'Anesthesiologist trashes sedated patient — and it ends up costing her'

[Kaustikos]

what about the jerk who works at my stop and shop supermarket? or at mcdonalds? those rude cashiers? can i sue them too for "being jerks?" after all, i am a customer and i cannot be treated in such a way. your argument makes no sense. the entire new york city would sue itself out of existence. everyone is rude here (and especially the russians).

Or...
Cops, State Troopers, Firemen... I guess no ones worked ED with the cops bringing in the prison inmates or homeless people. They're supposed to serve and protect.
(mind you, I don't judge nor give two ****s. I like cops).
This is more to reinforce that there are professionals who get away with this every day. And guess what? Recording conversations with cops is not admissible in court.

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[WingedOx]

how many patients have you met so far? 2?
keep that holier than thou attitude in pre-allo
the main reasons for what makes medicine tough are 1) dumb rules 2) annoying patients

also, it was behind a closed door. the guy was obviously fishing for a payout

Not sure about the last line, but other than that, he's not wrong. I'm not the only person to ever privately refer to a patient as an ass*, but this is a case of the gasser not having her **** together.

*and much like @Winged Scapula I've gotten myself into some obnoxious situations because of it.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

how many patients have you met so far? 2?
keep that holier than thou attitude in pre-allo
the main reasons for what makes medicine tough are 1) dumb rules 2) annoying patients

also, it was behind a closed door. the guy was obviously fishing for a payout

Grow up.

You can say whatever you want when you're in the break room. Trash talking while actively treating a patient is foolish. There's a time and a place to vent your frustrations.

 

[Doudline]

This is more to reinforce that there are professionals who get away with this every day. And guess what? Recording conversations with cops is not admissible in court.

Yes it is. There are multiple precedents - google it.

 

[NontradCA]

how many patients have you met so far? 2?
keep that holier than thou attitude in pre-allo
the main reasons for what makes medicine tough are 1) dumb rules 2) annoying patients

also, it was behind a closed door. the guy was obviously fishing for a payout

And this is the attitude of SDN: The patient owes you something. What a load of BS. How pretentious can some of you be. One jackass in this thread even went as far as saying the PTs offense in this case could be equated to how a patient treats a physician. Let me know when doctors start paying patients to perform invasive procedures on them.

You guys are a bunch of clowns.

 

[Rogert]

And this is the attitude of SDN: The patient owes you something. What a load of BS. How pretentious can some of you be. One jackass in this thread even went as far as saying the PTs offense in this case could be equated to how a patient treats a physician. Let me know when doctors start paying patients to perform invasive procedures on them.

You guys are a bunch of clowns.

Actual picture of an SDN meet up:

 

[Psai]

Grow up.

You can say whatever you want when you're at home or out to lunch with your work buddies. Trash talking while actively treating a patient is unacceptable. There's a time and a place to vent your frustrations.

Let me know when you've seen your first OR, then we'll talk

 

[jl lin]

Totally not related to this thread, but can anyone spot SouthernSurgeon $500,000?

Ah, more of the idiotic hating. Sorry; but it doesn't matter that the patient had his phone on record. All procedures and such should be videotaped w/ patients' consent. If you are doing and saying the right things, there should be no worries. People should always function as if they are under the view of a camera; b/c in more situations than you may realize in a hospital or certain organizations, you might be surprised to find out that you are. IT's like using computers in the hospital, you need to realize that every keystroke can be traced. If you are doing the right things; you should not have to worry. If you are downloading porn on a hospital computer network; yea, you are gonna hear about it--and you should. In fact just about every organization I know of monitors everything on computers. There is nothing wrong with monitoring professional actions.

Do the right thing. Speak respectfully and carefully and there shouldn't be a problem.

The ethics alone here stinks to high heaven--or the lack thereof I should say. Holy Mother of God, what is wrong with people? Think of it like this. If it were your mother, father, husband, wife, child, close friend, OR YOU, seriously, how would you feel? Getting caught shouldn't be the issue. IT's the attitude and behavior that transpired in the first place.

Seriously, are there any people here sitting on adcoms that would be OK to hear this sort of thing coming from potential medical students? If you shouldn't hear it from med school applicants, why in the hell should you hear it from interns, residents, fellows, or HOLY COW, attendings?

I"m not saying she should lose her license necessarily; but she should be directed to get some help for burn out or some other kind of psychological issues --or sensitivity training. I have to tell you, as a nurse if I had heard that, I would have been beyond disgusted. OF course if I complained, the group would have protected her, and the hospital as well. This kind of insensitivity can also be an indicator of future problems w/ this person's practice that may indeed affect her safety and vigilance in practice in the future. It's like a warning sign to me. I hope she gets the help/support she needs, and I wish it didn't take the pain of dollars and cents to get people to just to the right damn thing in the first place.

 

[Psai]

Ah, more of the idiotic hating. Sorry; but it doesn't matter that the patient had his phone on record. All procedures and such should be videotaped w/ patients' consent. If you are doing and saying the right things, there should be no worries. People should always function as if they are under the view of a camera; b/c in more situations than you may realize in a hospital or certain organizations, you might be surprised to find out that you are. IT's like using computers in the hospital, you need to realize that every keystroke can be traced. If you are doing the right things; you should worry. If you are downloading porn on a hospital computer network; yea, you are gonna hear about it--and you should. In fact just about every organization I know of monitors everything on computers. There is nothing wrong with monitoring professional actions.

Do the right thing. Speak respectfully and carefully and there shouldn't be a problem.

The ethics alone here stinks to high heaven--or the lack thereof I should say. Holy Mother of God, what is wrong with people? Think of it like this. If it were your mother, father, husband, wife, child, close friend, OR YOU, seriously, how would you feel? Getting caught shouldn't be the issue. IT's the attitude and behavior that transpired in the first place.

Seriously, are there any people here sitting on adcoms that would be OK to here this sort of thing coming from potential medical students? If you shouldn't hear it from med school applicants, why in the hell should you hear it from interns, residents, fellows, or HOLY COW, attendings?

I"m not saying she should lose her license necessarily; but she should be directed to get some help for burn out or some other kind of psychological issues --or sensitivity training. I have to tell you, as a nurse if I had heard that, I would have been beyond disgusted. OF course if I complained, the group would have protected her, and the hospital as well. This kind of insensitivity can also be an indicator of future problems w/ this person's practice that may indeed affect her safety and vigilance in practice in the future. It's like a warning sign to me. I hope she gets the help/support she needs, and I wish it didn't take the pain of dollars and cents to get people to just to the right damn thing in the first place.

This is exactly the kind of nurse that makes hospitals such a pain to work in
Attitude of moral superiority with impressions of being a "patient advocate" and no hesitation to report nonsense to waste people's time with "sensitivity training"
This isn't 1984, we don't need to be monitored 24/7 to prevent thoughtcrime

 

[touchpause13]

This is exactly the kind of nurse that makes hospitals such a pain to work in
Attitude of moral superiority with impressions of being a "patient advocate" and no hesitation to report nonsense to waste people's time with "sensitivity training"
This isn't 1984, we don't need to be monitored 24/7 to prevent thoughtcrime

Actually laughing. This in no way meets the criteria of a thought crime. She talked **** about a patient while the patient was in a vulnerable position to other people.

Is it really that hard to just not act like a jackwad?

 

[Doctor Bob]

If you shouldn't hear it from med school applicants, why in the hell should you hear it from interns, residents, fellows, or HOLY COW, attendings?

Because we are human. We are not perfect, we make mistakes. Because of the line of work we are in, sometimes people die because of mistakes we make. But we can still be silly judgemental jackwads who like to talk smack and impress our friends and coworkers. People can be nice people and still say bad things.

What bothers me is not what people say, it's what people do.
If you talk about patients behind their back, but still provide exemplary care... I'm fine with that.
If, as in this case, there is some question as to the veracity of what they put into the medical record, then that is problematic. The silly name calling is just that. Silly.

 

[Psai]

Actually laughing. This in no way meets the criteria of a thought crime. She talked **** about a patient while the patient was in a vulnerable position to other people.

Is it really that hard to just not act like a jackwad?

You've never talked trash about anyone? Ever?
Never made a silly joke?
Never said anything that someone could have been offended by?

 

[WingedOx]

You've never talked trash about anyone? Ever?
Never made a silly joke?
Never said anything that someone could have been offended by?

Sure, and if you get busted for it, that's on you to man up and take the consequences of said trash talk...whatever they happen to be.

Someone whose only clinical experience is blocks of 6 weeks holding retractors while getting pimped probably shouldn't be talking down to others about the vast clinical realities of being a physician.

 

[Psai]

Sure, and if you get busted for it, that's on you to man up and take the consequences of said trash talk...whatever they happen to be.

Someone whose only clinical experience is blocks of 6 weeks holding retractors while getting pimped probably shouldn't be talking down to others about the vast clinical realities of being a physician.

Heard plenty of stuff during those 6 week blocks. hands were full but ears were open
Didn't say anything about clinical realities of being a physician but thanks for the advice

 

[WingedOx]

Heard plenty of stuff during those 6 week blocks. hands were full but ears were open

Sure, and like I said, I'm not immune to doing it either. But I'm not pretending it's a virtue when I do it. If I get overheard by the wrong person, I'm 100% at fault.

 

[Psai]

no one is calling it a virtue but that doesn't mean that you should crucify someone who happened to find themselves in the crosshairs for doing something that almost everyone does

people seem to be looking for something to be offended about. makes them feel special for some reason. people will take words out of context in their pursuit of persecution

 

[touchpause13]

You've never talked trash about anyone? Ever?
Never made a silly joke?
Never said anything that someone could have been offended by?

Of course I have, multiple times. It just wasn't someone that I was responsible for. And whenever I've gotten called on my **** I owned up to it, and didn't blame it on "thought crimes" it's this new thing called personal responsibility.

 

[URMD]

Because we are human. We are not perfect, we make mistakes. Because of the line of work we are in, sometimes people die because of mistakes we make. But we can still be silly judgemental jackwads who like to talk smack and impress our friends and coworkers. People can be nice people and still say bad things.

What bothers me is not what people say, it's what people do.
If you talk about patients behind their back, but still provide exemplary care... I'm fine with that.
If, as in this case, there is some question as to the veracity of what they put into the medical record, then that is problematic. The silly name calling is just that. Silly.

no one is calling it a virtue but that doesn't mean that you should crucify someone who happened to find themselves in the crosshairs for doing something that almost everyone does

This.

 

[Psai]

Of course I have, multiple times. It just wasn't someone that I was responsible for. And whenever I've gotten called on my **** I owned up to it, and didn't blame it on "thought crimes" it's this new thing called personal responsibility.

by getting called out and personal responsibility you mean having to go through a lengthy, stressful legal process and a $500,000 payout at the end?

 

[touchpause13]

by getting called out and personal responsibility you mean having to go through a lengthy, stressful legal process and a $500,000 payout at the end?

I mean it sucks, it's not like I don't have sympathy for her, but them's the breaks

I think this is more of a case of play stupid games win stupid prizes. We all know you shouldn't do that, and she got caught

 

[zero0]

BREAKING NEWS

This just in: doctors can be scumbags just like everyone else and when they fart it smells.

 

[Donald Juan]

I mean it sucks, it's not like I don't have sympathy for her, but them's the breaks

I think this is more of a case of play stupid games win stupid prizes. We all know you shouldn't do that, and she got caught

Look, you're right that this person should have to pay the consequences. The patient has the right to complain to hospital administration, give the recording to every news outlet they can find so that it looks bad enough on the hospital that they actually take action.

However, the breaks shouldn't be a legal system that gives 500,000 restitution to someone because their feelings got hurt, or a legal system that imposes 500,000 penalties to doctors to teach them a lesson about not trash talking behind someones back.

 

[WingedOx]

no one is calling it a virtue but that doesn't mean that you should crucify someone who happened to find themselves in the crosshairs for doing something that almost everyone does

people seem to be looking for something to be offended about. makes them feel special for some reason. people will take words out of context in their pursuit of persecution

Almost everyone will privately call a patient an a-hole when said patient is being an a-hole (or "dingus" as SDN likes to sensor it). But this was the anesthesiologist showing a failure to act like a grown-up in a professional setting. Infantile behavior is infantile behavior regardless of the frequency of its occurrence. And it's always worth an eye roll the number of physicians who seem proud of the fact they can't keep their emotions in check around difficult patients. Difficult patients are a reality of the job. Get over it, do your job, and move on with your life. Acting like an infant doesn't make them go away.

For every "I wouldn't care if my doc talked sh-t about me as long as I got good care" I read on here... sorry but that's not how medical malpractice suits work in real life. Never has been that way, never will be. You gotta deal with the world as it is, not as you want it to be. And the reality is, failure to STFU in certain situations has consequences if you're overheard by the wrong people. The Anesthesiologist played a high risk, no reward game and lost. Sucks to be her. (or more realistically, sucks for her insurance company that will pay out) I feel the same way about the kid I witnessed last summer getting pulled over for texting and driving by a foot patrol cop. Everyone does it. Doesn't mean doing it can't bite you in the ass if you get caught.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

All procedures and such should be videotaped w/ patients' consent.

I agree with the gist of the rest of your post, but I can't let this part slide. Absolutely no way should "all procedures and such" be videotaped, regardless of whether the patient wants it or not. There are very very few good outcomes that can come of this, and a bajillion bad ones.

Present case notwithstanding, the only times this usually comes up in anesthesia are OB-related things like C-sections (understandable, I guess) and labor epidurals (why??). You'd better believe someone asking to videotape a procedure (the answer and hospital policy is always "no") sends all kinds of warning flags up.

I've had it once or twice where people have asked to "take my picture" with them during my pre-op visit/talk and then hang on to the phone a little too long, making me suspicious that they were recording something. You'd better believe I made sure to warn those people about the risk of death, dismemberment, permanent brain damage, and excessive flatulence as anesthesia risks for their mole removal.

Also, read somewhere that plaintiff was a lawyer. Totally reeks of a setup. I'm not sympathetic at all to the anesthesiologist because it was totally out-of-bounds for professional behavior, but barring proof that her actions were negligent, that the patient suffered harm, and that her negligent actions directly led to said harm, then the malpractice part of it is bogus. And "emotional distress" doesn't count, unless he ends up seeing a psychiatrist, has PTSD, starts on meds, and has to give up his career. And if he is a lawyer, I'm guessing homey ain't giving up his day job for $200K. Something tells me he'll power through and make it back to work.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Look, you're right that this person should have to pay the consequences. The patient has the right to complain to hospital administration, give the recording to every news outlet they can find so that it looks bad enough on the hospital that they actually take action.

However, the breaks shouldn't be a legal system that gives 500,000 restitution to someone because their feelings got hurt, or a legal system that imposes 500,000 penalties to doctors to teach them a lesson about not trash talking behind someones back.

There was also a HIPAA violation, the falsification of the records, and some serious scrutinizing of the man's penis that wasn't medically neccessary cited in one of the court documents floating around. That's more than trash talking.

 

[operaman]

I'm not sure what bothers me more: this woman's taped comments or the number of people here jumping to her defense. I found her taped comments to be shameful and something that will only add to public distrust of physicians. Rather than defend her actions as something many people do, perhaps we should consider whether or not it's ever appropriate to say such things about our patients, especially in their presence. It certainly meets the legal standard of malpractice, though one could argue whether the amounts awarded were in line with what happened. Unfortunately, a smaller verdict probably wouldn't have had the same impact on future behavior. This incident has gotten a lot of media attention and given the award amounts will likely impact policy going forward, especially in Virginia where it occurred.

I don't sense that this patient intended for this to happen, but I would bet anything that every litigious patient out there will start recording their procedures. Food for thought for all of us.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I agree with the gist of the rest of your post, but I can't let this part slide. Absolutely no way should "all procedures and such" be videotaped, regardless of whether the patient wants it or not. There are very very few good outcomes that can come of this, and a bajillion bad ones.

Present case notwithstanding, the only times this usually comes up in anesthesia are OB-related things like C-sections (understandable, I guess) and labor epidurals (why??). You'd better believe someone asking to videotape a procedure (the answer and hospital policy is always "no") sends all kinds of warning flags up.

I've had it once or twice where people have asked to "take my picture" with them during my pre-op visit/talk and then hang on to the phone a little too long, making me suspicious that they were recording something. You'd better believe I made sure to warn those people about the risk of death, dismemberment, permanent brain damage, and excessive flatulence as anesthesia risks for their mole removal.

Also, read somewhere that plaintiff was a lawyer. Totally reeks of a setup. I'm not sympathetic at all to the anesthesiologist because it was totally out-of-bounds for professional behavior, but barring proof that her actions were negligent, that the patient suffered harm, and that her negligent actions directly led to said harm, then the malpractice part of it is bogus. And "emotional distress" doesn't count, unless he ends up seeing a psychiatrist, has PTSD, starts on meds, and has to give up his career. And if he is a lawyer, I'm guessing homey ain't giving up his day job for $200K. Something tells me he'll power through and make it back to work.

The document noted that he did start seeing a psychiatrist, started on meds, and met with his provider and they discussed this situation and whether or not he got an adequate colonoscopy. The provider was concerned they didn't go far enough and suggested having the procedure repeated elsewhere. Being too uncomfortable to get more medical care is not a minor consequence.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I think it would be rather interesting to see if there's any correlation between peoples views of this case and how much experience they have as a vulnerable patient on a procedure table.

 

[WingedOx]

I think it would be rather interesting to see if there's any correlation between peoples views of this case and how much experience they have as a vulnerable patient on a procedure table.

Honestly I'd like to correlated with amount of training experience. Tantrums like the one here are the type of thing that should be extinguished by the end of residency.

 

[md4dawin]

TL;DR but it's interesting to note the similarities between recent cases of videotaped police brutality (and the massive consequential uproar) and this OR case. Both cops/doctors in a position of power as perceived by the public, treading the line of un-professionalism and blatant abuse.

 

[charmiedermie]

And this is the attitude of SDN: The patient owes you something. What a load of BS. How pretentious can some of you be. One jackass in this thread even went as far as saying the PTs offense in this case could be equated to how a patient treats a physician. Let me know when doctors start paying patients to perform invasive procedures on them.

You guys are a bunch of clowns.

I would really like to know if it wasn't just a colonoscopy, but a surgery to remove something very serious, if they would feel the same way with those things being said to them or someone like their mother. Or should they just be honored to be in the doctor's presence.

Honestly I'd like to correlated with amount of training experience. Tantrums like the one here are the type of thing that should be extinguished by the end of residency.

I would think the ego and entitlement get worse.

 

[zero0]

I would think the ego and entitlement get worse.

Seems more likely. Elitism is pretty strong in medicine. Doctors get too wrapped up in the fact that they're smarter, more hard-working, and ambitious than most people, so they fall to their own hubris.

 

[pd1112]

Seems more likely. Elitism is pretty strong in medicine. Doctors get too wrapped up in the fact that they're smarter, more hard-working, and ambitious than most people, so they fall to their own hubris.

I don't think it's elitism as much as years of suppressed bitterness & frustration from being emotionally & mentally driven into the ground over & over again.

 

[sliceofbread136]

no one is calling it a virtue but that doesn't mean that you should crucify someone who happened to find themselves in the crosshairs for doing something that almost everyone does

people seem to be looking for something to be offended about. makes them feel special for some reason. people will take words out of context in their pursuit of persecution

What they did went beyond simple trash talking, to a point that was highly inappropriate and unprofessional. Also there is a time and a place to do your venting, and it is not when you have a vulnerable patient in your care.

I don't really see how you can think the physician isn't in the wrong here.

 

[WingedOx]

I don't think it's elitism as much as years of suppressed bitterness & frustration from being emotionally & mentally driven into the ground over & over again.

If you've been doing this for decades and still can't get over yourself enough to tolerate an ass of a patient, your problems aren't external.

 

[zero0]

I don't think it's elitism as much as years of suppressed bitterness & frustration from being emotionally & mentally driven into the ground over & over again.

And then coming out on the other side overworked, underpaid, and unappreciated.... Yeah, I could see that too

 

[pd1112]

If you've been doing this for decades and still can't get over yourself enough to tolerate an ass of a patient, your problems aren't external.

Not saying it's right and not defending the doc in this case or any similar case. That's just part of why I think it occurs as opposed to simple elitism. For the most part we all "make it" through the training, but some will show "side effects" in one way or another - arrogance, intolerance, short temper, etc.

 

[oldanddone]

Or...
Cops, State Troopers, Firemen... I guess no ones worked ED with the cops bringing in the prison inmates or homeless people. They're supposed to serve and protect.
(mind you, I don't judge nor give two ****s. I like cops).
This is more to reinforce that there are professionals who get away with this every day. And guess what? Recording conversations with cops is not admissible in court.

Except cops are about to have to wear cameras

 

[jl lin]

If you've been doing this for decades and still can't get over yourself enough to tolerate an ass of a patient, your problems aren't external.

Absolutely.

 

[jl lin]

I'm not sure what bothers me more: this woman's taped comments or the number of people here jumping to her defense. I found her taped comments to be shameful and something that will only add to public distrust of physicians. Rather than defend her actions as something many people do, perhaps we should consider whether or not it's ever appropriate to say such things about our patients, especially in their presence. It certainly meets the legal standard of malpractice, though one could argue whether the amounts awarded were in line with what happened. Unfortunately, a smaller verdict probably wouldn't have had the same impact on future behavior. This incident has gotten a lot of media attention and given the award amounts will likely impact policy going forward, especially in Virginia where it occurred.

I don't sense that this patient intended for this to happen, but I would bet anything that every litigious patient out there will start recording their procedures. Food for thought for all of us.

Trust is everything when dealing w/ patients.
This woman who didn't see the need to get some help or didn't have a colleague that was good enough to point her in that direction just made every physician's and healthcare professional's job a lot harder. People are already cagey enough. God look at the news. You don't think people already have enough reason to be cagey and paranoid. Come on.

 

[NontradCA]

If you've been doing this for decades and still can't get over yourself enough to tolerate an ass of a patient, your problems aren't external.

Well that's the point isn't it? The physician didn't say those things for humor. It didn't come from a happy place. I'm betting the patient was difficult in ways that are originating internally as well, with nothing to do with the provider. The big difference is the provider is supposed to be able to handle difficult patients like these in a professional manner.

You eluded to training in an earlier post. They don't really teach us how to manage stress in med school. Is it any wonder students and doctors commit suicide at such high rates? Is it any wonder that this physician handled this situation with maladaptive behavior?

 

[WingedOx]

Well that's the point isn't it? The physician didn't say those things for humor. It didn't come from a happy place. I'm betting the patient was difficult in ways that are originating internally as well, with nothing to do with the provider. The big difference is the provider is supposed to be able to handle difficult patients like these in a professional manner.

You eluded to training in an earlier post. They don't really teach us how to manage stress in med school. Is it any wonder students and doctors commit suicide at such high rates? Is it any wonder that this physician handled this situation with maladaptive behavior?

If anything schools themselves encourage maladaptive behaviors. There's no shortage of people with personalities like said Gas Woman who fill out 3rd year evaluations.

 

[sloop]

The settlement seems like a lot. The patient should get something—especially for the chart falsification—but I don't buy the defamation charges a bit. Still, the comments were malicious and probably caused him some suffering that he should get compensated for. I just don't think it was hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of suffering.

Regarding the doctors' licenses, I'd try to determine whether this was an isolated situation or a habitual thing. If they're constantly treating patients like this, I'm not even having a conversation about this: they should all lose their licenses. If it was an isolated situation, I'd reprimand them and give them another chance. Whoever falsified the chart should lose his/her license regardless.

 

[deleted500612]

Absolutely he deserved $500,000 and that anesthesiologist should have her license suspended if not revoked. I am astounded at these doctors' immaturity and lack of compassion. If you want to blow off steam, do it in the break room or your office. Not with the patient. But even then, the statements they made were so mean-spirited and vitriolic. It is downright sociopathic and shows a lack of compassion that is frightening given their profession. Total overkill for a fear of needles, which millions of people have. I've never heard anything like this in the hospital. Not to mention they falsified notes in his chart and lied to him about giving him post-procedure instructions.

How anyone can defend these docs is beyond me. Justice well served.

Ok, I totally agree the conduct was unprofessional, immature, and that some sort of reprimand is definitely in order. But 500k in damages? Come on dude. Even the way they break down those damages is absurd. Apparently, the doctor joking about him having tuberculosis was worth 50k in damages, but since she also mentioned syphilis... that's another 50k! Jesus, I'd hate if she listed a couple more diseases, apparently the mental anguish and suffering caused by each one mentioned is about a year's salary. Another disease joked about is another year this guy will undoubtedly be incapacitated on his sofa suffering from PTSD and having flashbacks about the day the doctor mentioned not only tuberculosis... but syphilis *gasp*, totally understandable.

As another poster mentioned, I'm sure everyone would GLADLY line up to be insulted and laughed at for a few minutes if they got paid 500k for it, I'd be ecstatic to have that opportunity, and that is a sure sign that the damages are not in any way proportional to the affront that was committed. Also, I dont buy it that he turned on the voice recording an hour ahead of time with the sole purpose of just catching the couple minutes of post-operative instructions. Yep, that's why instead of fast forwarding through the recording of the hour long procedure to get to that post-operative instruction, he made sure to listen to the entire length of the recording immediately after leaving the hospital... it is painfully obvious this guy recorded the procedure for the purpose of catching a doctor saying something stupid so he could cash in on the easiest pay day of his life, which is exactly what happened.

The notion of perspective and proportionality of justice seems to be completely lost on some people. Demanding half a million dollars in damages and encouraging the revoking of a medical license because she joked about a patient's rash? There would not be a doctor left in this country if anyone who made a rude joke about a patient had their license revoked.

The article even states that the damages were awarded simply because of how outraged the jury was by what they heard and they wanted to stick it to the (wo)man. There was no legal grounds for defamation damages seeing as the comments were made as a joke and not as a false assertion of fact to anyone who would believe them as such, and there was no medical malpractice involved. The most serious concern is falsifying a patient's chart (as inconsequential as the falsification was, still unprofessional and unacceptable), which I do agree there should be a proportional reprimand for, just as there should be for making malicious remarks about a patient.

The bottom line though, is that it was immature jesting that hurt the guy's feelings, and the jury was sympathetic and outraged by his plight, undoubtedly imagining themselves going to the doctor and having a physician make fun of them while anesthetized... the horror! So, they decided to ignore the fact that the law does not support the basis of the suit, and award huge damages based on their emotional response to the situation rather than an actual legal entitlement to damages. The justice system at its finest, indeed.

 

[sunealoneal]

I have many thoughts on this, but some random thoughts:

I disagree with some posters about the role of a jury. The judge didn't render the verdict, the jury did. There is value in a jury making decisions counter to the legal framework provided to them. That is the same reason why I consider jury nullification an important concept as well. That's obviously a controversial opinion though, I expect most reasonable people to disagree with me about that.

On the other hand, I don't think that what happened here was defamation. I do think however that the comments the physician made were damaging . Half a million dollars worth? Maybe not, who knows. The fact that the jury had such an emotional reaction should maybe give some insight of the patient's perspective. Sure, I obviously wouldn't mind all that money if all it took was some doctor who I'll never see again say mean things about me.

But think about it. This patient heard a bunch of barbs about the rash on his penis. Like sure, just words. But he also still has that rash on his penis. Pretty much one of the most personal, intimate physical issues a man could deal with. That rash probably reminds him of those comments every time he looks at that thing. He probably wouldn't trust doctors for awhile. I definitely think that those comments have the ability to affect someone's health so therefore those comments were inappropriate enough to warrant more than a slap on the wrist. People here are complaining about the terrible legal system, but I think state of mental health awareness is in much deeper disrepair.

Who knows though, maybe after I go through clinicals I'll delete this post in embarrassment.

 

[charmiedermie]

Not saying it's right and not defending the doc in this case or any similar case. That's just part of why I think it occurs as opposed to simple elitism. For the most part we all "make it" through the training, but some will show "side effects" in one way or another - arrogance, intolerance, short temper, etc.

If arrogance, intolerance, and short temper are long-term side effects of training in Anesthesiology, then she should have chosen another specialty in medical school. The woman is in her 40s and she was berating a patient because he didn't "man up" enough to her satisfaction. People here are only assuming the patient must have been an ass or was being difficult, when all the comments don't support this.

 

[Hyde]

This incident has gotten a lot of media attention and given the award amounts will likely impact policy going forward.

What a helpful coincidence that an unpopular SCOTUS Obamacare decision comes on the heels of this well-publicized unprofessional physician incident.

 

[NontradCA]

If arrogance, intolerance, and short temper are long-term side effects of training in Anesthesiology, then she should have chosen another specialty in medical school. The woman is in her 40s and she was berating a patient because he didn't "man up" enough to her satisfaction. People here are only assuming the patient must have been an ass or was being difficult, when all the comments don't support this.

I don't agree with the Gas doc at all. I actually think she had this coming. However, I don't think it's appropriate to award the PT this much. I also don't know what else went down between PT and provider but I can't imagine this PT was in any way, a pleasant person. It all comes down to who's got more to lose. Obviously, it's the physician in this case.

On the other hand, people are saying physicians act like this all the time. That's not a valid point, as its evident they can't act like asshats anymore. Not in today's world. We need training on how to handle difficult PTs, and how to handle problems in general. Ever notice how passive aggressive med students are?

 

[Hyde]

But he also still has that rash on his penis. Pretty much one of the most personal, intimate physical issues a man could deal with. That rash probably reminds him of those comments every time he looks at that thing. He probably wouldn't trust doctors for awhile. I definitely think that those comments have the ability to affect someone's health so therefore those comments were inappropriate enough to warrant more than a slap on the wrist. People here are complaining about the terrible legal system, but I think state of mental health awareness is in much deeper disrepair.

Say what? Are you saying that everytime this patient "looked" at his penis, he'd be haunted by the sarcastic words of the physician about the rash he acquired doing whatever and the words would cause him mental anguish and he'd have to go it alone in his despair because our mental health care system is subpar and insensitive to men's penis rash embarrassment.

Okay. Forgive me if I hear X-File sound track when I read that type of "chain of logic" perspective.

 

[pd1112]

Say what? Are you saying that everytime this patient "looked" at his penis, he'd be haunted by the sarcastic words of the physician about the rash he acquired doing whatever and the words would cause him mental anguish and he'd have to go it alone in his despair because our mental health care system is subpar and insensitive to men's penis rash embarrassment.

Okay. Forgive me if I hear X-File sound track when I read that type of "chain of logic" perspective.

You must not have a penis, or you have one that has avoided ridicule. That actually is very good logic and your comment, if serious, reveals a lack of mental health awareness (and penis awareness).

If arrogance, intolerance, and short temper are long-term side effects of training in Anesthesiology, then she should have chosen another specialty in medical school. The woman is in her 40s and she was berating a patient because he didn't "man up" enough to her satisfaction. People here are only assuming the patient must have been an ass or was being difficult, when all the comments don't support this.

I was speaking generally about medical training and the behavior of physicians. I know nothing about the case other than comments in this thread. Behaviors, good or bad, are formed from past experiences. I think it's safe to say years of stress, sleep deprivation, demoralization, etc. in medical school and residency has a negative impact on future behaviors of some physicians. My original comment was in response to someone saying this doc was acting out of elitism. I said I think in general our unprofessional behavior, when it occurs, is more likely a result of suppressed emotions than us thinking we are better than our patients. I was never making an excuse for her or defending her, just commenting on the well-being of all of us, or lack thereof.