Administrators meddling in OR operations

[lotsapain]

This is mostly for the more seasoned folks with admin experience..... Having ran ORs/Led a few departments of varying sizes
the issue of administration (ie CMOs, CEOs, etc.) and some "protected" surgeons (who are plugged into the hospital board etc)
meddling in OR operations thinking they have the answers and pushing chairs, floor runners etc etc around is (IMO) is a growing
trend across the board.... for those who were able to successfully mitigate this I am curious to hear as to how it was accomplished.
These days everyone and their mother who have never been inside an OR or even around think they know OR operations. With
hospitals incorporating groups it is even more of an issue.... this is more evident in more rural practices or standalone hospitals
with limited support from the larger system. Being at the whim of the few surgeons available is even more of an issue.
Again, I am curious to hear if anyone was successful in closing the floodgates and drawing a hard line with people not
sticking noses in their affairs.

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[neutro]

the issue is always “you don’t bring business so you don’t have a say”

 

[kidthor]

the issue is always “you don’t bring business so you don’t have a say”

Well... pilots don't bring the airlines business either and yet they're the sine qua non of flying, just as we are in the OR.

I think there's great downside in us collectively viewing our services that way. The admins want you to think and feel that way - that you're inessential and lucky to be groveling for scraps (at whatever time they throw them your way). If anything the admins are the ones who truly don't bring in any business.

 

[neutro]

Well... pilots don't bring the airlines business either and yet they're the sine qua non of flying, just as we are in the OR.

I think there's great downside in us collectively viewing our services that way. The admins want you to think and feel that way - that you're inessential and lucky to be groveling for scraps (at whatever time they throw them your way). If anything the admins are the ones who truly don't bring in any business.

I mean the same can be said about air hostesses. God forbid, snacks and water aren't served and public goes haywire. Pilots have the pleasure of flying, but they didn't build the plane, brand or the airport. No one even knows who the pilot is.

Again, I am not downplaying how great anesthesiologists are. I was pointing out this fact from a simple economics perspective. And don't worry, my treatment by admin as a pain physician doing injections and bringing revenue in facility fee plus ancillary services was generally a lot better than as an anesthesiologist. I had a full census of patients, which admin viewed as "clients". We don't have "clients" as anesthesiologists.

 

[narcotics999]

the issue is always “you don’t bring business so you don’t have a say”

What business do administrators bring in?

 

[DirtDocMD]

The best way, in my opinion, to stop a lot of this behavior, is to put a SERIOUS financial cost on the hospital for any work done past 3pm (or certainly after 5pm).

Make them PAY for THEIR inefficiency. Same applies to any OR/site they want covered that isn’t getting at least 50% “utilization”.

Yes, some of this is covered in a group’s “subsidy” that they may be getting from the hospital, but often, the hospital thinks just because they are paying a subsidy, they have “free reign” to abuse the anesthesia dept, all day AND night.

If they see (in an itemized, weekly or monthly fashion) that they’re paying an extra $500 per hour, for any elective room after hours, or kicking in an extra $1500-$2000, whenever they schedule 3 hours worth of cases in an 8 hour column, or pay an additional $500 per hour for “non-emergent” cases done on a weekend or late at night, they MIGHT be more likely to cut the crap….

(Try getting a plumber to your house after 6pm, or on a weekend, and see if they don’t charge you extra….)

 

[Angus Avagadro]

What business do administrators bring in?

They negotiate and bring in more insurance contracts that don't pay enough to cover costs, and try to make it up on volume.

 

[DirtDocMD]

They negotiate and bring in more insurance contracts that don't pay enough to cover costs, and try to make it up on volume.

This sounds like my place. Bring in more unfunded/Medicare/Medicaid work, that the hospital and the surgeons make SOME money on, but “Anesthesia” loses money on EVERY SINGLE ONE.

THEN, act all “shocked” at contract renewal time, when we point out we need a larger subsidy, to cover the labor costs covering cases that reimburse at HALF the current average CRNA hourly salary.

 

[neutro]

What business do administrators bring in?

None, but surgeons do and they cater to them.

 

[neutro]

This comes to mind. “Pencil factory workers”

 

[ambiturner]

Always comes down to data. Figure out if the people whining are actually bringing what they say to the table by auditing their OR utilization If a surgeon is being obnoxious but is utilizing their block time at only 50-75%, the institution must choose to either hold their feet to the fire or eat the loss. If the anesthesia group is employed and they’re paying for your time, great. If you’re private and trying to survive on fee for service that’s trouble.

 

[dannyboy1]

Why do you have any contact with admin? Just get through your day and leave. If you get paid by the hour there are no problems….

 

[Blockit]

Here’s the thing: the administrators run the hospital and report only to the board of trustees. Usually the board of trustees are a bunch of rich shysters who have limited involvement or understanding of how a hospital should run. They sit on lots of boards. So basically these administrators get to do whatever they want until they break something.
If you are unlucky enough to work at a hospital where your administrators decide they want to try their hand at managing an operating room, the only likely answer is to move on. Because these administrators are given wide latitude by their lackadaisical board of trustees to do this type of stuff. And the only time the administrators are ever held to account is when they break it completely. All of these warnings that you give to administration about “this isn’t safe, this isn’t going to work out, this will result in inadequate staffing, will have trouble recruiting” will fall on deaf ears until the facility or the operating room is completely broken and everyone wants to investigate and try to figure out why it happened. Nobody will care up to that point.
We read stories of destruction of hospital systems in this forum on a nearly daily basis. And no matter how many times it has happened in the past, it continues to happen. That should tell you something.

 

[Dr. Rude]

Here’s the thing: the administrators run the hospital and report only to the board of trustees. Usually the board of trustees are a bunch of rich shysters who have limited involvement or understanding of how a hospital should run. They sit on lots of boards. So basically these administrators get to do whatever they want until they break something.
If you are unlucky enough to work at a hospital where your administrators decide they want to try their hand at managing an operating room, the only likely answer is to move on. Because these administrators are given wide latitude by their lackadaisical board of trustees to do this type of stuff. And the only time the administrators are ever held to account is when they break it completely. All of these warnings that you give to administration about “this isn’t safe, this isn’t going to work out, this will result in inadequate staffing, will have trouble recruiting” will fall on deaf ears until the facility or the operating room is completely broken and everyone wants to investigate and try to figure out why it happened. Nobody will care up to that point.
We read stories of destruction of hospital systems in this forum on a nearly daily basis. And no matter how many times it has happened in the past, it continues to happen. That should tell you something.

But they often sell goods and services to the hospital. One hand washes the other.

 

[neutro]

Why do you have any contact with admin? Just get through your day and leave. If you get paid by the hour there are no problems….

yeah...this why locums is such a good option these days.
it makes the work transactional and the headache of politics, group dynamics (which are 80% dictated by the environment created by admin and surgeons) is no longer an issue.

Show up, do your job well, and go home.

Let someone else who cares enough to worry about "managing a practice".
Its emotionally and physically draining.

 

[lotsapain]

Here’s the thing: the administrators run the hospital and report only to the board of trustees. Usually the board of trustees are a bunch of rich shysters who have limited involvement or understanding of how a hospital should run. They sit on lots of boards. So basically these administrators get to do whatever they want until they break something.
If you are unlucky enough to work at a hospital where your administrators decide they want to try their hand at managing an operating room, the only likely answer is to move on. Because these administrators are given wide latitude by their lackadaisical board of trustees to do this type of stuff. And the only time the administrators are ever held to account is when they break it completely. All of these warnings that you give to administration about “this isn’t safe, this isn’t going to work out, this will result in inadequate staffing, will have trouble recruiting” will fall on deaf ears until the facility or the operating room is completely broken and everyone wants to investigate and try to figure out why it happened. Nobody will care up to that point.
We read stories of destruction of hospital systems in this forum on a nearly daily basis. And no matter how many times it has happened in the past, it continues to happen. That should tell you something.

Indeed that seems to be the ultimate solution to force a breaking point to prove a point … there are 2 issues with that - A patients ultimately suffer B no one is irreplaceable….. indeed the answer is to move on but the list of places to move on to shrinks quickly. Hospitals make money on facility fees they often cover the lack of proper billing for anesthesia services. Again I am curious to hear from someone who has full control of the OR

 

[anbuitachi]

form a union. its difficult to change anything individually as an employee. but just like other professions, unionizing is often one of the only realistic solutions

 

[ryanjmy]

form a union. its difficult to change anything individually as an employee

The collective bargaining organization you’re referring to used to be called groups.

 

[T-burglar]

The collective bargaining organization you’re referring to used to be called groups.

Yes this used to be called a private practice

 

[pgg]

yeah...this why locums is such a good option these days.
it makes the work transactional and the headache of politics, group dynamics (which are 80% dictated by the environment created by admin and surgeons) is no longer an issue.

Show up, do your job well, and go home.

Let someone else who cares enough to worry about "managing a practice".
Its emotionally and physically draining.

Being a passive aggressive clock punching employee works great, so long as the job market is boiling hot like it is now.

Don't let recency bias blind you to what'll happen the instant you don't have six offers per day for $400/hr locums work. When that day comes - and it will, because everything is cyclic - you may find that voluntarily becoming an uninvolved clock puncher has left you extra vulnerable to exploitation and abuse as a truly interchangeable, easily replaced, hourly cog in their machine.

Caveat emptor.

 

[neutro]

Being a passive aggressive clock punching employee works great, so long as the job market is boiling hot like it is now.

Don't let recency bias blind you to what'll happen the instant you don't have six offers per day for $400/hr locums work. When that day comes - and it will, because everything is cyclic - you may find that voluntarily becoming an uninvolved clock puncher has left you extra vulnerable to exploitation and abuse as a truly interchangeable, easily replaced, hourly cog in their machine.

Caveat emptor.

Thanks for the insight but I’m not a locums physician

 

[pgg]

Thanks for the insight but I’m not a locums physician

The risk isn't confined to locums physicians, but anyone who's employed at today's favorable rates. Being a faceless clock punching cog has its appeal but when the market shifts the other way, you're still a faceless clock punching cog whether you're a 1099 locums or W2 employee.

 

[neutro]

The risk isn't confined to locums physicians, but anyone who's employed at today's favorable rates. Being a faceless clock punching cog has its appeal but when the market shifts the other way, you're still a faceless clock punching cog whether you're a 1099 locums or W2 employee.

Yea well no one can predict the future so everyone should do what’s best for them and their families given the facts and circumstances at hand. Focus on today.
There is no one size fits all answer.

Let the market decide what’s the best option

 

[anbuitachi]

The collective bargaining organization you’re referring to used to be called groups.

Yes this used to be called a private practice

sure, but size matters. if each PP is like an individual union, its weak, but they can replace you with another union. but if its like nurses union, and involves most doctors, then its much difficult to squash, and will function like a real labor union.

as costs go up and reimbursements continue to drop, PP will be less and less, and employee model more an d more. we will see much larger unions

 

[dannyboy1]

Being a passive aggressive clock punching employee works great, so long as the job market is boiling hot like it is now.

Don't let recency bias blind you to what'll happen the instant you don't have six offers per day for $400/hr locums work. When that day comes - and it will, because everything is cyclic - you may find that voluntarily becoming an uninvolved clock puncher has left you extra vulnerable to exploitation and abuse as a truly interchangeable, easily replaced, hourly cog in their machine.

Caveat emptor.

There is really nothing you can do to avoid this. Show me the anesthesiologist who does such a good job that he is irreplaceable. Not worth the headache.

 

[anaesthetic]

Being a passive aggressive clock punching employee works great, so long as the job market is boiling hot like it is now.

Don't let recency bias blind you to what'll happen the instant you don't have six offers per day for $400/hr locums work. When that day comes - and it will, because everything is cyclic - you may find that voluntarily becoming an uninvolved clock puncher has left you extra vulnerable to exploitation and abuse as a truly interchangeable, easily replaced, hourly cog in their machine.

Caveat emptor.

I think the other side of this argument is that further entrenching yourself within the hospital system by being on a bunch of “committees” and doing free labor only delays the inevitable. We see it time and time again. We’ve always been replaceable.

 

[Hoya11]

I think the other side of this argument is that further entrenching yourself within the hospital system by being on a bunch of “committees” and doing free labor only delays the inevitable. We see it time and time again. We’ve always been replaceable.

They think you'll still stay on the committee after the changes.. because its an honor

 

[Bertelman]

There is really nothing you can do to avoid this. Show me the anesthesiologist who does such a good job that he is irreplaceable. Not worth the headache.

There’s bound to be some nuance in there. Obviously everyone is replaceable. But in my brief locums stints, I filled in for groups of docs that were just mailing it in.

You can be a value addition to a facility that improves your relationship, and prolongs your career. Or you can just show up, do the minimum, and cash a check.

There will be a day when you burn a bridge punching a clock, and you won’t have 4 more offers in your inbox.

 

[Iso4ane]

To some degree we're all replaceable, some just are a tad little harder to replace than others.

 

[Dr. Rude]

There will be a day when you burn a bridge punching a clock, and you won’t have 4 more offers in your inbox.

 

[IIMC]

Yes, anesthesiologists are largely replaceable cogs but so are pilots. When is the last time anyone has considered who is flying the plane (safeguarding your life) whilst you are at 40,000 ft???? Customers don’t consider their pilots any more than patients consider their anesthesiologists. You don’t book a surgery at a hospital to get a certain anesthesiologist just like you don’t book a flight just to get a certain pilot.

Yet despite the fact that pilots are replaceable (just like us), pilots at major US airlines have achieved remarkable pay/benefit increases in 2022-2023. Why is that? As others have mentioned, collective bargaining. Unions. It’s the only way. And no, a private practice comprising of 100 anesthesiologists isn’t an effective union. A pilot union at a major airline has over 10k pilots. FUPM! Admin/management can absolutely replace 100 over a few years but they can never replace 10k. The only way to achieve strength is in numbers.

So the question we should all be asking is…what is the best way we can organize our labor??

 

[Robotic Wis-Hipple]

The best way, in my opinion, to stop a lot of this behavior, is to put a SERIOUS financial cost on the hospital for any work done past 3pm (or certainly after 5pm).

Make them PAY for THEIR inefficiency. Same applies to any OR/site they want covered that isn’t getting at least 50% “utilization”.

Yes, some of this is covered in a group’s “subsidy” that they may be getting from the hospital, but often, the hospital thinks just because they are paying a subsidy, they have “free reign” to abuse the anesthesia dept, all day AND night.

If they see (in an itemized, weekly or monthly fashion) that they’re paying an extra $500 per hour, for any elective room after hours, or kicking in an extra $1500-$2000, whenever they schedule 3 hours worth of cases in an 8 hour column, or pay an additional $500 per hour for “non-emergent” cases done on a weekend or late at night, they MIGHT be more likely to cut the crap….

(Try getting a plumber to your house after 6pm, or on a weekend, and see if they don’t charge you extra….)

I love this.

But, how are you justifying a higher rate/hr after 3 or 5pm?

We all know late, after hours, and weekend work sucks and it should be paid more but how do you tell the hospital in words they know? The hospital wants to use “fair market value” and then just extrapolate to hours or “FTE’s”.

 

[Hoya11]

I love this.

But, how are you justifying a higher rate/hr after 3 or 5pm?

We all know late, after hours, and weekend work sucks and it should be paid more but how do you tell the hospital in words they know? The hospital wants to use “fair market value” and then just extrapolate to hours or “FTE’s”.

"We have to incentivize these late shifts because we cant find enough people who want to stay after 3pm"

 

[neutro]

"We have to incentivize these late shifts because we cant find enough people who want to stay after 3pm"

Toodaloo

 

[amyl]

Since yall made the pilot analogy I will weigh in as my husband is a pilot and talks lots.

The airlines treat the pilots only as well as they have to. It’s a business. Period. When they could pay pilots less- they did. When Covid hit the furloughed lots of guys at the bottom. Now the pendulum has swung back and pilots call the shots.
There are important differences between pilots (smarter) and doctors (dumber). 1 they have a union that fights aggressively for them 2 no one can fly but them… flight attendants can’t (no crna equivalents) 3 at the commercial level the process is pretty good at weeding out ****ty providers and there are always two pilots on every commercial plane

 

[IIMC]

Great post. I agree with most of what you stated with the exception of point #2. Pilots at some of the legacy airlines do have a CRNA equivalent and it is the regional pilot. Even though they may work under a very similar company name, the mainline pilot and the regional pilot are part of two entirely separate employee groups (and the regional pilot on average has far less flying experience). One of the major objectives of the mainline carrier’s union is to protect their flying (scope) from being given away to the regional pilots. “Scope” is a very, very big deal for mainline pilots at an airline like United, but is likely a non factor for pilots at Southwest (a company which doesn’t have regional pilots).

I’m married to an airline pilot also.

 

[lotsapain]

Being a passive aggressive clock punching employee works great, so long as the job market is boiling hot like it is now.

Don't let recency bias blind you to what'll happen the instant you don't have six offers per day for $400/hr locums work. When that day comes - and it will, because everything is cyclic - you may find that voluntarily becoming an uninvolved clock puncher has left you extra vulnerable to exploitation and abuse as a truly interchangeable, easily replaced, hourly cog in their machine.

Caveat emptor.

An excellent retort

 

[lotsapain]

Yes, anesthesiologists are largely replaceable cogs but so are pilots. When is the last time anyone has considered who is flying the plane (safeguarding your life) whilst you are at 40,000 ft???? Customers don’t consider their pilots any more than patients consider their anesthesiologists. You don’t book a surgery at a hospital to get a certain anesthesiologist just like you don’t book a flight just to get a certain pilot.

Yet despite the fact that pilots are replaceable (just like us), pilots at major US airlines have achieved remarkable pay/benefit increases in 2022-2023. Why is that? As others have mentioned, collective bargaining. Unions. It’s the only way. And no, a private practice comprising of 100 anesthesiologists isn’t an effective union. A pilot union at a major airline has over 10k pilots. FUPM! Admin/management can absolutely replace 100 over a few years but they can never replace 10k. The only way to achieve strength is in numbers.

So the question we should all be asking is…what is the best way we can organize our labor??

Likely unionizing is the answer. Cedars did that. I was under the impression however that doctors are not allowed to unionize. This has to an anesthesia only union.... watch ASA push back hard, they do very little to help the regular guy (heavily academic weighed), they take no set stances on anything......

To summarize I have not met a single admin who actually cares about the patient, the staff or safety. They are mostly there to protect their behind and do anything to keep their job at any cost. To get to CMO/CEO level etc you have to leave your soul/decency at the door. Show me a hospital that stands up to bully surgeons, protect their staff at all costs and I will work there till end of days....

 

[Gern Blansten]

Great post. I agree with most of what you stated with the exception of point #2. Pilots at some of the legacy airlines do have a CRNA equivalent and it is the regional pilot. Even though they may work under a very similar company name, the mainline pilot and the regional pilot are part of two entirely separate employee groups (and the regional pilot on average has far less flying experience). One of the major objectives of the mainline carrier’s union is to protect their flying (scope) from being given away to the regional pilots. “Scope” is a very, very big deal for mainline pilots at an airline like United, but is likely a non factor for pilots at Southwest (a company which doesn’t have regional pilots).

I’m married to an airline pilot also.

But isn’t that more of a “placing value in seniority” thing? There’s not really a group that is coming in from the flight attendant ranks and saying “we can also fly and do the same job, we just have a different pathway to get there.” Same idea with attorneys and paralegals and other fields. Doctors have done a poor job of protecting the value of being a doctor. Every specialty has scope of practice issues, we just happen to be the one where the most has been given away. I saw an add from the AMA fighting scope issues for the ophthalmologists. This has been going on for three decades. It seems like they have held the line a bit better than our specialty. Of course, in our specialty, we cannot physically do 100% of the work needed plus the insurers made it more profitable years ago to supervise rather than actually do the work solo. So here we are, with mid levels that say we’re not needed and administrators wondering if they are right.
CRNAs are really trying to “kill the golden goose.” They have it really good right now and are trying to bury our specialty of medicine. I don’t think they realize that they have one of the best jobs in the world. They get to come to work and do cool stuff and if they screw up, they have a liability sponge who was supervising their screw up. If they ever succeed in getting rid of physicians, they will likely have their salaries ratcheted down and their liabilities ramped up.
I know many CRNAs who have no interest in independence for those reasons. Yet their leaders are pushing them to marginalize our specialty.
It will end poorly for all. CRNAs, during these good years of high salaries and high demand, have been exposed as the mercenaries that they are. Administration will feel zero loyalty to them when the tables turn. I know several admins who despise the choke hold that this group has employed over the last five years. If the sheer number of CAAs ever reaches a point where hospitals can get enough of them, I think they would go CAA only. That seems like a pipe dream in the current market, but we shall see what happens. These are the CRNAs good years. Let’s see what happens when the market flips a bit. It doesn’t really seem to matter for us because they are burning down the place as they do this. AI failed last time, but it probably won’t with the next iteration, so we could even potentially see a complete paradigm shift and market disruption.

 

[anbuitachi]

Yes, anesthesiologists are largely replaceable cogs but so are pilots. When is the last time anyone has considered who is flying the plane (safeguarding your life) whilst you are at 40,000 ft???? Customers don’t consider their pilots any more than patients consider their anesthesiologists. You don’t book a surgery at a hospital to get a certain anesthesiologist just like you don’t book a flight just to get a certain pilot.

Yet despite the fact that pilots are replaceable (just like us), pilots at major US airlines have achieved remarkable pay/benefit increases in 2022-2023. Why is that? As others have mentioned, collective bargaining. Unions. It’s the only way. And no, a private practice comprising of 100 anesthesiologists isn’t an effective union. A pilot union at a major airline has over 10k pilots. FUPM! Admin/management can absolutely replace 100 over a few years but they can never replace 10k. The only way to achieve strength is in numbers.

So the question we should all be asking is…what is the best way we can organize our labor??

Likely unionizing is the answer. Cedars did that. I was under the impression however that doctors are not allowed to unionize. This has to an anesthesia only union.... watch ASA push back hard, they do very little to help the regular guy (heavily academic weighed), they take no set stances on anything......

To summarize I have not met a single admin who actually cares about the patient, the staff or safety. They are mostly there to protect their behind and do anything to keep their job at any cost. To get to CMO/CEO level etc you have to leave your soul/decency at the door. Show me a hospital that stands up to bully surgeons, protect their staff at all costs and I will work there till end of days....

Thats one of the problem. I dont understand why SO many doctors are poorly educated on things outside of medicine. Doctors can unionize and CAN go on strike. I cant believe the # of times i've heard those lines (doctors cant unionize/strike, etc), doctors are brainwashed!

This is a piece recently published in NYPost

Our health care is now at risk: NYC’s frontline doctors need your help

We are fighting for a fair contract and are seeking the public’s support during our negotiations. I am proud to be part of this coalition of doctors in public service. Help us continue to have the …

www.nydailynews.com

Doctors union is in negotiations with NYC for their next contract right now. It's a union with ~2000 physicians and is expanding. Recently Allina health voted to unionize with doctors council.

Allina Health clinicians to form largest group of unionized physicians in US private sector

Hundreds of Allina Health physicians have voted in favor of unionizing, creating what their representation believes to be the largest collection of unionized private-sector physicians in the countr | Primary and urgent care clinicians' 325-200 vote was announced late last week and follows...

www.fiercehealthcare.com

(funny thing is this union apparently also have some NP/dentist or something... but its MOSTLY physicians)

 

[neutro]

Hahaha NP in a doctors union

Can’t make this up

 

[lotsapain]

Thats one of the problem. I dont understand why SO many doctors are poorly educated on things outside of medicine. Doctors can unionize and CAN go on strike. I cant believe the # of times i've heard those lines (doctors cant unionize/strike, etc), doctors are brainwashed!

This is a piece recently published in NYPost

Our health care is now at risk: NYC’s frontline doctors need your help

We are fighting for a fair contract and are seeking the public’s support during our negotiations. I am proud to be part of this coalition of doctors in public service. Help us continue to have the …

www.nydailynews.com

Doctors union is in negotiations with NYC for their next contract right now. It's a union with ~2000 physicians and is expanding. Recently Allina health voted to unionize with doctors council.

Allina Health clinicians to form largest group of unionized physicians in US private sector

Hundreds of Allina Health physicians have voted in favor of unionizing, creating what their representation believes to be the largest collection of unionized private-sector physicians in the countr | Primary and urgent care clinicians' 325-200 vote was announced late last week and follows...

www.fiercehealthcare.com

(funny thing is this union apparently also have some NP/dentist or something... but its MOSTLY physicians)

Doctors are wooses.... let's see how many here want to really join a union where their salary will be summarily negotiated essentially killing the ability to retort with things as "I do not get out of bed for less then $350 an hour" This would be good for those who are decent workers, really good for those who are lazy and marginal for those who are greedy......

 

[anbuitachi]

Doctors are wooses.... let's see how many here want to really join a union where their salary will be summarily negotiated essentially killing the ability to retort with things as "I do not get out of bed for less then $350 an hour" This would be good for those who are decent workers, really good for those who are lazy and marginal for those who are greedy......

pilots are wooses i guess.

 

[raztes]

Doctors are wooses.... let's see how many here want to really join a union where their salary will be summarily negotiated essentially killing the ability to retort with things as "I do not get out of bed for less then $350 an hour" This would be good for those who are decent workers, really good for those who are lazy and marginal for those who are greedy......

Physician unionizing is a bad idea. Just look at nurses. They’re stuck with same non-negotiable pay rate, and inability to find flexible work. Plus, they have to pay wasteful and mandatory union fees that go to the pockets of greedy, dysfunctional leadership.

 

[Dr. Rude]

Doctors are wooses..........

I learned something new. I always thought it was “wusses” or “wussies”.

Thank you for educating me.

 

[abolt18]

I learned something new. I always thought it was “wusses” or “wussies”.

Thank you for educating me.

I think Wuss/wusses/wussies/wussy is the more typical spelling

 

[IIMC]

Physician unionizing is a bad idea. Just look at nurses. They’re stuck with same non-negotiable pay rate, and inability to find flexible work. Plus, they have to pay wasteful and mandatory union fees that go to the pockets of greedy, dysfunctional leadership.

Are you sure about that? Nurses at my hospital got a 25% pay increase in 2022, some of the pilot groups got about a 40% pay increase in 2023, and didn’t UAW get 25% last year?? I’m not saying if you are part of a union you are on easy street but but they have gotten some pretty impressive wins over the past few years.

 

[kidthor]

To summarize I have not met a single admin who actually cares about the patient, the staff or safety. They are mostly there to protect their behind and do anything to keep their job at any cost. To get to CMO/CEO level etc you have to leave your soul/decency at the door. Show me a hospital that stands up to bully surgeons, protect their staff at all costs and I will work there till end of days....

I’ve previously worked at hospitals with absolutely toxic and shameful behavior on the parts of admins.

But, luckily at my current job the CMO and CEO are actually both excellent. They do keep misbehaving surgeons in check (and because of that their level of misbehavior is comparatively low grade by external standards). And they advocate for staff very well. It doesn’t pay the most, but I’m not inclined to leave for money because the working environment is way way above average.

So there’s hope…

 

[lotsapain]

I learned something new. I always thought it was “wusses” or “wussies”.

Thank you for educating me.

Tomato tomAto... if that is the only thing you have paid attention in this thread you must be really bored

 

[lotsapain]

I’ve previously worked at hospitals with absolutely toxic and shameful behavior on the parts of admins.

But, luckily at my current job the CMO and CEO are actually both excellent. They do keep misbehaving surgeons in check (and because of that their level of misbehavior is comparatively low grade by external standards). And they advocate for staff very well. It doesn’t pay the most, but I’m not inclined to leave for money because the working environment is way way above average.

So there’s hope…

That maybe indeed an exception and not the rule. Usually admins have more power in either a well populated area where there are plenty of surgeons who can rotate in and out, or if its an institution with a big name that attracts attention. Alternatively, if the bar was set high way back when then it is certainly easier to keep that up. I am not saying it is impossible ....