Apply as a US student/citizen...or as an EU student/citizen ???

[davesnow10]

Alright - here's my situation - maybe someone can advise me on the best way to go about things....

I'm a US citizen, 26 years old, but spent close to 20 years in the UK, thus am able (as I just found out with an amendment to a certain law where a UK-born mother is sufficient) to become a UK citizen, and thus an EU citizen, whilst holding on to my US citizenship. I currently reside and work in the US.

I completed my undergrad and postgrad in the UK, and complete my pre-med science courses and MCAT (obviously) in the US.

So, to those not bored yet and still looking (and hoping) for a question: Which approach would you take in applying to the 4 irish medical schools? Would you go in as a US applicant, or as an EU citizen? Statistically which provides a better chance for admission, if anyone knows? I am currently looking into the free schooling option - not sure if that applies to me or not......

Was just wandering. I really need to start the UK citizenship process now...but wasnt sure on the best way to use my options.

Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

cheers,
Dave.

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[spudbunny]

Definitely go for the EU citizen option if you have spent the last 3 out of 5 years in Europe - I am an American/Italian/Canadian citizen who has only lived in the US so the citizenship helps in that you can live and work in Europe but it does nothing to help you cost and admissions-wise if you don't have the 3 out of 5 years.

 

[13538]

So, to those not bored yet and still looking (and hoping) for a question: Which approach would you take in applying to the 4 irish medical schools? Would you go in as a US applicant, or as an EU citizen? Statistically which provides a better chance for admission, if anyone knows? I am currently looking into the free schooling option - not sure if that applies to me or not......

In relation to Ireland, the "free fees" option don't apply to you as you already have an undergraduate degree.

Your chances for admission to Irish medical schools are better if you apply as non-EU. The number of EU places for graduates (in Trinity anyways) is 2 per year and applications for these places run into the 100s.

 

[davesnow10]

thanks for that! I did think I had read that admission chances were better if applying as non-eu......

I wonder if once in as a non-eu, I can use my EU citizenship to live and work there if I want too, post-graduation? I imagine this would pose no problem...

Thanks again though, thats a great help,
Dave.

 

[lillaregn]

Chances of being admitted are much higher if you apply as a non-EU citizen. However, fees will be significantly higher. Currently, this is 33 000 euro at RCSI, slightly lower at the other schools.
Competetion for places is much higher among EU students, but fees are significantly lower. I do not know exact numbers, but the yearly fee is definetely only in four figures (assuming that you are not eligible for the Free Fees initiative)
Irish med schools admit non-EU students at a higher rate because they are allowed to charge higher fees

If you get a EU citizenship while you are enrolled at the school, you will still have to pay the full non-EU fees. However, you will then have the same rights in the EU job market as other EU citizens.

 

[PathOne]

That sound's REALLY weird. While I'm certainly no lawyer or expert on things Irish, I'm pretty sure that it's in conflict with EU regulations if Trinity, or any other EU school, divides students into Irish, EU and non-EU. Basically, as I understand it, any citizen from a EU member country must be handlede like a (Irish) citizen. And the post about the college wanting to get as many non-EU students as possible doesn't make much sense either. Reason why payment for non-EU's are higher is that the college doesn't receive the state funding it does for Irish and EU-citizens. I'd be highly surprised if it was easier for a non-citizen to get into a publicly funded college...

Also, post-degree, you (or your wife) must be citizen of a EU-country if you want to use the right to seek license anywhere in the European Union, Norway, Iceland or Switzerland.

 

[lillaregn]

Well, then you'll be really surprised to hear this.

The per capita reimbursement the school receives from the government is smaller than the difference between EU and non-EU fees. There is therefore an incentive to the school to admit non-EU citizens. It is a well-known phenomenon that Irish and British schools use full-paying foreign students to subsidize their own citizens. This has even been written about by The Economist.

I should however have pointed out that I am only familiar with how this works at RCSI, which is a private institution (but still receives government funding).

As for your interpretation of European regulations, I agree that this is how it should work in principle. However, it is a fact that there are very few non-Irish EU students at Irish schools. One can easily see how it could become a major problem for an English-speaking country if students from other EU countries "stole" all its medschool spots. This would work only one way, since Irish students are unlikely to know enough German/French to study there.

I do not know how they get around the regulations. Possibly, they have a dispensation. Or, they could put bureaucratic obstacles in the way of non-Irish applicants. For instance, they could have a conversion rate between foreign and irish grade scales that favors Irish applicants. As I said, this is speculation, and I don't know how they do it, all I know is that I see very few students from other EU countries in Ireland.

 

[13538]

Well, then you'll be really surprised to hear this.

The per capita reimbursement the school receives from the government is smaller than the difference between EU and non-EU fees. There is therefore an incentive to the school to admit non-EU citizens. It is a well-known phenomenon that Irish and British schools use full-paying foreign students to subsidize their own citizens. This has even been written about by The Economist.

It is indeed a well known fact that fees from non-EU med students are keeping the Irish medical schools afloat! As well as this, there is a government imposed quota for EU spots in Irish medical schools. These quotas have been in place since the late 70s and the government is very reluctant to increase EU spots (even though we desperately need them!) as it would require substantially more funding than at present.

As for your interpretation of European regulations, I agree that this is how it should work in principle. However, it is a fact that there are very few non-Irish EU students at Irish schools. One can easily see how it could become a major problem for an English-speaking country if students from other EU countries "stole" all its medschool spots. This would work only one way, since Irish students are unlikely to know enough German/French to study there.

I do not know how they get around the regulations. Possibly, they have a dispensation. Or, they could put bureaucratic obstacles in the way of non-Irish applicants. For instance, they could have a conversion rate between foreign and irish grade scales that favors Irish applicants. As I said, this is speculation, and I don't know how they do it, all I know is that I see very few students from other EU countries in Ireland.

The non-Irish EU students are usually from Northern Ireland or the UK. The medical schools can't discriminate against non-Irish EU students but they can specify which exams are suitable for entry and at present you need to have sat the Irish Leaving Cert or A-Levels to be in with a shot of admission.

 

[leorl]

Just for interest's sake...read somewhere that non-EU fees fund 73% of Irish medical education costs (!) . Trin, you weren't at the pav. missed a gorgeous day.

 

[PathOne]

Yeah, well, one really shouldn't be surprised, I guess... One can always agree in principle, and destroy in detail. Still interesting, tho'.