Any ideas as to how I should avoid repaying loans with interest?

[A63. A]

Hello everyone,

I am currently doing my undergrad and I hope to go to medical school after I am done with my undergrad.
Due to religious beliefs, I won't be able to take student loans WITH interest and I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to how I should go around this.

Here are couple of strategies I thought of:

1, Will it work if I get a credit card, take the subsidized loans, and build a good creditcard score (by paying the credit card debt with the subsidized loans that I recieve.) And then once I graduate pay all the debt that I owe with a credit card. This is just paying a loan with a loan but I guess it would give me some time to pay for my creditcard debt.

2, I was also thinking of borrowing money from somebody right after I graduate from medical school to pay my debt, and then paying the person back the same amount that they had lent me. This option is little hard because I don't know who I would borrow from.

I just thought it would be a good idea to hear from someone who knows more of these than I do.

Any suggestions will be much appreciated,

Thanks in advance

---

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[ortnakas]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, medical students are not eligible for subsidized loans. Both the Direct Stafford Loan and the GradPlus loan are unsubsidized and accumulate interest right away.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is an interest-free route (it would be very popular if it existed!) unless you have a very generous benefactor. If religious exemptions exist, they're not widely advertised.

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

Flee the country

 

[Goro]

Don't go to medical school

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

Don't go to medical school

I like my suggestion better

 

[kbeitz]

1. There's not a credit card on earth with lower interest rates than a subsidized, or even unsubsidized student loan over 4 years. There's also no credit card with a mortgage sized credit limit.

2. There's no subsidized loans in graduate school in the US anymore, thanks Obama

3. You could do a medical school scholarship with the army or public service, but there is a different kind of debt with these agreements.

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[Ho0v-man]

Military.

Sell your body on weekends.

Sell your body on the weekends to people in the military (just to be patriotic).


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[A63. A]

Military.

Sell your body on weekends.

Sell your body on the weekends to people in the military (just to be patriotic).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol. On weekends? How would that work

 

[Ho0v-man]

Lol. On weekends? How would that work

I'm just trolling you tbh. In all seriousness, to avoid interest you're going to have to join the military. Even if you get some epic awesome All-star scholarship, you'll still need loans to live off of.

You should talk to someone higher up in your religious organization. Sometimes exceptions can be made. For instance, no one expects a diabetic to fast for several days. All the best.


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[A63. A]

Thank you for all your comments.
does anyone know about the NHSC scholarship? If I take loans for the first two years and I get accepted to the NHSC scholarship in my third year, will they pay the loans that I recieved prior to my acceptance? Or is it likely that I apply to the NHSC the same time that I am applying to medical schools and I get accepted to the scholarship?

 

[jaguar33]

All graduate loans start accruing intrest immediately after accepting them. It looks like your religion will be keeping you out of medical school. Out if curiosity, what religion does this? This rule doesn't seem very helpful to it's followers unless their family is already very wealthy. How would they expect you to start a buisness or buy a home?

 

[deleted480308]

Thank you for all your comments.
does anyone know about the NHSC scholarship? If I take loans for the first two years and I get accepted to the NHSC scholarship in my third year, will they pay the loans that I recieved prior to my acceptance? Or is it likely that I apply to the NHSC the same time that I am applying to medical schools and I get accepted to the scholarship?

I'm confused that you have a religious ban on loans with interest but credit card interest is somehow different...but that's your thing to work out

Free ride via the HPSP or NHSC is your only big option. Some states give free tuition to national guard members but it's very few, you can look into that....

 

[deleted480308]

....and no one is going to loan you money interest free.....that's just not good business

 

[cabinbuilder]

Religious beliefs? Sounds like a scam just trying to get out of paying interest and playing with the rest of world's rules. So you buy a house with cash? And a car with cash? Don't own any credit cards? Furniture with cash? Just totally not logical.

To try to come up with 200,000+ to go to medical school without getting a loan is just naïve and you shouldn't go.

 

[A63. A]

I'm confused that you have a religious ban on loans with interest but credit card interest is somehow different...but that's your thing to work out

Free ride via the HPSP or NHSC is your only big option. Some states give free tuition to national guard members but it's very few, you can look into that....

Thanks for the suggestion. I am looking into the NHSC

 

[A63. A]

Religious beliefs? Sounds like a scam just trying to get out of paying interest and playing with the rest of world's rules. So you buy a house with cash? And a car with cash? Don't own any credit cards? Furniture with cash? Just totally not logical.

To try to come up with 200,000+ to go to medical school without getting a loan is just naïve and you shouldn't go.

No, we don't buy everything with cash. Infact, I bought this device that I am using right now with a credit card loan. You don't pay interest for purchases with credit card unless you pass the time limit.

Thanks for the comment

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Religious beliefs? Sounds like a scam just trying to get out of paying interest and playing with the rest of world's rules. So you buy a house with cash? And a car with cash? Don't own any credit cards? Furniture with cash? Just totally not logical.

To try to come up with 200,000+ to go to medical school without getting a loan is just naïve and you shouldn't go.

Some religions ban interest so people can't take advantage of the poor who might not be able to repay the larger debt.

Last summer I visited a 3rd world country where poor people were offered high interest loans. When they couldn't pay back those loans they were essentially turned into slave laborers. If they hadn't paid off the loans by the time they died then their children would inherit the debt.

Not every one is fortunate enough to be living here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

 

[cabinbuilder]

No, we don't buy everything with cash. Infact, I bought this device that I am using right now with a credit card loan. You don't pay interest for purchases with credit card unless you pass the time limit.

Thanks for the comment

Fair enough but I still think it is naïve to think you would be able to fund medical school otherwise. Sorry, but I have a very hard time letting some "establishment' dictate how I should run my life. To each his own I suppose.

 

[ortnakas]

Some religions ban interest so people can't take advantage of the poor who might not be able to repay the larger debt.

Last summer I visited a 3rd world country where poor people were offered high interest loans. When they couldn't pay back those loans they were essentially turned into slave laborers. If they hadn't paid off the loans by the time they died then their children would inherit the debt.

Not every one is fortunate enough to be living here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Agreed-- OP's not very realistic, but I don't think he or she is trying to pull of a scam. I'm far from an expert, but I know that strict Muslims are forbidden from charging or paying interest, and I wouldn't be shocked if other religions had similar rules. What I don't know if how individuals who follow these rules pay for pretty much any big-ticket item in today's financial environment (cars, school loans, mortgages, et).

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Agreed-- OP's not very realistic, but I don't think he or she is trying to pull of a scam. I'm far from an expert, but I know that strict Muslims are forbidden from charging or paying interest, and I wouldn't be shocked if other religions had similar rules. What I don't know if how individuals who follow these rules pay for pretty much any big-ticket item in today's financial environment (cars, school loans, mortgages, et).

From what I've heard some lenders in other countries will take the amount that would have been interest and apply it to the principle upfront. They break down the massive amount into small payments to make the loan. That way the interest is already put into the loan and it's a fixed amount.

I've never heard of that being done in America though.

 

[Mad Jack]

Thank you for all your comments.
does anyone know about the NHSC scholarship? If I take loans for the first two years and I get accepted to the NHSC scholarship in my third year, will they pay the loans that I recieved prior to my acceptance? Or is it likely that I apply to the NHSC the same time that I am applying to medical schools and I get accepted to the scholarship?

No, they will not forgive your previously incurred debts. You have to sign up from day one if you want to have them take care of things, which requires four years of full-time service in a primary care field in a health care shortage area. The other option, as others have mentioned, is the military. They'll cover everything, but be ready to pay in other ways.

 

[A63. A]

No, they will not forgive your previously incurred debts. You have to sign up from day one if you want to have them take care of things, which requires four years of full-time service in a primary care field in a health care shortage area. The other option, as others have mentioned, is the military. They'll cover everything, but be ready to pay in other ways.

Great idea. But I've heard that (in some schools anyway) they don't accept first-year and second-year students as they are not quite sure about their commitment to the primary care field.

 

[Mad Jack]

Great idea. But I've heard that (in some schools anyway) they don't accept first-year and second-year students as they are not quite sure about their commitment to the primary care field.

It's a highly competitive scholarship, and they tend to prefer people farther along or with strong ties to primary care. I wouldn't bank on it, basically.

 

[Yleio381]

This may not be the religion to which you are referring, but this thread discusses the topic a little under the context of Islam

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ing-for-medical-school.1174986/#post-17240321

 

[TravelingDoc2]

Religious beliefs? Sounds like a scam just trying to get out of paying interest and playing with the rest of world's rules. So you buy a house with cash? And a car with cash? Don't own any credit cards? Furniture with cash? Just totally not logical.

To try to come up with 200,000+ to go to medical school without getting a loan is just naïve and you shouldn't go.

Disrespectful much? I hate to say it but you are naïve as well as my family managed to do all that without loans.

I don't mean to be rude, but I understand how it might be difficult for people born and raised in the United States to think that you need loans to buy a lot of the important stuff. But I will say that my parents/family were all immigrants to this country and they worked harder than anyone else I know. Its just we know how to live way below our means, we save save save a lot, shop at goodwill, spend money only on the necessities and save. I think you get the idea.

OP I am Muslim and in Islam interest is one of the worst sins/habits there is. Unfortunately its hard to get around in the United States. Speak to the leaders in your religion about your situation and they might be able to give you guidance. You will come across many things in Medical School that might go against your faith but you have to think about the goal, which is to heal people. Intentions are major part of this.

That being said, my family is helping me pay for medical school. My immediate family, uncles, cousins, everyone provided their savings and are all living frugally just so that I can pay for medical school and not have to take interest. Of course once I get into residency and beyond I will be paying them back. I recommend that you first ask your family, friends, community leaders, and others to help you. I know there are Jewish organizations that will give you a loan that has no interest but has an added sum to it.

Everyone else don't hate on people's faith, if you don't understand why religions tell people what to do, don't worry about. Mind your own damn business. Worry about yourself don't hate on others.

And just so you know it is very easy to live in the United States without loans!!!!

 

[A63. A]

Disrespectful much? I hate to say it but you are naïve as well as my family managed to do all that without loans.

I don't mean to be rude, but I understand how it might be difficult for people born and raised in the United States to think that you need loans to buy a lot of the important stuff. But I will say that my parents/family were all immigrants to this country and they worked harder than anyone else I know. Its just we know how to live way below our means, we save save save a lot, shop at goodwill, spend money only on the necessities and save. I think you get the idea.

OP I am Muslim and in Islam interest is one of the worst sins/habits there is. Unfortunately its hard to get around in the United States. Speak to the leaders in your religion about your situation and they might be able to give you guidance. You will come across many things in Medical School that might go against your faith but you have to think about the goal, which is to heal people. Intentions are major part of this.

That being said, my family is helping me pay for medical school. My immediate family, uncles, cousins, everyone provided their savings and are all living frugally just so that I can pay for medical school and not have to take interest. Of course once I get into residency and beyond I will be paying them back. I recommend that you first ask your family, friends, community leaders, and others to help you. I know there are Jewish organizations that will give you a loan that has no interest but has an added sum to it.

Everyone else don't hate on people's faith, if you don't understand why religions tell people what to do, don't worry about. Mind your own damn business. Worry about yourself don't hate on others.

And just so you know it is very easy to live in the United States without loans!!!!

Thanks alot for the suggestion. I didn't know about the Jewish interest-free loans; that is what I am going to look into now.
Congratulations to you and your hard-working family.

Salaam

 

[cabinbuilder]

Military.

Sell your body on weekends.

Sell your body on the weekends to people in the military (just to be patriotic).


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Someone else says to sell your body and I'm the one disrespectful? Wow o wow.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Moving to Financial Aid forum

 

[eteshoe]

1. There's not a credit card on earth with lower interest rates than a subsidized, or even unsubsidized student loan over 4 years. There's also no credit card with a mortgage sized credit limit.

2. There's no subsidized loans in graduate school in the US anymore, thanks Obama

3. You could do a medical school scholarship with the army or public service, but there is a different kind of debt with these agreements.

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Isn't that what a black card is for

 

[deleted480308]

Isn't that what a black card is for

You can't get a black card if you need a black card.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Someone else says to sell your body and I'm the one disrespectful? Wow o wow.

It's the oldest profession, and can be considered very respectable in certain circles.

Do you even Firefly, bro?


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[kbeitz]

Disrespectful much? I hate to say it but you are naïve as well as my family managed to do all that without loans

That's great, and I agree that from a professional point of view there shouldn't be discrimination, and at the same time medical school is prohibitively expensive, and applicant limiting.

However, risk adversity would be a limiting factor for most of the people on this forum applying and getting in to medical school. The fact is that it takes guts, sometimes to the degree that you have to undermine your own belief system to get where you want to be. That's why the first couple of posts were what they were.

In that sense, it's disrespectful to take your position on the basis that most people don't have the resources you have, and have taken on a huge risk instead. To have your beliefs and be without that level of support is to call someone else **** out of luck. Also, cabinbuilder is an awesome resource to this forum.

 

[JustPlainBill]

Disrespectful much? I hate to say it but you are naïve as well as my family managed to do all that without loans.

I don't mean to be rude, but I understand how it might be difficult for people born and raised in the United States to think that you need loans to buy a lot of the important stuff. But I will say that my parents/family were all immigrants to this country and they worked harder than anyone else I know. Its just we know how to live way below our means, we save save save a lot, shop at goodwill, spend money only on the necessities and save. I think you get the idea.

Everyone else don't hate on people's faith, if you don't understand why religions tell people what to do, don't worry about. Mind your own damn business. Worry about yourself don't hate on others.

And just so you know it is very easy to live in the United States without loans!!!!

I'm not quite sure how to form my response to your post --- there's a part of me that wants to ignore it for the US bashing tripe that it is -- but there's another part that wants to take you to task for having the gall to spew this trash -- in other words -- if it's so doggone bad here and the people are such *****s, please go back to where you came from if it's so much better -- personally, I feel like I've won the lottery -- born in the US but got to live in interesting places via the government -- Tripoli when King Idris was in power and the Philippines under Marcos in addition to going through Germany, Okinawa, and Japan, and the Azores ---

I find it very interesting that people come here and bash the country and it's people yet people continue to try to get here, even to the point of putting their kids on dangerous train trips in the hope that they'll get into the US system where their standard of living is immediately raised when they come up to the lowest level of US citizens (i.e. welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing, Medicare/Medicaid) --

We can talk about this all day long but recall that some of us on this board, when life handed us lemons, never asked for a government handout when we certainly qualified for one, took several part time jobs to try to make ends meat, lived within our means and retooled ourselves -- opportunities we would have never had in other countries --

So, I'll go now before I really get wound up and risk the ban hammer --

 

[A63. A]

I'm not quite sure how to form my response to your post --- there's a part of me that wants to ignore it for the US bashing tripe that it is -- but there's another part that wants to take you to task for having the gall to spew this trash -- in other words -- if it's so doggone bad here and the people are such *****s, please go back to where you came from if it's so much better -- personally, I feel like I've won the lottery -- born in the US but got to live in interesting places via the government -- Tripoli when King Idris was in power and the Philippines under Marcos in addition to going through Germany, Okinawa, and Japan, and the Azores ---

I find it very interesting that people come here and bash the country and it's people yet people continue to try to get here, even to the point of putting their kids on dangerous train trips in the hope that they'll get into the US system where their standard of living is immediately raised when they come up to the lowest level of US citizens (i.e. welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing, Medicare/Medicaid) --

We can talk about this all day long but recall that some of us on this board, when life handed us lemons, never asked for a government handout when we certainly qualified for one, took several part time jobs to try to make ends meat, lived within our means and retooled ourselves -- opportunities we would have never had in other countries --

So, I'll go now before I really get wound up and risk the ban hammer --

I don't think he meant what you might be thinking he meant. I am sorry to say this but it seems to me that you are missing the point of this discussion -- we are not discussing about politics here; we are just exchanging ideas about how to deal with the student loans in graduate schools.

Thanks for the comment

 

[crazyboi1993]

I am also Muslim, and Im very liberal, I drink and everything, not judging or anything, but that is a very old school belief, that interest is haram, We live in a world where we are surrounded with interest. Its really hard to escape that, I mean not saying you cant do it, but unless you come from a wealthy family, it might be difficult. If I were you I would discuss with your parents, they might be more understanding, I personally dont belief in this whole interest thing. I am muslim, and my parents are very religious!

 

[A63. A]

I am also Muslim, and Im very liberal, I drink and everything, not judging or anything, but that is a very old school belief, that interest is haram, We live in a world where we are surrounded with interest. Its really hard to escape that, I mean not saying you cant do it, but unless you come from a wealthy family, it might be difficult. If I were you I would discuss with your parents, they might be more understanding, I personally dont belief in this whole interest thing. I am muslim, and my parents are very religious!

It is always good idea to talk to the parents.
Thanks

 

[deleted480308]

If it's not too sensitive a question, how is a loan with a fee considered different than a loan with interest? I'm unfamiliar with the belief system and am genuinely curious

 

[DrMidlife]

The religio-legal term is "usury" and it's in the Bible, Talmud and Qur'an. Literalists can't/won't lend or borrow with interest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

 

[RangerBob]

The religio-legal term is "usury" and it's in the Bible, Talmud and Qur'an. Literalists can't/won't lend or borrow with interest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Historically, Christians in Medieval Europe weren't allowed to lend with interest, but were allowed to borrow with interest. The Christian leaders realized that loans were pretty important for economic development but that no one would give interest-free loans--so they allowed Jews to give the loans. I believe Jews were only forbidden from charging interest on loans to other Jews. As a Christian, that sounds that pretty hypocritical (allowing/encouraging someone else to do something you think is sinful), but it worked out pretty well for the Jewish population as they became pretty established in banking and built a lot of wealth. Of course, that built some resentment and didn't help to combat anti-Semitism, but that's a whole other can of worms.

I was not aware that the practice was that common in Muslim societies. But I do think it would be quite hard to finance a medical education without significant federal loans or a very wealthy family. I suppose the best option is for the OP to approach multiple family members for interest-free loans and to minimize costs (live at home, bike to school as much as possible). The military could be another route to consider, if the OP is willing to serve in the military. I don't know much about the NHSC, but I do think you have to go into primary care, correct?

 

[DokterMom]

Hello everyone,

I am currently doing my undergrad and I hope to go to medical school after I am done with my undergrad.
Due to religious beliefs, I won't be able to take student loans WITH interest and I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to how I should go around this.

Here are couple of strategies I thought of:

1, Will it work if I get a credit card, take the subsidized loans, and build a good creditcard score (by paying the credit card debt with the subsidized loans that I recieve.) And then once I graduate pay all the debt that I owe with a credit card. This is just paying a loan with a loan but I guess it would give me some time to pay for my creditcard debt.

2, I was also thinking of borrowing money from somebody right after I graduate from medical school to pay my debt, and then paying the person back the same amount that they had lent me. This option is little hard because I don't know who I would borrow from.

I just thought it would be a good idea to hear from someone who knows more of these than I do.

Any suggestions will be much appreciated,

Thanks in advance

Seems like the possibilities you suggest are really 'technicality workarounds' where you're still paying something akin to interest, but in some other form. Can you provide more technical details on what is and isn't permitted by your religion so we can offer more plausible solutions that still comply?

The first thought that comes to my mind though is some some of crowd-funding within your religious community since this must be a relatively common problem...

 

[DrMidlife]

oh don't forget Shakespeare. This wasn't in the Bible, it was Hamlet: "neither a borrower nor a lender be".

 

[A63. A]

Historically, Christians in Medieval Europe weren't allowed to lend with interest, but were allowed to borrow with interest. The Christian leaders realized that loans were pretty important for economic development but that no one would give interest-free loans--so they allowed Jews to give the loans. I believe Jews were only forbidden from charging interest on loans to other Jews. As a Christian, that sounds that pretty hypocritical (allowing/encouraging someone else to do something you think is sinful), but it worked out pretty well for the Jewish population as they became pretty established in banking and built a lot of wealth. Of course, that built some resentment and didn't help to combat anti-Semitism, but that's a whole other can of worms.

I was not aware that the practice was that common in Muslim societies. But I do think it would be quite hard to finance a medical education without significant federal loans or a very wealthy family. I suppose the best option is for the OP to approach multiple family members for interest-free loans and to minimize costs (live at home, bike to school as much as possible). The military could be another route to consider, if the OP is willing to serve in the military. I don't know much about the NHSC, but I do think you have to go into primary care, correct?

Excellent idea. Thank you

 

[A63. A]

Seems like the possibilities you suggest are really 'technicality workarounds' where you're still paying something akin to interest, but in some other form. Can you provide more technical details on what is and isn't permitted by your religion so we can offer more plausible solutions that still comply?

The first thought that comes to my mind though is some some of crowd-funding within your religious community since this must be a relatively common problem...

Sure. According to my religion, Islam, it is allowed that we borrow or lend a loan but it is prohibited that we borrow/lend a loan with an interest. I tried to find if there is any Islamic banks that would lend me such a loan but I am not able to find one yet. I also looked up the Jew organizations that lend an interest-free loans but most of them don't lend enough that a medical school student can rely on.
As of now, I am looking for a personal loan but it might not be easy to find one.

Thanks for sharing ideas with us

 

[A63. A]

If it's not too sensitive a question, how is a loan with a fee considered different than a loan with interest? I'm unfamiliar with the belief system and am genuinely curious

That is very typical question. As we know, all people are not from the same financial background -- some are rich and some are poor. Some people can only pay the principle and some might even struggle with paying the princible. As a common sense knowledge, everyone who takes loans with interest feels that they are forced to pay the interest amount in their loan and therefore see it unjust when paying off the loan.
Therefore, Islam prohibits borrowing or lending loans. If I am not mistaken, Judiasm and Christianity also don't encourage taking it.

 

[DokterMom]

Would an arrangement that has you repay the loan dollar for dollar (borrow $100,000; repay $100,000), but additionally, perform some service, such as work in a free clinic for XX hours conform to your religious restrictions?

 

[deleted480308]

That is very typical question. As we know, all people are not from the same financial background -- some are rich and some are poor. Some people can only pay the principle and some might even struggle with paying the princible. As a common sense knowledge, everyone who takes loans with interest feels that they are forced to pay the interest amount in their loan and therefore see it unjust when paying off the loan.
Therefore, Islam prohibits borrowing or lending loans. If I am not mistaken, Judiasm and Christianity also don't encourage taking it.

Thanks for the explanation but I'd offer that adults don't view the interest as unjust if they agreed to it up front

 

[A63. A]

Would an arrangement that has you repay the loan dollar for dollar (borrow $100,000; repay $100,000), but additionally, perform some service, such as work in a free clinic for XX hours conform to your religious restrictions?

That would definitely work

 

[DokterMom]

Would an arrangement that has you repay the loan dollar for dollar (borrow $100,000; repay $100,000), but additionally, perform some service, such as work in a free clinic for XX hours conform to your religious restrictions?

That would definitely work

OK, so from there, it's a small step to asking a potential future employer to pay (some portion of what could otherwise be paid to you as wages) your lender. Many employers do something very similar (garnish wages) for child support.

 

[A63. A]

OK, so from there, it's a small step to asking a potential future employer to pay (some portion of what could otherwise be paid to you as wages) your lender. Many employers do something very similar (garnish wages) for child support.

Really smart idea.
So, would I have to look for an employer who would pay my lender (the federal government or whoever) or should I look for an employer who would lend me the money?

 

[DokterMom]

Really smart idea.
So, would I have to look for an employer who would pay my lender (the federal government or whoever) or should I look for an employer who would lend me the money?

I can't imagine asking an employer to loan you the money, but to pay a portion of your wages to your lender would not be significantly different from what is customarily done for court-ordered payments like alimony, spousal support or child support. It's generally an 'administrative/accounting' task really, that barely qualifies as a 'special favor'.