Applying to MEd schools in UK

[ineedhelp85]

I was wondering if when applying to UK med schools you still need your mcat score and your AMCAS applicatin. I know most of you guys will get pissed but i have no idea of how the process of applying to UK med schools work so i am really lost.
First of all, can i get loans from US to use it in UK
Secondly, from what you've heard, is it a good idea to go there(lets say cambridge or uni of manchester) and come back to US(considering you went to a top school there)
IS schools there cheaper compared to US and how many years is it to graduate?

Thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I was wondering if when applying to UK med schools you still need your mcat score and your AMCAS applicatin. I know most of you guys will get pissed but i have no idea of how the process of applying to UK med schools work so i am really lost.
First of all, can i get loans from US to use it in UK
Secondly, from what you've heard, is it a good idea to go there(lets say cambridge or uni of manchester) and come back to US(considering you went to a top school there)
IS schools there cheaper compared to US and how many years is it to graduate?

Thanks.

AMCAS and MCAT mean nothing to British medical schools. You apply through a central agency called UCAS: http://www.ucas.com which allows you four choices for medical school. It's best to train in a medical school in the country you intend to practice indefinitely. You'll face many issues if you go against the grain (speaking from experience). British medical schools will charge you close to what a private U.S. medical school asks for in tuition, and most of the programs that accept internationals are five years long.

 

[rgerwin]

Med school in England is just as or more expensive than US, and is longer (5years). There are post-graduate programs which are 4 years, but those are often exclusively EU students. You will pay overseas tuition, and the dollar sucks.

 

[Kev (UK)]

Med school in England is just as or more expensive than US, and is longer (5years). There are post-graduate programs which are 4 years, but those are often exclusively EU students. You will pay overseas tuition, and the dollar sucks.

All schools are "top schools" as we do not have rankings here in the UK. All schools are GMC regulated so the standards are comparable. The way they teach the curriculum is different thats all.

If you are wanting to practice in the US I would recommend you go to school there. The UK medical degree is aimed at training people to work in the UK. Whilst it would not be impossible to do post-graduate training back in the US, it would be MUCH harder to obtain a place with a UK degree, so save yourself the future difficulties.

Finally it would undoubtedly be easier to get into a low-ranking US school than a UK school. We take VERY FEW USA students over here. I know no USA students in any year at my med school. We have some Canadians.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Finally it would undoubtedly be easier to get into a low-ranking US school than a UK school. We take VERY FEW USA students over here. I know no USA students in any year at my med school. We have some Canadians.

If you're from the U.S. or Canada, this is not true.

 

[Kev (UK)]

If you're from the U.S. or Canada, this is not true.

Well we will have to disagree then.

There are a miniscule number of USA students in British (thats real British, not squatter) medical schools. The chances of a successful application to a UK medical school from a USA student is slight at best. Most who do succeed are top flight students who could have gone to a good US school had they chosen to. UK schools take a maximum of 10% international students each year, the vast majority of these are from Europe and less developed countries.

It is wrong to pretend otherwise.

Canadians have a much better success rate when it comes to UK med school admission. maybe it's because they are in the Commonwealth? No idea why.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Well we will have to disagree then.

There are a miniscule number of USA students in British (thats real British, not squatter) medical schools. The chances of a successful application to a UK medical school from a USA student is slight at best. Most who do succeed are top flight students who could have gone to a good US school had they chosen to. UK schools take a maximum of 10% international students each year, the vast majority of these are from Europe and less developed countries.

It is wrong to pretend otherwise.

Canadians have a much better success rate when it comes to UK med school admission. maybe it's because they are in the Commonwealth? No idea why.

I respect your statement though I’m not going to go as far as you and say either system is easier. Your initial comment: “...it would undoubtedly be easier to get into a low-ranking US school than a UK school” is inaccurate and misleading. Really.

Most students from North America train in British schools only after unsuccessful admission cycles in their own country; as you've alluded to before: the added difficulties, greater expense, stigma in returning to North America as a foreign medical graduate (even greater in Canada too!) are just a few token examples why this is probably not their first choice. It makes no sense that this would be their first choice. I personally know several students who have been unsuccessful in the U.S. and later gained entry in the U.K. I think the Canadian/U.S. students that genuinely choose to train in the U.K. are definitely in the minority and many are found in Oxford and Cambridge which are without a doubt internationally renowned.

As for the larger Canadian sample in the U.K….you may be right; I was offered an interview at a top Canadian medical school two years ago (as a foreigner) which I probably did not deserve, and I really do believe that my British citizenship played a part in that so I believe that the converse situation is quite probable. Also, Canadian medical school applicants really do have to be outstanding and my feeling is that those that go overseas for their medical education were probably very close to gaining admission in their own country and thus their academic calibre is well-noted by British medical schools and they are attractive applicants.

Also keep in mind that British medical schools like Leicester make a lot of money from internationals (usually North Americans) with little vested interest; North Americans, for example, will usually not work there after graduation. It's entirely for profit.

 

[Kev (UK)]

Also keep in mind that British medical schools like Leicester make a lot of money from internationals (usually North Americans) with little vested interest; North Americans, for example, will usually not work there after graduation. It's entirely for profit.

Leicester accept 13 international students a year. I know, as I am a student there, and most are from outside NA (Europe, Asia and Africa). As I said, I have never met any US students at Leicester but there are several Canadians. It is certainly for profit but they still have many, many international applicants and can pick and choose who they wish to take the money from.

 

[ramekin]

English and Welsh medical schools have traditionally drawn their international student quota, which is restricted at 10%, from the Commonwealth countries that follow the British or European systems of specialized post-16 education. Applicants from these countries also tend to be more likely to practise within the NHS once qualified.

The issue of international student fees notwithstanding, English and Welsh medical schools do not like to accept applicants from North America due to the simple fact of non-equivalency between the two respective education systems; the extra effort in converting qualifications is simply not worth the bother, given the huge pool of applicants from the Commonwealth applying with the same entry qualifications as British students, from which they could otherwise draw. Also, many 'international' applicants have spent most of their post-16 education studying in English boarding schools, where fees are often the same as, or more than, medical school tuition fees.

Schools in Scotland are another matter entirely. They are more relaxed in their matriculation requirements and appear receptive to a wider range of qualifications, eg entrance with only lower-sixth qualifications. Americans also tend to be reasonably successful with applying to Scots schools, perhaps due to the similarities in the Scottish and American Liberal Arts-style education systems.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Americans also tend to be reasonably successful with applying to Scots schools, perhaps due to the similarities in the Scottish and American Liberal Arts-style education systems.

Interesting. I was educated in Scotland up to the age of 21 then everything in the U.S. thereafter and, in my opinion, the educational system in Scotland and in the U.S. are not similar at all; I'm not sure why you think the system in Scotland is "Liberal Arts-style". In fact, both systems could not be more different. While we take five Highers compared to your 3 A Levels, our sixth year can be spent doing the CSYS exams (which I did) and those go beyond A Levels. We go to university one year earlier in Scotland. Now Scotland has Highers as well as Advanced Highers (where you only take three of them). As far as I can tell, they are like A Levels and are taken over two years. So, it's actually very specialized.

The University of Edinburgh in Scotland has one of the oldest and finest medical schools in the U.K., yet they specifically state that if a North American is applying there after their undergraduate degree they want to see a 28 (9, 9, 10) on the MCAT. Two things struck me when I read this: 1. that score would not be competitive in the U.S. at most medical schools while there is, of course, a chance that an applicant might be accepted somewhere if they are otherwise outstanding. 2. Edinburgh (when I was a student there) always said that they will only consider internationals from countries where health care is deemed to be inadequate, but it now looks like they are quite open to North Americans and other internationals - not just EU members. Since they can make so much more money from North Americans, I honestly think that this is the driving force. I guess that's the downside to having institutions that are entirely governmentally-funded.

 

[f_w]

always said that they will only consider internationals from countries where health care is deemed to be inadequate,

Probably because they deem healthcare in the US to be inadequate (If you looked at US healthcare from the perspective of an average working stiff in a small town in the south, you could easily make that case.)

 

[ramekin]

Sorry, perhaps i should have been more clear; i meant to say that the Scottish higher education system was perhaps not as dissimilar to the United States' as is that of England and Wales, insofar as one may reasonably, at a Scottish institution, in the first and second years of study, take a varied course load before first committing oneself to a particular discipline in which to 'major' - obviously, however, this excludes the study of medicine, to which students must commit themselves fully from the first instance. I was not commenting on the quality of post-16 qualifications, the degree of specialization or the level of attainment reached at the end of secondary schooling in Scotland.

As for the MCAT (and GAMSAT), which only arrived in the UK with the introduction of GEP programs, i'm sure we can expect higher scores to become de rigeur (facto) once existing GEP courses become more established, new ones are introducted, and UK graduates become more familiar with its assessment criteria and methods.

On international students as a source of income - i don't doubt that many universities use international student fees to subsidize local students or departments (that receive insufficient Government funding subsequent to poor take-up by local students); the cause celebre being the LSE, half whose student body consists of internationals.

2. Edinburgh (when I was a student there) always said that they will only consider internationals from countries where health care is deemed to be inadequate, but it now looks like they are quite open to North Americans and other internationals

… and that remains the official party line for most UK medical schools. In reality international students, whether from countries with inadequate facilities for medical education or not, have always been welcome to study at UK medical schools, as have they always been levied extortionate fees for the ‘privilege’.

 

[shetland]

Hi
Does anyone know how to go about in applying to do an elective in England, if one is a Cdn med school student?
Thanks x