Anyone have questions about OMFS residency or the application process?

[capnamerica]

Is there a certain age beyond which PDs won't want to take you? I recall a post somewhere on these forums where the poster mentioned being told by a PD that he/she was too old to be considered.

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[CMistry]

Is there a certain age beyond which PDs won't want to take you? I recall a post somewhere on these forums where the poster mentioned being told by a PD that he/she was too old to be considered.

I honestly have no idea. I personally know several OMFS residents who will finish residency in their mid to late 30s but I assume you're asking about an older cohort.

 

[capnamerica]

I honestly have no idea. I personally know several OMFS residents who will finish residency in their mid to late 30s but I assume you're asking about an older cohort.

Yeah, >35 years old is what I had in mind.

 

[CMistry]

Yeah, >35 years old is what I had in mind.

Several of my coresidents will be 35+ (in a 6yr program), so I definitely don't think that is too old.

 

[Fisher123]

What ranking where you in your class? What NBME score did you get? I just want a general idea of the scores, gpa, rankings that are acceptable...

 

[NCbuckHuntr]

Hi there guys,

So for residency programs you are interested in but DO NOT offer externship opportunities, how do you "learn more about them so they learn more about you." How can I get them to know my face/my desire for OMS if I can not spend time working with them in an externship?

 

[CMistry]

What ranking where you in your class? What NBME score did you get? I just want a general idea of the scores, gpa, rankings that are acceptable...

I was 7/131 when I applied. I didn't take the NBME, I had a numerical NBDE score.

Hi there guys,

So for residency programs you are interested in but DO NOT offer externship opportunities, how do you "learn more about them so they learn more about you." How can I get them to know my face/my desire for OMS if I can not spend time working with them in an externship?

I would submit my application and then call the program secretary to let her know I'm interest (maybe a brief email to the PD). You're on a level playing field with all the other applicants to those programs, so it should be obvious that what's on paper will matter more...

 

[womboona]

In 6 year programs, when the resident is in the medical school portion, do they have any other responsibilities other than the medical school curriculum? Do the OMFS medical students have any OMFS responsibilities concurrently as well? Does the order of the medical school education vary among programs in terms of how they integrate it into learning actual OS?

 

[CMistry]

In 6 year programs, when the resident is in the medical school portion, do they have any other responsibilities other than the medical school curriculum? Do the OMFS medical students have any OMFS responsibilities concurrently as well?

Depends on the program. Most do not.

Does the order of the medical school education vary among programs in terms of how they integrate it into learning actual OS?

Yes, very much. Some programs have you start with med school, but most do an OMFS intern year first before sending you to medical school. Some do 2nd and 3rd year med school, most do 3rd and 4th, some do all 4 years.

 

[Contach]

Some do 2nd and 3rd year med school, most do 3rd and 4th, some do all 4 years.

That's interesting.. I never knew that most do 3rd and 4th of medical school - so it's all clinical rotations? Isn't a normal 4th year medical school year all electives? What do OMFS residents chose as electives?

 

[CMistry]

That's interesting.. I never knew that most do 3rd and 4th of medical school - so it's all clinical rotations? Isn't a normal 4th year medical school year all electives? What do OMFS residents chose as electives?

It's not all electives but the majority of it is... I think some programs let the residents have a normal MS4 year, and others make them come back on service as the "elective".

 

[BlackThought]

Great thread. Thanks for doing this.

I know you've already addressed the whole idea of where research falls into the 'hierarchy' of one's application, but I had questions that is related to that idea but from a different perspective. At my dental school, it seems to be a 'very good idea' to pursue research for certain specialties, specifically for Ortho and OMFS. Regardless of people's opinion on that, is it possible to utilize dental research I conducted while in my undergrad (as well as in my year off), for my application to a specialty? or would that be something that is not really considered since it was done before I entered dental school? (For the record, the research was related to orthodontics but had aspects of oral surgery as well). I'm just really debating weather or not to do research this upcoming summer as I've been doing it for the past 4 years and in the end, I guess I just don't want to do research just for the hell of it.

Any opinions and/or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[CMistry]

Great thread. Thanks for doing this.

I know you've already addressed the whole idea of where research falls into the 'hierarchy' of one's application, but I had questions that is related to that idea but from a different perspective. At my dental school, it seems to be a 'very good idea' to pursue research for certain specialties, specifically for Ortho and OMFS. Regardless of people's opinion on that, is it possible to utilize dental research I conducted while in my undergrad (as well as in my year off), for my application to a specialty? or would that be something that is not really considered since it was done before I entered dental school? (For the record, the research was related to orthodontics but had aspects of oral surgery as well). I'm just really debating weather or not to do research this upcoming summer as I've been doing it for the past 4 years and in the end, I guess I just don't want to do research just for the hell of it.

Any opinions and/or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks again.

Research will give you one more thing to talk about during interviews. Beyond that, it's not going to mean much unless you're well-published or had some really innovative research. I did a good amount of research at my dental school (in head & neck onc) and I was rarely (if ever) asked about it during my interviews. I know for a fact that at our program (Parkland) it means nothing. I think adding your undergrad/post-bacc research is fine as long as it is dental-related, but if it's not OMFS-related then it's really just empty text. I wouldn't be surprised if a program or two even took it as a red flag because it may look like you switched. But I'd still put it on my application. As far as continuing it, if you're really set on OMFS, I wouldn't bother.

 

[astanding]

CMistry, this thread is awesome. Thank you for all of your advice.

Is it possible to get an externship during the summer between D1/D2 years? Is this what you would recommend doing, or are there other more important matters that should be completed during this time?

Thanks in advance.

 

[CMistry]

CMistry, this thread is awesome. Thank you for all of your advice.

Is it possible to get an externship during the summer between D1/D2 years? Is this what you would recommend doing, or are there other more important matters that should be completed during this time?

Thanks in advance.

It would be a waste of your time (and the program's) at that point. I'd recommend you (a) spend time with your home OMFS program, (b) do some OMFS-related research, (c) take the CBSE if your school has prepared you for it, or (d) just take a vacation. We've had some D2s extern with us, and its really been a waste of time for all people involved. Shadowing your home program is probably what I'd do.

 

[Tufts R Us]

Could you elaborate a bit on why it was a waste of time for everyone ?

 

[CMistry]

Could you elaborate a bit on why it was a waste of time for everyone ?

Most students don't know enough about dentistry/medicine/OMFS at that point in their career. The knowledge you will pick up will be so advanced that it is difficult to integrate. Additionally, if you can't do anything hands-on (which most can't as a 1st year) you're of no help to the residents/faculty. Here at Parkland we have externs pulling teeth and doing minor procedures all day in clinic or in the OR... the D2s who come are basically shadowing for 2 weeks.

 

[capnamerica]

How much coffee do you drink now that you're in a surgical residency? Has this amount changed from your years in dental school or undergrad? What alternatives do you suggest for remaining awake and alert?

 

[CMistry]

How much coffee do you drink now that you're in a surgical residency? Has this amount changed from your years in dental school or undergrad? What alternatives do you suggest for remaining awake and alert?

I actually do not drink coffee, and I didn't in dental school either.. but I will drink of a Coke or Monster some days if I'm post-call. They sugar seems to do the trick for a few hours (until the crash).

 

[FLOSS UR TEETH]

In the four-year programs, do the residents take any didactic courses such as more anatomy and pharm or is it mainly hospital rotations and pick it up as you go? I also have a med school question forr the 6 year programs. I know the last 2 years of medical school are considered "clinical years" but what exactly do you do during M3 and M4? Is it mainly rotations or still a bunch of didactic classes? Thanks.

 

[CMistry]

In the four-year programs, do the residents take any didactic courses such as more anatomy and pharm or is it mainly hospital rotations and pick it up as you go?

It is almost all hospital rotations and you pick up the knowledge as you go. You would not take any medical school courses, but maybe a few resident-level ones (specific to the rotation you are on).

I also have a med school question forr the 6 year programs. I know the last 2 years of medical school are considered "clinical years" but what exactly do you do during M3 and M4? Is it mainly rotations or still a bunch of didactic classes? Thanks.

As an MS3/MS4 you rotate onto different services (Interal Medicine, Pediatrics, Neurology, OB-GYN, Surgery, etc.) where you will interview patients, do physical exams, write various notes, and occasionally make recommendations for treatment (which are mostly unused). At my school we still have classes that account for about 10-15% of our time, but this varies by school.

 

[FLOSS UR TEETH]

It is almost all hospital rotations and you pick up the knowledge as you go. You would not take any medical school courses, but maybe a few resident-level ones (specific to the rotation you are on).



As an MS3/MS4 you rotate onto different services (Interal Medicine, Pediatrics, Neurology, OB-GYN, Surgery, etc.) where you will interview patients, do physical exams, write various notes, and occasionally make recommendations for treatment (which are mostly unused). At my school we still have classes that account for about 10-15% of our time, but this varies by school.

Thank you very much for your response

 

[womboona]

CMistry,

Are you familiar with programs that pay for med school? With dental school loan interest compounding over 6 years, plus 2 years of med school, what is your strategy for loan repayment when begin practicing?

Thanks for the advice!

 

[CMistry]

CMistry,

Are you familiar with programs that pay for med school? With dental school loan interest compounding over 6 years, plus 2 years of med school, what is your strategy for loan repayment when begin practicing?

Thanks for the advice!

Honestly it's a big part of the reason our compensation seems so high. There's no way you're paying off those loans quickly, but the same could be said for a general dentist these days. 30 year repayment of 3gs/mo is probably the norm for graduating OMFS nowadays. I think we can handle that. Gotta pay to play right..

 

[CMistry]

CMistry,

Are you familiar with programs that pay for med school? With dental school loan interest compounding over 6 years, plus 2 years of med school, what is your strategy for loan repayment when begin practicing?

Thanks for the advice!

Oh and obviously the programs that pay a stipend during med school are very attractive. Unfortulately I found them to be at mostly weaker programs.

 

[Confidence23]

Great thread, Thank you.

How do OMFS programs evaluate your NBDE Part I scores if it is P/F? Do they now just look at your dental school grades and extracurriculars?

 

[CMistry]

Great thread, Thank you.

How do OMFS programs evaluate your NBDE Part I scores if it is P/F? Do they now just look at your dental school grades and extracurriculars?

There is a new exam called the CBSE, required of all applicants who do not have a numerical NBDE score from here on out. It is more important than grades or extra-curriculars.

 

[astanding]

It would be a waste of your time (and the program's) at that point. I'd recommend you (a) spend time with your home OMFS program, (b) do some OMFS-related research, (c) take the CBSE if your school has prepared you for it, or (d) just take a vacation. We've had some D2s extern with us, and its really been a waste of time for all people involved. Shadowing your home program is probably what I'd do.

My school does not yet have an Oral Surgery department. Would it be worth trying to get some shadowing experience at OMFS clinics in the area during the summer?

 

[CMistry]

My school does not yet have an Oral Surgery department. Would it be worth trying to get some shadowing experience at OMFS clinics in the area during the summer?

Definitely better than nothing, definitely not as good as an externship. This would be a good idea between first and second year of dental school.

 

[thewingman]

Do you have information about how much weight parkland placed on the CBSE? What were the scores for people who interviewed/are people parkland is looking to get into their program?

 

[CMistry]

Do you have information about how much weight parkland placed on the CBSE? What were the scores for people who interviewed/are people parkland is looking to get into their program?

The CBSE range was 56-90 for people we interviewed; the vast majority were between 64 and 74. Here at Parkland/UTSW the CBSE is heavily weighted in gaining an interview, not so important when it comes to ranking interviewees.

 

[thewingman]

Is the CBSE the main thing the program considers?

 

[CMistry]

Is the CBSE the main thing the program considers?

In terms of giving interviews, yes. In terms of match ranking, no. For the latter it is more important how you got along with faculty and residents.

 

[mskccdent]

From a resident's perspective, did name or prestige of your dental school have any impact in terms of interacting with potential applicants?

I'd really like to think no, and would hope so, but would like your thoughts.

I'm heading to Case but I know it's not as "well-known", but I love the school!

 

[CMistry]

From a resident's perspective, did name or prestige of your dental school have any impact in terms of interacting with potential applicants?

I'd really like to think no, and would hope so, but would like your thoughts.

I'm heading to Case but I know it's not as "well-known", but I love the school!

Absolutely not. I was more impressed by applicants who came from schools with lots of hands-on OMFS experience, but really even that is not a big part of the picture.

 

[Expert]

Does the dental school that you attend matter when it comes to getting into an OMFS residency? If your school does not have an OMFS residency program, will that hinder your chances of getting into an OMFS program?

 

[CMistry]

Does the dental school that you attend matter when it comes to getting into an OMFS residency?

It does play some role, but not a huge one. If a dental school has a track record of producing hard-working residents at a particular program, it's no surprise that they would be inclined to take more people from said school. I, personally, would still go to the cheapest school I got into.

If your school does not have an OMFS residency program, will that hinder your chances of getting into an OMFS program?

The diplomatic answer is no. But realistically, I spent an enormous amount of time with mine and got great rec letters from the surgeons. They were willing to help me out if I didn't match. I imagine going to a school without an OMFS program, you wouldn't be able to build those kind of relationships.

 

[Expert]

What would you suggest if the dental school does not have an OMFS program and/or the school does not really have a track record of sending residents to any particular program?

Do you foresee OMFS compensation to remain high? Or does it fluctuate depending on the economic climate?

 

[CMistry]

What would you suggest if the dental school does not have an OMFS program and/or the school does not really have a track record of sending residents to any particular program?

Try to do a lengthy (3 weeks+) externship. Obviously the more externships you have under your belt the better off you are, but I think a lengthy one would offer you a different experience (like a home program).

Do you foresee OMFS compensation to remain high? Or does it fluctuate depending on the economic climate?

It does fluctuate with economic climate. I don't forsee compensation going down much, but really I don't know much about that.

 

[Phish]

Basically the way I feel is: NBME > Grades > Externships >> Research >> Extracurriculars.

Did your interviewers say explicitly that they value NBME grades the most, or was this the impression that you got from the overall process?

 

[CMistry]

Did your interviewers say explicitly that they value NBME grades the most, or was this the impression that you got from the overall process?

That was my impression (except it was the NBDE) when I interviewed, but being on the other side I can affirmatively tell you that's how it is (at least here).

 

[Phish]

Thanks very much. Great thread by the way.

 

[SearedTuna]

How much does where you've externed matter when programs look at your resume?

Does your program mostly only interview/match with applicants who have externed there?

 

[CMistry]

How much does where you've externed matter when programs look at your resume?

It matters. Most programs know which externships are serious and which are a joke.

Does your program mostly only interview/match with applicants who have externed there?

Most of the applicants we interview/accept have externed here. That is probably true for most programs across the country.

That being said, we have about 1-2 residents/yr who did not. I am one of them.

 

[omfs2017]

It matters. Most programs know which externships are serious and which are a joke.



Most of the applicants we interview/accept have externed here. That is probably true for most programs across the country.

That being said, we have about 1-2 residents/yr who did not. I am one of them.

Thank you so much for doing this. Could you post here or message me which externship locations you think are great and which ones I should stay away from?

 

[CMistry]

Thank you so much for doing this. Could you post here or PM me which externship locations you think are great and which ones I should stay away from?

I honestly don't know them the way the program directors do -- you'd be better off asking one of them. Some of the good hands-on externships include LSU-NO, LSU-S, Parkland, Emory, and UAB, but there are many more I'm not familiar with.

 

[meillard]

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[meillard]

...

 

[CMistry]

Thanks CMistry for taking time to do this for all of us!

My question, would it be a significant advantage to attend a dental school with a med school curriculum to prepare for the NBME? I'm trying to decide between UPenn and Columbia, where the latter is completely med school driven preclinically. Judging from the curriculum at UPenn, it doesn't seem to be as didactic as Columbia, which was why I was curious because this could be THE factor that makes my decision..

I imagine it would make life easier, but only in terms of your NBME score. If you think you can rock a good score without the medical school training (as the vast majority of us do), I don't really see a benefit. Personally I would go to the cheaper school.

 

[CMistry]

On a related note, how does the H/P/F system of Columbia fare against the letter grading system at UPenn? I heard that letter/numerical grading and explicit class rank is preferred over P/F but then again it might just be heresay

I don't know how Columbia is but I'm pretty sure UPENN doesn't rank their students below 11/??? They only rank their top ten. So the two schools grading schemes probably aren't all that different where it matters.