Advice? (long)

[168533]

I decided to ask for some advice here instead of pre-allo because they seem really negative over there. Anyways, I'm a 23 year old senior that's graduating in May '08 with a double major in philosophy and biology. I plan to apply to medical school this coming June. However, I'm worried about my stats. I started off at a community college for 2 years because of money problems and made an A in every class except for two. I made a B in a history class and a C in O-chem.

I was pre-med at first, but I was still unsure about it and finally decided to just give up because I didn't think I could handle the long amount of schooling, so I spent the next couple of years just basically going back and forth on what I wanted to do. I didn't really care about school. I just went through the courses and ultimately didn't do that great when I transferred to a university. I finally decided to do pharmacy school, but I worked at a pharmacy, and I hated it. The only thing that I did like was helping people, but I was a tech, and we can't give advice and such. I thought long and hard about it and decided that being a doctor is really what I want to do, but now I'm worried that my lack of motivation has killed my gpa that I won't be able to get in somewhere.

Right now, I have a 3.3 GPA and 2.9 BCPM. If I get all As next semester, which I'm going to work really hard to get, I'll end up with a 3.4 GPA and a 3.0 BCPM by graduation, but I'll have 7 Ws on my transcripts. I'm taking the MCAT in April, so I'm hoping to do really well on that. I'm just really worried I don't have a chance right now. I didn't care these last few years because I didn't really know what I wanted to do but now that I do I feel like I'm pretty much out of luck. I'm trying to make other parts of my application look good. I've had leadership positions, and I'm trying to get more volunteering in too. Do I have any chance at medical school? Any advice is much appreciated.

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[wutwinb]

I decided to ask for some advice here instead of pre-allo because they seem really negative over there. Anyways, I'm a 23 year old senior that's graduating in May '08 with a double major in philosophy and biology. I plan to apply to medical school this coming June. However, I'm worried about my stats. I started off at a community college for 2 years because of money problems and made an A in every class except for two. I made a B in a history class and a C in O-chem.

I was pre-med at first, but I was still unsure about it and finally decided to just give up because I didn't think I could handle the long amount of schooling, so I spent the next couple of years just basically going back and forth on what I wanted to do. I didn't really care about school. I just went through the courses and ultimately didn't do that great when I transferred to a university. I finally decided to do pharmacy school, but I worked at a pharmacy, and I hated it. The only thing that I did like was helping people, but I was a tech, and we can't give advice and such. I thought long and hard about it and decided that being a doctor is really what I want to do, but now I'm worried that my lack of motivation has killed my gpa that I won't be able to get in somewhere.

Right now, I have a 3.3 GPA and 2.9 BCPM. If I get all As next semester, which I'm going to work really hard to get, I'll end up with a 3.4 GPA and a 3.0 BCPM by graduation, but I'll have 7 Ws on my transcripts. I'm taking the MCAT in April, so I'm hoping to do really well on that. I'm just really worried I don't have a chance right now. I didn't care these last few years because I didn't really know what I wanted to do but now that I do I feel like I'm pretty much out of luck. I'm trying to make other parts of my application look good. I've had leadership positions, and I'm trying to get more volunteering in too. Do I have any chance at medical school? Any advice is much appreciated.

Here's my advice. I think the first thing you should concentrate on is your final semester of college. Do everything you can in this last semester to bump your science gpa to a 3.0. I think the 3.0 is the "unofficial cutoff" for a lot of schools. That doesn't mean you won't get interviews if your BCPM is below 3.0, but it will be a little harder. No matter what your final gpa/bcpm gpa is, you want to show the adcoms that you finished strong/learned from the mistakes of your past.

Secondly, it sounds like you have jumped around a lot on your journey to medical school. That's definitely fine. It's good to get experience in other fields to verify what you don't want to do with your life. However, you didn't mention any clinical experience in your posts. Have you had the opportunity to shadow physicians, volunteer in hospitals and/or clinics? Clinical experience is very vital to your application. Adcoms will look for it on your AMCAS, and most interviewers will ask about it.




If you definitely want to apply next June, there are a few things you can do to strengthen your application.

1. You can do a Special Master's Program (SMP), during your application year to strengthen your app academically. If you are a minority, there are a few programs that guarantee acceptance to a med school if you meet certain criteria (if you are a minority, or underprivileged, let me know and I can get you info on some of these programs). The SMP's won't do anything to your undergrad gpa, but, if you do well, if proves to the adcoms that you can handle the rigor of the med school curriculum. There aren't many, and they are expensive, so you would need to research the programs to see if they are for you
Here is the link:
http://services.aamc.org/postbac/

2. Rock the MCAT. I know, easier said than done. But, an amazing MCAT score can definitely make-up for a below average gpa. I would suggest taking some practices exams over winter break to see where your scores are at this point. Since you only have 1 semester left, you can't make major changes in your gpa. But, you have control over your performance on the MCAT, which is weighted as much as your gpa (at most schools).

**Also, if you must take the April test, don't let studying for the MCAT hurt your performance in class. You don't want to have a great MCAT, but bomb your last semester. MCAT prep requires a lot of study hours.Perhaps you should think about taking an early June test so that it doesn't interfere with your classes. If you can handle class and MCAT, then by all means take the April date so you get your score earlier, many people have done it before. It just depends on your time management skills.



My question to you is this: Do you feel that, by June '08, your application will be the strongest it can in order for you to apply to med school? Nobody wants to go through this process twice. When I was a second semester junior, I knew that I couldn't have a strong application by senior year, so I consulted with advisors, did my own "year off" research, and figured out what I personally needed to do to have a strong app. It was the best decision I ever made because, even though I had to take a year, I was able to apply knowing I had done everything I could to make myself a competitive applicant. Med school will always be there, and if you need to take 1 or 2 years off to get there, it'll all be worth it in the end.

I think there is definitely hope for you to get accepted to med school, there's no question about it. You just really need to think about the strength of your application when you apply. It's good that you are thinking about this early. Start researching your options and you'll be able to figure out the best plan for you.

Good luck You can definitely do this.

Let me know if any of my post doesn't make sense, and sorry it's so long.

 

[aaj117]

wutwinb really hit the nail on the head here. You most certainly still have a shot, and should not give up. Your GPA is certainly recoverable, and schools understand that some of us haven't spent our entire lives gunning for med school, and may have made some mistakes on our way to coming to a decision. Now it's time to show them that you can overcome those mistakes. It seems to me like an extra year could really help you show them that. An SMP or a post-bacc would be very helpful if GPA is your weak point, but if you apply right after graduation they won't be able to see your grades in these, and it won't help as much. Also, you'll be trying to maintain solid grades while travleing for interviews, filling out apps, and all around nailing the application process; this is much harder than it sounds, and i think that i definitely made a mistake in trying to do so.
It sounds like you're in a very similar position to where i was in my junior year. I had just decided on medical school, so my grades weren't where the average pre-med was. I didn't have any research either, although i had clinical experience. I knew my GPA was going to be the biggest weakness on my application, and even with one year to work on it, it wouldn't be stellar. I decided to accept this, do the best i could, and make sure it was the ONLY weakness on my application. So i rocked the MCAT, and took a year off to do clinical research full time as a job, and take post-bacc classes at night to show that i could do the work in upper level classes. I think a similar route may help you; gain experience in the medical field to fill in any gaps on your application, and do your best to improve your biggest weakness. If a 3.4 is your only weakness, you'll have no problem. Take the time to make sure that your application is that strong, even if it takes an extra year or two.

 

[168533]

Thanks for the advice so far. As far as clinical experience, I'm in the process of trying to get some. I just started volunteering at Ronald McDonald House and turned in an application to volunteer at one of the local hospitals. I've done a semester of research with one of my biology professors.

I know clinical experience is very important to know if this is truly something that I want to do, but I feel like a lot of my personal experiences also help to strengthen my decision. Every time I say to myself that this or that is the career for me, I end up not feeling right about my choice. I get this uneasy feeling like this isn't for me and for the first time, I feel like I'm making the right choice. I think when I first started college and thought about medicine, I was still too immature, but I think I've grown a lot since then.

I know that I definitely do not want to go through this process twice and that a post-bac or SMP would be better for me, and maybe I should apply in June '09. I just hate postponing another year after finally making a decision because I already feel so far behind and want to get started asap, but I know that I have to take it into consideration. Sigh

 

[LovelyMD]

Thanks for the advice so far. As far as clinical experience, I'm in the process of trying to get some. I just started volunteering at Ronald McDonald House and turned in an application to volunteer at one of the local hospitals. I've done a semester of research with one of my biology professors.

I know clinical experience is very important to know if this is truly something that I want to do, but I feel like a lot of my personal experiences also help to strengthen my decision. Every time I say to myself that this or that is the career for me, I end up not feeling right about my choice. I get this uneasy feeling like this isn't for me and for the first time, I feel like I'm making the right choice. I think when I first started college and thought about medicine, I was still too immature, but I think I've grown a lot since then.

I know that I definitely do not want to go through this process twice and that a post-bac or SMP would be better for me, and maybe I should apply in June '09. I just hate postponing another year after finally making a decision because I already feel so far behind and want to get started asap, but I know that I have to take it into consideration. Sigh

I'd like to second what wutwin and aaj said about taking more time to strengthen your application. I graduated in 06 and will be entering med school in 08, and I don't regret taking that time at all. I don't feel I would've been NEARLY as competitive as I am now if I applied when I was a senior. Don't feel like you're behind-- this is not a race, and everyone's got to go at their own pace . That said, the average age of entry into med school is 24, so you wouldn't be that far off anyway.

As far as clinical experience is concerned- quality over quantity. It's not the number of hours you need to be concerned about, but what you get out of the experience. I really didn't have very much clinical experience at all (probably about 100 hours total, off the top of my head), but I feel that I was able to convince people that I knew I wanted this through my explanation of why I want to go into medicine, incorporating some of my medically related experiences. I really wasn't asked much about clinical experience on interviews (I think I was asked about it on 2 of 9 interviews), but I think that's because my goals as a physician incorporate a lot of different activities including research and teaching, so I was asked much more about my research.

In college, I knew I was interested in a science related career but definitely jumped around a lot. I considered dentistry, grad school for biology, etc. When I was asked about my journey to medicine on my interviews, I definitely mentioned the fact that I had considered other careers and explored them to make sure I wanted to get the MD, and not PA, DDS, etc. In addition, I explained how it fit into my future goals.

 

[QTCL13]

I definitely agree with everything that has been said above. Additionally, I think that it's important to work hard on your personal statement and choose your recommenders carefully regardless of when you decide to apply. I know that the admissions process is secretive and no one truly knows actually what adcoms are looking for but I think one's potential, passion, drive, and commitment are important factors that will not be overlooked--grades and MCAT are important but in the long run, I would hope that schools would want to admit students who are going to be committed,passionate physicians and scientists, not just ones who had a 4.0 GPA and a 40+ MCAT score. There's no place better to demonstrate your passion than through the personal statement and through the recommendations that you will get. Also, don't be afraid to seek out professors whose classes you maybe didn't do the best in grade-wise, but really learned a lot. I ended up going down this route and I was nervous about it at first but I had some really great conversations with the recommender about what the experience in the class meant to me, how much I learned, how it influenced my interests now that I believe the letter he wrote for me was truly helpful to my application

I'm sure you've heard it before but try to find recommenders who know you well or who can translate your commitment to medicine, as well as your other ECs. For example, only 2 of my recommenders were professors. One was a dean of our African American cultural center who knew alot about my involvement in a dance group, one was my cheerleading coach who didn't know much about my academics, and one was an MD who I work now who could attest to my commitment to medicine but didn't know anything about my grades, how well I performed in classes, etc.

Best of luck. I have no doubt you'll make it!

 

[168533]

For me there seems to be 2 options. I could make my application as strong as possible by June and apply. If I don't do well in the process, I could try an SMP while applying again. My other option is to just wait until June 09 so I can have more time to make my application strong. I'm just worried about possibly missing a chance to get in a year earlier because of not trying at all.

 

[aaj117]

For me there seems to be 2 options. I could make my application as strong as possible by June and apply. If I don't do well in the process, I could try an SMP while applying again. My other option is to just wait until June 09 so I can have more time to make my application strong. I'm just worried about possibly missing a chance to get in a year earlier because of not trying at all.

The question is do you just want to get in anywhere, or do you have a specific school, region of the country, city that you want to be in? a specific type of school that you want to go to? I think to have time to improve your app, choose schools wisely, and research them carefully, as well as polish your personal statement and prepare for the MCAT, the time will help. You may be missing a chance to get in a year earlier, but if that chance makes you miss out on attending your top choice school, or puts you in before you're really ready, it might be a chance you should miss out on.
Also, a year seems a lot longer than it really is. It flies by, and having the time dedicated to applying would really help. I know i feel like i tried to do way too much at once, and had no idea what a large chunk of your time applying takes up.

 

[LovelyMD]

For me there seems to be 2 options. I could make my application as strong as possible by June and apply. If I don't do well in the process, I could try an SMP while applying again. My other option is to just wait until June 09 so I can have more time to make my application strong. I'm just worried about possibly missing a chance to get in a year earlier because of not trying at all.

Everyone who replied to you on this thread is taking either 1 or 2 years off, so you're going to get a biased viewpoint here, but I will say that I haven't met anyone who has taken time off and regretted it, but I have met people who went straight into med school and did regret it. (the exception: people who were "forced" to take a year off because they applied and didn't get accepted).

I will second what aaj said. If you're looking to attend certain schools or stay in a certain region of the country/city, etc, etc, I think you should take the time to make your application stronger. And yes, a year will definitely fly by!

 

[168533]

I'd be grateful to get in any where really, though I have some schools that are reaches. Another thing with taking a year off that in order to make my application more stronger number wise is that I can't really afford some of those post-bac/SMP programs. I've been fortunate enough to not to be in a great deal of debt during my undergrad career, but some of those programs are really expensive, especially the competitive ones. I don't really want to spend $50,000+ when I don't have to.

Anyways, thanks for all the great advice. I really appreciate it. I know I'm definitely not a shoe in to any school with my stats. I'm trying to stay positive and think of what I can do to better my chances either this coming up cycle or the cycle after that. Oh, and congratulations to all of you guys that got accepted! I see that a lot of you have been successful this cycle and hope to follow you all soon.

 

[aaj117]

I've been fortunate enough to not to be in a great deal of debt during my undergrad career, but some of those programs are really expensive, especially the competitive ones. I don't really want to spend $50,000+ when I don't have to.

.

Okay i promise i'll stop posting here soon, but just a quick reply to this numbers-wise:
If you do an informal postbacc, like the one i'm doing, i think it will save you money. Applying to med school is crazy expensive, right? Applying broadly because you have lower stats and want to make sure you get in, doubly so. Including travel to interviews, suits, secondaries, primary, etc, you might spend let's say $5,000, maybe more. If you had to do this twice? It doubles to $10,000.
I am taking post-bacc classes through an informal program at Penn, an expensive private school. I'm paying $1800 per course. If you did something like this, you cuold probably find a cheaper program, but let's say you did this one. Taking three courses, the equivilent of 12 credits, would be $5400. That's like, one application cycle. But instead of wasting money and lowering your chances by being a re-applicant, you've raised your chances by showing them that you can do upper-level work, and raising your gpa a little. Now you can spend less applying the first and only time. Just one way to do it. Many state schools will let you take classes there after you have finished your bachelors degree, and these will probably be cheaper. You may even be able to do 2 semesters at that cost, while working to make money. I only took two courses last semester; i payed $4000 and i work full time, so really this year i'm just breaking even with living expenses, school expenses, and what i make.

 

[QofQuimica]

Nikki, are you an AL resident? If you are, and you are in easy reach of either Mobile or B'ham, you might consider making an appointment with the diversity office at either school to discuss your app. (Note: you must do this *before* you submit AMCAS, not after!) Both UAB and USA almost exclusively take state residents, so if you're interested/willing to stay in AL for med school, they will be your best bet. You might also want to PM Dr. Pardi, who is an AL resident currently applying to med school, for advice and input on applying to the AL schools. I can tell you a little bit about UAB, but I applied there a few years ago as an OOS resident, so he'd be a more current and better source of info. to you.

 

[168533]

Nikki, are you an AL resident? If you are, and you are in easy reach of either Mobile or B'ham, you might consider making an appointment with the diversity office at either school to discuss your app. (Note: you must do this *before* you submit AMCAS, not after!) Both UAB and USA almost exclusively take state residents, so if you're interested/willing to stay in AL for med school, they will be your best bet. You might also want to PM Dr. Pardi, who is an AL resident currently applying to med school, for advice and input on applying to the AL schools. I can tell you a little bit about UAB, but I applied there a few years ago as an OOS resident, so he'd be a more current and better source of info. to you.

I'm actually from the Mississippi gulf coast area, and I'm currently attending USA undergrad. I plan to apply to to both (when I do apply), I know USA considers my area of Mississippi to be instate for undergrad, and I think it does for medical school. Right now, I'm leaning more towards strengthening my application before I apply. All of you have given really good advice and obviously you all know what you're talking about because of the many acceptances that's been received here. I want to make my application as good as I can get it, and an extra year is probably the best option.

 

[QofQuimica]

I'm actually from the Mississippi gulf coast area, and I'm currently attending USA undergrad. I plan to apply to to both (when I do apply), I know USA considers my area of Mississippi to be instate for undergrad, and I think it does for medical school. Right now, I'm leaning more towards strengthening my application before I apply. All of you have given really good advice and obviously you all know what you're talking about because of the many acceptances that's been received here. I want to make my application as good as I can get it, and an extra year is probably the best option.

Ok, in that case you should make an appointment at the USA diversity office to discuss your app and the med school state residency requirements. Before you go, print out an unofficial copy of your transcript, and make a list of all your ECs (like a CV). That will help the advisors give you a better idea of what you need to do to make your app as strong as possible. Also, double check and make sure that the state residency rules for the med school are the same as for the UG; sometimes med schools have different rules. to you.

 

[caliprincess]

I'd be grateful to get in any where really, though I have some schools that are reaches. Another thing with taking a year off that in order to make my application more stronger number wise is that I can't really afford some of those post-bac/SMP programs. I've been fortunate enough to not to be in a great deal of debt during my undergrad career, but some of those programs are really expensive, especially the competitive ones. I don't really want to spend $50,000+ when I don't have to.

Nikki,

Echoing off of everyone else's advice, do all that you can to strengthen your undergraduate GPA before applying. It is really important to get your science GPA as close to a 3.0 as possible. Even if that means taking a few classes the summer after you graduate, it will still be cheaper to do than to apply with no luck or do an SMP right off the bat. Believe me, I wish I did that prior to enrolling into an SMP because it has really hurt me this cycle. Although I have a 4.0 GPA in my graduate program, I have been screened out by most schools, I have ZERO acceptances, and $40,000 of student loans for the year. Furthermore, please be mindful that you should only do an SMP as a last option. I've been told by many adcoms that if you do not do well (3.5+), you are basically shooting yourself in the foot for medical school admission. You have to do far above average in these programs to increase your competitiveness.

Also, please adequately prepare yourself for the MCAT. If you have a low GPA, a stellar score will not replace it, however, adcoms will truly take a second look at your application. Hope this helps...stay strong and study hard!!!

 

[168533]

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