Administrators meddling in OR operations

[Dr. Rude]

Tomato tomAto... if that is the only thing you have paid attention in this thread you must be really bored

See my user name. Always interested in variations of insults.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[lotsapain]

See my user name. Always interested in variations of insults.

Must be an amusing hobby ….nurses must love you

 

[nimbus]

I’ve previously worked at hospitals with absolutely toxic and shameful behavior on the parts of admins.

But, luckily at my current job the CMO and CEO are actually both excellent. They do keep misbehaving surgeons in check (and because of that their level of misbehavior is comparatively low grade by external standards). And they advocate for staff very well. It doesn’t pay the most, but I’m not inclined to leave for money because the working environment is way way above average.

So there’s hope…

I have a similar setup. I don’t have the highest pay or the best lifestyle but all our surgeons behave and 98% of them are extremely collegial. I’m going on 22yrs now at the same hospital. Both the hospital CEO and the hospital system CEO have been around longer than me.

 

[nimbus]

See my user name. Always interested in variations of insults.

Doubt it.

Honestly the name is ironic. You’ve always been a gentleman even when we disagree.

 

[Robotic Wis-Hipple]

Physician unionizing is a bad idea. Just look at nurses. They’re stuck with same non-negotiable pay rate, and inability to find flexible work. Plus, they have to pay wasteful and mandatory union fees that go to the pockets of greedy, dysfunctional leadership.

Wtf are you talking about? Literally none of the nurses in the same dept in the same hospital make the same hourly rate, work the same hourly shift, the same number of days, or have any strict rules about not jumping ship to the hospital just down the street for another $3/hr. And that’s before we even bring up travelers.

After x hours/week they get an increase in their hourly rate, a weekend rate, a night time differential, etc. Seriously what are you talking about?

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Tomato tomAto... if that is the only thing you have paid attention in this thread you must be really bored

I don’t like tomatoes but you can pass me some of that Woosestershire sawce for this spicy derail

 

[amyl]

Great post. I agree with most of what you stated with the exception of point #2. Pilots at some of the legacy airlines do have a CRNA equivalent and it is the regional pilot. Even though they may work under a very similar company name, the mainline pilot and the regional pilot are part of two entirely separate employee groups (and the regional pilot on average has far less flying experience). One of the major objectives of the mainline carrier’s union is to protect their flying (scope) from being given away to the regional pilots. “Scope” is a very, very big deal for mainline pilots at an airline like United, but is likely a non factor for pilots at Southwest (a company which doesn’t have regional pilots).

I’m married to an airline pilot also.

But regional airline pilots are still pilots… with less hours/experience- more like a resident than a crna. They aren’t pilot assistants. The training is the same - the big guys just have more hours… and most regional pilots eventually flow to the majors. My step son is building hours at frontier but will end up at American. Who’s your spouse fly for?
Being a pilot is an excellent gig… I wish I knew

 

[IIMC]

But regional airline pilots are still pilots… with less hours/experience- more like a resident than a crna. They aren’t pilot assistants. The training is the same - the big guys just have more hours… and most regional pilots eventually flow to the majors. My step son is building hours at frontier but will end up at American. Who’s your spouse fly for?
Being a pilot is an excellent gig… I wish I knew

My point was that pilots deal with some pretty bitter turf wars just like we do as anesthesiologists. No it is not a perfect analogy, and I’m not in any way trying to disparage regional pilots. They are fully trained and licensed pilots and many will flow to the majors over time. But spend a little time on airlinepilotforums and you can almost taste the vitriol when pilots talk about scope creep. When a company decided to furlough some of its mainline pilots in 2020 the company was forced to remove some physical seats from certain regional planes. Incredible. Our anesthesia forums get a little heated from time to time but the pilot forums take the prize.

My husband flies for United and absolutely loves his job. I didn’t realize how bad we have it in medicine until I met him and learned about aviation. I tell so many young people to consider becoming a pilot. Yes, furloughs are always a threat but you can put a career in aviation on hold for years and then jump right back in. I’d love to take a 1-2 year sabbatical from medicine but licensing/credentialing make it very hard to re-enter.

 

[IIMC]

i think IIMC is joking.

Totally serious.

 

[raztes]

Totally serious.

We are already marginalized to death, pay enough fees, and already have way too many administrators and execs getting paid our earned revenue telling us what to do. Free market and capitalism prevails! Personal choice and negotiation is better IMO than yet another layer of administrator dysfunction controlling us. But yes, if you’re stuck in a job that you can’t leave for whatever reason then maybe a union makes sense.

 

[anbuitachi]

Totally serious.

completely quoted the wrong person haha.
i meant raztes

We are already marginalized to death, pay enough fees, and already have way too many administrators and execs getting paid our earned revenue telling us what to do. Free market and capitalism prevails! Personal choice and negotiation is better IMO than yet another layer of administrator dysfunction controlling us. But yes, if you’re stuck in a job that you can’t leave for whatever reason then maybe a union makes sense.

 

[anbuitachi]

We are already marginalized to death, pay enough fees, and already have way too many administrators and execs getting paid our earned revenue telling us what to do. Free market and capitalism prevails! Personal choice and negotiation is better IMO than yet another layer of administrator dysfunction controlling us. But yes, if you’re stuck in a job that you can’t leave for whatever reason then maybe a union makes sense.

union doesnt control you. yes you have to pay fees but usually worth it. if you look at doctors council union contracts for example, they negotiated 2-3% raise during covid per year.

 

[midazzoler]

Since we’re using the pilot market to describe what can happen to anesthesia I feel obligated to point out the fate of the young pilots who got started 20 years ago. My old roommates who got degrees in aviation in the early 2000s couldn’t find flying jobs and all took positions in administration or switched fields. Fast forward to today and my pilot family members are getting whatever they want. Life comes at you fast.

 

[amyl]

Since we’re using the pilot market to describe what can happen to anesthesia I feel obligated to point out the fate of the young pilots who got started 20 years ago. My old roommates who got degrees in aviation in the early 2000s couldn’t find flying jobs and all took positions in administration or switched fields. Fast forward to today and my pilot family members are getting whatever they want. Life comes at you fast.

Anesthesia has cycles too. My husband flew planes in Africa when that happened. One month on and one month off…. Like locums. There were jobs just not good jobs lol. When you stick through the lean times you also profit in the fat… anesthesia isn’t that different.
My husband is at American. He’s pretty happy with his union.
I honestly can’t complain though… my job is pretty sweet. I wish I could sleep in more often and have more time and energy to work out but I bank and don’t really work that hard.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Anesthesia has cycles too. My husband flew planes in Africa when that happened. One month on and one month off…. Like locums. There were jobs just not good jobs lol. When you stick through the lean times you also profit in the fat… anesthesia isn’t that different.
My husband is at American. He’s pretty happy with his union.
I honestly can’t complain though… my job is pretty sweet. I wish I could sleep in more often and have more time and energy to work out but I bank and don’t really work that hard.

do you get free upgrades to business/first?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Anesthesia has cycles too. My husband flew planes in Africa when that happened. One month on and one month off…. Like locums. There were jobs just not good jobs lol. When you stick through the lean times you also profit in the fat… anesthesia isn’t that different.
My husband is at American. He’s pretty happy with his union.
I honestly can’t complain though… my job is pretty sweet. I wish I could sleep in more often and have more time and energy to work out but I bank and don’t really work that hard.

My friend lost a 7 figure pension to creditors while in his mid 40's during one of the bankruptcies of his airline. He moved to another carrier and is doing quite well now. Don't know about his 401 k though.

 

[lotsapain]

Anesthesia has cycles too. My husband flew planes in Africa when that happened. One month on and one month off…. Like locums. There were jobs just not good jobs lol. When you stick through the lean times you also profit in the fat… anesthesia isn’t that different.
My husband is at American. He’s pretty happy with his union.
I honestly can’t complain though… my job is pretty sweet. I wish I could sleep in more often and have more time and energy to work out but I bank and don’t really work that hard.

The biggest advantage about airlines is very strict set or rules and guidelines both in terms of plane checkouts, start up procedures, take off weight distribution etc. (yes I flew little planes) but most importantly WORK HOUR rules to prevent fatigues and resultant loss of life due to mistakes. The point is the train of non-healthcare trained admins is not stopping if anything its gaining speed... we are way off topic here... at any rate .... all the snowflakes who come in "to do my job and go home...." are also partially to blame. Pilots negotiated for themselves so should we.... we need more clinicians in the CEO seats.... and I am not talking about a family medicine physician who became a CMO through murky side deals, I am talking about patient-centric forward looking providers who actively took on increasing responsibility and are respected by their peers. A pure admin cannot do what they do AND do the work of a physician while physicians can certainly do the opposite.