Any PTs to MDs or PTs to DOs?

[PT2MD]

thaks alot for that reply,myr11...so if i wanna do M.d. i gotta complete medical school..ok fine..so how to get into medical school..should i do a pre-med course ?

Sounds like you've got a lot of information to put together before taking this plunge. I would start here:

http://share.studentdoctor.net/downloads/index.asp

You need to decide where you are willing to attend medical school and look at each one's admission requirements. Another useful website is the American Association of Medical Schools and the American Association of Osteopathic Medical Schools. Both offer a pathway to becoming a licensed physician in the US.

www.aamc.org

http://www.aacom.org/InfoFor/applicants/Pages/default.aspx

Good luck.

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[dmprice2]

I just began my second year of a DPT program this week and also had a medical school interview this week as well. I am looking to begin med school this July and stop PT school (I know, I know, I have done most of the hard work and only need two more years of clinical time to finish my degree, but...). I was recently married and am looking forward to starting a family sometime before I am 50. Spending the next two years in PT school and waiting after I finish to begin medical school while not making any money and throwing tuition away on a degree I will never use seems pretty dumb. Good luck to all!

 

[freddydpt]

I just began my second year of a DPT program this week and also had a medical school interview this week as well. I am looking to begin med school this July and stop PT school (I know, I know, I have done most of the hard work and only need two more years of clinical time to finish my degree, but...). I was recently married and am looking forward to starting a family sometime before I am 50. Spending the next two years in PT school and waiting after I finish to begin medical school while not making any money and throwing tuition away on a degree I will never use seems pretty dumb. Good luck to all!

Why spend the tuition on this year then?

 

[Bad0 Fish0]

Why spend the tuition on this year then?

because he doesn't know if he's accepted into med school...

 

[mjtan23]

I am going for an interview to get into PT school and if i get in i would start in sept 08 but i am seriously considering going directly to med school instead. I am turning 26 and would start med school at 27 and was just wondering what people think would be my best decision here.

 

[myr11]

As someone who also is battling between medical school and PT school, also in the process of applying to PT schools, I think you have to consider what your chances are in getting into medical school now. I am a bit younger then you and I do not feel like waiting longer to move on to my professional education. If I want to go to medical school I would have to apply for the 2009 fall semester. I rather be in a PT program starting this summer, and find out first hand that I want more and work toward getting into Med school(finishing up organic chem and take the mcat). I hear the argument that you may be wasting money on tuition but you know what if in the long run one semester or even one year of tuition will cause nothing more then maybe a bump in the road once your a physician. You will feel more secure with your decision for med school if you decide to go after experiencing PT school, you will have a great advantage in anatomy and physiology, and you will increase your chances of getting in if you show them that you were successful in a professional program. Another thing to consider is the stability and outlook of the health field as a whole. Who knows where health professional careers will stand in even a few years. They seem to be very changeable right now. As far as my understanding goes, if the APTA actually starts getting some political stuff together, reimbursement could perhaps go up which would make PT more profitable and fair. If you go through with PT school you are absolutely not closing the door to medical school even at your age which is not nearly as old as some from what I hear. You might even be more prepared and able to get into med school. If you wait to just get accepted to medical school. You may be closing some doors to PT programs, and also you risk more time where you delay your education. Think of it as a way of moving up and as a gateway.

 

[PT2MD]

I am going for an interview to get into PT school and if i get in i would start in sept 08 but i am seriously considering going directly to med school instead. I am turning 26 and would start med school at 27 and was just wondering what people think would be my best decision here.

I will start medical school (if I am accepted next week!) when I am 36. It's never too late to change your mind.

 

[ADUB]

I will start medical school (if I am accepted next week!) when I am 36. It's never too late to change your mind.

Congrats! You'll be done by the time you're 43-45 and still have 25 prime years to practice (or longer)! Good for you.

 

[GodismyDJ]

I actually heard from someone I live with (who's in a DPT program) that if you have your DPT and decide that you want to become an MD/DO, that you don't have to complete all four years of medical school. I don't know if this is true or not...does anyone know for sure? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I actually heard from someone I live with (who's in a DPT program) that if you have your DPT and decide that you want to become an MD/DO, that you don't have to complete all four years of medical school. I don't know if this is true or not...does anyone know for sure? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

False....no shortcuts for the MD.

 

[freddydpt]

I actually heard from someone I live with (who's in a DPT program) that if you have your DPT and decide that you want to become an MD/DO, that you don't have to complete all four years of medical school. I don't know if this is true or not...does anyone know for sure? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

That's absolute BS... there are no requirements met in PT school that any medical school will recognize. With that said, your efforts during Neuroscience, Anatomy, Neurology, Musculoskeletal medicine, and even Cardiopulm will be greatly reduced because you'll know >75% of it.

 

[PT2RN2CRNA]

I have been a PT for 7 years and do enjoy my profession but I am planning to apply to MD/DO schools. Any successful converts would like to share their experiences from application process to job satisfaction? I did search on sdn for any previous posts but couldn't find any. If you know of one please direct me. Thank you.

I practiced PT full time from 1996-1999 then got laid off when the Balance Budget Act was implemented. Since I was in the US with only a work visa, I was deportable (no work=vod visa) and had to change my visa to student status. I checked out med schools but they all required me to repeat my undergrad. NO WAY! Didn't want to waste my 5 year BSPT so I went to get an ADN-RN degree, then worked in ICU then got my MS Nurse Anesthesia in 2005. Took a huge pay cut working as an RN but got a big salary increase as a CRNA. I have 2 jobs...a full time job where I practice anesthesia at a teaching hospital and a nice part-time gig I share with 2 opthalmologists in town where we stricly do cataract surgeries and I get to bill my anesthesia services on my own. Its definitely not as time consuming as an MD education but the financial reward is there. Nurse anesthesia is the highest paid nursing specialty....reports published said they get npaid more than FP, int med and pediatrics. And if you happen to get a nice gig in a pvt ambulatory surgery center, you can even double your earnings to an easy 300K/year!
I have gone back to school though to get my Doctor of Science degree in PT just to stay ahead of my game. I didn't want to waste my original degreel. I loved it when I worked as a PT...didn't really plan to leave the profession...just kind of pushed into it by life circumstances. I know the advanced academic doctorate will open new opportunities for me later on in life.

 

[PT2RN2CRNA]

No one mentioned becoming a nurse alternatively? Interesting....
I am a DO to PT convert. For all of the above mentioned reasons, and medical school wasn't for me. Doctoring wasn't for me. Although, full-time PT isn't for me either. I will start a PhD program in PT this summer, and look forward to teaching in a PT program in 4 years. Happiness is my primary concern, and I have yet to meet a professor with valid stressors.
If I could do it all over again, I would become a nurse and retire at 35

I practiced PT full time from 1996-1999 then got laid off when the Balance Budget Act was implemented. Since I was in the US with only a work visa, I was deportable (no work=void visa) and had to change my visa to student status. I checked out med schools but they all required me to repeat my undergrad. NO WAY! Didn't want to waste my 5 year BSPT so I went to get an ADN-RN degree, then worked in ICU then got my MS Nurse Anesthesia in 2005. Took a huge pay cut working as an RN but got a big salary increase as a CRNA. I have 2 jobs...a full time job where I practice anesthesia at a teaching hospital and a nice part-time gig I share with 2 opthalmologists in town where we stricly do cataract surgeries and I get to bill my anesthesia services on my own. Its definitely not as time consuming as an MD education but the financial reward is there. Nurse anesthesia is the highest paid nursing specialty....reports published said they get npaid more than FP, int med and pediatrics. And if you happen to get a nice gig in a pvt ambulatory surgery center, you can even double your earnings to an easy 300K/year!
I have gone back to school though to get my Doctor of Science degree in PT just to stay ahead of my game. I didn't want to waste my original degree. I loved it when I worked as a PT...didn't really plan to leave the profession...just kind of pushed into it by life circumstances. I know the advanced academic doctorate will open new opportunities for me later on in life.

 

[FLsurferDPT]

.

 

[jbizzle]

I'll be 23 when I get my PT degree with hardly any debt. (i'm going the MPT route). I had good enough grades to get into medical school right away but really liked PT and put all my eggs into that basket. Do you think it would be a good idea to go to medical school (for financial security) or do a PhD program (to become a professor)? I figure since I'm young I want to do my schooling now before my brain stops working

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I worked fulltime since sophmore year at $12/hr, 40 hrs a week. Even though a PT salary is more than I have ever had, Im not getting into PT for the financial security. Im getting into PT because I really like it. I fell in love with it after volunteering. But we'll see in ten years if I still like it (reading these post above are getting me down)...in my opinion, the money will be there. I was told early in college by my parents when it came time to choose a major to follow what would make me happy, not because it makes a lot of money. I was pre-pharm (this was before I saw all the pre-reqs I had to take) because I was thinking just that, but they told me I was only after it because of the money and they were right.

If you could've gone to med school right away you should've gone right away if that's what you wanted to do... If you really like PT then I suggest you get a PhD in PT so you can teach after you're done practicing PT (whether you get burned out or can't do it anymore physically). This is what I would like to do, but I have to get into a program first.

 

[GAgrl]

I am applying MD this year (got my DPT in 2007 and have been practicing in rehab since). I feel like PTs are kind of the redheaded step child of the medical field. I have 3 years of graduate education (all year round) including clinical experience for which we have to pay tuition to perform free work. 110K of loans after undergrad and then I barely make 60K a year. No autonomy in practice and admin always on your back about productivity. Then to top it off patients often think that PT is an associates degree (ie how long have you been out of highschool?). I love science especially anatomy and physiology and I hate that many of my co-workers practice rehab with the mentality of a mindless worker bee ( ie every single person who has a knee related diagnosis gets the same exercise program). I know that you will have both thoughtful and thoughtless practitioners in any profession but for the amount of education that PTs have it surprises me the amount of cookbook treatment that goes on. It seems that PTs are over educated, underpaid, and overworked. With those circumstances I might as well get some autonomy, respect, and upward mobility that comes with MD. I dont hate PT but it is physically exhausting and the cost benefit ratio is all off. Good luck everyone and my advice is do NOT pursue PT unless you are sure you want to practice in this profession for a long time. The degree is expensive and time consuming to use as a means to MD and you would be better served with an MPH or if you are in undergrad a BSN or better yet go straight for MD (wish I did).

 

[jbizzle]

This thread is a downer. I thought that there is no way anybody can change my mind about going into PT, but how quickly that can change.

Are there any Physical Therapist out there that have been working for a while now and still love their career?

 

[FLsurferDPT]

.

 

[GAgrl]

Agree with some of what FLsurferDPT said, but most programs are switching to DPT and MPT wont be available for much longer (I cant remember but I think like 211/259 programs have already switched) so you are forced to get a longer and more expensive degree but you will make the same money. I think unless you are independently wealthy you need to avoid private schools at all costs, obviously I made that mistake. I thought that since the school I attended was rated number 3 in the country at the time I would some how have a leg up getting a good job (in reality no one cares where you graduate from). To address the long work hours it depends on what field you choose in both PT and MD. All of the PTs I know that make 70K or more work 60 to 80 hrs a week (clinic directors, own their own practice, managers, or they have like 20+years of experience), if you want to work 40 hrs a week and not take your work home you can not expect to make over 55 or 60 a year. This is the same with MD, if you want to make a huge amount of money you will get the stress and overtime, but if you choose your specialty carefully or go into private practice you can work as much or as little as you would like. Its all about priorities. My brother is an oncologist in private practice and he doesn't work holidays, and is home in time for dinner every night (on call about 1 weekend a month). If you go into emergency medicine of course you will have stress and a lot of overnight shifts and on call duty. I am not trying to put down PT as a career, it can be very rewarding and it is true that you get to know your patients better than you might as an MD, BUT this is also changing. In most out patient PT practices you are expected to see about 3 patients an hour so that only averages out to about 20 min of one on one time (similar to the 15 minutes that MDs get). The patient may be in your gym for an hour but so are 3 other patients. I think the field of PT is changing and the perception has not, I just don't want perspective PT students to be shocked upon graduation. In short my top 3 complaints: 1) the time and cost of education are increasing disproportionately to the pay 2) the productivity expectations continue to rise (one on one time with patient is decreasing, this is the only way for a practice to stay afloat) 3) autonomy is non-existant in practice (even if in theory some states are fighting for direct access, this is not how it is. Currently in practice you basically need to ask permission to do anything with a patient even though you have a doctorate). Oh and that whole thing about nurses doing the "dirty work" at the hospital that I work at PTs are expected to help shower patients, and if they have a bowel accident during your session if you are not doubled you are expected to get them back in bed and clean them up. You will wipe butts as a PT in a hospital). Anyway just to be fair Ill list the top 3 things I like about PT 1) Helping people increase their independence is rewarding and you do get to see improvements over time. There is nothing more fun than helping someone take their first steps after they have been told they may never walk again. 2) relatively little paper work compared to MD in hospital setting 3) Love my co-workers (PTs I work with are down to earth good people who are not in it for the money) but I think this one is sort of specific to my job (cant be generalized). OK then after that novel Ill post, Ill be happy to answer specific questions. Im not trying to discourage anyone I just want people to be realistic.

 

[jbizzle]

Like I said so many times. IF i get accepted it will probably be to a private school which will be 100K+ for a DPT, which I cant control. And I did help in cleaning a patient when they had an accident when I was volunteering acute rehab at the hospital so the "dirty work" I dont mind. I think what FLsurfer meant was not as often as nurses would we have to do the dirty work.

Last night I was talking to my parents and they know how much I want to get into PT school. And when I told them that if I dont get in this time I really dont care anymore, and they were like What? What's gotten into you? LOL. And I told them about this post haha.

So the stress that I had about getting into PT school this time around completely went away after reading this thread. After I esubmit on PTCAS im going to just forget about it and If I get in I get in. If I dont then I dont, im fine with that.

 

[mtm34]

Gagirl- your honesty is greatly appreciated but I'm gonna have to go out on a limb and say you just don't really have a good gig right now.... in all professions there are good and bad jobs and it sounds like you got into a hospital that is not what your looking for quality and monetarily speaking but I do know there are many PT jobs out there that pay far more than you are stating and will give you the autonomy you deserve. Check out ptjobs.com or just search craigslist- they are out there. Im a PT student now and I know many students who have graduated with their DPT over the past few years that have gotten some really cool jobs, starting out in the 70s-80s all around pa,ny,md,ct, ect. working in the setting of their choice.

 

[GAgrl]

I dont know if I have a "good gig" or not but I do work at one of the top 10 rehab hospitals in the entire country. Maybe it is regional or just to do with the setting, but Im just not seeing those cool 70-90K jobs with autonomy. I have several classmates who work in sportsmedicine and are clinic directors and they do make about that much but they are STRESSED and have little or no freetime. Like I said maybe its just the southeast and midwest. I dont know any PTs in the northeast or west coast so maybe its different there..... Good luck yall = )

 

[FLsurferDPT]

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[helloteenah]

Yes, can we find any older, experienced therapists who like their jobs?

 

[seminolefish]

this thread makes me laugh... SDN is okay but i just have to take it with a grain of salt. ive met some really cool therapists on here though.

 

[jesspt]

Of course there are more experienced PTs who have been working for several years and still love their job. I would count myself among that number. However, they are unlikely to post here, as this is primarily a forum for prospective students, rather than already established professionals.

I have worked in outpatient orthopaedic physical therapy for over twelve years and continue to find my job engaging and enjoyable. I manage to work around 45 hours a week and have a salary that is greater than what has been stated by some recent posters. My patients primarily come from primary care physicians with a prescriptions for "Evaluation and Treatment" so I get a fair amount of autonomy regarding patient examination and development and implimentation of treatment plans. I'm not sure what GA girl is referring to reagrding the need to get "permission" to apply a change to a treatment plan, but that may be due to our differing settings.

Advice (which you can take or leave) to prospective students:

• Try to get some great clinical internships while in PT school. If you can learn from board certified (OCS, SCS, GCS) or fellowship-trained clinicians, you'll be better prepared to "hit the ground running" once you begin working.
• Be a good therapist. I see a regression toward the mean with a lot of physical therapist. Just because your co-workers have become disengaged and practice in fashion that is not recognizable as being grounded in evidence, doesn't mean that you should be. Stay engaged in your profession, commit to continuing to learn, and stay the hell away from some of the fringe, vodoo treatments that are gaining a foothold within our profession such as myofascial release, craniosacral therapy, etc.
• When it comes time for you annual review, be sure to negotiate well for your raise - have examples of patient satisfaction surveys that have been complimentary to you, keep track of your outcomes using patient centered outcome measurement tools such as the Oswestry Disability Index, Neck Disability Index, etc. so you can show that your outcomes are as good, if not better, than your colleagues.
• Market yourself well to your patients - become their physical therapist, just like their PCP is their doctor. They will likely need PT again in the future for something and if you take good care of them, they will return to you. Developing these relationships has always seemed quite rewarding to me.
• market yourself well to your colleagues and manager - become their "go-to" person for difficult clinical cases, evidenced-based treatments, etc.
• Market yourself well to local referral sources - make yourself valuable to them, and you will become quite valuable to your boss.

 

[jbizzle]

and stay the hell away from some of the fringe, vodoo treatments that are gaining a foothold within our profession such as myofascial release, craniosacral therapy, etc.

Oh man!!! Are you talking about the Hollistic approach. Total Motion Release and Primal/Pain Reflex Release??? I have to admit, I volunteered at one clinic and this is what they did. I was skeptical at first but all the patients, every single one of them were very happy they went to this PT. It does work, it really does and its totally different from the others settings ive observed....but like you said, it is voodoo-ish haha.

 

[jesspt]

It does work, it really does and its totally different from the others settings ive observed....but like you said, it is voodoo-ish haha.

Nope. It/they don't work. At least, they haven't been proven to work. Don't fall prey to that line of thinking. And, find an evidenced based practitioner nearby to try to observe/shadow. Then you'll see what garbage that stuff really is.

 

[honker23]

x2 to jesspt
That stuff will hurt our profession in the long run. "It" has no quality RCTs showing "it" should be used. Everyone likes a massage and will feel better for 20 min, but I haven't seen a massage change arthriris in a spine, reset your resting position of your GTO, change the flow of CSF, etc.....

Before someone says it....Exercises won't change arthritis in a spine either, I know. We need to make sure we are giving our patients sound advice and realistic expecatations on self-management of their condition. Not this pipe dream that your sacrum was tilted from falling on your butt as a 4 yr old and this caused a block in the flow of CSF and now is causing your current headache.

 

[MotionDoc]

Not this pipe dream that your sacrum was tilted from falling on your butt as a 4 yr old and this caused a block in the flow of CSF and now is causing your current headache.

hahahahaha

 

[jbizzle]

Oh no!!!! dont get me wrong, I know it was quacky and was just going by what the patients said that it works, but I have observed ortho, sports, acute, and I dont think I will be lured into that hollistic approach. I really like acute anyway, i was only able to observe one wound care patient for about 2 hours one day and it really captured my interest. Its unfortunate that its not very common and was only to see one patient. I wanted to see more of it.