81 unfilled radiology spots this year

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hiltonty997

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According to this website

23 unfilled categorical (out of 168)

58 unfilled advanced (out of 1008)

So almost 7% of radiology spots went unfilled. That seems high. Anyone have the numbers from last year?

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According to this website

23 unfilled categorical (out of 168)

58 unfilled advanced (out of 1008)

So almost 7% of radiology spots went unfilled. That seems high. Anyone have the numbers from last year?
Below is a copy/pasted post from AM:

6ish went unfilled 2009
6 went unfilled 2010
42 went unfilled 2011
86 went unfilled 2012
62 went unfilled 2013
81 went unfilled 2014
 
Yeah, it's interesting to see those 2010 - 2014 # of unfilled spots, but keep in mind the number of spots has increased over the years. Increasing the number of spots does not necessarily increase demand of people going into it. This in turn can look like a falsely alarming amount of decreased interest in the field to outsiders.

# of positions offered
2010 - 1,090 positions
2014 - 1,176 positions

So even though only 6 positions went unfilled in 2010 versus 81 this year, this essentially reflects the increasing number of positions - not a significant change in interest.
 
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Yeah, it's interesting to see those 2010 - 2014 # of unfilled spots, but keep in mind the number of spots has increased over the years. Increasing the number of spots does not necessarily increase demand of people going into it. This in turn can look like a falsely alarming amount of decreased interest in the field to outsiders.

# of positions offered
2010 - 1,090 positions
2014 - 1,176 positions

So even though only 6 positions went unfilled in 2010 versus 81 this year, this essentially reflects the increasing number of positions - not a significant change in interest.


Disagree.

The numbers and other evidences show that the field is less desirable than before and the competition has decreased. Most of it has to do with the job market. It does not mean that the field by itself has changed. In fact, radiology has become more central as an important part of healthcare. However, there is supply more than demand esp in big cities. Nationwide there may not be a surplus, but most people prefer to live inside or near big or middle sized cities.
 
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Guys, it's obvious the world is ending. Pack your bags now and hope for that sweet spot at middle earth--you know, before the hungry new grads locate there and steal your nighthawk shifts.

Radiologists will soon be taking be taking jobs as janitors.
 
Nope. Many other specialized fields are facing similar problems. As I mentioned the importance of radiology in health care system is increasing day after day. So as a field it is still very fundamental to healthcare, challenging and great. However, the market is tight. This means between location, money and type of work you have to forget about one or two.
The best next close examples are some surgical subspecialties (CT surgery, transplant surgery), ophthalmology and cardiology (my girlfriend is in her last year of training and still we are looking for a job).
 
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Nope. Many other specialized fields are facing similar problems. As I mentioned the importance of radiology in health care system is increasing day after day. So as a field it is still very fundamental to healthcare, challenging and great. However, the market is tight. This means between location, money and type of work you have to forget about one or two.
The best next close examples are some surgical subspecialties (CT surgery, transplant surgery), ophthalmology and cardiology (my girlfriend is in her last year of training and still we are looking for a job).

Alright.

So, Shark,

What field, then, will provide bright and talented physicians with the best future?

And when I say "best," I mean a field: that is protected from competition; whose spots are (artificially) limited in order to ensure each graduate has the highest possible income; in which graduates can name their price--even a million isn't too much; that offers a <40-hour workweek; in which a bright, eager, doctor is valued--and is necessarily made partner from day one; whose sun rises and sets with the obviously glorious mind that will advance said field forward?

What oh what (perfect) field should I enter such that I have the perfect future?

Do tell us, so the enterprising minds entering Radiology can divert their naivete from the abyss that is imaging and chart a course to a better life.

thanx
 
Alright.

So, Shark,

What field, then, will provide bright and talented physicians with the best future?

And when I say "best," I mean a field: that is protected from competition; whose spots are (artificially) limited in order to ensure each graduate has the highest possible income; in which graduates can name their price--even a million isn't too much; that offers a <40-hour workweek; in which a bright, eager, doctor is valued--and is necessarily made partner from day one; whose sun rises and sets with the obviously glorious mind that will advance said field forward?

What oh what (perfect) field should I enter such that I have the perfect future?

Do tell us, so the enterprising minds entering Radiology can divert their naivete from the abyss that is imaging and chart a course to a better life.

thanx
Don't jump the shark, he's the biggest contributor of worthwhile information on this board - he loves the field of radiology, likes to share his insights which are greatly appreciated. He's definitely not doom and gloom such as one sees on AuntMinnie.
 
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It's pretty obvious that a ton of unfilled spots indicates a certain level of disinterest among US AMGs. Either that or programs are stubbornly not changing their applicant expectations considering the decreasing competitiveness of the field (which I doubt). In any case, these spots will all get filled in SOAP.
 
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It's pretty obvious that a ton of unfilled spots indicates a certain level of disinterest among US AMGs. Either that or programs are stubbornly not changing their applicant expectations considering the decreasing competitiveness of the field (which I doubt). In any case, these spots will all get filled in SOAP.

Or dictation systems have trouble understanding heavy accents
 
Alright.

So, Shark,

What field, then, will provide bright and talented physicians with the best future?

And when I say "best," I mean a field: that is protected from competition; whose spots are (artificially) limited in order to ensure each graduate has the highest possible income; in which graduates can name their price--even a million isn't too much; that offers a <40-hour workweek; in which a bright, eager, doctor is valued--and is necessarily made partner from day one; whose sun rises and sets with the obviously glorious mind that will advance said field forward?

What oh what (perfect) field should I enter such that I have the perfect future?

Do tell us, so the enterprising minds entering Radiology can divert their naivete from the abyss that is imaging and chart a course to a better life.

thanx

Nothing.
 
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Disagree.

The numbers and other evidences show that the field is less desirable than before and the competition has decreased.

Competition has not decreased that much if at all at middle and top programs - maybe at your random community programs it has.

Average STEP 1 score last year of those matched was still 240.
 
Competition has not decreased that much if at all at middle and top programs - maybe at your random community programs it has.

Average STEP 1 score last year of those matched was still 240.

I think I got interviews at two or three programs I would not have gotten a few years back.
 
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When I was doing rotations at my home program, I was there for the "state of the applications" chat from the admissions director. She said applications were down in total for the second year in a row (~500 received for 10 spots; offered ~100 interviews), but the caliber of the remaining candidates was higher than ever (avg step 1, avg step 2, # publications, # MSPEs with outstanding/similar key words, and overall quality of LORs). I think the top tiers are similarly competitive as in the past.
 
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When I was doing rotations at my home program, I was there for the "state of the applications" chat from the admissions director. She said applications were down in total for the second year in a row (~500 received for 10 spots; offered ~100 interviews), but the caliber of the remaining candidates was higher than ever (avg step 1, avg step 2, # publications, # MSPEs with outstanding/similar key words, and overall quality of LORs). I think the top tiers are similarly competitive as in the past.

I've always wondered how much rads programs care about the MSPE. Did she offer specifics?
 
As someone who as interviewed and sat on these committees, the MSPE is a big part of the application. It often states what quartile (either directly or through code words) in the class you are in. Plus the comments in individual sections can be quite enlightening.
 
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[when e="Shifty B, post: 15031911, member: 218772"]As someone who as interviewed and sat on these committees, the MSPE is a big part of the application. It often states what quartile (either directly or through code words) in the class you are in. Plus the comments in individual sections can be quite enlightening.[/quote]

Does the MSPE matter for when you actually rank applicants? Or just when picking people to interview?
 
They made it sound like the MSPE was most useful for interview screening. After interview offer, most applicants were treated the same and interview made or broke you on the rank list.
 
This is starting to smell like pathology.
 
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They made it sound like the MSPE was most useful for interview screening. After interview offer, most applicants were treated the same and interview made or broke you on the rank list.

As much as I'd like to believe that, I don't in general. For example, I got invited to a program where some of the applicants had upper 260s step 1, AOA, etc. I am nowhere near that. How can that be ignored for ranking?
 
As much as I'd like to believe that, I don't in general. For example, I got invited to a program where some of the applicants had upper 260s step 1, AOA, etc. I am nowhere near that. How can that be ignored for ranking?

I can only speak based on my experience. We rank based on the total package, which includes the entire application packet and interview. You can have a great paper application and do poorly at the interview, and will rank poorly. The opposite is true as well, and you can be mediocre on paper and pull yourself up with your interview. However, to pretend like it is completely level once you get to the interview is unlikely to be true at any place.
 
As much as I'd like to believe that, I don't in general. For example, I got invited to a program where some of the applicants had upper 260s step 1, AOA, etc. I am nowhere near that. How can that be ignored for ranking?

The MSPE might mention these things, but it's more concentrated on your in school performance and overall class rank as well as some extra curriculars like research. Did you happen to read yours?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
Disagree.

The numbers and other evidences show that the field is less desirable than before and the competition has decreased. Most of it has to do with the job market. It does not mean that the field by itself has changed. In fact, radiology has become more central as an important part of healthcare. However, there is supply more than demand esp in big cities. Nationwide there may not be a surplus, but most people prefer to live inside or near big or middle sized cities.

But is that due to reality or perception based on reading SDN?
 
Alright.

So, Shark,

What field, then, will provide bright and talented physicians with the best future?

And when I say "best," I mean a field: that is protected from competition; whose spots are (artificially) limited in order to ensure each graduate has the highest possible income; in which graduates can name their price--even a million isn't too much; that offers a <40-hour workweek; in which a bright, eager, doctor is valued--and is necessarily made partner from day one; whose sun rises and sets with the obviously glorious mind that will advance said field forward?

What oh what (perfect) field should I enter such that I have the perfect future?

Do tell us, so the enterprising minds entering Radiology can divert their naivete from the abyss that is imaging and chart a course to a better life.

thanx

Dermatology.
 
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That guide is hilarious. Thanks DermViser.

Something tells me with quotes such as:

"Years ago I read an article in the Pittsburgh press by one of the Associate Deans of the Medical School who talked about applicants to residencies. She wrote that the cream of the high school crop was skimmed off and went to college. The cream of the college crop again was skimmed and went to graduate schools, including medical school. The cream of the medical school crop, once again, was skimmed and went into subspecialty training, with the cream going to Radiology, Orthopedics, Dermatology and Radiation Oncology. You, the Radiology residency applicant, have been skimmed three times, at least, and you must still fall on the toe of the bell curve to succeed. You cannot fall on the heel of that curve and still go into Radiology."

and

"Only the academically extremely strong should even think about this [Radiology]. USMLE scores must soar well above 230s/mid 90s, transcripts groan under the weight of A's, Honors and applause; accepted publications bend your mailbox from sheer volume; whole communities praise you as their savior; and your letters must make you appear likely to qualify for instant sainthood. On top of that, you must present a sparkling and error-free ERAS, a compelling Pulitzer-level Personal Statement, and project the vivid and charismatic presence of a talk-show host. A successful, articulate one."

Something tells me that she stands in the category of stubbornly not changing applicant expectations. Not that her expectations were ever normal to begin with.
 
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It made for a nice read. Could have been a great change-show or roast of the PD / director of residency selection committee if given with the delivery of a British comedian.

It also is bananas. Perhaps back in the day when there weren't 1000+ spots a year in Radiology, but facts are facts, lady, you guys are taking too many residents each year. Cut back a bit and perhaps those standards might get met.
 
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To be fair, the latter quote is from the Hopkins guide that was included in the UT Houston guide by the author (PD). Additionally, this guide has been out for many years (in 2010 when there were 6 scramble spots) and not revised much since. Do you have friends that didn't match into their speciality? Not a pretty sight - so I too would err on the side of scarring less competitive people away from it, esp if their heart wasn't in it.

That being said, I ranked UT Houston nearly last on my list partly because of the abrasive interview style of the PD.

From my experience interviewing at the "top" programs, things are as competitive as ever, but not quite so much at the bottom.
 
Yes, this page has been around for many years and has only been lightly edited.

And yes, top programs in radiology are still quite competitive. There are a lot of relatively small community programs out there which may offer substandard education and experience, and those may have trouble filling. Any top 25 radiology program is interviewing and matching very high quality candidates, even today.
 
Yes, this page has been around for many years and has only been lightly edited.

And yes, top programs in radiology are still quite competitive. There are a lot of relatively small community programs out there which may offer substandard education and experience, and those may have trouble filling. Any top 25 radiology program is interviewing and matching very high quality candidates, even today.

Or just try to soap into a smaller academic program that may give you a good education but is in a not-as-desirable location (like I did).
 
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To say "top programs are still competitive" is like saying "football players are still big". It's a meaningless statement that provides no assurances, as in even the least competitive of fields their top programs are always relatively difficult to get into. In the same way that it's the marginal barrel of oil that's pumped out of the ground that dictates the price at the pump, it's all those marginal programs (that you don't hear too much about at SDN on any forum, what with the abundance of gunners and constant obsessions about "top tier" and "top ten" or whatever) and how competitive they are that determines overall how competitive a particular specialty is, given ultimately the eagerness of candidates to match somewhere, anywhere to realize their goals of becoming whatever specialist.
 
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Honestly, I couldn't disagree more.

I've had several 4th colleagues this year going into psychiatry, neurology or IM who aren't even in the top 1/3 or even top 1/2 get interviews at the Harvard and Hopkins programs and other "top 10" programs, but I know of no rad applicant who has gotten an interview there without being absolutely stellar. Just look at the average step scores, still 240's for rads, 220's and lower for less competitive specialities. That disparity of quality also proportionally exists at the "top" programs as well.
 
To be fair, the latter quote is from the Hopkins guide that was included in the UT Houston guide by the author (PD). Additionally, this guide has been out for many years (in 2010 when there were 6 scramble spots) and not revised much since. Do you have friends that didn't match into their speciality? Not a pretty sight - so I too would err on the side of scarring less competitive people away from it, esp if their heart wasn't in it.

That being said, I ranked UT Houston nearly last on my list partly because of the abrasive interview style of the PD.

From my experience interviewing at the "top" programs, things are as competitive as ever, but not quite so much at the bottom.

She updated it to insert - "The Core Exam will be taken 36 months after the beginning of radiology residency training. In 2013, the first such exam will be given. It will be an image-rich, computer-based exam administered in Chicago and Tuscon." She obviously still agrees with the rest. It's not like she hasn't revised it for a while.
 

I don't know how accurate is these sort of measurements.

Look at anesthesia and Derm. Percent matched in anesthesia is 98% and in Derm is 93%.

In this way let's sort the competitiveness:

Urology>>ENT>>Ortho>Neurosurgery>>PM&R>Ophtho>ER>Derm>Rad Onc>>Anesthesia>IM=Radiology=Neurology

Derm has 93% match rate, ptho also has 91%, ER has 93% and PM&R has 89%. With all the respect for PM&R and ER, there is no way that PM&R and ER are more competitive than Derm. They are not even close to Derm, unless there has been a huge change in last year that I don't know of. Radiation oncology is 94%. Neurosurgery is 84% and ortho 81%. Urology only 68% !! Urology is a very competitive field but not much more than ortho and neurosurgery.
 
I don't know how accurate is these sort of measurements.

Look at anesthesia and Derm. Percent matched in anesthesia is 98% and in Derm is 93%.

In this way let's sort the competitiveness:

Urology>>ENT>>Ortho>Neurosurgery>>PM&R>Ophtho>ER>Derm>Rad Onc>>Anesthesia>IM=Radiology=Neurology

Derm has 93% match rate, ptho also has 91%, ER has 93% and PM&R has 89%. With all the respect for PM&R and ER, there is no way that PM&R and ER are more competitive than Derm. They are not even close to Derm, unless there has been a huge change in last year that I don't know of. Radiation oncology is 94%. Neurosurgery is 84% and ortho 81%. Urology only 68% !! Urology is a very competitive field but not much more than ortho and neurosurgery.

You're trying to take 1 item to determine the competitiveness. This would be like asking, "What is your Step 1 score?" to encompass an entire application. It doesn't.

What you can do is look at all the factors, Step 1 score, match percentage being 99% or 90%, unfilled spots, selection bias, etc. When you look at PMR, the Step 1 is around 215? EM 225? Derm 245? (I don't know these, just going off memory) So you need to take those into account. For rads, the bottom tier residencies are not competitive - you can tell by the unmatched positions being at 81 and the 99% match rate.

With all that said, radiology is surely still competitive for most of the residencies. Lower tier spots are not competitive. You can even look at the 2011 charting outcomes to see that.

Uro probably is more competitive than neurosurgery. As everyone has already mentioned, you need to factor in selection bias too. That's one of the multiple factors to look at (along match %, unfilled spots, etc). If an average Step 1 score is > 240 for a specialty, then their selection bias will weed out many applicants. The charting the outcomes data shows this at Step 1 scores 211-220, if the match % is still 98-99% there then that's does say something. If it's 60-70% then that also says something.
 
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I didn't say anything differently. My whole argument was that by just looking at one number you can not make the final conclusion.
 
match.jpg
Yeah, it's interesting to see those 2010 - 2014 # of unfilled spots, but keep in mind the number of spots has increased over the years. Increasing the number of spots does not necessarily increase demand of people going into it. This in turn can look like a falsely alarming amount of decreased interest in the field to outsiders.

# of positions offered
2010 - 1,090 positions
2014 - 1,176 positions

So even though only 6 positions went unfilled in 2010 versus 81 this year, this essentially reflects the increasing number of positions - not a significant change in interest.

Ortho has also increased positions by over 10% from 2010 to 2014, yet it continues to fill (+/- 3 scramble spots).
 
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Ortho has also increased positions by over 10% from 2010 to 2014, yet it continues to fill (+/- 3 scramble spots).

Yeah, Ortho is a great specialty and if radiology didn't exist that's where I would have applied.

Everyone out there should pick whatever specialty they find the most interesting and could see themselves doing day in and day out. Who knows what the future holds.
 
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To say "top programs are still competitive" is like saying "football players are still big". It's a meaningless statement that provides no assurances, as in even the least competitive of fields their top programs are always relatively difficult to get into. In the same way that it's the marginal barrel of oil that's pumped out of the ground that dictates the price at the pump, it's all those marginal programs (that you don't hear too much about at SDN on any forum, what with the abundance of gunners and constant obsessions about "top tier" and "top ten" or whatever) and how competitive they are that determines overall how competitive a particular specialty is, given ultimately the eagerness of candidates to match somewhere, anywhere to realize their goals of becoming whatever specialist.

What you are saying is certainly true. The overall competitiveness of getting any radiology spot in the country is down considerably. Much of this is related to the job market. At one time, it was enough to get any spot and be guaranteed a pretty decent job. With the decrease in the job market prospects, it becomes all the more important to go to a bigger program with a good reputation, if not nationally then at least regionally. The competition for those spots is similar to what it was 5 years ago.

I'm not being neurotic about top 5 programs. There are probably 50-75 very good radiology residencies in the country, and I'm talking about those. The rest you can go to and still be a radiologist (even a very good one), but it will be harder each step of the way.
 
Something tells me with quotes such as:

"Years ago I read an article in the Pittsburgh press by one of the Associate Deans of the Medical School who talked about applicants to residencies. She wrote that the cream of the high school crop was skimmed off and went to college. The cream of the college crop again was skimmed and went to graduate schools, including medical school. The cream of the medical school crop, once again, was skimmed and went into subspecialty training, with the cream going to Radiology, Orthopedics, Dermatology and Radiation Oncology. You, the Radiology residency applicant, have been skimmed three times, at least, and you must still fall on the toe of the bell curve to succeed. You cannot fall on the heel of that curve and still go into Radiology."

and

"Only the academically extremely strong should even think about this [Radiology]. USMLE scores must soar well above 230s/mid 90s, transcripts groan under the weight of A's, Honors and applause; accepted publications bend your mailbox from sheer volume; whole communities praise you as their savior; and your letters must make you appear likely to qualify for instant sainthood. On top of that, you must present a sparkling and error-free ERAS, a compelling Pulitzer-level Personal Statement, and project the vivid and charismatic presence of a talk-show host. A successful, articulate one."

Something tells me that she stands in the category of stubbornly not changing applicant expectations. Not that her expectations were ever normal to begin with.


Dr Oldham used to be at my home institution years ago as one of the educational deans. She was actually well liked by the medical students. I contacted her about potentially getting an interview at UTH but I was too late in the process.

I remember reading that page a couple of years ago. It almost scared me away from applying to radiology (...almost) .... because of my step 1 and rank. Well I went at it anyway and got a spot.
 
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Dr Oldham used to be at my home institution years ago as one of the educational deans. She was actually well liked by the medical students. I contacted her about potentially getting an interview at UTH but I was too late in the process.

I remember reading that page a couple of years ago. It almost scared me away from applying to radiology (...almost) .... because of my step 1 and rank. Well I went at it anyway and got a spot.

Well apparently her "Program Coordinator...filters out those I should read from the many I don't need to read." Maybe she wasn't chairman at the Radiology dept. at your medical school?
 
I think this is a perfect time to "buy low" into radiology. Imaging is not going anywhere.
 
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I think this is a perfect time to "buy low" into radiology. Imaging is not going anywhere.

More like catching a falling knife. Imaging ain't going anywhere yes. But government has been successful reducing volumes and keeps trying even more. Meanwhile, we are pumping out the same or more rads every year as when times were booming, and to top it all off, no one is doing anything about supply. Oversupply is great for academics who get their pick of top grads now. Buy low sure, but if it stays low forever, you will suffer your entire life.
 
Well apparently her "Program Coordinator...filters out those I should read from the many I don't need to read." Maybe she wasn't chairman at the Radiology dept. at your medical school?
I created a new account because I can't remember my old password and the email has been discontinued, just so you know this isn't my first post.

I completely agree about the ridiculousness of much of the guide to applying radiology that Dr. Oldham wrote. It may be true that she is stubbornly maintaining her view that radiology is super competitive, or assuming after being in the field for so many years that it's competitiveness has ebbs and flows and there isn't much need to change her guide.

I know she can come off as abrasive to some, but she has been an awesome mentor and one of my greatest supporters in medical school at UTH. She goes out of her way to help med students who want to go into radiology, and she is a great teacher in the chest room. I can't say much about her relationships with residents- whether she is more or less well-liked among them as among the med students.

Also, sure her tier system isn't perfect, but it states that it's just her opinion. At least she did SOMETHING to help guide us in choosing appropriate residencies to apply to. No other programs at our school do anything similar and I know many students are lost about the relative competitiveness of various programs within their fields. I know it helped me choose a good range of programs.

Anyway, I just didn't see a need to be so critical of a person who is just doing her best to help applicants. I chose to go elsewhere for personal reasons but hate the thought that I won't continue to learn from and work with her in the near future.
 
I created a new account because I can't remember my old password and the email has been discontinued, just so you know this isn't my first post.

I completely agree about the ridiculousness of much of the guide to applying radiology that Dr. Oldham wrote. It may be true that she is stubbornly maintaining her view that radiology is super competitive, or assuming after being in the field for so many years that it's competitiveness has ebbs and flows and there isn't much need to change her guide.

I know she can come off as abrasive to some, but she has been an awesome mentor and one of my greatest supporters in medical school at UTH. She goes out of her way to help med students who want to go into radiology, and she is a great teacher in the chest room. I can't say much about her relationships with residents- whether she is more or less well-liked among them as among the med students.

Also, sure her tier system isn't perfect, but it states that it's just her opinion. At least she did SOMETHING to help guide us in choosing appropriate residencies to apply to. No other programs at our school do anything similar and I know many students are lost about the relative competitiveness of various programs within their fields. I know it helped me choose a good range of programs.

Anyway, I just didn't see a need to be so critical of a person who is just doing her best to help applicants. I chose to go elsewhere for personal reasons but hate the thought that I won't continue to learn from and work with her in the near future.

Well said, Dr. Oldham.
 
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Haha maybe she looks at SDN but she doesn't strike me as the type of person who cares what other people say about her.
 
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