Anyone applying for specialty training read this

[krmower]

I get a lot of questions off-line about the specialty programs and there is one thing that surpises people so I want everyone to be aware of it. In the Army (and I would assume the other services also) specialty programs are selected for 18 months in advance. The board that meets every December is selecting for the summer 1 1/2 years away. That means that if you get selected for a program during your senior year of dental school - you will go to the location where the program will be offered and work as a general dentist for 1 year while you wait to start the program. You will then complete the program and do your payback. So I will show you 2 scenarios for specialty training:

1) OMFS - selected straight out of school w/ a 4 yr HPSP. 1 year as a general dentist at location A (paying back 1 yr HPSP). Then proceed into OMFS program for 4 years. You will then pay back the 4 years for OMFS (the 3 years you had left for HPSP will be paid back simultaneously) at location B. You will have done a total of 9 years.

2) Comprehensive Dentistry (2 yr AEGD) w/ 3 yr HPSP. 1 year as a general dentist at location A (1 yr HPSP payback). 2 yrs in resdency. 2 yrs payback for residency and HPSP simultaneously. Total 5 years.

3) If you decide to come into the Army as a dentist and did not do HPSP, but instead came in as a direct accession - your pay back is not simultaeous (concurrent). You will owe more time then an HPSP Officer for any training program you do.

So this is supposed to show you 2 things: 1) going in to specialty training directly after school (or even within 1 yr) maximizes your payback benefit. 2) Some programs you can not get into the summer you graduate - you will more than likely have to wait 1 yr for the program to start.

Now for the exceptions. If you do OBC before or during dental school, there is the potential you could start a specialty program immediately when you graduate if there is an opening (some programs there frequently are). OBC is the first thing you must do when beginning life as an officer. If you have not done this prior to dental school graduation - no matter if there is an opening that summer or not you will not be eligible to do it since you have to do OBC. So if you even want a shot at going straight into a program out of school - do OBC before/during school.

Programs where you may be able to go into straight out of school are:
Comprehensive dentist (2-yr AEGD), Prosth, Perio, and maybe OMFS. The 12 month AEGD is not a specialty and is only for people graduating dental school. Again the determining factor is - are there any open slots the summer you are graduating that were not filled the year prior? If there is and you have done OBC then when you apply your senior year of dental school you can somehow let them know you would like to begin immediately. If there are no openings they can't do anything about it. The best place to let them know this would be in your letter of intent.

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[jmick101]

Great info, thanks. Especially since I am one of the people always bugging you.

I am just throwing this out there FYI, but a buddy of mine last year applied for OS and was put into someones slot who had declined. He went to Officer Basic Course (OBC) the day of graduation, left OBC and reported to his residency four days after that to begin a couple weeks late. He was prior service and an ROTC grad, I am sure that had something to with things. Needless to say he was stressed out with the logistics of moving his family from California to Georgia and getting settled and all that, but he managed.

From this I gathered a couple things. You WILL NOT be able to get out of OBC for any reason whatsoever (he tried for months). Next, the Army apparently has some flexibility about letting people start residencies late, but it is definitely on a case by case basis and up to the respective program director. I don't think this happens very often but if the stars align in your behalf, you may just get lucky.

 

[krmower]

Great info, thanks. Especially since I am one of the people always bugging you.

I am just throwing this out there FYI, but a buddy of mine last year applied for OS and was put into someones slot who had declined. He went to Officer Basic Course (OBC) the day of graduation, left OBC and reported to his residency four days after that to begin a couple weeks late. He was prior service and an ROTC grad, I am sure that had something to with things. Needless to say he was stressed out with the logistics of moving his family from California to Georgia and getting settled and all that, but he managed.

From this I gathered a couple things. You WILL NOT be able to get out of OBC for any reason whatsoever (he tried for months). Next, the Army apparently has some flexibility about letting people start residencies late, but it is definitely on a case by case basis and up to the respective program director. I don't think this happens very often but if the stars align in your behalf, you may just get lucky.

I would agree with your comment. Like I said - some residencies it is much easier to get an immediate start than others. OS is one that can be tricky - but possible.

 

[eric275]

In the Army (and I would assume the other services also) specialty programs are selected for 18 months in advance. The board that meets every December is selecting for the summer 1 1/2 years away. That means that if you get selected for a program during your senior year of dental school - you will go to the location where the program will be offered and work as a general dentist for 1 year while you wait to start the program. You will then complete the program and do your payback. So I will show you 2 scenarios for specialty training:

This is not the case for the Navy and Air Force. If you apply your senior year and are accepted to a residency you will start the program the summer immediately after graduation.

Specifically in the Navy you apply for residencies May before your senior year. This past year the boards met in mid-May and notified students of their acceptance about a month later around mid-June.

 

[jmick101]

This is not the case for the Navy and Air Force. If you apply your senior year and are accepted to a residency you will start the program the summer immediately after graduation.

Specifically in the Navy you apply for residencies May before your senior year. This past year the boards met in mid-May and notified students of their acceptance about a month later around mid-June.

That is pretty cool. I guess this is just another reason that you jumped ship eh? Imagine that, jumping ship, onto a ship. (Ok, that was dumb.)

 

[eric275]

That is pretty cool. I guess this is just another reason that you jumped ship eh? Imagine that, jumping ship, onto a ship. (Ok, that was dumb.)

Lol, it was a good attempt

 

[KOM]

This is not the case for the Navy and Air Force. If you apply your senior year and are accepted to a residency you will start the program the summer immediately after graduation.

Specifically in the Navy you apply for residencies May before your senior year. This past year the boards met in mid-May and notified students of their acceptance about a month later around mid-June.

What if you haven't done officer basic training yet (like many 3 year HPSP students)?

 

[Lifetime2Drill]

This is another question in regards to specialty training in the Army. I have heard that if you want to retire in the Army then you pretty much have to specialize. Is that true? What happens if you don't?

 

[KOM]

...blindfolded in front of a firing squad.

 

[jmick101]

This is another question in regards to specialty training in the Army. I have heard that if you want to retire in the Army then you pretty much have to specialize. Is that true? What happens if you don't?

An eternity on the amalgam/exam line, bwuhaahhahaaa

 

[krmower]

This is another question in regards to specialty training in the Army. I have heard that if you want to retire in the Army then you pretty much have to specialize. Is that true? What happens if you don't?

It is not true. There are some officers that have never done anything. You can stay in 20 years like that (they are few). If you don't specialize the highest rank you will get is an an LTC/O-5, not an O-6/COL.

 

[krmower]

What if you haven't done officer basic training yet (like many 3 year HPSP students)?

You can try to squeeze it in during school (it is a condensed course), if you absolutely can't then you will do it the summer you graduate.

 

[umkcdds]

This is another question in regards to specialty training in the Army. I have heard that if you want to retire in the Army then you pretty much have to specialize. Is that true? What happens if you don't?

....but it's not all that difficult to show some motivation and want to become a better dentists and at least do a 2-year AEGD, even if you don't want to do a specialty.

i've seen several O-5 and O-6's on the 2-year AEGD lists over the last few years. if you are thinking about staying in more than four years, and want to be a general dentist, i would highly encourage you to do the 2-year AEGD.

remember that O-5 is not an automatic promotion. it is still at least fairly tough to even get O-5 without having done a residency - and like was already mentioned, impossible to get O-6.

 

[Lifetime2Drill]

....but it's not all that difficult to show some motivation and want to become a better dentists and at least do a 2-year AEGD, even if you don't want to do a specialty.

i've seen several O-5 and O-6's on the 2-year AEGD lists over the last few years. if you are thinking about staying in more than four years, and want to be a general dentist, i would highly encourage you to do the 2-year AEGD.

remember that O-5 is not an automatic promotion. it is still at least fairly tough to even get O-5 without having done a residency - and like was already mentioned, impossible to get O-6.

I get it, but I'm planning on doing the one year AEGD when I graduate. I'm open to staying in the Army, depending on how my family gets along with it. So f I do the one year directly out of school I'm not going to want to go back and do the two year. Maybe I'll get selected to do another specialty ten years down the line or so, but as of now my grades and board scores are nowhere near that.

 

[bvf]

Is there such thing as a 2 year HPSP in Army, Air Force or Navy?

 

[JSQUARED]

Is there such thing as a 2 year HPSP in Army, Air Force or Navy?

Yes, but your minimum payback is 3 years.

 

[umkcdds]

I get it, but I'm planning on doing the one year AEGD when I graduate. I'm open to staying in the Army, depending on how my family gets along with it. So f I do the one year directly out of school I'm not going to want to go back and do the two year. Maybe I'll get selected to do another specialty ten years down the line or so, but as of now my grades and board scores are nowhere near that.

i know several dental officers that did the 1-year, then a few years later did the 2-year AEGD.

 

[krmower]

I get it, but I'm planning on doing the one year AEGD when I graduate. I'm open to staying in the Army, depending on how my family gets along with it. So f I do the one year directly out of school I'm not going to want to go back and do the two year. Maybe I'll get selected to do another specialty ten years down the line or so, but as of now my grades and board scores are nowhere near that.

If that is what you are planning I would consider the 2 year. You are only adding an extra year, but your level of productivity if you get out will be much higher (military or private practice) - plus you won't have to deal with the 10 years down the road issue.

If you do decide you want to do a different specialty you can consider that also if you have done the 2 yr AEGD. 5 years after graduating you can re-sepcialize.

One advantage of the 2 yr would be that you will be stable a little longer (either program you will move when it is done).

 

[Smills91]

If that is what you are planning I would consider the 2 year. You are only adding an extra year, but your level of productivity if you get out will be much higher (military or private practice) - plus you won't have to deal with the 10 years down the road issue.

If you do decide you want to do a different specialty you can consider that also if you have done the 2 yr AEGD. 5 years after graduating you can re-sepcialize.

One advantage of the 2 yr would be that you will be stable a little longer (either program you will move when it is done).

What are the practical differences as a Clinical Dentist on the back side of training between the 2 year AEGD / 1 year GPR. Not so worried about military consequences such as pay/rank etc.

 

[krmower]

What are the practical differences as a Clinical Dentist on the back side of training between the 2 year AEGD / 1 year GPR. Not so worried about military consequences such as pay/rank etc.

Do a search on the forum - I think the programs have been detailed out pretty well.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

It's fairly known that comprehensive dentists have higher chances of deployment. Does anyone know how the military selects certain people to be deployed or is it you are assigned to a specific battalion and if they go, you go?

 

[krmower]

It's fairly known that comprehensive dentists have higher chances of deployment. Does anyone know how the military selects certain people to be deployed or is it you are assigned to a specific battalion and if they go, you go?

First off this is off topic - if you want to talk about this let's start a new thread. Here's the answer - but again start a new thread if you want to comment.

Actually general dentists deploy the most. Comprehensive dentists (2yr AEGD) and OMFS next. There are more comp dentists than other specialties so although there may be more slots that deploy - percentage or chance of going is less. As with other posts - many of the deployments are being filled by volunteers. When that doesn't work they use an OML.

Deployments for Comprehensive dentists and OMFS are decided by the dental command. They use an order of merit list.

General dentists and other specialists are chose at the next level down (region). Again, each Commander comes up with an order of merit list.

 

[umkcdds]

good info here.

 

[pmoney]

If that is what you are planning I would consider the 2 year. You are only adding an extra year, but your level of productivity if you get out will be much higher (military or private practice) - plus you won't have to deal with the 10 years down the road issue.

If you do decide you want to do a different specialty you can consider that also if you have done the 2 yr AEGD. 5 years after graduating you can re-sepcialize.

One advantage of the 2 yr would be that you will be stable a little longer (either program you will move when it is done).

I assume if you did a 1 yr AEGD, there is no limit to how soon you can specialize because the 1 yr is not considered a specialty in itself, is that correct?

 

[jmick101]

I assume if you did a 1 yr AEGD, there is no limit to how soon you can specialize because the 1 yr is not considered a specialty in itself, is that correct?

Correct. In fact, many folks will put in a residency packet while still in, or shortly after, the AEGD 1.

 

[krmower]

I assume if you did a 1 yr AEGD, there is no limit to how soon you can specialize because the 1 yr is not considered a specialty in itself, is that correct?

Correct.

 

[AFDDS]

This is not the case for the Navy and Air Force. If you apply your senior year and are accepted to a residency you will start the program the summer immediately after graduation.

Specifically in the Navy you apply for residencies May before your senior year. This past year the boards met in mid-May and notified students of their acceptance about a month later around mid-June.

I just wanted to readdress this for a second. In the AF some residencies are open to new graduates and some aren't. AEGD-2, Pros, OMFS are the main ones. Others can be available depending on the needs of the AF and whether or not the class is filled.

Most specialty residencies select people 1 year in advance. Perio will sometimes take new grads as well, but it changes from year to year. Only way to know for sure is to check with AFPC before the board during your senior year.

I know many want to go straight to their specialty program, but I think it's a good idea to go to a 1 year AEGD and get some experience before you take the plunge. Most specialty program directors would agree.

 

[MCL22]

I'm interested in applying for a pediatric residency in the Navy, so I would be trying to enter the program right after graduation. Does anybody know what board scores, class rank, GPA, I should have at a minimum to have a good chance for applying? Also, how does the application process work since the pediatric program is an out service program, do you have to get accepted by the Navy first, then get accepted by a civilian program? Thanks, any info would be great.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

my friend told me the Army only had a few apply for pedo and no1 got selected for the residency. Does the military need that much PEDO people ? It would seem only OCONUS bases that will treat family will need pedo's?

 

[krmower]

my friend told me the Army only had a few apply for pedo and no1 got selected for the residency. Does the military need that much PEDO people ? It would seem only OCONUS bases that will treat family will need pedo's?

The Army does not need many pediatric dentists - we currently have 20 + 4 currently training. In US locations they are assigned to locations where there are residency programs for the 1 and 2 year AEGD, or to a few isolated locations. Most are over seas.

This last board (Dec 2009) 10 applied and 2 were selected. Each year usually only 1 or 2 pediatric dentists are picked.

 

[kavin]

This is not the case for the Navy and Air Force. If you apply your senior year and are accepted to a residency you will start the program the summer immediately after graduation.
ACSpecifically in the Navy you apply for residencies May before your senior year. This past year the boards met in mid-May and notified students of their acceptance about a month later around mid-June.



US Army
Army Retirement Services

 

[AFDDS]

This is not the case for the Navy and Air Force. If you apply your senior year and are accepted to a residency you will start the program the summer immediately after graduation.
ACSpecifically in the Navy you apply for residencies May before your senior year. This past year the boards met in mid-May and notified students of their acceptance about a month later around mid-June.



US Army
Army Retirement Services

Not alwaysin the AF. You may get selected to start a program 18 months out. Some programs will select for immediate starts, but not all of them. See post #27 above

 

[umkcdds]

The Army does not need many pediatric dentists - we currently have 20 + 4 currently training. In US locations they are assigned to locations where there are residency programs for the 1 and 2 year AEGD, or to a few isolated locations. Most are over seas.

This last board (Dec 2009) 10 applied and 2 were selected. Each year usually only 1 or 2 pediatric dentists are picked.

i don't think there are any pediatric dentists at 1-year AGD's anymore. we, at fort campbell 1-year, were the last 1-year to have a pediatric dentist, and he left last summer.
i think the same is true for orthodontists. fort campbell is the last 1-year to have an orthodontist. he will be leaving next summer.

i'm not 100% sure this is true, but it is what i've been told by the director here at fort campbell.

 

[jmick101]

KMower,

For the benefit of those of us still in school, would you re-cap the application process please? I have read the Army form available from the amedd website, but some of it I am not sure what to do with. For instance, if you are interested in the two year AEGD residency, who do you get a letter of rec from? The Army wants that LOR from someone in that field. I assume that this is probably more pertinent to things like OS, endo, and pros, but... like I said, not sure.

Can you break down what your application timeline was? I.e when did you get a jump on things, did you work with your recruiter or HRC, and how did you go about that, etc. Aside from the fact that the application is due in its entirety in mid november, that is about all I know. Thanks.

 

[krmower]

KMower,

For the benefit of those of us still in school, would you re-cap the application process please? I have read the Army form available from the amedd website, but some of it I am not sure what to do with. For instance, if you are interested in the two year AEGD residency, who do you get a letter of rec from? The Army wants that LOR from someone in that field. I assume that this is probably more pertinent to things like OS, endo, and pros, but... like I said, not sure.

Can you break down what your application timeline was? I.e when did you get a jump on things, did you work with your recruiter or HRC, and how did you go about that, etc. Aside from the fact that the application is due in its entirety in mid november, that is about all I know. Thanks.

October senior year you should begin the application process with your recruiter. Letters of recommendation should come from faculty members in the specialties you are applying for. If it is comprehensive you are applying for a general dentist is the primary recommendation you should get, but one from any facutly member you have worked closely with will be good.

The recuriters may or may not be helpful it may vary - if you find that they are not helping out/unknowledgeable - you should contact the dept of Graduate Education (only after going through the recruiter first). (210) 221-0079

Board meets the first part of December, so packets should be in by the end of November at the latest.

 

[jmick101]

October senior year you should begin the application process with your recruiter. Letters of recommendation should come from faculty members in the specialties you are applying for. If it is comprehensive you are applying for a general dentist is the primary recommendation you should get, but one from any facutly member you have worked closely with will be good.

The recuriters may or may not be helpful it may vary - if you find that they are not helping out/unknowledgeable - you should contact the dept of Graduate Education (only after going through the recruiter first). (210) 221-0079

Board meets the first part of December, so packets should be in by the end of November at the latest.

Cool. Thanks. This is good to know because the recruiter in this neck of the woods, while a nice guy, is sometimes... less than helpful.

 

[geometric-pain]

Cool. Thanks. This is good to know because the recruiter in this neck of the woods, while a nice guy, is sometimes... less than helpful.

+1 on the recruiter biz

 

[Kokugeka Shiro]

You can try to squeeze it in during school (it is a condensed course), if you absolutely can't then you will do it the summer you graduate.

So I'm gathering that it is very unlikely for those like myself (HSCP) who won't be able to do OIC before graduation to be able to start a residency that summer after school?

 

[DrReo]

Does anyone have information about how many OMFS were selected last year by the Navy and what their average class rank/board scores were? Also, how many were recent graduates, did a 1 yr GPR/AEGD or were deployed general dentists?

 

[eric275]

Does anyone have information about how many OMFS were selected last year by the Navy and what their average class rank/board scores were? Also, how many were recent graduates, did a 1 yr GPR/AEGD or were deployed general dentists?

Just understand that the applicant pool and acceptances this year may be totally different 4-5 years from now. Your chances in any given year are dependant on the applicants that you are applying against.

I don't know how many applicants there were for this cycle but out of eight slots, three were given to new grads. Below is a list of the duty stations/schools each of the selected reidents is coming from.

Unless you make contact with one of the applicants I seriously doubt your going to find the applicants stats. The best way to find out what's competative is to talk directly to the program director/specialty leader. Also unless you are speaking specifically about new grads there are many other factors that influence acceptance once dentists are out in the fleet, i.e. types of experience, evaluations, etc.

2D Dental BN/NDC, Camp Lejeune
Naval Hospital Beaufort
University of Mississippi - New Grad
USS Boxer (LHD 4)
University of Puerto Rico - New Grad
University of Louisville - New Grad
Naval Hospital, Bremerton
Naval Medical Center, San Diego