Am I too far in debt to even try?

[SoulSearcher]

Here is my situation: 38 years old, family of 5, $175,000 in existing school loans consolidated at 4.25%, approximately $900 per month! I know it sounds absurd and laughable that I would even consider going back and acquiring more debt but I am having trouble giving up on the dream!

An additional $275,000 at 8%+ would result in total monthly payments over $3000. I guess that narrows down the specialization options! I am open for ridicule and welcome your comments on my situation. Feel free to be as honest as you wish. I probably need the realiy to put out the fire for good! So let me know, am I too far in debt to even try?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[futuredo32]

I think if you were a very competitive applicant when it came time to apply for residency, you could pay off your loans if you matched into something that pays really well (derm, rads, ortho, optho, plastics). If you have your heart set on a specialty that doesn't pay as well, it's still doable, but you'd just not live as well as other doctors, but still better than many people. But, one thing that I wonder about is how much more money you could borrow? I maxed out my federal loans around 250k (give or take 20k). I don't know how much above and beyond a person can borrow from private sources, especially with the economy as it is today.

 

[TMP-SMX]

How do you figure an additional 275k? I recommend if you attempt this to try your state school first. You still have a bit of a ways to go before you max out your staffords for 1-2 years. Obviously you aren't the youngest and it would be tough to have a good lifestyle for a while paying it off and while in school. Does your SO work? If not, it is a good idea to start.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

I am in a fairly similar position -- late 30's upon entering school + similar loans including most of spouse's loans, which were consolidated with mine years ago.

As a finance person, I ran the numbers -- looking at income before and after, additional loans, etc. and it came out favorable on the $$ side to go forward, presuming specialization in the medium-paying area that interests me. This was important psychologically for me, as with kids many (like me) feel that they are limited by the monetary impact of their decision, i.e. any decision that would preclude my taking care of my kids' college would not be acceptable, regardless of how I felt about it.

I look at it as 4 yrs without income, and hopefully not even that as I'm hoping to work part-time for as much of the first 2 yrs as possible. After that, 50K resident's salary will at least cover the mortgage + basic living expenses, if not allow me to start paying back some portion of loans.

Biggest concern that I saw was 1) much lower standard of living for 4 yrs - the fin. aid office keeps telling me 1600 per month is what they allow for cost of living. 2) with the amount of loans I'll have and my age upon completing residency & fellowship, I'll have to enter a 15 yr repay plan (or shorter) in order to retire at a reasonable age -- it's a bit scary to think that I won't be able to retire, regardless of physical condition, until I'm in my early 60's.

 

[dragonfly99]

Honestly, at age 38 and with 5 kids and with 170k in debt I think it's a terrible idea, and I would not do it if I were you. That's if you have a halfway decent job right now and are not working in McDonald's (I trust you are not). To me, it would be much better to pursue some other health care career that takes a lot less time to train (i.e. RN, PA or nurse practitioner). To be honest, you'd be doing a lot of very similar stuff to what a lot of docs end up doing, and you'd start doing it a lot earlier, and with potential for a good income (not as high as specialist MD's for sure,but some CRNA's make more than a lot of MD/DO's, and some PA and NP's make similar to what primary care docs make). If you do decide to do it anyway, your spouse really needs to work if your spouse doesn't now...I don't see how you could do it any other way. Any other way the debt is just too crushing...even with a working spouse I'd seriously worry about hardship for you and your family. You won't be around to see your kids grow up and help take care of them, and you'll be under so much financial and emotional strain. I just don't think it's worth it...with one kid maybe, but with 5 I think it's madness. I'm not just talking about this from a financial standpoint. I have been through med school and residency both, so I have some basis for saying what I'm saying. I don't have a spouse or kids so you don't have to listen to me. Ultimately it is your decision but you need to think about all aspects of it...not just the financial. Personally I don't think the numbers/finances work either, especially if you aren't even entering med school now (i.e. would be 40 or something when you start). This will be a radical life change for you in every way, especially if you aren't currently in a health care career. I hope you think it through thoroughly before you leap.

A medicine fellow.

 

[SoulSearcher]

First, I want to thank each of you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate the opportunity to get advice and perspective from others in similar situations as well as those who have been through school, residency, etc.

I am aware that there are other factors to consider aside from finances, especially family time with my three rapidly growing children. However, I hope the 60+ hour weeks that I have worked in the past have prepared us all for the time commitment. My wife does work and has a flexible schedule which is a bonus.

I fgured the $275,000 based on 100k for in-state tuition, books, fees, etc. plus 100k for cost of living, plus interest. I would definitely max out federal loans and have to rely on private sources which carry higher interest rates.

 

[TMP-SMX]

Keep in mind that Grad Plus has no limit. They are 8.5% though. If your credit score is good you can probably get better private loan rates but there is still added risk of non-federal sources.

 

[dragonfly99]

I don't think a 60 hour a week job prepares you for what you are getting in to. I seriously was there 100-120 hours/week sometimes in 3rd year. I'm not sure if all med schools are that way, but mine was. On some surgical rotations it was get there at 4:30 a.m. and stay until 9pm on a regular basis. Also, we pretty much hit our 80 hrs/week and had 30 hour calls when I was a resident...so no going home and maybe no sleeping at all either for that 30 hours...so you'll be bushed when you do get home. But it's your decision to make, not anybody else's and it sounds like you've made up your mind. That is good if your spouse has some income. I thought you said 5 kids, not 3...

If you are paying only 100k total for tuition and books, I'd try to borrow the least amount you can to live off of. 175 sounds like a lot, but with the 5 kids maybe you cannot avoid it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I'd still like to know what job you have now that you are thinking of bailing out on at age 38...

 

[sunset823]

I thought I'd tack my situtation onto this thread. I have been accepted into med school, but as an out-of-state resident, I recently got my financial aid package and I would have to take out 80k+ of loans PER YEAR. I am a single 24 year old, and I know you'll all think I'm crazy, but I am scared to death of debt. I took out about 60K of loans for my grad program, and have spent the last 8 months in a low paying research job and will have paid off half of it by the time I go to school (let's just say 90% of my income is going towards student loans) - I have no doubt I am, and will continue to, live like a penniless monk, but I wonder if anyone else is in the situation that they're just scared of debt, and what to do about it. I'm going to have 30K of debt when I start school.

I'm still waiting on my state school, that would put my mind at so much ease.

 

[yadayadadude]

Sunset, you're not crazy to be scared of this kind of debt. You have to be crazy NOT to be scared. Borrowing $80K for a single year of medical school is loony. Remember that tuition and the cost of living goes up every year. Furthermore, the vast bulk of your loans will begin to accrue interest (to the tune of either 6.8% or 8.5%) from the minute they are disbursed. You can expect to graduate from medical school with more than $400K in debt; it will swell another $20K during each year of residency as more interest accrues. At capitalization, your debt could be almost $500K (or more, if you do a long residency).

My advice: don't go. Don't do it. Don't go to medical school this year. Reapply to your state school next year. Or pick a different career, either within healthcare or not. But don't shackle yourself with this kind of debt. Medicine isn't worth it, I promise you.

 

[TMP-SMX]

What is Illinois' rules on becoming a resident for tuition purposes? If it isn't possible I'd say don't go. I'd recommend hoping you get into Wayne. Why did you withdraw from MSU's waitlist?

 

[dragonfly99]

sunset, your situation isn't like the OP's since you are only 24. I think you could pay back that level of debt, but it would totally suck. In your situation I'd think about either the military or NHSC or something. I'm not sure waiting another year is a good option either...tuition will just get higher and there's no guarantee of getting into your state school the next year. Tough decision. I found that my schools COA was overestimating what I needed to live on when I was a student...of course I had to borrow all of the tuition but I found I was able to live on significantly less than what the school was saying it would cost me. I don't know if that will be true in your situation. Will you have to pay out of state tuition x 4 years?

 

[sunset823]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I've made some stupid decisions in my life, withdrawing from MSU's waitlist is one of them. I didn't feel comfortable there because it is very rural and I'm interested in urban medicine, but I now realize that it would have been a safer bet to get out of the boonies during residency than to take on this debt.

I am looking into military and public health/National Health services, and definitely will apply to them if it comes down to the wire, but I'm really hoping for Wayne State, it is a really good fit on a lot of levels (urban, price, close to home, etc.)

 

[dragonfly99]

sunset,
did you tell Wayne how much you want to go there? It never hurts. Also, if you can get one of your LOR writers, and/or a physician who is an alum of their med school or residency program, to put in a good word for you, that also might help if you are on the cusp of getting admitted. All schools want people who really want to be there.

 

[sunset823]

sunset,
did you tell Wayne how much you want to go there? It never hurts. Also, if you can get one of your LOR writers, and/or a physician who is an alum of their med school or residency program, to put in a good word for you, that also might help if you are on the cusp of getting admitted. All schools want people who really want to be there.

Yes, I did write a letter of intent. Unfortunately, none of my LOR writers graduated from there, so I don't have that card to play. However, I remain optimistic that either Wayne or Tufts (which, while expensive, is not nearly the cost of UIC oos) will come through, at least via waitlist. If they don't, I have a major decision to make.

 

[dpmd]

After that, 50K resident's salary will at least cover the mortgage + basic living expenses, if not allow me to start paying back some portion of loans.

Umm, I wouldn't put your faith into getting 50K a year as a resident. At my institution you start at about 36K and max out as a fifth year at 47K. There were other places I interviewed at that had lower pay as well.

 

[dragonfly99]

36k a year is a very low resident salary.
I started at 39k in 2004 in internal medicine. I don't know what the PGY1 resident salary is @my hospital now, but it's not unreasonable to think it will be close to 50k in 5 years when the OP graduates...at least it will be high 40's.