Any Current Canadians at American DO school out there?

[Aloe paleo]

Would you be willing to answer? What are your plans post residency?

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[FutureDoctor5000]

Don't go back to Canada and avoid it like the plague. Terrible place to be a physician. Take the residency and jobs here(in US) and forget that Canada as a place even exists hahah, but honestly tho you prbly make more $$ here

 

[Aloe paleo]

Don't go back to Canada and avoid it like the plague. Terrible place to be a physician. Take the residency and jobs here(in US) and forget that Canada as a place even exists hahah, but honestly tho you prbly make more $$ here

hahahahaha! Are you Canadian?

 

[Aloe paleo]

Don't go back to Canada and avoid it like the plague. Terrible place to be a physician. Take the residency and jobs here(in US) and forget that Canada as a place even exists hahah, but honestly tho you prbly make more $$ here

is it easy to stay in the states and practice?

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

No but i have classmates who are Canadian and I don't think its that hard to practice here as a Canadian who graduated from a US MD/DO school because you won't be considered an "IMG" since your degree is from here, also its prbly much much much easier(from what i've heard) to get a residency here than it is in Canada(Politics, socialism and bad government but thats a whole another thing lol) so as long as you get your residency and get your H1/T1/whatever visa you need you shouldn't have an issue getting a job after residency and then green card and so forth.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Don't go back to Canada and avoid it like the plague. Terrible place to be a physician. Take the residency and jobs here(in US) and forget that Canada as a place even exists hahah, but honestly tho you prbly make more $$ here

Not only is practicing medicine better and easier in Canada, the $ can be greater too.

 

[deleted981412]

lmao futuredoctor500's profile picture checks out

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Better and easier? Get out of here you commie . I can’t imagine that’s even remotely true with no private insurance to bill and government loopholes and not to mention subzero freezing temperatures half the year. Thanks but no thanks

 

[Aloe paleo]

Better and easier? Get out of here you commie . I can’t imagine that’s even remotely true with no private insurance to bill and government loopholes and not to mention subzero freezing temperatures half the year. Thanks but no thanks

Hahahahha

 

[Aloe paleo]

Better and easier? Get out of here you commie . I can’t imagine that’s even remotely true with no private insurance to bill and government loopholes and not to mention subzero freezing temperatures half the year. Thanks but no thanks

Commie LOL but true unfortunately

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Alco_Palco in all seriousness though, do what you desire. I just threw in my 2 cents

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Better and easier? Get out of here you commie . I can’t imagine that’s even remotely true with no private insurance to bill and government loopholes and not to mention subzero freezing temperatures half the year. Thanks but no thanks

Overhead is like 20% vs 50-60% in USA. 99% own their own practice and billing rates are reasonably high. Much better than being a virtual employee to an MBA. And half of USA has the same weather.

 

[Thelonious Chunk]

Not only is practicing medicine better and easier in Canada, the $ can be greater too.

Where is the money greater, and how much greater is it? Can an American grad get hired there?

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Where is the money greater, and how much greater is it? Can an American grad get hired there?

Not by much. It's honestly very close. And yes if you're Canadian lol.

 

[dangEras]

Not only is practicing medicine better and easier in Canada, the $ can be greater too.

Probably the most incorrect post I've seen on sdn.

Here's FM: https://www.cma.ca/sites/default/files/2019-01/family-e.pdf
253k gross collection - 68k overhead - 49k PPP = 146k

Same math for the following: Canadian specialty profiles | Canadian Medical Association
IM: 230k
Anesthesia: 225k
Ortho: 230k
Psych: 157k
Cardio: 328k
Diagnostic rads: 187k

I can go on for every specialty. Being in canada is essentially a 40-50% paycut across the board.

 

[DO2015CA]

Better and easier? Get out of here you commie . I can’t imagine that’s even remotely true with no private insurance to bill and government loopholes and not to mention subzero freezing temperatures half the year. Thanks but no thanks

Probably the wrongest post I've seen on sdn.

It’s true for their primary care because of the overhead spoken about. It’s a little less total grossing but more take home

 

[dangEras]

It’s true for their primary care because of the overhead spoken about. It’s a little less total grossing but more take home

It is not though.. see the direct source posted.

 

[DO2015CA]

It is not though.. see the direct source posted.

Please do maths for me on taxation’s and cost of living differences. Those numbers aren’t enough

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

It is not though.. see the direct source posted.

Stop quoting CMA. They will play with numbers to deflate incomes in order to gauge better negotiation for better rates. Look at the actual percentiles for billings per specialty.

 

[Allosteopath]

I'm surprised nobody is bringing up the value of CAD to USD because at this point, and over a large part of history, you're looking at making 0.75 for every 1 USD. I'm sure this will hurt when you're paying back your USD student loans.

Overall I think it comes down to personal preference, where you want to live and the type of system you want to work for. There are pros and cons to each.

 

[AMEHigh]

Every physician that I’ve known (probably about 10) that has gone from practicing in the US to practice in Canada is very happy with their decision. It’s not always about the direct correlation to salary as money doesn’t always buy happiness. Although, anecdotally the physicians that I’ve spoken with actually do make more money in Canada.

The US healthcare system does have many flaws that make it frustrating to practice in such an environment, but I’m still overall happy with my career in the US. However, if practicing in Canada were an option that I wanted to pursue I would definitely consider it and talk to as many practicing physicians in both countries in my speciality before making a decision.

 

[dangEras]

Stop quoting CMA. They will play with numbers to deflate incomes in order to gauge better negotiation for better rates. Look at the actual percentiles for billings per specialty.

The numbers are nearly identical to CIHI, a non-profit health info org that exists to cut healthcare expenditure in canada (a.k.a overstate physician income and recommend cutting said cost)
https://secure.cihi.ca › Physici...PDF
Physicians in Canada, 2016: Summary Report - CIHI

How about you post your source?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I dont know. Canadian docs told me physician salaries were in essence capped. Once they reached the necessary income threshold, they weren't allowed to work anymore. Many would come to the states to work for a few weeks. This, as told to me by several Canadian docs FWIW.

 

[Allosteopath]

I don't know. Canadian docs told me physician salaries were in essence capped. Once they reached the necessary income threshold, they weren't allowed to work anymore. Many would come to the states to work for a few weeks. This, as told to me by several Canadian docs FWIW.

I think there's a bit more nuance to this, and it really depends on the form of compensation the physicians choose(which often can vary depending on how the province administers healthcare), and for some docs working hard can really increase that salary. In my province, there are even a few family doctors and pediatricians who earned more than 1 million in a calendar year. There's no question they worked hard and likely owned multiple clinics, but they certainly weren't told not to work.

Unless they were talking about tax implications, which are often misunderstood by a large number of people, physicians included. For whatever reason, people seem to think that they will end up taking home a smaller amount of money annually by moving up into the next tax bracket, which isn't true because it's not as if all earnings are taxed at the highest bracket. In reality, you're looking at a stratified system in which: (fake values, because I can't be bothered to look them up)

First 46000 at 15%, Next 25000 at 20%, Next 40000 at 35%, etc


So yes, maybe after making $200,000 their value for their time worked goes down because of an increased tax burden, but it's not capping their earnings either, and eventually, the tax burden reaches a maximum so it won't make a difference!

 

[Taxonomy]

More tax for higher income in Canada, less money if you take int oaccount CAD to USD ratio of 1.23 (it changes every day). However, there is no clear answer. Imho best answer was posted in this thread and no one took notice it seems: it's all about lifestyle preferences, family location, ties, friends, etc. That is what it comes in the end, not just money per se like some mistakenly think.
There are docs on both sides of border who live near border and go to work across the border taking shifts. It's done for more money of course.
However, you need to take into account many differences between Canada and USA. In Canada schools are free and if you have 3-4 kids - you will pay hefty price for a comparable good private school in US. I would also say that Canada in general is much safer place, not only in schools (all this mass shootings in US schools), but also in general, less crime, less guns (vastly different gun laws in Canada) etc. Besides for someone who is Canadian and has family and friends there, it makes sense to try to stay in Canada and not stress family with moving to another country (USA). For many docs that alone is not worth staying in US.
On the other hand prices are cheaper in general in USA, gas is cheaper, food is cheaper etc. You know too many factors at play here to list them all, but like I said it all comes to what lifestyle suits more to each individual. Money is just one factor and it's not always as straightforward if you take into account other things.

 

[AMEHigh]

More tax for higher income in Canada, less money if you take int oaccount CAD to USD ratio of 1.23 (it changes every day). However, there is no clear answer. Imho best answer was posted in this thread and no one took notice it seems: it's all about lifestyle preferences, family location, ties, friends, etc. That is what it comes in the end, not just money per se like some mistakenly think.
There are docs on both sides of border who live near border and go to work across the border taking shifts. It's done for more money of course.
However, you need to take into account many differences between Canada and USA. In Canada schools are free and if you have 3-4 kids - you will pay hefty price for a comparable good private school in US. I would also say that Canada in general is much safer place, not only in schools (all this mass shootings in US schools), but also in general, less crime, less guns (vastly different gun laws in Canada) etc. Besides for someone who is Canadian and has family and friends there, it makes sense to try to stay in Canada and not stress family with moving to another country (USA). For many docs that alone is not worth staying in US.
On the other hand prices are cheaper in general in USA, gas is cheaper, food is cheaper etc. You know too many factors at play here to list them all, but like I said it all comes to what lifestyle suits more to each individual. Money is just one factor and it's not always as straightforward if you take into account other things.

Yes very well said.
Let’s also not forget about maternity/Family leave benefits in Canada. I know some physicians who have gone back to work 3 weeks after giving birth :/