Actual Starting Salaries

[EctopicFetus]

Also, have to keep in mind the late start in retirement. So you have to put away more to end up at a decent spot in retirement.

Remember docs make good money now. What many physicians and people don’t understand is opportunity cost. Look i graduated college. I made about 60k in my first year out of college. I worked for a bit.. then I did 4 years of med school. Let’s say that cost me 50k a year in loans.. it also cost me 60k (really more) in income I didn’t earn if I had a normal job. So my 4 years of med school conservatively cost me 440k. throw in interest and it isnt hard to see the 500k hole.. But at that point I still wont make MD money.. I made in the mid 40s as a resident.. So thats another 20k+ in opportunity costs.. interest also accrued on my money in that time. Note I gave myself $0 in pay raises compared to my job.With another 3 years of interest plus costs for stupid USMLE tests and moving (all while havina only minimal say in where I end up ( I matched at my #1 but plenty of people dont), my opportunity cost of med school easily exceeds 600k..

So yeah the lay person who doesn’t understand math, opportunity cost, a progressive tax system and retirement savings isnt crying for me.

Many of my college buddies outearn me. One is a doc, one is a dentist and the rest are MBA types. I truly think I am underpaid and deserve more than i make and frankly I make well above the numbers thrown out on here frequently.

---

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[Brigade4Radiant]

Not sure why you're grouping Apollo with the others. We are physician owned and not owned by a private equity firm.

Apollo is one of the worst to work for I would rather work for Envision the RVU model that Apollo has isn’t RVU they just take money from you.

 

[southerndoc]

Apollo is one of the worst to work for I would rather work for Envision the RVU model that Apollo has isn’t RVU they just take money from you.

Not sure what shop you were at, but their overhead is much less than TH, USACS, etc. and pay more to the docs than any other of the large groups.

 

[Splenda88]

18K per month
- 3K for student loan
- 6K for taxes
- 4k for retirement
- 2K for mortgage
- 1K for car and various expenses

Only leaves 2K at the end of the month. It's amazing how much loans/taxes can eat away into a decent salary.

If you look at the post that I quoted (post #46), it's 18k/month take home pay. If I go by your expenses, the person is left with 8k/month (~100k/year) while putting ~50k/yr into retirement.

 

[TheSingularity]

This

Also, have to keep in mind the late start in retirement. So you have to put away more to end up at a decent spot in retirement.

Remember docs make good money now. What many physicians and people don’t understand is opportunity cost. Look i graduated college. I made about 60k in my first year out of college. I worked for a bit.. then I did 4 years of med school. Let’s say that cost me 50k a year in loans.. it also cost me 60k (really more) in income I didn’t earn if I had a normal job. So my 4 years of med school conservatively cost me 440k. throw in interest and it isnt hard to see the 500k hole.. But at that point I still wont make MD money.. I made in the mid 40s as a resident.. So thats another 20k+ in opportunity costs.. interest also accrued on my money in that time. Note I gave myself $0 in pay raises compared to my job.With another 3 years of interest plus costs for stupid USMLE tests and moving (all while havina only minimal say in where I end up ( I matched at my #1 but plenty of people dont), my opportunity cost of med school easily exceeds 600k..

So yeah the lay person who doesn’t understand math, opportunity cost, a progressive tax system and retirement savings isnt crying for me.

Many of my college buddies outearn me. One is a doc, one is a dentist and the rest are MBA types. I truly think I am underpaid and deserve more than i make and frankly I make well above the numbers thrown out on here frequently.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile

 

[TheSingularity]

Dude just stop.

As is well known, the problem is hospitals and insurers. Physician compensation is approximately 7% of all healthcare expenditures. I couldn't care less what the lay public thinks. Half of them don't even vote.

Yeah... COL in most cities/suburbs in the south is not as outrageous as NY, LA, DC, Boston etc...

I understand becoming a doc is not easy, but if the lay public read these threads and see us complain for making only 18k/month, they would say that physicians are out of touch...

Even if one is paying 3k/month in student loan, you still have 15k left, and15k/month is enough money to make ends meet.

Of course we all would like to make zillion $$$ but we should not go over the top on things

Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile

 

[deleted547339]

I still don’t know why we haven’t taken this to court. My understanding is that PE is illegal in medicine with the anti-fee splitting laws. Seems like this would be our ticket.

 

[Splenda88]

Dude just stop.

As is well known, the problem is hospitals and insurers. Physician compensation is approximately 7% of all healthcare expenditures. I couldn't care less what the lay public thinks. Half of them don't even vote.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile

I am not against physicians making A LOT of $$$; I just think we should tone down our complaints about salary. We should be more concerned about the administrative side of our profession. I have never said we are the problem when it comes to healthcare expenditures.

Only physicians would complain about making 350K+/working 32 hrs/wk... Amazing!

 

[Fox800]

I am not against physicians making A LOT of $$$; I just think we should tone down our complaints about salary. We should be more concerned about the administrative side of our profession. I have never said we are the problem when it comes to healthcare expenditures.

Only physicians would complain about making 350K+/working 32 hrs/wk... Amazing!

If you wanna wipe out medical school loan debt then we won't be complaining so much. Otherwise most professions would complain about having a 10/20/30% pay cut.

When you come out of residency with $300,000+ in loans and no money in retirement, you get to complain.

 

[e30ftw]

I am not against physicians making A LOT of $$$; I just think we should tone down our complaints about salary. We should be more concerned about the administrative side of our profession. I have never said we are the problem when it comes to healthcare expenditures.

Only physicians would complain about making 350K+/working 32 hrs/wk... Amazing!

The issue is being fairly reimbursed for the service you provide. Being altruistic and wanting to receive fair compensation are not mutually exclusive.

Medicare has decided that my professional service of evaluating a patient with chest pain is worth about $175. If group A reimburses me $120 after overhead and group B reimburses me $70, it is quite right to feel taken advantage of by group B and take some form of action.

The ultimate endpoint of the "be happy with what you make because it's still a lot of money" fallacy is, "You can live on a dollar a day in X country, so you should just be happy making 50/hr as a physician."

Personally my income has risen by about 7-10% per year since 2015. Don't expect that to necessarily continue but it's not all bad out there, pending legislation in DC..

 

[e30ftw]

I’m skeptical about this. Just looking through posts in 2015-2017 in this forum and everyone was pretty bullish about EM. ACEP also never had an official statement about the job market like it does now.

I was mainly active from 2012-2015 and remember tons of posts about burnout, job negatives, CMG takeovers, dropping salaries and etc.

I'm still bullish on EM in terms of getting what I want, which is financial independence at a fairly young age.

Feel free to rock the doom-and-gloom though.

 

[Listen2Savage]

I was mainly active from 2012-2015 and remember tons of posts about burnout, job negatives, CMG takeovers, dropping salaries and etc.

I'm still bullish on EM in terms of getting what I want, which is financial independence at a fairly young age.

Feel free to rock the doom-and-gloom though.

 

[NITRAS]

If you wanna wipe out medical school loan debt then we won't be complaining so much. Otherwise most professions would complain about having a 10/20/30% pay cut.

When you come out of residency with $300,000+ in loans and no money in retirement, you get to complain.

Student debt really has no bearing on this discussion IMO. The fact that some people go $300k in debt and others go $100k for their eduction doesn’t imply they have a right to more compensation.

I think the important thing to get from this thread is that physican income isn’t static. Something to think about before going mega-tons of money into debt to become one. You have no guarantee of high income. I’m not sure there is a non-procedure based speciality that you can expect $300+/hour. Also, try to keep lifestyle with plenty of margin, and you ultimately need to adjust your lifestyle if your income drops.

 

[jw3600]

18K per month
- 3K for student loan
- 6K for taxes
- 4k for retirement
- 2K for mortgage
- 1K for car and various expenses

Only leaves 2K at the end of the month. It's amazing how much loans/taxes can eat away into a decent salary.

Why is everyone liking this? The poster he is replying to takes home 18k post tax per month.
So really it’s like 8k “left over” after putting away 50k/year for retirement, 40k/year to loans and modest mortgage payment?
8k left over for what? You’ve already included car and various expenses.
Obviously dropping salaries is a problem and 200k per annum isn’t what it used to be. But 18k post tax a month is fine for any human on planet earth.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Why is everyone liking this? The poster he is replying to takes home 18k post tax per month.
So really it’s like 8k “left over” after putting away 50k/year for retirement, 40k/year to loans and modest mortgage payment?
8k left over for what? You’ve already included car and various expenses.
Obviously dropping salaries is a problem and 200k per annum isn’t what it used to be. But 18k post tax a month is fine for any human on planet earth.

Let’s be clear he was just throwing stuff out there.

His “budget” doesnt include a ton of obvious things including but not limited to utilities, phone, gas, insurance etc. property taxes, food, clothing etc etc.

Now those things aren’t exactly optional. Depending on where you live your property taxes could be a huge ass number.

Also, throw in cost of kids, spouse (if they dont work) etc.

My info above isnt perfect but it just shows how imperfect the other post was as well.

Can someone do well and live ok on 18k a month post tax.. sure. Factor in opportunity cost and its not that awesome.

I also think it is wrong to just throw out numbers we make per hour. Seeing 1pph in a low acuity low volume rural ed shouldn’t pay the same as a high volume high acuity shop.

Reality is we need to get our pound of flesh from the commercial insurers to pay for the self pay and medicaid people we cover. Most EDs would be happy to make roughly $36 an RVU Medicare pays if we got it for all our patients. Some may make more but a ton make less. Food for thought.

 

[jw3600]

Let’s be clear he was just throwing stuff out there.

His “budget” doesnt include a ton of obvious things including but not limited to utilities, phone, gas, insurance etc. property taxes, food, clothing etc etc.

Now those things aren’t exactly optional. Depending on where you live your property taxes could be a huge ass number.

Also, throw in cost of kids, spouse (if they dont work) etc.

My info above isnt perfect but it just shows how imperfect the other post was as well.

Can someone do well and live ok on 18k a month post tax.. sure. Factor in opportunity cost and its not that awesome.

I also think it is wrong to just throw out numbers we make per hour. Seeing 1pph in a low acuity low volume rural ed shouldn’t pay the same as a high volume high acuity shop.

Reality is we need to get our pound of flesh from the commercial insurers to pay for the self pay and medicaid people we cover. Most EDs would be happy to make roughly $36 an RVU Medicare pays if we got it for all our patients. Some may make more but a ton make less. Food for thought.

It’s a not a simple analysis I agree.
I will say some things are grossly generalizable.
18k/month POST TAX in a phenomenal salary.

 

[Splenda88]

Let’s be clear he was just throwing stuff out there.

My info above isnt perfect but it just shows how imperfect the other post was as well.

Can someone do well and live ok on 18k a month post tax.. sure. Factor in opportunity cost and its not that awesome.

I also think it is wrong to just throw out numbers we make per hour. Seeing 1pph in a low acuity low volume rural ed shouldn’t pay the same as a high volume high acuity shop.

Reality is we need to get our pound of flesh from the commercial insurers to pay for the self pay and medicaid people we cover. Most EDs would be happy to make roughly $36 an RVU Medicare pays if we got it for all our patients. Some may make more but a ton make less. Food for thought.

Most people with 4-yr degree don't start their first employment making 100k+/yr. You will be able to surpass most in 10 yrs because they have no extra money to invest when they are making 40-70k/yr.

I have friends who are software engineers, it's only a few that are making six figure after being in the market for 5+ years.

The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have?

 

[EctopicFetus]

Most people with 4-yr degree don't start their first employment making 100k+/yr. You will be able to surpass most in 10 yrs because they have no extra money to invest when they are making 40-70k/yr.

I have friends who are software engineers, it's only a few that are making six figure after being in the market for 5+ years.

The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have?

My first job out of college was 60K+. A buddy of mine who is an ED doc had his daughter graduate from a good public university. her first job 85k+. It’s the opportunity cost you have to factor in. Just look at avg debt of a US med grad. Then allow it to grow by 7% per year while in residency then lets chat.

 

[Splenda88]

My first job out of college was 60K+. A buddy of mine who is an ED doc had his daughter graduate from a good public university. her first job 85k+. It’s the opportunity cost you have to factor in. Just look at avg debt of a US med grad. Then allow it to grow by 7% per year while in residency then lets chat.

N = 2. You can't do a lot with 60k/year in most US cities if you don't have a partner that makes around the same. I think I understand opportunity cost. Getting 85k/year on your 1st employment after a 4-yr college degree is atypical.

You don't think an ED will surpass most 4 yr college grad financially after ten years of employment (I am assuming that doc won't go to Vegas every month)

An advantage that physicians have is purchasing power once they start working... Don't get me wrong! Things can be better, but saying 18k/month net pay is not a good because 200k-300k student loan and 4 yrs opportunity cost is laughable.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I am not against physicians making A LOT of $$$; I just think we should tone down our complaints about salary. We should be more concerned about the administrative side of our profession. I have never said we are the problem when it comes to healthcare expenditures.

Only physicians would complain about making 350K+/working 32 hrs/wk... Amazing!

lol yeah the health admin makes more and doesn’t directly help anyone. People love celebrities and athletes who make much more.

 

[EctopicFetus]

N = 2. You can't do a lot with 60k/year in most US cities if you don't have a partner that makes around the same. I think I understand opportunity cost. Getting 85k/year on your 1st employment after a 4-yr college degree is atypical.

You don't think an ED will surpass most 4 yr college grad financially after ten years of employment (I am assuming that doc won't go to Vegas every month)

An advantage that physicians have is purchasing power once they start working... Don't get me wrong! Things can be better, but saying 18k/month net pay is not a good because 200k-300k student loan and 4 yrs opportunity cost is laughable.

Who will have a higher net worth 10 years out of college? Obviously it is specialty dependent.. I also think it is disingenuous to compare avg doc salary and net worth to that of an average college grad. We can both agree that to get into med school you are usually a top performer in college.

85k isnt average or normal. but hearing people getting 60k+ right out of college isnt crazy especially for those who study science, computers, math etc.

you know those hard classes you have to cover to take the Mcat. 10 years out of college I’m confident the 4 year grad is ahead. 20 years is probably the break even but would depend on specialty choice and which subset of folks you want to compare to. Of my close college buddies (lets say 15 guys), one is a subspecialized dentist married to an entrepreneur and one is an ortho pod also married to an entrepreneur with an MBA. Of those 15 guys 10 of them have homes they bought for over $2m. I paid about 1/3 of that.

Thats who I compare myself to. I live a good life and save upwards of 25% of my income. One of my college buddies I have known since I was about 10... he is a partner at a major management consulting group. He said he makes over 800k a year.

Yes these people are outliers... but they are my peers.

Ill say the opportunity cost of medicine is huge.. both financial and personal. I called a buddy of mine while I was suffering studying thru some med school stuff. I remember the conversation vividly.. i said man this is tough, I’m driving in to the school library to study etc etc. it was maybe 630pm..

he said yeah man business school is hard too! I have to go out every night to network with people.. yeah.. not the same.. he knew it.. i know it..

 

[NITRAS]

grass is always greener...

 

[Porfirio]

I wonder how much tax money the government stands to lose if all physicians went to $200k.

Next we need to limit lawyer fees for clients. Why should a lawyer be allowed to charge $300-$1,000 per hour? We need to fix this too. I am only going to pay my lawyer $100 per hour. He can live off that.

Hell, imagine how much money we could save if we limited income and profit from small businesses too. My plumber shouldn’t be able to charge $50-$75 an hour. I am only going to reimburse him $20 per hour.

I totally agree. No one should make over $200k per year, comrades.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

The government keeps spending why not reduce what we spend on the military?

 

[EctopicFetus]

grass is always greener...

Ill be super clear. If i had to go back to when i was deciding.. i would pick EM again.. i would be a doctor again. I believe my work is meaningful, i can feel good about it and it is interesting.. that being said I went into EM expecting to earn about 180k a year.

My point is there is a ton of money we COULD have made if we chose a different path.. partners in my consulting firm made 425k+ other benefits. Thats more than most EM docs make. My point is medicine isnt some huge cash windfall if you look honestly at other academic high achievers.

 

[Listen2Savage]

[inflammatory statement removed]

 

[TheSingularity]

[inflammatory statement removed]

All that artificial sweetener depressing that USMLE step 1 score. Next time, go for the Stevia.

 

[deleted109597]

Remember everyone. You can disagree with other posters. You can even conjecture on their motives.
You cannot call them names.

 

[TheSingularity]

Eurasia has always been at war with eastasia

Remember everyone. You can disagree with other posters. You can even conjecture on their motives.
You cannot call them names.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile

 

[GeneralVeers]

It's all part of the socialist movement in this country. It's a movement of envy linking the woes of the poor to the salaries of the rich. Unfortunately it's multi-factorial and simply confiscating wealth or reducing pay of "the rich" won't do much at all to help the poor/homeless.

It's also interesting that the Hollywood shills who berate us and lecture us, aren't hesitant to take $10 million payouts per picture, and own huge gated mansions in the Hills.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It's all part of the socialist movement in this country. It's a movement of envy linking the woes of the poor to the salaries of the rich. Unfortunately it's multi-factorial and simply confiscating wealth or reducing pay of "the rich" won't do much at all to help the poor/homeless.

It's also interesting that the Hollywood shills who berate us and lecture us, aren't hesitant to take $10 million payouts per picture, and own huge gated mansions in the Hills.

That's what kills me. While I disagree, I have some respect for the guy that went to college and is now drowning in student loan debt when he talks about voting for Bernie.

 

[TheSingularity]

Americans have no issue with athletes and celebrities commanding unfathomable compensation, but Warren forbid physicians are fairly compensated for their expertise and training.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile

 

[Splenda88]

People misunderstood what I said. I will be happy to sign a contract for 500k/yr as a IM doc when I become an attending. However, if I make 250k/yr and complain about it, I will look like someone out of touch knowing that I make more than 98% of the US population. Of course our job is hard and we have made a lot sacrifices to get where we are. Most people (emphasis on MOST) who are making that kind of money are not sitting home waiting for a 10k/bi-weekly paycheck; they also work hard.

I have nothing against EM and my best buddy in med school is in EM. FWIW, I had the scores to match EM but it was not my specialty of choice.

 

[deleted547339]

That's what kills me. While I disagree, I have some respect for the guy that went to college and is now drowning in student loan debt when he talks about voting for Bernie.

I don’t. Decisions have consequences. Life is about making decisions and dealing with the consequences. Someone making bad life decisions doesn’t mean I should pay for it.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I don’t. Decisions have consequences. Life is about making decisions and dealing with the consequences. Someone making bad life decisions doesn’t mean I should pay for it.

Hence why I said "I disagree", but at least that guy I get.

Mark Ruffalo telling me we need socialism is much more awful.

 

[CajunMedic]

Team Health got their hooks into me while I was still a TRI. My current contract is for 10, 12 hour shifts a month. 1099 position. 220/hr for day, 230/hr for night +RVU bonus. Roughly 315K a year for 3 years. This is for a community ED in West Virginia, 42,000 visits a year, about an hour down the road from where I am now. Wife works and makes decent money and good insurance so I won’t need their workaround.

Having said all that, I got the same email everyone else did, and I’m waiting to see what is going to happen to my pay and current stipend.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[cyanide12345678]

I am not against physicians making A LOT of $$$; I just think we should tone down our complaints about salary. We should be more concerned about the administrative side of our profession. I have never said we are the problem when it comes to healthcare expenditures.

Only physicians would complain about making 350K+/working 32 hrs/wk... Amazing!

Okay sure the consultants in New Zealand for example make 150-180k a year.

Want to venture a guess how many patients those ER consultants see, how often they get sued, and what their cost of becoming a doctor is? The answers will surprise you

 

[emergentmd]

There has been gloom and doom every year for the past 10 yrs in EM. Sounds like almost every other Specialty. Rad Onc, Path, Radiology, Anesthes, ect.

I don't sense pay has really gone down, and yearly surveys still notes an increase. Job market is definitely tightening. I used to have weekly and sometimes daily text/emails asking to cover shifts. That has completely gone.

My pay has hovered around 400K since I could remember.

Maybe this could be the year where all the gloom and doom comes to fruition. Maybe not. But I have heard this before, and this is really no different.

I really do not think there is another job out there that would pay me 400K/yr and not have worse hours/stress.

Sure athletes, politicians, CEOS, movie stars, etc but you can't inject unicorns into this discussions. I am not that special where I could do any of that. But special enough to be one of the thousands of physicians.

I bet if all EM docs get to go back in time and do whatever they want, a tiny fraction would be better off financially.
I bet if all EM docs get to go back in time and go to whatever field/school they want be it Harvard Law, Wharton, Rhodes, a tiny fraction would be better off financially.

There just isn't that many people in America making 400K/yr.

 

[Splenda88]

 

[deleted573262]

There has been gloom and doom every year for the past 10 yrs in EM. Sounds like almost every other Specialty. Rad Onc, Path, Radiology, Anesthes, ect.

I don't sense pay has really gone down, and yearly surveys still notes an increase. Job market is definitely tightening. I used to have weekly and sometimes daily text/emails asking to cover shifts. That has completely gone.

My pay has hovered around 400K since I could remember.

Maybe this could be the year where all the gloom and doom comes to fruition. Maybe not. But I have heard this before, and this is really no different.

I really do not think there is another job out there that would pay me 400K/yr and not have worse hours/stress.

Sure athletes, politicians, CEOS, movie stars, etc but you can't inject unicorns into this discussions. I am not that special where I could do any of that. But special enough to be one of the thousands of physicians.

I bet if all EM docs get to go back in time and do whatever they want, a tiny fraction would be better off financially.
I bet if all EM docs get to go back in time and go to whatever field/school they want be it Harvard Law, Wharton, Rhodes, a tiny fraction would be better off financially.

There just isn't that many people in America making 400K/yr.

C-suite executives and politicians live very stressful lives. I wouldn't want to be a movie star and don't envy them. Athletes. I could be a Manning or a Brady.

 

[emergentmd]

Athletes, CEOs, movie stars, politicians all have more stressful lives than docs. I prefer to go home and not have some stalk me, take pictures behind bushes, send death threats, or have people's lives/happiness hang on my twitter feeds.

 

[Porfirio]

Indiana Doctor Killed in Dispute Over Pain Meds — Pain News Network

By Pat Anson, Editor A gunman who fatally shot an Indiana doctor this week was upset because the physician refused to prescribe opioid pain medication to his wife, according to police.

www.google.com

ER doctors speak out against rising incidents of physical assault

Two new surveys find that ER doctors are increasingly assaulted, both physically and verbally. They want legislation to protect them and hospitals to support them.

www.google.com

Tons more examples, just do a simple google search.

Being a physician is a public related job. If you are dumb enough, your private information (address, phone number) is on the internet because of NPI and medical board information being public information.

 

[deleted941485]

I don’t. Decisions have consequences. Life is about making decisions and dealing with the consequences. Someone making bad life decisions doesn’t mean I should pay for it.

Assuming you have a choice. For those in residency the choice has already been made.

 

[NYEMMED]

Indiana Doctor Killed in Dispute Over Pain Meds — Pain News Network

By Pat Anson, Editor A gunman who fatally shot an Indiana doctor this week was upset because the physician refused to prescribe opioid pain medication to his wife, according to police.

www.google.com

ER doctors speak out against rising incidents of physical assault

Two new surveys find that ER doctors are increasingly assaulted, both physically and verbally. They want legislation to protect them and hospitals to support them.

www.google.com

Tons more examples, just do a simple google search.

Being a physician is a public related job. If you are dumb enough, your private information (address, phone number) is on the internet because of NPI and medical board information being public information.

Any suggestions to getting around your private Info being posted?

 

[deleted941485]

Any suggestions to getting around your private Info being posted?

Don’t commit or be accused of a crime. Make sure you NPI address if linked to a place of bussines rather than a home address. Get out of the yellow or white pages.

Not sure about vitals or health grades

 

[hundreddaysoff]

Don’t commit or be accused of a crime. Make sure you NPI address if linked to a place of bussines rather than a home address. Get out of the yellow or white pages.

Not sure about vitals or health grades

And similarly to NPI, the CA medical board (and possibly other states) will publish on the web whatever address you fill in when you apply for a license. You cannot opt out of this. So AFAICT, unless you have a reliable business address at another hospital (not true at any of the 5ish shops I've worked at so far), you need to rent a PO box if you apply for a license in CA.

I learned this the hard way re NPI...

 

[GeneralVeers]

One thing I found is that Doximity and vitals.com will populate a lot of their contact info from google. I changed my google contact information to a nonsense address and a fake phone number. I noticed that a lot of the other sites then populated their own data with my fake google data.

Not sure how to get around the medical board thing. Having a PO box would be annoying because then I'd have to go check it to see if their is correspondence. Fortunately most of the patients are too low-functioning to search the medical board site for information.

 

[Porfirio]

I use a UPS store box as my address, and I have a “burner” cell phone that is used for all this medical garbage (plus job recruiters).

UPS store box is great because it counts as a real address (not a PO Box). Plus, I can call the store and they will check my mail box for me. If need be, they mail the stuff in my box to my home address or I just pick it up. The UPS store is right across the street from the hospital.

Also, having a burner cell phone number has been AWESOME. I recently bought a new car and it took all the trash text messages, trash voicemails, and trash calls from all the sales people.

 

[deleted547339]

Assuming you have a choice. For those in residency the choice has already been made.

What on God’s green earth are you talking about? Are you saying that in residency you’ve already taken out student loans so you don’t have a choice? If so, that’s exactly my point - you made a decision, now live with it. Decisions have consequences. Don’t complain about the choices that you made, no one put a gun to your head.

If that’s not what you’re saying, I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

I went to a less prestigious state school for undergrad and Med school because I didn’t want 200k in debt. I drove a beater. I worked part time jobs. I had to have a space heater and sleep with a hoodie in the winter because my house was so poorly insulated, while I had friends driving new cars, living in sweet apartments and going on nice vacations. But I made it out with 5 figures in student loans because I made good life decisions. Want to go to Ivy League U and have new clothes while you’re a student? Cool - just don’t complain when you have 150k in undergrad and 200k in Med school debt and then expect the government (read taxpayers like me) to bail you out. Frankly, I’m offended by the concept of loan forgiveness - if you borrowed something, you should pay it back (hence the “promissory” note - same root words as promise). You (metaphorical you, not actually you) had a choice and you chose poorly, so suck it up, buttercup.

Edited for typo

 

[deleted941485]

What on God’s green earth are you talking about? Are you saying that in residency you’ve already taken out student loans do you don’t have a choice? If so, that’s exactly my point - you made a decision, now live with it. Decisions have consequences. Don’t complain about the choices that you made, no one put a gun to your head.

If that’s not what you’re saying, I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

I went to a less prestigious state school for undergrad and Med school because I didn’t want 200k in debt. I drove a beater. I worked part time jobs. I had to have a space heater and sleep with a hoodie in the winter because my house was so poorly insulated, while I had friends driving new cars living in sweet apartments and going on nice vacations. But I made it out with 5 figures in student loans because I made good life decisions. Want to go to Ivy League U and have new clothes while you’re a student? Cool - just don’t complain when you have 150k in undergrad and 200k in Med school debt and then expect the government (read taxpayers like me) to bail you out. Frankly, I’m offended by the concept of loan forgiveness - if you borrowed something, you should pay it back (hence the “promissory” note - same root words as promise). You (metaphorical you, not actually you) had a choice and you chose poorly, so suck it up, buttercup.

Oh please spare me the piety and self righteous nonsense.

Getting out of paying what you owe is a distinctly American tradition and it should be embraced from time to time.