Applying today, don't have any mentors, is my list acceptable?

[psychapp121]

Hey everyone, I don't really have any knowledgeable people around me to ask since my letter writers have been community psych docs and my medical school doesn't really have any advisors for psychiatry. Can you please tell me if the list of places im applying to is appropriate or if you guys have any criticisms about the places. I don't really know much about these places I just applied because they are in the location me and my wife want to end up in. Thank you so much for your time.

USMD, 4th year, 245 step 1, step 2ck score not out yet, AOA, took CS no score yet, 2 psych 1 IM letter theyre pretty good, couple of papers and presentations in surgery, want to end up in midwest in a program that values work life balance since i will have young kids and want to spend time with them

Places Im applying:

albert einstein philly
allegheny health network pittsburgh
UH cleveland
CC cleveland
metrohealth cleveland
central michigan university
community health network indiannopolis
detroit medical center
drexel university
geisenger pennyslvania
henry ford
indiana university 2 programs
lake erie
michigan state university
ohio state
penn state
st lukes hospital
temple university
neomed university akron
university of cincinnati
university of michigan
university of penn
university of toledo
UPMC
western michigan
wright state

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[SourceOfDenial]

I'd add Louisville if you're looking at IU and Cinci. I'm biased, but I think it's a better place to live than either of those places, it's cheap and well suited for young families. Otherwise your list looks good, and with those scores I'd expect you to be looking at UM, Pitt, Penn.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Should be fine. With your stats I'll be surprised if you don't get at least 15 interview offers out of that list.

 

[Stagg737]

Depending on how far west you consider "midwest", Oklahoma in OKC seemed like it would be a good fit. Seemed to be a really supportive faculty and Dr. Dukes was outstanding in terms of supporting residents imo. Also going to give a shameless plug for CHN. It was my first interview and I went in with low expectations (newer, community program), honestly blew me away and might have been my top rank if it weren't for location (wife was very specific about where she wanted to end up). It ended up being my #2.

Granted, these impressions are just from interview days and a few interactions I've had with other people about the programs, but I would have been thrilled to end up at either of those programs.

 

[Crayola227]

Tulsa is better for a city to live in, but OKC was a lot better than I expected. Pretty decent.

When I went, nice campus. Easy commute. Cheap nice places to live. Decent food/music scene if a bit limited. Better restaurants and bars than I expected.

I totally would have just chillaxed there for 4 years. People are a bit conservative, but more hip than you might expect.

Beware tornadoes. Like, seriously. Definitely live where there is a hole - basement, install a storm shelter (cheaper than you would think, affordable on a resident's salary)

 

[clausewitz2]

Your stats are reasonable for UPMC but you should be aware for several rotations your partner will essentially be a single parent. Things get much better after PGY-2 but the first two years are rough (not all the time, but a lot of the time).

 

[psychapp121]

I want to update that to date I’ve only gotten 5 interviews from this list, these are brown, Indiana, and 3 of the random community programs that are new and unranked, is this expected or did I screw something up? Why would I get brown and not all these other lower ranked places? I just want to be a psychiatrist I don’t care about ranking I just want enough interviews to match at a normal mid-low tier program that’s all thanks for the insights

 

[psychattending]

My prediction would be that that programs are asking themselves "what is the likelihood that this person really wants to come here." If they answer not really, they are going to not waste an interview on you but will go for a somebody else with worse stats. Programs asking such questions is the outcome of applicants applying to so many programs that there is no way that a program can interview them all and thus has to cut out people. People who get cut out are not just "weaker" people but also includes strong people who will likely get the first or second choice.

 

[psychapp121]

So wanted to give some updates, at this point I only have 8 interviews, 4 of them being from programs that are brand new community programs and far from me so I really wouldn't want to go there unless forced and then the others are like brown and Umich...so I guess I'm going to have to start emailing programs and start begging for interviews...

 

[Poit]

I'm in a similiar situation OP but with a step 1 in the 230s. I only have 6 iis with one being at a top program so I'm a bit confused also. Applied to 38 programs of varying competitiveness. Hope some more trickle in soon, but I'm at a loss for what I should have done differently, if anything.

 

[whopper]

This is not the first time I've heard of something like this, that is someone in a DO school without (or at levels that draw my ire) faculty to provide psychiatric direction/education or the school is even lacking in mental health providers at the school or in the immediate area.

While I find so many of my DO colleagues very good at what they do, this really is of concern and the DO programs out there really need to step up their game.

 

[hallowmann]

So wanted to give some updates, at this point I only have 8 interviews, 4 of them being from programs that are brand new community programs and far from me so I really wouldn't want to go there unless forced and then the others are like brown and Umich...so I guess I'm going to have to start emailing programs and start begging for interviews...

Yeah, its definitely worth doing. Maybe some programs are questioning your willingness to go because you don't have clear connections to the area. If you show specific interest, then most likely you'll get at least a few more interviews from your list.

This is not the first time I've heard of something like this, that is someone in a DO school without (or at levels that draw my ire) faculty to provide psychiatric direction/education or the school is even lacking in mental health providers at the school or in the immediate area.

While I find so many of my DO colleagues very good at what they do, this really is of concern and the DO programs out there really need to step up their game.

OP is a US MD student. While what you describe certainly does happen at some DO schools, it also seems to happen at some MD schools.

 

[psychedaboutmed]

This is not the first time I've heard of something like this, that is someone in a DO school without (or at levels that draw my ire) faculty to provide psychiatric direction/education or the school is even lacking in mental health providers at the school or in the immediate area.

While I find so many of my DO colleagues very good at what they do, this really is of concern and the DO programs out there really need to step up their game.

DO student here: I have pretty average national Step and Comlex scores and applied to mostly programs west of the Mississippi (30 total) (I don't have any interest in the coasts) and have had decent success (11 ii). I can say as a DO student, I have always been puzzled by comments other posters have made about speaking with their advisers about applying to programs. I know there aren't any psychiatrists on faculty at my school and none affiliated as far as I know. I am thankful for a community psychiatrist that I met on one of my rotations that has become a mentor as I apply, bc I would be in the dark otherwise. My school certainly hasn't been a help.

I feel pretty lucky compared to other posters with the number of interviews but I think that might be because there are less people willing to do residency in the midwest (I'm not sure why people don't like great schools, safe communities, and low cost of living).

 

[Merely]

This is not the first time I've heard of something like this, that is someone in a DO school without (or at levels that draw my ire) faculty to provide psychiatric direction/education or the school is even lacking in mental health providers at the school or in the immediate area.

While I find so many of my DO colleagues very good at what they do, this really is of concern and the DO programs out there really need to step up their game.

Thanks for your input although what could OP have really done different?

 

[ridethecliche]

I'm an east coaster and I've applied to programs all over the place. No interviews from any places out of the east coast. Might be time to start telling places that I'm not tied down... Both for location and the other thing!

Also, the OP has quite a few interviews. Remember that the number ranked to match is an average.

 

[whopper]

While what you describe certainly does happen at some DO schools, it also seems to happen at some MD schools.

I've never seen a situation where an MD school put students in a situation where they weren't in an infrastructure of organized grand-rounds or faculty that could provide guidance to medical students if they wanted to enter the field. It's required for MD school rotations at an institution with a residency program for this very type of reason. Of course any program including an MD program could have various deficiencies, but this is an organizational issue that allowing for rotations without being part of a residency will lead to this inevitable situation.

I'm very aware that this could degenerate into the stupid and idiot DO vs MD my sausage is bigger than yours debate.Does it have to devolve into that type of debate? No. Do you see me regularly bashing DOs? No. Have I seen MDs do stupid things? Yes..including getting into the "my sausage is bigger" discussion.

But I would be ignoring what I've seen to be in the elephant in the room and a recurring pattern. I've literally had several DO students ask me for help for this very reason then not want to admit this is a problem in their institution because of fear of it somehow sending an unintended message that DOs are worse than MDs.

If it's not a problem then don't bring it up. If it is a problem, bring it up. It is what it is.

Hey I'm not gay, not there's anything wrong with it. Of course it's okay to be gay, but there's nothing wrong with it. I swear.

No program, MD or DO, should have such a glaring deficiency in their institution. Feel free to point out any MD programs. It would only alert students to problems that should be fixed.

Of course any program, MD or DO, stepping up what they got for any field of health is good.

How does this affect the OP? Doesn't really unless the OP finds something of worth out of the comment. It does, however, alert pre-med students, who enter this forum, something of what may come in their future, and it is connected to the original topic. To enter any medical school where you're not exposed to faculty that can provide you guidance vs another medical school where that guidance can be given, well there you go. It is what it is, and I will likely still get DO students PM'ing me complaining about this problem in a highly noticeable pattern. I used to get this with guest DO students that rotated at the medical schools where I previously was faculty asking me for guidance telling me they had a lack of it. And for the record my cousin who is a DO experienced the same exact problem herself.

Did those DO students upset me? Of course not. If anything to see a student inspired to want to go into psychiatry and ask for every opportunity gave me faith in those students and hope for the future of our field. But did I notice a problematic pattern? Heck yeah.

 

[psychapp121]

To update, I’m still sitting at 8 interviews from that list above, I applied to 37 places and have 8 interviews...this is so ridiculous like I applied to a completely reasonable variety and amount of places to be sure I match and I’m not even getting interviews in psychiatry with a 245 and AOA...I feel like from that list I should have 20 invites at this point but people just don’t want to invite me like they hate me or something, I
Know for a fact that people from my school with worse stats are getting more interviews than me..I’m a nice guy but this is like a sick joke lol


Edit: I’ve also emailed 6 places where I’d be willing to go..places that are not competitive and all have ignored me...I guess I should consider like doing IM and becoming a cardiologist as a backup to psychiatry....

 

[ssjGGV]

To update, I’m still sitting at 8 interviews from that list above, I applied to 37 places and have 8 interviews...this is so ridiculous like I applied to a completely reasonable variety and amount of places to be sure I match and I’m not even getting interviews in psychiatry with a 245 and AOA...I feel like from that list I should have 20 invites at this point but people just don’t want to invite me like they hate me or something, I
Know for a fact that people from my school with worse stats are getting more interviews than me..I’m a nice guy but this is like a sick joke lol


Edit: I’ve also emailed 6 places where I’d be willing to go..places that are not competitive and all have ignored me...I guess I should consider like doing IM and becoming a cardiologist as a backup to psychiatry....

I'd be happy if I were sitting on 8 interviews at this time in the game!

 

[Poit]

Bro, with your application you will almost certainly match with 8 iis, as long as you don't come across as neurotic and entitled as you do in some of these posts (no offense). 8 is a decent number at this point and you will probably pick up a couple more.

 

[Merely]

I would consider asking a mentor to reach out to programs on your behalf. i know you say you dont have anyone but you should.

I don’t have anyone that I can really ask to do that tho like the people who wrote my LORs are community psychs that don’t know anything about this stuff

 

[LABrondo]

To update, I’m still sitting at 8 interviews from that list above, I applied to 37 places and have 8 interviews...this is so ridiculous like I applied to a completely reasonable variety and amount of places to be sure I match and I’m not even getting interviews in psychiatry with a 245 and AOA...I feel like from that list I should have 20 invites at this point but people just don’t want to invite me like they hate me or something, I
Know for a fact that people from my school with worse stats are getting more interviews than me..I’m a nice guy but this is like a sick joke lol


Edit: I’ve also emailed 6 places where I’d be willing to go..places that are not competitive and all have ignored me...I guess I should consider like doing IM and becoming a cardiologist as a backup to psychiatry....

I’ll take even 1 of them!!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[whopper]

Good luck. 8 interviews isn't bad and you could still get a few more. Can you identify any reason why some of your colleagues are getting more interview than you? Did they apply to more programs?

 

[psychapp121]

Good luck. 8 interviews isn't bad and you could still get a few more. Can you identify any reason why some of your colleagues are getting more interview than you? Did they apply to more programs?

Thanks for your reply. I have absolutely no clue. I know that they are not AOA but aside from that I don’t know much. Maybe they have more psych ECs? I don’t really have any because I discovered psych late in the game. Maybe because I don’t have my ck in? I mean the places I’m
Not getting if you look at my list are a mix of low tier programs and some mid tiers like Case and CCF. Really no clue what’s happening in this process as my colleagues have gotten places that I have applied to over me which is baffling.

 

[whopper]

Psych electives could open doors. Could be that. I also figure they might've just simply applied to many more programs.
While I was still in academia if someone applied into a psych program I was in and the personal statement didn't mention anything of an interest in psychiatry I'd pretty much just toss it out. Glaring errors also opened the possibility to us tossing out the application.

 

[DrGoon]

Thanks for your reply. I have absolutely no clue. I know that they are not AOA but aside from that I don’t know much. Maybe they have more psych ECs? I don’t really have any because I discovered psych late in the game. Maybe because I don’t have my ck in? I mean the places I’m
Not getting if you look at my list are a mix of low tier programs and some mid tiers like Case and CCF. Really no clue what’s happening in this process as my colleagues have gotten places that I have applied to over me which is baffling.

I just recently got CK in also and am thinking that may be playing a role in low interview invites. I've only got 8 as well. Not sure though.