Are you in radiology because of the money?

[pointystar]

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[cowme]

It's higher paying than average, but it isn't one of the top paying specialties anymore.

I genuinely enjoy the field. It's nice being able to see exactly what is wrong with a patient, rather than the guessing game you experience in other fields. And then repeating that 100 times a day.

And I genuinely despise clinical medicine.

 

[tco]

This has all the feels of a troll post.

 

[shark2000]

Do not feed the troll.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

You need to think more about who to take to your HS prom and less about medical specialties.

 

[rule out normal]

You need to think more about who to take to your HS prom and less about medical specialties.

Anyone going into radiology, or medicine in general, would be foolish to do it for the money. You can make an equivalent per-hour amount doing non-medical work, and not have to go through ten years of post-college training to do so.

With the new health care law, the inevitable tax hikes for those "filthy rich" that make $200k per year, and health care administrators stealing power, money, and influence from physicians, I don't see why any person seeking to accumulate significant amounts of personal wealth would even think about medicine.

 

[tco]

Anyone going into radiology, or medicine in general, would be foolish to do it for the money. You can make an equivalent per-hour amount doing non-medical work, and not have to go through ten years of post-college training to do so.

With the new health care law, the inevitable tax hikes for those "filthy rich" that make $200k per year, and health care administrators stealing power, money, and influence from physicians, I don't see why any person seeking to accumulate significant amounts of personal wealth would even think about medicine.

As far as making a living, physicians live VERY comfortably and have good job security. To not include financial aspects in making a career decision is equally as foolish as someone who expects to live like a mutual fund manager as a cardiologist, radiologist, dermatologist, etc.

 

[DermViser]

I'm a sophomore right now with one AP class, which is World History 2. I know I'm an idiot for not taking a medical-related class, but at that time I wasn't sure what about my future. So I just winged it and took history. I am a lazy student, and require at least like 30 minutes of break for every hour of studying/homework. I don't study in my free time, instead just cram an hour or two the night before the test. I'm okay at test-taking, receiving around a 90 average on my tests (and my teacher gives some hard-ass questions). I plan on taking 5 AP classes next year to get my **** together for college, med school etc etc. I'm kinda set on taking AP English Lang because my English is ass. Maybe AP Bio, but I heard that was at least 2 hours of homework at night. Suggestions? (I specifically want to go to Radiology, but I sense that I still have a long way to go).

Sadly, he's not trolling.

 

[cbtk18]

Hahahahaha. Wow

 

[g8orlife]

Sadly, he's not trolling.

Good detective work!

 

[Silent Cool]

As far as making a living, physicians live VERY comfortably and have good job security. To not include financial aspects in making a career decision is equally as foolish as someone who expects to live like a mutual fund manager as a cardiologist, radiologist, dermatologist, etc.

Yup. People act like making 400K per year is somehow easy in other fields. Give me a break. And like you said--job security. Medicine is a great career with all kinds of rewards--intellectual and financial. It would be foolish to ignore it. Most of us don't have Wall Street connections, etc.., so medicine is a pretty damn good long-term choice.

 

[rule out normal]

Yup. People act like making 400K per year is somehow easy in other fields. Give me a break. And like you said--job security. Medicine is a great career with all kinds of rewards--intellectual and financial. It would be foolish to ignore it. Most of us don't have Wall Street connections, etc.., so medicine is a pretty damn good long-term choice.

No physician will be making $400k for very much longer. I think most will be making $100-$150k per year. As long as you're okay with that, medicine is for you.

 

[colbgw02]

Personally, I went into radiology for:

1) The recognition. Everyone knows who I am and what I do, particularly the general public. Whenever I make a diagnosis, providers are quick to give me credit.

2) The lifestyle. Providers rarely orders studies that aren't indicated, so I really feel like I'm making a difference. Also, everyone is really understanding about equipment utilization. When the ED orders an L-spine MRI at 2AM for a 10+ year history of uncomplicated back pain, I just explain that this can wait and they're totally fine with it.

 

[Mad Jack]

No physician will be making $400k for very much longer. I think most will be making $100-$150k per year. As long as you're okay with that, medicine is for you.

If you're claiming that U.S. physicians will be making less than their counterparts in Canada and the UK in the near future, please, provide some proof.

 

[rule out normal]

If you're claiming that U.S. physicians will be making less than their counterparts in Canada and the UK in the near future, please, provide some proof.

It's inevitable, really. Health care administrators, as well as insurance companies and public sentiment, all act as major sources of downward pressure on physician income. Combine that with the notion that individuals who make $200k per year have been labeled as "rich" for IRS purposes, I'd advise those who seek wealth to avoid the medical profession.

 

[atomi]

As far as making a living, physicians live VERY comfortably and have good job security. To not include financial aspects in making a career decision is equally as foolish as someone who expects to live like a mutual fund manager as a cardiologist, radiologist, dermatologist, etc.

Does anybody else notice the theme on this website about posts related to money correlating to educational status?

Pre-med: I want to heal the sick and volunteer in Africa. I will flame to death the occasional premed who posts about wanting to be a doctor for money and tell him that you must sacrifice to be a doctor and that he can make more money by being a i-banker (even though I don't know that is).
M1-M2: Which specialty pays the most with the fewest hours, why physicians deserve to get paid so much, how do I get the highest step score, etc.
M3-M4: I have so many loans. I will make X salary in a few years, no other fields besides medicine can make as much money as I will
Resident: Don't choose your specialty based on money, going to med school is not worth it for the money.
Junior attending: medicine is great, i love what I do and get paid very well
Senior attending: medicine sucks i don't make money anymore, i hate my life, obama, people in general, etc. kids should be [insert something asinine] instead being doctors

 

[tco]

Not sure how my post fits into my educational level.

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[Iamnotme]

No physician will be making $400k for very much longer. I think most will be making $100-$150k per year. As long as you're okay with that, medicine is for you.

I never and I do mean never understand why people make posts like you did here. You have 0 (zero), "0" ability to predict the future and who will be making what. It is likely that physicians will now and forever make a handsome salary, for obvious reasons which have been gone over and over many times in this form and don't need repetition. if you want to think that physicians will be making 100-150k, that's your choice but to make silly suggestions like that really devalues any possible good thought/suggestion you may have here. Medicine like with everything is based on economics. Regardless of what clueless med students say, few if any people would continue in medicine for that kind of $, which is what a nurse with tenure can make. To deny that physicians make a handsome income is simply to lie. Do radiologists currently make what radiologists in the past made? No, probably not. Will the average physician be making millions? No. But for the most part, good physicians make a guaranteed 6 figure income even in the most uncompetitive of specialties, more in more competitive specialties, and up to ridiculous amounts in certain specialties. With a little business savvy, many doctors are making even more. So to suggest that physicians, or the average physician at least, does not make decent money is plain silly. Most physicians may not make what a hedge fund manager makes, sure, but then those people are few and far in between, and typically have connections and skills that most physicians don't have. So when people make those comparisons, it's just plain asinine. It's like saying that most of us could have become actors or something like that. When posting stuff, please make sure to think through what you will say. That is all.

 

[rule out normal]

I never and I do mean never understand why people make posts like you did here. You have 0 (zero), "0" ability to predict the future and who will be making what. It is likely that physicians will now and forever make a handsome salary, for obvious reasons which have been gone over and over many times in this form and don't need repetition. if you want to think that physicians will be making 100-150k, that's your choice but to make silly suggestions like that really devalues any possible good thought/suggestion you may have here. Medicine like with everything is based on economics. Regardless of what clueless med students say, few if any people would continue in medicine for that kind of $, which is what a nurse with tenure can make. To deny that physicians make a handsome income is simply to lie. Do radiologists currently make what radiologists in the past made? No, probably not. Will the average physician be making millions? No. But for the most part, good physicians make a guaranteed 6 figure income even in the most uncompetitive of specialties, more in more competitive specialties, and up to ridiculous amounts in certain specialties. With a little business savvy, many doctors are making even more. So to suggest that physicians, or the average physician at least, does not make decent money is plain silly. Most physicians may not make what a hedge fund manager makes, sure, but then those people are few and far in between, and typically have connections and skills that most physicians don't have. So when people make those comparisons, it's just plain asinine. It's like saying that most of us could have become actors or something like that. When posting stuff, please make sure to think through what you will say. That is all.

Downward trends. What makes you think physicians won't make less? Also, making $100-$150k is good money. And it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

 

[Iamnotme]

Downward trends. What makes you think physicians won't make less? Also, making $100-$150k is good money. And it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

Downward trends? I don't know what specialty you are in, but I don't think you are well informed. Despite the grumbling and complaining, physician salaries are UP not down. There are economics to every profession, including medicine. To you 100-150k may be good money which is fine, but to the avg physician, that's not "good money," and I doubt that the avg person going into medicine would be willing to work for that. Given the work, sacrifice and finances it takes to become a doctor, few if any people would be willing to go into medicine for that kind of $$$. As I said, that's what a seasoned nurse makes, not a physician. Nothing is out of the realm of possibilities, maybe they can also chain us to the hospital chairs and force us to work non-stop? Or maybe they will make robots who will replace us and who will get paid nothing too. But until that happens, let's speak with some rationale and good sense, shall we?

 

[rule out normal]

Downward trends? I don't know what specialty you are in, but I don't think you are well informed. Despite the grumbling and complaining, physician salaries are UP not down. There are economics to every profession, including medicine. To you 100-150k may be good money which is fine, but to the avg physician, that's not "good money," and I doubt that the avg person going into medicine would be willing to work for that. Given the work, sacrifice and finances it takes to become a doctor, few if any people would be willing to go into medicine for that kind of $$$. As I said, that's what a seasoned nurse makes, not a physician. Nothing is out of the realm of possibilities, maybe they can also chain us to the hospital chairs and force us to work non-stop? Or maybe they will make robots who will replace us and who will get paid nothing too. But until that happens, let's speak with some rationale and good sense, shall we?

Those things are not within the rational realm of possibilities. Also, please link the data demonstrating the upward trend in physician income if you don't mind.

 

[atomi]

Regardless of what clueless med students say, few if any people would continue in medicine for that kind of $, which is what a nurse with tenure can make.

I had to laugh at the suggestion that nurses with "tenure" earn $150,000 per year. Nursing is a working-class hourly wage profession that requires 2 years of post high school education, not a legitimate doctoral tenure-track career. Most nurses I have encountered live for their days off and are not pulling the 60-70 hours a week that would be needed to get anywhere near that kind of pay. Additionally they are just as petty as doctors when it comes to money, if not more so. If an RN was somehow making $150,000/year and anybody found out about it, you would think the world would have just ended with the gossip and emails that would probably blow the server up. Most RNs start out below $20/hr and top out below $40/hr in their career fluctuating between $30-80k/year. The most senior ones can probably bump this to 100 with some overtime (and if you're going to make comparisons using only the most senior employees, then you need to look at the most senior physicians as well with incomes in the 500k-1mil range).

Nurses have an important job, but don't think that you need to get paid more because they get paid so much, because they don't. Most nurses you encounter on the floors are probably making $40-50k/year busting their ass. It's a hard blue collar type job, and I sure wouldn't want it. If I were a nurse and heard doctors saying something like "even nurses can make $150k/yr," I'd get a little ticked because my job would probably suck and I wouldn't be getting paid anywhere near that. I got serious respect for them. Except for when they take their frustration they get from the attendings out on the residents.

 

[Rjnichols33]

I had to laugh at the suggestion that nurses with "tenure" earn $150,000 per year. Nursing is a working-class hourly wage profession that requires 2 years of post high school education, not a legitimate doctoral tenure-track career. Most nurses I have encountered live for their days off and are not pulling the 60-70 hours a week that would be needed to get anywhere near that kind of pay. Additionally they are just as petty as doctors when it comes to money, if not more so. If an RN was somehow making $150,000/year and anybody found out about it, you would think the world would have just ended with the gossip and emails that would probably blow the server up. Most RNs start out below $20/hr and top out below $40/hr in their career fluctuating between $30-80k/year. The most senior ones can probably bump this to 100 with some overtime (and if you're going to make comparisons using only the most senior employees, then you need to look at the most senior physicians as well with incomes in the 500k-1mil range).

Nurses have an important job, but don't think that you need to get paid more because they get paid so much, because they don't. Most nurses you encounter on the floors are probably making $40-50k/year busting their ass. It's a hard blue collar type job, and I sure wouldn't want it. If I were a nurse and heard doctors saying something like "even nurses can make $150k/yr," I'd get a little ticked because my job would probably suck and I wouldn't be getting paid anywhere near that. I got serious respect for them. Except for when they take their frustration they get from the attendings out on the residents.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

My mom made >$120 as an RN last year in Cali.. she works hard but has a good amt of time off too

Isn't RN compensation in Cali notoriously high? Not sure you could get those numbers too easily in other parts of the country.

 

[atomi]

Isn't RN compensation in Cali notoriously high? Not sure you could get those numbers too easily in other parts of the country.

His mom is probably in her 60s with a 40 year career behind her in one of the highest COL areas in the country. Definitely not the norm. This is like pointing at long island cops who make 200k/year and saying traffic cops everywhere make that.

 

[shark2000]

I had to laugh at the suggestion that nurses with "tenure" earn $150,000 per year. Nursing is a working-class hourly wage profession that requires 2 years of post high school education, not a legitimate doctoral tenure-track career. Most nurses I have encountered live for their days off and are not pulling the 60-70 hours a week that would be needed to get anywhere near that kind of pay. Additionally they are just as petty as doctors when it comes to money, if not more so. If an RN was somehow making $150,000/year and anybody found out about it, you would think the world would have just ended with the gossip and emails that would probably blow the server up. Most RNs start out below $20/hr and top out below $40/hr in their career fluctuating between $30-80k/year. The most senior ones can probably bump this to 100 with some overtime (and if you're going to make comparisons using only the most senior employees, then you need to look at the most senior physicians as well with incomes in the 500k-1mil range).

Nurses have an important job, but don't think that you need to get paid more because they get paid so much, because they don't. Most nurses you encounter on the floors are probably making $40-50k/year busting their ass. It's a hard blue collar type job, and I sure wouldn't want it. If I were a nurse and heard doctors saying something like "even nurses can make $150k/yr," I'd get a little ticked because my job would probably suck and I wouldn't be getting paid anywhere near that. I got serious respect for them. Except for when they take their frustration they get from the attendings out on the residents.

Most spine surgeons may make in the range of 500-1 mil. But most senior physicians of other fields don't make in that range. Show me a physician that makes over 500K and I show you 5 pediatrician or family physician who make 140-180K. Most physicians make in the range of 200-300K. When I say most physicians, I don't mean certain fields like surgical sub-specialties or the chairman of some big university.

Your numbers for nurse's salary is low. Most floor nurses make in the range of 70-80K and most ICU nurses make in the range of 120-130K. PAs make in the range of 100-120K. Ultrasound techs make in the range of 70-80K and MRI and IR/cath lab techs make in the range of 80-120K.

From purely financial aspect, in general healthcare and esp medicine is a good gig. Job security and good income. This is true esp for an average to good student. Medicine has some loopholes that you have to jump through. No special talent and no special skills needed. Honestly, you need an average IQ to go through medical school and residency. On the other hand if you have a special talent or skill, some other fields, though are more risky, give you more opportunities financially.

A Medescape survey about 1-2 years ago showed that only less than 50% of physicians would choose medicine again if they go back. For a field that is in top 5 percentile of income and has one of the most stable jobs, it is like a disaster. If you exclude all the high egos that exist in medicine (I was born to be a doctor. I can not do anything other than being a surgeon. ..), it means that MOST normal physicians are not happy with their choice. You may argue that doctors in general are over-achiever-type A-personalities that never ever become satisfied and you may be right. However, these number are not promising. No surprise that whenever I go to the physician's lounge people are constantly complaining.

 

[badasshairday]

His mom is probably in her 60s with a 40 year career behind her in one of the highest COL areas in the country. Definitely not the norm. This is like pointing at long island cops who make 200k/year and saying traffic cops everywhere make that.

Actually starting pay at my wife's community hospital for the ER nurses is 43$ an hour. They get double for holidays and 1.5x for overtime. So 100k for young nurses in CA is common. In fact she knows a mid career nurse at her place who makes 200k. He works a lot, but so do a lot of doctors.

 

[tco]

My mom made >$120 as an RN last year in Cali.. she works hard but has a good amt of time off too

Yeah, my aunt STARTED at 75k in Ohio.

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[atomi]

Yeah, my aunt STARTED at 75k in Ohio.

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I just checked so listings at the nearest major medical center to make sure I wasn't off my rocker. They are advertising most RN positions with a pay range between $23-37/hr. There was a nursing manager position listed at $74k/year. This is pretty good money for a job that doesn't require a college education especially compared to engineers and computer scientists who make around the same amount. If you're saying that your aunt started at $42/hr (what would be needed to make $75k in a 50 weeks at 36 hr/week) right as her first RN job in Ohio, then I simply don't believe that. Even with overtime, her wage would have been mid-30s. California may as well be a different country apparently. Where I live ED docs make about 350-400k/year and ED nurses make about $30/hr, and it's not the boonies. I'm not sure what's being argued at this point. Are you trying to discredit me by proving nurses actually are rich with a few anecdotes and therefore be able to continue pushing the "doctors should get paid more because nurses already get paid a ton" line of reasoning? I mean, the data's out there. Go to google and look up RN pay ranges. In most places you'll find $20-40/hr depending on experience.

Most spine surgeons may make in the range of 500-1 mil. But most senior physicians of other fields don't make in that range.

Obviously there is a huge difference between making 500k/yr and 1000k/yr. That's kinda my fault. But if you've been in your career for 20-30 years and are still pulling it what others guys are starting at, you're either in academics and your academic career never took off, you've scaled back your hours/practice, or you either chose to take a salaried position or are in a field where ownership is exceedingly difficult. If you look at the MGMA salary surveys, you will see the 75th percentiles for non-primary care fields pushing 500k and 90th percentiles 500k-1mil. I'd be willing to be most of the people are pretty senior.

 

[maxxor]

This is pretty good money for a job that doesn't require a college education especially compared to engineers and computer scientists who make around the same amount.

Where do you live that nursing doesn't require a college education? I thought the era of diploma nurses was long gone. In every city I've lived in, nursing jobs require a BSN if you want to get hired these days. (And I thought I grew up in an ass-backwards state...)

 

[tco]

I just checked so listings at the nearest major medical center to make sure I wasn't off my rocker. They are advertising most RN positions with a pay range between $23-37/hr. There was a nursing manager position listed at $74k/year. This is pretty good money for a job that doesn't require a college education especially compared to engineers and computer scientists who make around the same amount. If you're saying that your aunt started at $42/hr (what would be needed to make $75k in a 50 weeks at 36 hr/week) right as her first RN job in Ohio, then I simply don't believe that. Even with overtime, her wage would have been mid-30s. California may as well be a different country apparently. Where I live ED docs make about 350-400k/year and ED nurses make about $30/hr, and it's not the boonies. I'm not sure what's being argued at this point. Are you trying to discredit me by proving nurses actually are rich with a few anecdotes and therefore be able to continue pushing the "doctors should get paid more because nurses already get paid a ton" line of reasoning? I mean, the data's out there. Go to google and look up RN pay ranges. In most places you'll find $20-40/hr depending on experience.


Obviously there is a huge difference between making 500k/yr and 1000k/yr. That's kinda my fault. But if you've been in your career for 20-30 years and are still pulling it what others guys are starting at, you're either in academics and your academic career never took off, you've scaled back your hours/practice, or you either chose to take a salaried position or are in a field where ownership is exceedingly difficult. If you look at the MGMA salary surveys, you will see the 75th percentiles for non-primary care fields pushing 500k and 90th percentiles 500k-1mil. I'd be willing to be most of the people are pretty senior.

Quite frankly, I don't care what you believe. It was in Canton (corrected from Akron) . She paid off two 30k cars in two years.

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[shark2000]

Obviously there is a huge difference between making 500k/yr and 1000k/yr. That's kinda my fault. But if you've been in your career for 20-30 years and are still pulling it what others guys are starting at, you're either in academics and your academic career never took off, you've scaled back your hours/practice, or you either chose to take a salaried position or are in a field where ownership is exceedingly difficult. If you look at the MGMA salary surveys, you will see the 75th percentiles for non-primary care fields pushing 500k and 90th percentiles 500k-1mil. I'd be willing to be most of the people are pretty senior.

MGMA salary survey is very inflated, no matter whom you talk to. MGMA is totally wrong. Probably Medescape salaries are more realistic. If you think you will make 500K+ salaries in a large or medium size city, go and find another profession or prepare yourself for much less pay than what you expect now.

I really don't know what do you mean by ownership. Ownership is extremely hard these days, unless you are in the middle of nowhere. Even if you are not hospital employee, all the OR, angio suit, CT and MR scanner and ... is owned by the hospital. In my area, even physicians who have owned a practice for 15 years, are now selling their practices left and right to the hospital and most of them are salaried. A recent survey showed that 75% of physicians are hospital employees.

Bottom line: Medicine is a good gig and you can have a decent life. But also you have to have reasonable expectations.

 

[MedicineMike]

You guys are missing something here....just marry/date a girl with a good job. They are out there

 

[deleted500612]

Anyone going into radiology, or medicine in general, would be foolish to do it for the money. You can make an equivalent per-hour amount doing non-medical work, and not have to go through ten years of post-college training to do so.

With the new health care law, the inevitable tax hikes for those "filthy rich" that make $200k per year, and health care administrators stealing power, money, and influence from physicians, I don't see why any person seeking to accumulate significant amounts of personal wealth would even think about medicine.

Hmmm, name one profession where you can make *guaranteed* $200-250k or more per year right out of school. I can't think of a single one except medicine. I think it's the stability and the guaranteed income that is attractive to a lot of people. Sure you can potentially make just as much or more with an MBA, as a lawyer, investment banking etc, but only the BEST and luckiest people who are at the right place at the right time are going to be making that kind of bank. In medicine even the guy who graduates at the bottom of his class is making 200k.

 

[Puff-of-Snow Sign]

Except by school, you mean residency with an extra $200K in debt while your friends have a 7+ year head-start on wealth accumulation. Oh...and what's that about "guaranteed"? Have you seen any health policy news lately? There's not much of a guarantee of that kind of money going forward.

 

[circulus vitios]

Except by school, you mean residency with an extra $200K in debt while your friends have a 7+ year head-start on wealth accumulation. Oh...and what's that about "guaranteed"? Have you seen any health policy news lately? There's not much of a guarantee of that kind of money going forward.

Do a lifetime earnings analysis for radiology vs any other field of work. Use realistic assumptions: no investing banking, hedge fund management, private equity, venture capital, big law, etc. jobs; no Mark Zuckerbergesque business success; no "well, I worked hard enough to get into med school and match rads, so obviously I could have made F500 CEO/small law firm partner/VP of engineering/top salesman/etc. by 35."

edit: I'm not defending/advocating for decreased compensation. I'm going to fight like hell for what I think I deserve -- it's just that I recognize I have a pretty good lot for someone with public school pedigree and slightly above average intelligence.

 

[colbgw02]

It seems there's a fine line between recognizing that no one "deserves" a certain salary and rolling over because you have it better than 99%+ of people on the planet. My impression is that, for many people, it takes a small degree of moral dissociation to say, "I realize that I'm nothing special and don't deserve any predetermined amount of money, but I'm going to fight like hell to make sure I get every dime I can." Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that attitude, provided that there's nothing illegal or immoral about it, but I don't see it mirrored in many of my colleagues. Most people who want to believe they're a special snowflake will find ways to validate what they can get. Conversely, if you're a card-carrying member of Project Mayhem, then it's difficult to justify defense of your salary, so you run the risk of having it diminish.

 

[maxxor]

I agree with colbgw02, maybe it's because medical training so isolates us from other lines of work or other professions? I've heard so many doctors and medical students devalue the skills of a physician as "oh anyone can learn to read imaging / anyone can learn to treat hypertension", then simultaneously claim NPs and PAs aren't trained enough to do primary care? What is it guys? Do we provide valuable skills that others can't match, or are we actually not that valuable and our salaries should decrease to reflect that?

Because that's what the administrators/mbas/partners hear every time someone in medicine marginalizes our skills and abilities or says some stupid crap like "I don't need to make a lot of money; I just want a comfortable life": not even the doctors respect their own value. Why pay them so much?

I think everyone parrots the "you would be foolish to do medicine for the money", not realizing how hard the theoretical alternate career paths are to even get in to. If you don't go to a top 10 undergrad, good luck getting a nice ibanking position. It's probably as hard as getting into med school. Provided you have the grades, mcat, and ECs, you can come from ho hum state college and get into an MD school, do an accredited residency, and make money that can pull you into the upper middle class.

 

[Puff-of-Snow Sign]

Do a lifetime earnings analysis for radiology vs any other field of work. Use realistic assumptions: no investing banking, hedge fund management, private equity, venture capital, big law, etc. jobs; no Mark Zuckerbergesque business success; no "well, I worked hard enough to get into med school and match rads, so obviously I could have made F500 CEO/small law firm partner/VP of engineering/top salesman/etc. by 35."

edit: I'm not defending/advocating for decreased compensation. I'm going to fight like hell for what I think I deserve -- it's just that I recognize I have a pretty good lot for someone with public school pedigree and slightly above average intelligence.

Fair enough. However, my point was more that we all too often take for granted the sacrifice we make (and often ask our significant others to make) to get to the relatively secure job with the solid paycheck. I believe that it's that attitude and the assumption that all doctors are rolling in it (which just doesn't seem that true for primary care) that give pre-meds and the general public the impression that medicine is a great way to get rich. It may also give policy makers additional ammunition to cut reimbursement, increase the cost of tuition, increase the interest rates for graduate loans, etc.

 

[rule out normal]

Fair enough. However, my point was more that we all too often take for granted the sacrifice we make (and often ask our significant others to make) to get to the relatively secure job with the solid paycheck. I believe that it's that attitude and the assumption that all doctors are rolling in it (which just doesn't seem that true for primary care) that give pre-meds and the general public the impression that medicine is a great way to get rich. It may also give policy makers additional ammunition to cut reimbursement, increase the cost of tuition, increase the interest rates for graduate loans, etc.

The myth of the rich doctor will hurt the profession much more than we'd like to believe.

 

[shark2000]

Fair enough. However, my point was more that we all too often take for granted the sacrifice we make (and often ask our significant others to make) to get to the relatively secure job with the solid paycheck. I believe that it's that attitude and the assumption that all doctors are rolling in it (which just doesn't seem that true for primary care) that give pre-meds and the general public the impression that medicine is a great way to get rich. It may also give policy makers additional ammunition to cut reimbursement, increase the cost of tuition, increase the interest rates for graduate loans, etc.

Totally agreed. As I posted above, medicine is a secure way to make a decent living. However, you have to also take into account the price that you have paid for it. The fact that Medescape survey about 1-2 years ago showed that only less than 50% of physicians would choose medicine again if they go back, means a lot.

Unfortunately the perception of general public esp college students is very wrong about what doctors and highly influenced by media like Gray's anatomy or ... An average person thinks that we go to work at 10 AM and come home at 4 PM and go into the hospital in midnight once in a while and make a million. More importantly, they think we have an easy job. When people want to make an example they talk about the highest paid sports medicine surgeon or Hollywood's plastic surgeon who make a million. Nobody talks about a pediatrician who makes 140K with 200K+ loan and 10 years of post-graduate training.

Anyway, medicine is going in a very wrong way. Most people won't realize it before late residency or early attending. Again, I am not talking about money. You may make a lot of money, but definitely you won't have the time to spend that money. More importantly, since most of your time in 20s and early 30s will be spent studying or working, you won't learn how to enjoy your money.

 

[anbuitachi]

thats why they need the high cost of medical school to trap students in so they dont leave... the dropout rate from medical school would be way higher if tuition was cheaper. told my resident (hes a IMG), asked me 'why dont you drop out'. then i told him i have almost 200k in loans.. and he was shocked.

 

[IMDoc607]

No physician will be making $400k for very much longer. I think most will be making $100-$150k per year. As long as you're okay with that, medicine is for you.

If this is the case, I'm jump of out of medicine. My starting offers for interventional cardiology or invasive cardiology have ranged from 250 to 500K....they're going to cut it by 400K...no way. You're being extreme. There's no way you'll get me going in at 12am for a stemi for 125K

 

[bronx43]

If this is the case, I'm jump of out of medicine. My starting offers for interventional cardiology or invasive cardiology have ranged from 250 to 500K....they're going to cut it by 400K...no way. You're being extreme. There's no way you'll get me going in at 12am for a stemi for 125K

What else would you do? The vast majority of people in medicine have no other skill that could procure them a stable six figure job. Leaving medicine is largely an empty threat at best.

 

[rule out normal]

What else would you do? The vast majority of people in medicine have no other skill that could procure them a stable six figure job. Leaving medicine is largely an empty threat at best.

And that's why doctors are so easy to push around. We have to eat a **** sandwich because we have no other food. Lawmakers and health care administrators are obviously aware of this and have been taking advantage, and will continue to do so until doctors decide to grow a pair.

 

[meister]

What money?

 

[IMDoc607]

If this is the case, I'm jump of out of medicine. My starting offers have ranged from 250 to 500K....they're going to cut it by 400K...no way. You're being extreme.

What else would you do? The vast majority of people in medicine have no other skill that could procure them a stable six figure job. Leaving medicine is largely an empty threat at best.

Teach in a medical school and get an MBA. Apply broadly to pharm companies, hospital administration jobs, and medical business. I'm decent in the way things work in the business world. It's not an empty threat....it's real.

 

[IMDoc607]

What else would you do? The vast majority of people in medicine have no other skill that could procure them a stable six figure job. Leaving medicine is largely an empty threat at best.

If you stayed in medicine for that pay, I would consider you a *****. Right now alone it's teetering on decent pay for what an interventionalist does.

 

[Kaputt]

Teach in a medical school and get an MBA. Apply broadly to pharm companies, hospital administration jobs, and medical business. I'm decent in the way things work in the business world. It's not an empty threat....it's real.

Sure ya would. If it's such an easy path, go for it.

Most doctors vastly over-estimate their own potential for success. While doctors may have to each a $hit sandwich, at least we have a sandwich and will keep getting sandwiches. Same can't be said for all those people trying to make it in business. The system is rigged to get us jobs...which can't be said for any other field.

 

[bronx43]

Teach in a medical school and get an MBA. Apply broadly to pharm companies, hospital administration jobs, and medical business. I'm decent in the way things work in the business world. It's not an empty threat....it's real.

I think all those jobs/businesses are far less accessible to you than you might think, especially in a situation where reimbursements were to drastically decrease. You would see a flood of practitioners vying for these positions who are in far better position than you (assuming you are just a clinician). I don't know why MDs think that pharm companies have perpetual hard-ons for them... they have hard-ons for big wigs researchers with wide industry knowledge, connections, and applicable expertise. Unless you are some renowned department chief from an academic center, having any respectable ties to big pharma is pretty much a pipe dream. As far as hospital administration jobs, what have you done so far in administration? You think you can just call up a hospital and say you want to be their CMO? You have to work your way up very very slowly, and entry point for a physician into administration is through clinical practice as you slowly take on adminsitrative roles. Getting to C level would probably take you decades if even possible. I don't know what medical businesses are... but if you mean entrepreneurship, good luck on that.

Let's put all that aside and take an analytical approach at this. In what socio-economic and political landscape would such drastic cuts to the health care industry occur? It would occur in the setting of monumental paradigm shift in this country from a financial standpoint. Long story short, the available pool of money for ALL components of health care will be drastically decreased, and everyone is looking to get theirs. This effectively makes it so no one in health care will be able to maintain their current cut of the pie. Therefore, none of the aforementioned options will likely be more attractive than practicing. Even if they were, it's simply a game of musical chairs. Physicians, collectively, cannot move into those other positions enough to actually cause any disruptions to supply of providers. So, ultimately, the threat of "leaving medicine" for physicians in general is an empty one.