Anyone have questions about OMFS residency or the application process?

[CMistry]

Hey!

Thanks for starting the thread

Could you describe a little bit about your ECs?

As an entering dental student I want to sort of visualize which level of ECs I should be active in.

Best,

I assume you're asking about things other than research and externships (those are the main two). I made sandwiches for the homeless, tutored middle school kids math/science, tutored gross anatomy and pathology to dental students, etc. You'll find that if it's not related to the OMFS, it's really not very important.

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[chlrbwls]

I assume you're asking about things other than research and externships (those are the main two). I made sandwiches for the homeless, tutored middle school kids math/science, tutored gross anatomy and pathology to dental students, etc. You'll find that if it's not related to the OMFS, it's really not very important.

Thanks so much

 

[predent1891]

How important are extracurriculars? And how important is research?

 

[CMistry]

How important are extracurriculars? And how important is research?

Look three posts up...

 

[The Anhedonia]

When does the new clinic at parkland open? When i was there i noticed a ton of construction and the residents briefly mentioned it.

 

[CMistry]

When does the new clinic at parkland open? When i was there i noticed a ton of construction and the residents briefly mentioned it.

When the new hospital opens, which is supposed to be late 2014/early 2015 from what I hear. How was your time here? Sorry I was on an away rotation at Presbyterian Hospital so I didn't get to swing by clinic.

 

[alxspider]

Can you tell us about interviews? What do they ask? What are they interested in knowing about you? What do they value? What can applicants do to rock the interview?

 

[womboona]

How early is too early to start externships? Would an externship in the fall/winter of D2 year be too early? I have heard mixed responses.

 

[armorshell]

When the new hospital opens, which is supposed to be late 2014/early 2015 from what I hear. How was your time here? Sorry I was on an away rotation at Presbyterian Hospital so I didn't get to swing by clinic.

Mmmmmmm, physicians dining hall buffet........

 

[CMistry]

Can you tell us about interviews? What do they ask? What are they interested in knowing about you? What do they value? What can applicants do to rock the interview?

All the things you expect them to ask.. really... Why OMFS? What got you interested? What do you like the most about it? Where did you extern? What did you like most about that place? What are you looking for in a program? They want to know that you're interested and more importantly committed. Most programs are looking for a blank slate, so they don't care too much about what you already know... (if they ask it's just to make sure you're genuinely interested in the field) but they know their programs are rough and want to make sure you're a team player who won't quit on them.

How early is too early to start externships? Would an externship in the fall/winter of D2 year be too early? I have heard mixed responses.

It's never really too early. A lot of the reputable externships won't let you visit before you are in clinic, but even observing during 1st/2nd year looks good. No yours isn't too early.

Mmmmmmm, physicians dining hall buffet........

Closed for renovations but still free food in the docs lounge...

 

[Contach]

Hi there,

Why are OMFS programs in the south considered 'cowboy' programs? Are there a lack of plastics/ENT programs? Is the amount of trauma/pathology there just that overwhelming?

Why do some programs tell their interns that they cannot be accepted for a categorical spot, no matter how much they are liked?

 

[CMistry]

Hi there,

Why are OMFS programs in the south considered 'cowboy' programs? Are there a lack of plastics/ENT programs? Is the amount of trauma/pathology there just that overwhelming?

I'm not sure why, but yes, we are more trauma/pathology heavy (in general) here in the south. It is not due to a lack of plastics/ENT programs. It might just be that we have historically had more presence in the hospitals... just a guess.

Why do some programs tell their interns that they cannot be accepted for a categorical spot, no matter how much they are liked?

Our program director feels that by accepting our own interns it will reduce the quality of traditional applicants (or at least affect their rank process). He has a firm rule that he will not do this. We also have a relatively high cut-off for rank/board scores which most other programs' interns probably don't meet. I've heard that some other programs prefer a "blank slate"... but I really don't know too much about this as I'm only a resident.

 

[NTATD]

We also have a relatively high cut-off for rank/board scores which most other programs' interns probably don't meet.

Could you be specific as to what the cut offs are?

Thanks

 

[CMistry]

Could you be specific as to what the cut offs are?

Thanks

If you're asking about the NBME, I don't know yet. I think all 28 of us were 90+ on the NBDE and top 10%+ of our class, if ranked.

 

[Bereno]

Made it to "thread of the day" on SND's facebook page - nice

 

[Contach]

That's pretty standard though, isnt it? With a couple exceptions for particular people who stand out, here and there...

 

[CMistry]

That's pretty standard though, isnt it? With a couple exceptions for particular people who stand out, here and there...

Are you referring to the intern policy? I've found that most places will accept their own interns (at least one of them)/year.

 

[sgv]

What happens when you guys get sick and miss out on your duties during residency? I recently had the flu, an ear infection, some headaches and missed several good days where I could have been studying for gross anatomy. I still went to all the lectures/labs but crashed right when I got home. Now I'm paying dearly by playing catch up. Is there such a thing as falling behind during residency (not med school), possibly procedure wise? How do you make up for it?

 

[CMistry]

What happens when you guys get sick and miss out on your duties during residency? I recently had the flu, an ear infection, some headaches and missed several good days where I could have been studying for gross anatomy. I still went to all the lectures/labs but crashed right when I got home. Now I'm paying dearly by playing catch up. Is there such a thing as falling behind during residency (not med school), possibly procedure wise? How do you make up for it?

sgv,

You've got to be pretty damn sick to skip a day in OMFS residency. The difference is that residency is the start of your career, no longer just school, so if you can't come in other people will have to fill in for you. You can't really fall behind, but you will miss out on some experiences. You don't have to make up for it unless you're missing a significant amount of time. On the other hand, if you have to miss a call (where you are the only person on duty), you will have to find someone to switch that day with you and make it up some other time. More than anything, missing a day is a hassle and you don't want to do it as a resident. You will likely catch **** for it from your upper levels unless it's a terminal illness.

 

[alxspider]

sgv,

You've got to be pretty damn sick to skip a day in OMFS residency. The difference is that residency is the start of your career, no longer just school, so if you can't come in other people will have to fill in for you. You can't really fall behind, but you will miss out on some experiences. You don't have to make up for it unless you're missing a significant amount of time. On the other hand, if you have to miss a call (where you are the only person on duty), you will have to find someone to switch that day with you and make it up some other time. More than anything, missing a day is a hassle and you don't want to do it as a resident. You will likely catch **** for it from your upper levels unless it's a terminal illness.

So it is okay to be sick and get other people sick at the hospital? Awesome! Just kidding

How does your program look at students from pass/fail schools like UConn?

It seems that southern programs are good for scope. Which other southern programs did you interview at? What are your thoughts about the other programs in LA, TX, etc?

 

[CMistry]

So it is okay to be sick and get other people sick at the hospital? Awesome! Just kidding

How does your program look at students from pass/fail schools like UConn?

P/F just means everything else is more important. We don't discriminate against them for not having a rank. 2/4 co-residents came from P/F schools; both tell me they wouldn't have been in the top 10% of their class but they had rocking board scores so...

It seems that southern programs are good for scope. Which other southern programs did you interview at? What are your thoughts about the other programs in LA, TX, etc?

In the south I interviewed at UAB, Emory, UF Jacksonville, UF Gainesville, Nova, Jackson Memorial, LSU-NO, LSU-S, UNC, etc. I would agree that (in general) the southern programs have a larger scope, which attracts a lot of applicants. I also interviewed in the NE, but ended up ranking most of the southern programs higher (even though I'm from the NE). It's not so much the scope as it was the "hands-on" factor that attracted me to these programs.

 

[DentNYC13]

do you know of specific programs that prefer interns? also, do you know of any programs that won't consider interns?

 

[CMistry]

do you know of specific programs that prefer interns?

Most programs tend to take their own interns, but some programs that had a notable amount of other interns: NOVA, Jackson Memorial, Washington Hospital Center

also, do you know of any programs that won't consider interns?

Parkland and UAB (I believe), but I'm sure there's many more

 

[The Anhedonia]

CMistry,

what is the exact cost/salary break down at parkland? since you guys do 6 weeks as pgy-1 then go to med school, how does that work? and are you paying in-state for 3 years?
thanks

 

[CMistry]

CMistry,

what is the exact cost/salary break down at parkland? since you guys do 6 weeks as pgy-1 then go to med school, how does that work? and are you paying in-state for 3 years?
thanks

Yup, we pay 3 years of med school tuition @ ~$17k/yr but also get reimbursed $3-4k of that (Parkland repays us). So our tuition ends up costing about $40-42k over the 3 years. We are paid a resident stipend for a total of 45-46 months, and the pay here is relatively good (PGY-1 is $54k+). We are only paid while we are on service, gen surg, anesthesia, and ENT -- so we are not paid while on med school rotations.

 

[capnamerica]

With the work hours being as demanding as they are, do you find yourself eating out mostly, or do you find time to prepare your own meals?

 

[CMistry]

With the work hours being as demanding as they are, do you find yourself eating out mostly, or do you find time to prepare your own meals?

If you enjoy cooking you will find a way to make time for it. The rest of us eat out way too much.

 

[sgv]

I just finished a six week course in gross anatomy. We only covered muscles, arteries, veins, nerves, and a little lymphatics from the head to the elbow/waist. We only covered the thorax (lungs/heart) and skipped the abdomen. I did well on the course but I feel like I know nothing after flipping through the BRS for gross anatomy. My very general question is if this is normal for most dental schools and my specific question is if I am very behind for the CBSE.

Thank you!

 

[CMistry]

I just finished a six week course in gross anatomy. We only covered muscles, arteries, veins, nerves, and a little lymphatics from the head to the elbow/waist. We only covered the thorax (lungs/heart) and skipped the abdomen. I did well on the course but I feel like I know nothing after flipping through the BRS for gross anatomy. My very general question is if this is normal for most dental schools and my specific question is if I am very behind for the CBSE.

Thank you!

Obviously you haven't covered but half of what the med students cover, and your H&N is probably superior but unnecessary for the exam. Fortunately, anatomy is a very minor component of the CBSE/USMLE so you won't have any big issues.

 

[sgv]

Off the top of your head, who would you say are the most influential and still living contributors to OMS?

If you were a D1 again, would you take the CBSE first (right after D1 in the summer) and then worry about extracurricular and NBDE later?

 

[CMistry]

Off the top of your head, who would you say are the most influential and still living contributors to OMS?

Turvey, Ord, Sinn, White, Kaban, Dodson... I haven't spent much time on OMFS yet, so I'm definitely not the best person to ask about this.

If you were a D1 again, would you take the CBSE first (right after D1 in the summer) and then worry about extracurricular and NBDE later?

I would take the CBSE at the same time as the NBDE, preferably soon after your basic science classes. I don't think you should split up the NBDE and CBSE, since the majority of the content overlaps. Yes, you can worry about extracurriculars afterwards.

 

[sgv]

Turvey, Ord, Sinn, White, Kaban, Dodson... I haven't spent much time on OMFS yet, so I'm definitely not the best person to ask about this.



I would take the CBSE at the same time as the NBDE, preferably soon after your basic science classes. I don't think you should split up the NBDE and CBSE, since the majority of the content overlaps. Yes, you can worry about extracurriculars afterwards.

Thank you!

 

[sgv]

So I was talking to my OMS department about research. They only have research involving surveys and they recommend I start participating my first or second year because it involves patients and therefore research approval, a process that may take several months. I prefer basic science research and would rather spend my first year summer studying for CBSE. Would survey research be worth possibly postponing CBSE? I remember reading that most residencies care about numbers almost exclusively.

Thank you!

 

[CMistry]

So I was talking to my OMS department about research. They only have research involving surveys and they recommend I start participating my first or second year because it involves patients and therefore research approval, a process that may take several months. I prefer basic science research and would rather spend my first year summer studying for CBSE. Would survey research be worth possibly postponing CBSE? I remember reading that most residencies care about numbers almost exclusively.

Thank you!

I would agree that numbers are the most important (maybe even exclusively). I would not mess up or compromise a CBSE score for any extra-curriculars, including research. Of course OMFS research is better than basic science research (at the same level of involvement), and it will also give you something to talk about on interviews (as well as educate you further on the field). That being said, I think any research at all is a plus and it's not expected.

 

[womboona]

What are your plans after residency? Can you give a brief overview of your interpretation of different routes OMFS graduates take? Private practice, fellowship etc.

 

[BrutalViking]

^ This. Also, for those that choose to work in hospitals, what are the most common procedures they deal with/do?

Thanks

 

[CMistry]

What are your plans after residency? Can you give a brief overview of your interpretation of different routes OMFS graduates take? Private practice, fellowship etc.

My plans change so often they're not worth posting... right now I think I would like to own a PP and be an associate professor/attending at a teaching hospital.

The options are as follows:
-Strictly private practice - 3rd molars, implants, difficult/medically compromised extractions, minor pathology, maybe TMJ or minor cosmetics if you find a niche
- Private practice with hospital privileges - you will work FT in a private practice as well as take occasional call at either a private hospital or teaching hospital. You may also have your own cases i.e. TMJ surgeries or orthognathics at the hospital. This is what most of us residents want to do, but it's not easy to set up. It's obviously much easier if you can setup your hospital gig at a university since you will have minions to help you.
-Strictly academics - you will be associated with a hospital and residency program full-time, you will most likely staff major OR cases in trauma/infections as well as your niche (which may require a fellowship)

Those are the three main setups (in order of popularity, I believe)... of course there are others, but those are by far the most common. One of the great things about OMFS is the flexibility in an individual's scope when leaving residency.

^ This. Also, for those that choose to work in hospitals, what are the most common procedures they deal with/do?

Thanks

By far the most common OR procedures for us are trauma and infection drainage. If you're asking about elective procedures, it is probably orthognathics followed by TMJ. As an attending I'm guessing about half of your cases will be in your niche (be it oncology, reconstruction, orthognathics, craniofacial, TMJ, etc.). I should also mention that there are OMFS attendings who do everything they get their hands on.

 

[womboona]

Pardon my naïveté, but can you elaborate obtaining hospital privileges? Why is that difficult to set up, availability? Hoops to jump through? Are there lots political issues involved? Do you see more political issues arising in the future in OMFS, 4 year vs 6 year etc?

Thank you for your input, its greatly appreciated ))

 

[CMistry]

Pardon my naïveté, but can you elaborate obtaining hospital privileges? Why is that difficult to set up, availability? Hoops to jump through? Are there lots political issues involved?

There is nothing difficult about obtaining hospital privileges as an OMFS. Your case log should show more than enough experience in the basics. The difficulty I was speaking of is in running both a busy private practice and taking call at a hospital. Fixating a mandible at 2am is not conducive to a full day of wisdom teeth and implants. Again, not saying it can't be done...

Do you see more political issues arising in the future in OMFS, 4 year vs 6 year etc?

No.

 

[sgv]

How thoroughly does your residency expect you to read JOMS? When should I be familiar with what's in Abubaker's Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Secrets? I looked through it once and was almost completely lost.

 

[CMistry]

How thoroughly does your residency expect you to read JOMS? When should I be familiar with what's in Abubaker's Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Secrets? I looked through it once and was almost completely lost.

JOMS is a great resource but it's more important for us to learn fundamentals than cutting-edge research. I'm sure some people love it and read it as soon as they get it... I skim through it for articles that interest me.

I read Secrets as a D4 and understood it.. I'm not sure where you are in your training but that should give you a reference point.

 

[cludestyle]

First off, thanks CMistry for taking time to do this. Really appreciate it!

I just had one quick question. My undergrad GPA is 3.65 (as shown on transcript), is this acceptable/competitive at 6-year programs? I know it's still very early to think about residency since I'm still in my pre-dental interview years, but I'm of the opinion that it's never really too early to think about something as big as this.

I'm just worried that I'm out of the running even before embarking on dental school since I hear that some institutions are "stat-******". Will exceptional performance in dental school GPA and on the CBSE hopefully make up for a relatively low undergrad GPA?

Thanks again

 

[CMistry]

First off, thanks CMistry for taking time to do this. Really appreciate it!

I just had one quick question. My undergrad GPA is 3.65 (as shown on transcript), is this acceptable/competitive at 6-year programs? I know it's still very early to think about residency since I'm still in my pre-dental interview years, but I'm of the opinion that it's never really too early to think about something as big as this.

I'm just worried that I'm out of the running even before embarking on dental school since I hear that some institutions are "stat-******". Will exceptional performance in dental school GPA and on the CBSE hopefully make up for a relatively low undergrad GPA?

Thanks again

It's not a problem. There are a select few 6-yr programs that it may exclude (mostly because their med school has too much input) but it will not matter for the vast majority. We have people in our program who did much worse in college. And yes, you will have to do well in dental school to get into a 6yr program, regardless of your college grades.

 

[CMistry]

Thanks for making yourself available, CMistry!

I'm currently running in the middle of the pack, class rank-wise. Can a strong NBME, I'm thinking 70+, overcome this?

In terms of matching overall, I think you would be OK... but your rank will probably have an impact on where you interview. The lesson here is that you'll have to apply broadly.

Also, does having an additional graduate degree (i.e. MS, MPH, etc) have any bearing on an applicant's consideration?

Most likely not. It may appeal to a few programs but I think on the whole, if it's not OMFS related, it's not a huge plus.

 

[dbgt]

Im a foreign trained dentist,, do you have any information about FTD's doing OMFS residencies? I know 6 year programs are not possible because of the medical school. Im interested in a 4 year program, especially the Jackson Memorial OMFS program.

Starting this December, i will go to Japan to do a 4 year PhD program at the OMFS department of a prestigious national university of that country.

Many things could happen in 4 years, but currently my plan is to apply to a OMFS residency in the US after finishing the PhD in Japan. I have also done OMFS internships in 2 different countries. Im currently 26 years old.

To apply for a 4 year OMFS residency, do i need to get a DDS degree from a US university, even though I will have a PhD from a Japanese university and my dental degree from my home country?

Any feedback or advice would be appreciatted, thanks

 

[CMistry]

Im a foreign trained dentist,, do you have any information about FTD's doing OMFS residencies? I know 6 year programs are not possible because of the medical school. Im interested in a 4 year program, especially the Jackson Memorial OMFS program.

Starting this December, i will go to Japan to do a 4 year PhD program at the OMFS department of a prestigious national university of that country.

Many things could happen in 4 years, but currently my plan is to apply to a OMFS residency in the US after finishing the PhD in Japan. I have also done OMFS internships in 2 different countries. Im currently 26 years old.

To apply for a 4 year OMFS residency, do i need to get a DDS degree from a US university, even though I will have a PhD from a Japanese university and my dental degree from my home country?

Any feedback or advice would be appreciatted, thanks

Unless you have a U.S. DDS/DMD degree you will be severely limited in which states you can practice in. This bothers some people but not others. Obviously those states are relatively saturated and the jobs for foreign grads are still sparce.

 

[atomsforpizza]

Hi, I've been reading this thread for a while, this is all really good stuff. I'm a D1 about halfway through the first semester. Someone came to our school and told us that the path to OMFS starts now and I was wondering what kind of things I can do (now) that can build a solid foundation. I know grades are a start for sure.

Also as far as class rank/gpa, is it realistic to be matched if you aren't the top 10%? Is top 50% realistic? again, I'm gonna do by best, but I just wanted some perspective.

 

[CMistry]

Hi, I've been reading this thread for a while, this is all really good stuff. I'm a D1 about halfway through the first semester. Someone came to our school and told us that the path to OMFS starts now and I was wondering what kind of things I can do (now) that can build a solid foundation. I know grades are a start for sure.

From first year I would focus on getting good grades, and maybe getting your foot in the door with research if you have time (not a "must"). When the NBME time comes, put everything else on hold and try to destroy it. Once that is over you should try to mix externships and research, while trying to keep your dental school grades at least average. Everything else you'll do is peripheral (I think research is as well), and really not too important. Basically the way I feel is: NBME > Grades > Externships >> Research >> Extracurriculars.

Also as far as class rank/gpa, is it realistic to be matched if you aren't the top 10%? Is top 50% realistic? again, I'm gonna do by best, but I just wanted some perspective.

You absolutely do NOT have to be in the top 10% of your class to get into OMFS residency. But it should be obvious that the higher you are, the better (and more numerous) interviews you will get. There are programs that have cutoffs at the top 10%, but the vast majority do not. If you're only in the top 50% you're probably fighting an uphill battle. I would say be at least in the top 1/3, but again the top 10% is best. To be in the top 1/3 you have to aim for the top 10%, to be the top 10% you have to aim to be #1... etc.

 

[yappy]

You absolutely do NOT have to be in the top 10% of your class to get into OMFS residency. But it should be obvious that the higher you are, the better (and more numerous) interviews you will get. There are programs that have cutoffs at the top 10%, but the vast majority do not. If you're only in the top 50% you're probably fighting an uphill battle. I would say be at least in the top 1/3, but again the top 10% is best. To be in the top 1/3 you have to aim for the top 10%, to be the top 10% you have to aim to be #1... etc.

What if your school doesn't have rankings but has grades instead? Is that viewed negatively by programs?

Thank you.

 

[CMistry]

What if your school doesn't have rankings but has grades instead? Is that viewed negatively by programs?

Thank you.

Most schools that have grades make rankings, though they may not be sorted until needed (3rd year). I think students from those schools that don't have rankings are at no disadvantage, but they're expected to have similar board scores to those who do.