Am I crazy to choose Podiatry?

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Well agree to disagree cause all the pods where I have shadowed started at more than 70k!!! Lol, that is so low for 4 years of med school and 3 years of residency. It would be impossible to pay off student loans with that salary and have a mortgage, car, family...I make more than that now and let me tell you it doesn't go that far, period.
 
ldsrmdude said:
I don't know if those figures are that crazy. Seeing some senior residents go through the process, I saw that there are a lot of those offers out there. One graduating resident I know took one of those jobs because it was in a location he wanted to be in and there weren't many options there. Plus, a lot of times when people talk about salary they are talking about base salary without incentives such as production bonuses, malpractice, etc. I think 80k as a base with a good production incentive structure and some paid malpractice, vacation, retirement, etc is very realistic and far from absurd. If you are well trained and willing to move to wherever you can find the best opportunity, more starting salary is not out of the question from what I have seen.
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Just read it again and yes agree with this...
 
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But again at the end of the year your not starting out at 70K-80K gross income.
 
dudestheman90 said:
Realistically no. During residency I believe the avg salary you make is between 40-60k, avg. 50k. Once you finish residency I believe a starting salary would be around 60-100k, avg. 80k. After a couple years of experience maybe 4-5 years I can see the salary growing between 100-150k. After 10+ years most likely around 150-200k. The more experience you get, the likely the higher the salary you'll make since you'll have the experience to probably teach, do research, even get a position with a hospital, you'll find other ways to supplement your income by . In podiatry, yes you do have a high income potential but your also adding a lot of interest on your loans as you go. Pres. BHO got rid of free-interest loans for graduate students which means you'll be incurring debt the moment you pull out a loan. Also we can't predict with certainty how obama care will impact podiatry, i've heard its going to lower reimbursement which means less money. The point is don't go into this field for money, i always tell my friends, if you want to make money than why not just go to business school or become a lawyer, you could become a millionaire overnight. Being a doctor in this new socialist country of ours you wont make much money. Just research up on europe (greece/spain) and see how their doing.
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Not to derail, but I believe doctors in other countries don't pay the same tuition as we do.

medical-school-cost1.png
 
nikkisorous said:
Yes- this is common for pharmacists...
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Pharmacists don't come out of college with that amount of debt. At my undergrad university, the total cost of pharmacy was <100K for in-state students. Pharmacists in the Northeast also make ~100K starting, and don't have to worry about 3 years of residency making pennies while working long hours.
 
hematosis said:
Is it possible to pay 225-250K loans on a 70k-80k salary?
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Also look at other careers too. The average cost of a doctorate degree at a public school in 2008 reached $48,400 each year, and private schools being $60,000 a year. And if you told someone coming out of a doctorate for neuroscience they would be ecstatic to be hearing $70K a year. My advisor told me that she got a masters and even 10yrs after she isn't even making $55K a year

Go look at people in business and marketing to tell them that you would "only" be making $80K when you are 28 years old. When they are 28 they may have been working for 4yrs (if they didn't go get their MBA) and they are lucky to even reel in $55K a year.
Yes, medicine will have high starting salaries, but also a high amount of debt.
But in my mind, complaining about $75K is hard to believe.
People that go to get their MBA will pay $70K to $100K for a 2yr MBA program. Unless you graduated from one of the best MBA programs you would be lucky to make $60K to begin with as well.

Medicine will be a profession in which it can only go up. I would not expect to be able to buy a house and a nice car within your first couple years. That is not how it works. You can't just jump straight into a $100K job guaranteed as a podiatrist
 
CapCrunch said:
Pharmacists don't come out of college with that amount of debt. At my undergrad university, the total cost of pharmacy was <100K for in-state students. Pharmacists in the Northeast also make ~100K starting, and don't have to worry about 3 years of residency making pennies while working long hours.
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This is not true.
Plenty of pharmacy schools cost the same as podiatry. Chapel hil, a well noted pharmacy school is 40k a year.
Even though it's optional plenty still choose to do residencies.

Also I live in the northeast. Retail pharmacists make the most and if they get starting jobs of 90+ they get ecstatic. Many pharmacists around the US make 80k and live comfortably.

To the poster saying they have no kids etc, again not true. I've worked in a pharmacy for years. They all have nice cars/houses. The only part semi true is they did choose to pay off their loans over 25 years.
 
hematosis said:
Is it possible to pay 225-250K loans on a 70k-80k salary?
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Is it possible? Sure. If you figure that you are making 30k more after you finish residency than during residency, I suppose you could put that money towards paying off loans. Fun? No. Possible? Yeah. Plus, figure in the fact that you will likely be making more money as time goes on, so a few years out, you'll likely be making more and able to afford more towards your loan (or your Ferrari).
 
nikkisorous said:
This is not true.
Plenty of pharmacy schools cost the same as podiatry. Chapel hil, a well noted pharmacy school is 40k a year.
Even though it's optional plenty still choose to do residencies.

Also I live in the northeast. Retail pharmacists make the most and if they get starting jobs of 90+ they get ecstatic. Many pharmacists around the US make 80k and live comfortably.

To the poster saying they have no kids etc, again not true. I've worked in a pharmacy for years. They all have nice cars/houses. The only part semi true is they did choose to pay off their loans over 25 years.
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We're pretty close with salary. The only difference is that pharmacy is still shorter than podiatry. Podiatry is 4 year undergrad, followed by 4 year DPM. Pharmacy is 2 year pre-pharm followed by 4 professional years. I'm not too sure what Pod tuition is, since admittedly I've mainly researched DO schools before discovering DPM.
Pharmacy offers great opportunities especially if you branch out and venture more into the business realm. My father is a pharmacist and branched out in order to drastically increase his salary.
 
CapCrunch said:
We're pretty close with salary. The only difference is that pharmacy is still shorter than podiatry. Podiatry is 4 year undergrad, followed by 4 year DPM. Pharmacy is 2 year pre-pharm followed by 4 professional years. I'm not too sure what Pod tuition is, since admittedly I've mainly researched DO schools before discovering DPM.
Pharmacy offers great opportunities especially if you branch out and venture more into the business realm. My father is a pharmacist and branched out in order to drastically increase his salary.
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Pharmacy is traditionally 4 +4 too..true there are several 6 year programs, but if you're discussing exceptions there are 6/7 year accelerated med school programs too.

Anyway sorry for bringing up pharmacy and going off topic.
 
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ldsrmdude said:
Is it possible? Sure. If you figure that you are making 30k more after you finish residency than during residency, I suppose you could put that money towards paying off loans. Fun? No. Possible? Yeah. Plus, figure in the fact that you will likely be making more money as time goes on, so a few years out, you'll likely be making more and able to afford more towards your loan (or your Ferrari).
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I know its a rough estimate (were just including base salary here and nothing else). With a base of 75k you would take home about 55k (rough estimate based on 2012income tax & living in california). Your student loans (avg undergrad + pod school) would be roughly 250k--again i know people with 100k just for undergrad and 200k for pod school. Assume minimum monthly payment of $2,877 (http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi). you would be left with about 1706 per month (or about 21,000/yr) for rent, car payment, bills, etc. This definitely does not include every possible scenario or tax write off, etc. But to put things in perspective you would be living pretty much like a student on loans.

In my opinion this is unacceptable. Feli and PADPM had made excellent cases why a base salary below 100k can sometimes be a great investment opportunity for future podiatrist due to bonus structure, etc. However, as Dr. Lee Rogers pointed out a few years back on these forms, higher base salaries with exceptional bonus structures are also offered. The reason we continue to see and hear about these 80k offers are mostly because freshly graduated podiatrist are still accepting them for various reasons (location was an example given earlier) . Rogers also eluted to the fact that residents should decline these offers and should have more self respect and I agree 100%. One of the reasons why such a low base is offered is partly because a new podiatrist is a big risk for a established practice to take on but he is also a risk for a hospital/ortho group (which have much higher base salaries but may have lower earning potential).

Based on what i've heard, I would say that it is more common for a podiatrist to start over 100k than it is under it.
 
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The problem about complaining that you are in a profession that by the time you are 35 you will most likely be making at least $120K.

Or you can take the route of just taking your Bachelors of Science (BS) for granted. You could take a job in a laboratory for 5yrs making $45K a year. By the time you are 30 you have a job that is just working in a lab with a boring job with no socializing with anyone. Unless you become a research supervisor you will not make more than $70K in your career. I am basing this off typical salary details. You won't have much debt compared to other

If you made $50K for each of your 3yrs in residency, then $80K for first 4yrs of practice, $100K next 5yrs, then $120K after 10yrs of practice. Just guessimating.
So after lets say 15yrs after graduating Podiatry school (about 42yrs old) you will have probably $1.6million. OBVIOUSLY you will be paying off the loans, house, cars. By this time you will probably have a family (hopefully a child)

Look at if you went through just with your Bachelors Degree. First 5yrs, about $45K/yr. Next 2 or 3, about $55K. Next 3yr $60K. Then next 10 yrs about $70K MAX!!! And that gives you. So until you are 42yrs old you would be at best lucky to have at most $1.1 million made off of salary. Yes, you would have less debt to pay off, but after these 15yrs you will be making at least $50K to $60K more than if you didn't go to DPM school and just used you BS in a science degree

If you are actually freaking out about the "lack" of money in podiatry then look at your options with just a BS. Or to get a Masters Degree that would take 2yrs and cost about $50K in just tuition and will be hardest to find a job in my mind and from what I have talked to with other medical professions
 
hughesn2 said:
The problem about complaining that you are in a profession that by the time you are 35 you will most likely be making at least $120K.

Or you can take the route of just taking your Bachelors of Science (BS) for granted. You could take a job in a laboratory for 5yrs making $45K a year. By the time you are 30 you have a job that is just working in a lab with a boring job with no socializing with anyone. Unless you become a research supervisor you will not make more than $70K in your career. I am basing this off typical salary details. You won't have much debt compared to other

If you made $50K for each of your 3yrs in residency, then $80K for first 4yrs of practice, $100K next 5yrs, then $120K after 10yrs of practice. Just guessimating.
So after lets say 15yrs after graduating Podiatry school (about 42yrs old) you will have probably $1.6million. OBVIOUSLY you will be paying off the loans, house, cars. By this time you will probably have a family (hopefully a child)

Look at if you went through just with your Bachelors Degree. First 5yrs, about $45K/yr. Next 2 or 3, about $55K. Next 3yr $60K. Then next 10 yrs about $70K MAX!!! And that gives you. So until you are 42yrs old you would be at best lucky to have at most $1.1 million made off of salary. Yes, you would have less debt to pay off, but after these 15yrs you will be making at least $50K to $60K more than if you didn't go to DPM school and just used you BS in a science degree

If you are actually freaking out about the "lack" of money in podiatry then look at your options with just a BS. Or to get a Masters Degree that would take 2yrs and cost about $50K in just tuition and will be hardest to find a job in my mind and from what I have talked to with other medical professions
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That's assuming that you never make more than 70K with a bachelor's degree...
 
CapCrunch said:
That's assuming that you never make more than 70K with a bachelor's degree...
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Well I am just looking at what most people with a BS in Physio have done. I have talked to some and they are in their mid 40s just working at a BioTech company making still less than $70K. I am not saying this is normal for all, but getting a BS in a degree not engineering or business you need to go to some type of graduate school to actually make a good living COMPARED to Podiatry.
I am not saying that making $70K a year is not a good living, but if you compare it to podiatry it is better in the long run. Also, I am not taking out taxes either!!!

My podiatrist has been practicing for 19yrs now and his wife is a stay at home mom with a daughter that is 7yrs old. He loves his life, works good hours for one of the top podiatrists in Southeast Michigan. He did tell me that yeah it would suck for all the years that medical school will cost, but it is a great profession for the long run.
Obviously, the pay will be better than most jobs you can get with a Masters or a Bachelors, but it is all about the student loans debt.
Currently, I have about $80K in financial aid, so with interest it will increase. Yes, this is just for an undergrad BS degree.

I will graduate MSU with about $80K worth of financial
 
hughesn2 said:
Also look at other careers too. The average cost of a doctorate degree at a public school in 2008 reached $48,400 each year, and private schools being $60,000 a year. And if you told someone coming out of a doctorate for neuroscience they would be ecstatic to be hearing $70K a year. My advisor told me that she got a masters and even 10yrs after she isn't even making $55K a year

Go look at people in business and marketing to tell them that you would "only" be making $80K when you are 28 years old. When they are 28 they may have been working for 4yrs (if they didn't go get their MBA) and they are lucky to even reel in $55K a year.
Yes, medicine will have high starting salaries, but also a high amount of debt.
But in my mind, complaining about $75K is hard to believe.
People that go to get their MBA will pay $70K to $100K for a 2yr MBA program. Unless you graduated from one of the best MBA programs you would be lucky to make $60K to begin with as well.

Medicine will be a profession in which it can only go up. I would not expect to be able to buy a house and a nice car within your first couple years. That is not how it works. You can't just jump straight into a $100K job guaranteed as a podiatrist
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MBA =/= DPM in any way ( salary, loans, residency duration, etc.).
Also, A doctor in neuroscience would require going to graduate school for a PhD. It is my understanding that you are actually paid to attend graduate school (unless something has changed recently). You dont come out with 250k loans.
 
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Basically any science/engineering PhD program pays you a stipend as opposed to you paying tuition. There are even some masters programs that do.
 
How much could one expect with production-bonus, assuming that they are fairly busy?

80+ (30k-40k bonus) is not bad for your first job out of residency. I personally expect to make over 200k mid way through my career. Maybe I get luck sooner then later, but I intend to work hard and make moves to raise the ceiling on my income.

I think its just nerve racking taking out 200k loans, with the thought of only making 80k (our education system is crazy) but I've seen many PODs make FAR more then 80k, then less.
 
hematosis said:
I know its a rough estimate (were just including base salary here and nothing else). With a base of 75k you would take home about 55k (rough estimate based on 2012income tax & living in california). Your student loans (avg undergrad + pod school) would be roughly 250k--again i know people with 100k just for undergrad and 200k for pod school. Assume minimum monthly payment of $2,877 (http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi). you would be left with about 1706 per month (or about 21,000/yr) for rent, car payment, bills, etc. This definitely does not include every possible scenario or tax write off, etc. But to put things in perspective you would be living pretty much like a student on loans.

In my opinion this is unacceptable. Feli and PADPM had made excellent cases why a base salary below 100k can sometimes be a great investment opportunity for future podiatrist due to bonus structure, etc. However, as Dr. Lee Rogers pointed out a few years back on these forms, higher base salaries with exceptional bonus structures are also offered. The reason we continue to see and hear about these 80k offers are mostly because freshly graduated podiatrist are still accepting them for various reasons (location was an example given earlier) . Rogers also eluted to the fact that residents should decline these offers and should have more self respect and I agree 100%. One of the reasons why such a low base is offered is partly because a new podiatrist is a big risk for a established practice to take on but he is also a risk for a hospital/ortho group (which have much higher base salaries but may have lower earning potential).

Based on what i've heard, I would say that it is more common for a podiatrist to start over 100k than it is under it.
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This is a great point, after the amount of work put in to become a doctor one should be insulted by the low offers and should definitely have enough self respect to get themselves something better.
 
BIH91 said:
This is a great point, after the amount of work put in to become a doctor one should be insulted by the low offers and should definitely have enough self respect to get themselves something better.
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That's easy to say when you don't have a quarter of a million dollars of debt sitting on your shoulders.
 
True but wouldn't you be taking a huge burden off yourself by not just taking any offer that comes up and working yourself into something that can help with that loan.
 
What ever happened to doing something because you're passionate about it, not because you want some elitist position in society with lots of money? Look, the way I see it, going to podiatry school is going to be the biggest risk I will ever take in my life. I have the opportunity to attend, possibly fail out, and ruin my self financially for a very very long time. I look at podiatry and schooling as a massive challenge that I can one day be proud of accomplishing, and feel good about helping people day in and day out. We all know podiatry is lucrative, and its like anything else: you get what you put into it. Become a work aholic and make ched if you wish, but I say focus on getting in and getting through school and forget worrying about money. You can worry about that once you make it through.
P.s. I just had one of those holy **** it's Christmas break already, I'm going to podiatry school next year and I'm scared as hell moments. (I also don't plan on failing anything, ever.)
 
Pktgresch said:
What ever happened to doing something because you're passionate about it, not because you want some elitist position in society with lots of money? Look, the way I see it, going to podiatry school is going to be the biggest risk I will ever take in my life. I have the opportunity to attend, possibly fail out, and ruin my self financially for a very very long time. I look at podiatry and schooling as a massive challenge that I can one day be proud of accomplishing, and feel good about helping people day in and day out. We all know podiatry is lucrative, and its like anything else: you get what you put into it. Become a work aholic and make ched if you wish, but I say focus on getting in and getting through school and forget worrying about money. You can worry about that once you make it through.
P.s. I just had one of those holy **** it's Christmas break already, I'm going to podiatry school next year and I'm scared as hell moments. (I also don't plan on failing anything, ever.)
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Amen Brother!
 
Pktgresch said:
P.s. I just had one of those holy **** it's Christmas break already, I'm going to podiatry school next year and I'm scared as hell moments. (I also don't plan on failing anything, ever.)
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It's your Christmas break?? Lucky!! I officially graduate on Friday, and I'm also feeling a bit strange about it...
 
Pktgresch said:
I look at podiatry and schooling as a massive challenge that I can one day be proud of accomplishing, and feel good about helping people day in and day out.
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It will be a big challenge, but keep your head down, keep pushing forward, and you should be fine. Don't forget that you have all the other pod students on here to help you out if you have any questions while you are in school.

MaxillofacialMN said:
I officially graduate on Friday, and I'm also feeling a bit strange about it...
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Congrats on graduating, MaxillofacialMN! :thumbup:
 
Way to hijack the thread Max.... haha congratz! :)

Agree with Pktgresch btw
 
MaxillofacialMN CONGRATs !!!! go on vacation before starting pod school =) :D:D:D;););)
 
See quoted text.
 
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Ferocity said:
No pissing match. I think it's STUPID that AB got his mod status revoked while at the same time Duped and Cizzen accounts are still active.

Edit: You reading this SDN admins? Put AB back as a mod, ban Duped and Cizzen accounts, make the podiatry forum a better place so that more people in the community will post here.
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Some things just don't make any sense at all.
 
Haha thanks guys. I was going to do a roadtrip through the Rockies or go to Costa Rica, but I'm starting to get job interviews next week already which may have put a damper in those plans for now. I can always go in July once I quit my job... Good luck to everyone on finals!
 
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