." Or "hello, Mr. Schmo, nice to meet you." It's not on you to tell them how to address you.

 

[penguins]

We have been working with a realestate agent in the town we are moving to and whenever he is introducing me to another realestate agent (for an open house or something) he always asks if he can introduce me as Dr. Penguins. I always say no but he always asks.
In part, it is probably his way of bragging that he has a doctor client but it is also (at least at first) because he thought I would want it that way.

I have to admit that when I graduated I was really tempted to get return adress labels that said "Penguins, M.D." to put on things to people i knew just because I was so freaking excited to finally have the title. Then I was worried it would just make me more likely to get robbed by someone seeing it and think there was hidden doctor cash in my matresses.
Somebody gave me an embosser that said "Penguins, M.D." on it for graduation and I love putting it on seals on evelopes to people like my close friends, parents and grandparents. They know I am just excited and not grandstanding.

My uncle is a PhD and he is Dr. Penguin-Uncle on the univ campus and in professional circles but is never Dr. other than those 2 venues. He is "proffessor".

I never see people introduce themselves as Dr. So-and-so. It is when they are men and their wives introduce them as a Dr.

 

[8744]

When I am a dentist, I'll probably have my employees call me Dr. aggie-master when saying my name to patients (ex. "Dr. aggie-master will be here in a minute to look at that tooth.") and then introduce myself by my first name.

I don't plan on referring to myself as Dr. anywhere outside of my job once I'm out of school. I might consider doing that if I was an M.D. though.


CGPA: 3.85
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DAT: Taking it on June 30th
Applying in May
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Accepted: none yet

Your CV in your signature might explain your lack of enthusuasm for the "Doctor" title. Once you get through dental school you might think differently.

 

[gasgirl0610]

Why is a person who graduates from medical school referred to as "Doctor"?
If the dictionary describes a doctor as a person who is awarded the highest degree in an academic discipline, then one is not really a doctor unless they have a Phd in medicine. Is it not true that an MD is the equivalent of a masters degree?

Have you lost your mind? Why are you even in this forum?

 

[NinerNiner999]

Impressive - 78 posts and no reply from the troll who started this thread...

 

[EctopicFetus]

My answer to the question are you really a doctor?

No, but i will be in 6 weeks

 

[EctopicFetus]

One more thing my wife is a JD and we both agree that we arent putting our "credentials" on anything except business cards. Its not going on my return address labels, my credit cards, my drivers license or anything else. For those purposes Mr. works just fine.

 

[deleted87716]

One more thing my wife is a JD and we both agree that we arent putting our "credentials" on anything except business cards. Its not going on my return address labels, my credit cards, my drivers license or anything else. For those purposes Mr. works just fine.

Wise move. My wife put my name followed by "MD" on my checks one time (without asking me first), and I had to endure every checkout clerk asking, "So, what kind of a doctor are you?" Followed, of course, by the usual personal medical questions. Grrr...

Although sometimes I'd have fun with it and make up fake subspecialty names like "cranioproctologist." It wasn't worth it, though.

 

[Firebird]

Word. I think the proper thing that most of them adhere to is the placement of PhD after the name if they wish, but not the Dr. in front, which is reserved for physicians. Most PhDs I know follow that rule and usually refer to themselves as "Mister".

"Doctor" is not reserved for MD's. As the OP noted, "Doctor" is for anyone who completes the highest level of education in any given field. That's how the word originated and that's how it's always been used. In fact, "doctor" referred to PhD long before it was used to refer to physicians.

It's funny, one of my instructors said that each semester of medical school during the first two years is equivilient to the course work of a master's. Also, the definition of a doctor is more along the lines of "one who teaches."

This is actually true, to some degree. PhD's learn far more basic science than we do. All of our classes in medical school are survey classes...they essentially teach the basics of medical sciences. For example, no one teaches a full medical school class on Pediatric Heart Pathology. What puts us above a Master's degree is the clinical years. They are what give us a "terminal level" education in our field.

 

[njbmd]

Why is a person who graduates from medical school referred to as "Doctor"?
If the dictionary describes a doctor as a person who is awarded the highest degree in an academic discipline, then one is not really a doctor unless they have a Phd in medicine. Is it not true that an MD is the equivalent of a masters degree?

Hi there,
I graduated from medical school and received the Doctor of Medicine degree therefore, I am referred to as Dr. I have the highest degree in the academic discipline of Medicine.

I also have finished graduate school and I have a Doctor of Philosophy degree. I actually do not have the highest degree in my academic discipline as the Doctor of Science or D.Sc is a doctorate of Science which can only be awarded to a Ph.D that has been earned at a University in the United Kingdom or under the British system. Could that mean that the Ph.D is only the equilvalent of a masters degree under the British system?

njbmd

 

[EctopicFetus]

This is actually true, to some degree. PhD's learn far more basic science than we do. All of our classes in medical school are survey classes...they essentially teach the basics of medical sciences. For example, no one teaches a full medical school class on Pediatric Heart Pathology. What puts us above a Master's degree is the clinical years. They are what give us a "terminal level" education in our field.

Uhh how much basic science do PhD's in English, History Communications, Political Science etc get?

 

[3dtp]

If someone hears you called Dr. KluverBucy, and they ask what you teach, tell them you're a real doctor, not one of those MD-wanna-be PhDs.

Hey, now, everybody knows that M.D. stands for medical deity and Ph.D. stands for piled high and deep. So, then PGY-x must stand for Post-GOD-year something or other. You all can abreviate that to G-3 for God-level 3.

Signed,

3dtp, MD, PhD.

(the md is first because it is considered the lower degree, in europe the degree granted is M.B, or MBBS (medical bacalaurate). But they also offer a D.Sc. which is not quite a Ph.D., but I'm not sure of what the precise differences.

 

[Firebird]

Uhh how much basic science do PhD's in English, History Communications, Political Science etc get?

I wasn't talking about PhD's outside of the medical science...I would have thought that was obvious. The point was to state that the first two years of medical school are not a doctorate level education, they are more of a Master's level. Adding the clinical years is what achieves a doctorate level education. Biomedical PhD candidates take far more advanced basic sciences courses than "Biochemistry" or "Medical Pharmacology." They take courses like "Enzyme Kinetics" or "Advanced Cardiovascular Pharmacology" and that is what makes their coursework doctorate level.

Master's candidates take neither clinical classes or anything beyond the survey classes that we take as MS-1 or 2. Ergo...not a doctorate level.

Anyway, this thread reminds me of the Friends episode where Rachel says something about someone being a doctor and Ross (a PhD) says "Well I'm a doctor too," and Rachel responds with something like "No Ross, I'm talking about a real doctor."

 

[Taurus]

Impressive - 78 posts and no reply from the troll who started this thread...

Yeah, me suspects a troll from one of the other boards infiltrating our sacred land...or just an idiot.

 

[mysophobe]

"Doctor" is not reserved for MD's. As the OP noted, "Doctor" is for anyone who completes the highest level of education in any given field. That's how the word originated and that's how it's always been used. In fact, "doctor" referred to PhD long before it was used to refer to physicians.

I'm aware of this. I never said Doctor is reserved for MDs. ONCE AGAIN, I was merely stating my experience with PhDs and MDs as far as titles go. I don't know how I can be more clear about that.

 

[MD'05]

Why is a person who graduates from medical school referred to as "Doctor"?
If the dictionary describes a doctor as a person who is awarded the highest degree in an academic discipline, then one is not really a doctor unless they have a Phd in medicine. Is it not true that an MD is the equivalent of a masters degree?

The same reason your mother tried to drown you in the toilet when you were born. Perhaps you could strive for a little more randomness.

 

[Firebird]

I'm aware of this. I never said Doctor is reserved for MDs. ONCE AGAIN, I was merely stating my experience with PhDs and MDs as far as titles go. I don't know how I can be more clear about that.

Well this is what you said: "Word. I think the proper thing that most of them adhere to is the placement of PhD after the name if they wish, but not the Dr. in front, which is reserved for physicians."

I think if that's not what you meant, you could have been far clearer about it.

 

[MDgirl76]

I couldn't agree more.. MD is just another job.. and if you check out surveys.. many of them are very unhappy.. now seeing that, of course there will be people turned off by the profession.. not everyone wants to be a doctor..

MD is nothing to feel all extra high and mighty about.. I'm sure there are Ph Ds and all other kinds of job holders who would RATHER not be MDs.. maybe not worth the pain vs gain.. so what? to each his own..

oh and aren't we just so special........ MDs!!!!!!! is there any thing better?!?!?!

get over yourself.

jesus christ....

 

[mysophobe]

Well this is what you said: "Word. I think the proper thing that most of them adhere to is the placement of PhD after the name if they wish, but not the Dr. in front, which is reserved for physicians."

I think if that's not what you meant, you could have been far clearer about it.

I thought it was pretty clear that I meant putting the "Dr." in front of the name was reserved for physicians, not actually calling themselves doctor. We were talking about placement of titles, were we not?

 

[OSUdoc08]

I thought it was pretty clear that I meant putting the "Dr." in front of the name was reserved for physicians, not actually calling themselves doctor. We were talking about placement of titles, were we not?

Are you saying that dentists shouldn't put Dr. in front of their name?

What about the professors at school, whom you actually refer to as "Dr. so and so."

A doctorate is a 3-4 year degree after undergrad. It doesn't matter what the degree is in.

 

[mysophobe]

Uh, wow. Did you even read what I just wrote? I said putting Dr. in front of their name is something I don't usually see them do--referring to the PhDs I have been exposed to. NOT dentists or optometrists or whatnot. PhDs. PhDs and no one else. And I am NOT saying that they aren't called "doctor so and so". I don't know how many times I have to repeat that. Christ.

All I am saying is that the people I know say they don't put Dr. in front of their names so that they are not mistaken for MD/DOs. THAT'S ALL.

 

[mysophobe]

And btw, a PhD is not a strict 4-year degree. Some people take much longer, some do it in 3.

 

[OSUdoc08]

And btw, a PhD is not a strict 4-year degree. Some people take much longer, some do it in 3.

You can't restrict that comment to a PhD. Some people take 5 or 6 years to get an MD or DO degree.

Some people take 3-8 years to get a bachelor's degree.

 

[mysophobe]

Thanks for needlessly--and erroneously--pointing out my restriction of that fact to PhDs. That was totally necessary.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Thanks for needlessly--and erroneously--pointing out my restriction of that fact to PhDs. That was totally necessary.

Riiiiiiiight.

 

[mysophobe]