81 unfilled radiology spots this year

[greg1184]

Hey guys,

I think Radiology is still competitive, it's just that their match strategy has changed. The reason I say this is because the competitive residencies (such as Radiology) are now waiting for people who failed to match at the super competitive specialties to fill in their spots.

I was taken in 1st round by a great rads program during the SOAP after getting interviewed by 12 of the 20 Rads programs I applied to during SOAP and it was evident that they were expecting people like me.

What is sad is that rads programs rather have other specialties' sloppy seconds than people who may be genuinely interested in Radiology. For that reason, I am amazed that I got a spot in the SOAP last year.

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[Kaputt]

Hey guys,

I think Radiology is still competitive, it's just that their match strategy has changed. The reason I say this is because the competitive residencies (such as Radiology) are now waiting for people who failed to match at the super competitive specialties to fill in their spots.

I was taken in 1st round by a great rads program during the SOAP after getting interviewed by 12 of the 20 Rads programs I applied to during SOAP and it was evident that they were expecting people like me.

As a Urology applicant who failed to match this year, I can tell you the competition was FIERCE for Uro. I had 20+ interviews (13 to the top 30 and 10 in the mid tier) and I didn't get in. My stats and CV were decent 255+ on steps, 5 pubs, 5 abstracts, 5 posters with national awards (first author on 50% of the research pubs, all Urology). There were many others in my situation who basically got unlucky. By the way, the actual match rate was closer to 48%, the 60% is for those who got ranked. Truly a deathmatch. Even so, many rads programs I interviewed at told me that they would rank me in their top 5, meaning to me that there were many well qualified people and radiology program directors were prepared for people like us to trickle through.

That being said, radiology is a great field and I am very fortunate to have landed into it. The outlook for DR is not good, and it will most likely never recover, but the fact is Interventional Radiology is becoming more vogue as we progress through this era of minimally invasive operations. Most surgical specialties have gravitated towards the davinci to enhance their minimally invasive appeal to patients and IR stands upon the apex of this movement. I think as long as the fellowships for radiology remain in high demand the field will continue to recruit excellent people. That's my 2 cents.

Are you suggesting programs are intentionally entering the SOAP to scoop up the brainiacs like you who were jipped out of a urology/ENT/etc spot?

I find that hilarious.

And you can have your 2 cents back on your speculations about the future of radiology.

 

[Kaputt]

What is sad is that rads programs rather have other specialties' sloppy seconds than people who may be genuinely interested in Radiology. For that reason, I am amazed that I got a spot in the SOAP last year.

I think you just got unlucky in the match, man. The fact that you got your spot in the SOAP instead of the many people who didn't match uro/ENT/derm speaks to the fact that this notion that rads programs want sloppy seconds is BS.

 

[DermViser]

There is a big problem with not being local. There are jobs available in Detroit. But groups don't offer them to everybody. A nightmare for a group is to hire someone and he leaves the job in one year or even 2 years. Hiring someone is difficult and expensive. This is a problem that you will face once you are looking for a job. Let's say you are from Houston and did all your training in Houston. If you can not find a job in Texas, then groups in Michigan think twice before offering you a job.

The market is tight, but you can find a job within 2 hours of most big cities. However, IMO, there is no point in living 2 hours away unless you have a very strong ties to the area.

Wow, Radiology is a tight market!!

 

[Mad Jack]

Holy crap, 150 unfilled radiology positions in 2015 in the main match (13 categorical, 137 prelim). You know something is up with the field when the number of unfilled positions has nearly doubled since last year...

 

[Gadofosveset]

Holy crap, 150 unfilled radiology positions in 2015 in the main match (13 categorical, 137 prelim). You know something is up with the field when the number of unfilled positions has nearly doubled since last year...

Insightful.

Still, my job is better than yours.

 

[Mad Jack]

Insightful.

Still, my job is better than yours.

I think radiology is great, honestly. It's just a sort of chilling number to see in a field that used to be amongst the most competitive only a few years back.

 

[deleted564680]

This has been talked about ad nauseam. The USMLE score average is still high (241/235 for step 1 for US MD/others and 249/240 for step 2 for US MD/others), especially when you consider rads has > 1100 spots when all the other fields with 240+ USMLE averages have mostly 300 or less spots (ortho has 700ish). Also, if you look at the list of programs that went unfilled, it's pretty clear that about half of those 150 spots were at pretty good institutions who decided they'd rather SOAP someone than accept a sub-par applicant.
I'm not worried about rads as long as the number of spots stays where it is/slightly decreases (my dream).

 

[CDI]

Are you suggesting programs are intentionally entering the SOAP to scoop up the brainiacs like you who were jipped out of a urology/ENT/etc spot?

I find that hilarious.

And you can have your 2 cents back on your speculations about the future of radiology.

Are you suggesting programs are intentionally entering the SOAP to scoop up the brainiacs like you who were jipped out of a urology/ENT/etc spot?

I find that hilarious.

And you can have your 2 cents back on your speculations about the future of radiology.

There is a program or two that definitely did that. I was talking with several PDs last year who had a spot or two open even after SOAP, and more than one was holding out for ortho/uro-fails with sick stats rather than rads-hopefuls with average stats even with a lot of research or genuine interest in the field. They were taking a risk on the resident bailing later on - but it seems to be working for them.

 

[DOFOSHO]

Do you all think there will be unfilled spots this year?

 

[Derv]

Do you all think there will be unfilled spots this year?

Pretty sure there will be unfilled spots this year.

 

[DrBowtie]

Pretty sure there will be unfilled spots this year.

Agree. Some of it will be poor strategy related due to IR match and underinterviewing DR spots.

 

[radnonymous]

Agree. Some of it will be poor strategy related due to IR match and underinterviewing DR spots.

This. With all of the dual-applying, I predicted DR PDs would interview & rank too many people who actually want to do IR as their 1st choice (accepted DR interview as a back-up because it was so easy to do so) and end up not filling. Maybe they took this into account, but the process is so new for all involved - we'll find out soon enough.

 

[JonnyTalsma]

we'll find out soon enough.

That's not soon enough!

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Look at the AAMC Eras 2017 data

There are 1300 applicants for DR and 450 for IR, just for AMerican grads. There are 982 pgy2 and 150 pgy1 spots last year for a 1130 or so spots.

There are more American grads than DR spots available. Not to mention the 600 or so IMG applicants.

By the number, it's more competitive than the ERAS 2013 match for the first time in 4 years.

 

[LadyRad]

Look at the AAMC Eras 2017 data

There are 1300 applicants for DR and 450 for IR, just for AMerican grads. There are 982 pgy2 and 150 pgy1 spots last year for a 1130 or so spots.

There are more American grads than DR spots available. Not to mention the 600 or so IMG applicants.

By the number, it's more competitive than the ERAS 2013 match for the first time in 4 years.

It does not take into account the applicants who have applied for both DR-only and IR. So the actual number is less than 1300 for DR.

 

[radnonymous]

It does not take into account the applicants who have applied for both DR-only and IR. So the actual number is less than 1300 for DR.

It's hard to extrapolate too much. Some who applied both will be ranking IR first, others ranking DR first, and some alternating by program.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I understand that some people are applying to IR and others are applying to DR, thats why I said the overall DR applicant pool is probably around 1300 for American grad and did not add the IR pool on top of that because all IR applicants probably applied to DR.

The issue is there are only 1200 or so DR spot, and many (if not most) IR spots are made by taking DR spots away). I don't think the total amount of rad spots changed.

I predict that unfortuately, there will be a lot of upsets this year. I see sentiment where people chose to not rank programs outside of their top 10 because they are AMG. This may have worked in 2015 but may fail this year.

I sincerely hope that match work out for everyone, however. I just want to add a dose of reason.

 

[PL198]

I understand that some people are applying to IR and others are applying to DR, thats why I said the overall DR applicant pool is probably around 1300 for American grad and did not add the IR pool on top of that because all IR applicants probably applied to DR.

The issue is there are only 1200 or so DR spot, and many (if not most) IR spots are made by taking DR spots away). I don't think the total amount of rad spots changed.

I predict that unfortuately, there will be a lot of upsets this year. I see sentiment where people chose to not rank programs outside of their top 10 because they are AMG. This may have worked in 2015 but may fail this year.

I sincerely hope that match work out for everyone, however. I just want to add a dose of reason.

disagree with bolded. not sure where this is coming from. like 80 % of programs I have seen are adding total spots. removing DR to add an IR spot is a rarity in my experience. most just increasing spots

 

[harambe4ever]

disagree with bolded. not sure where this is coming from. like 80 % of programs I have seen are adding total spots. removing DR to add an IR spot is a rarity in my experience. most just increasing spots

Really sad. They should be decreasing DR-certified physicians, not increasing them. Yes, I know most IR/DR will practice IR but it is just flooding the market even more with physicians eligible to do DR.

 

[PL198]

Really sad. They should be decreasing DR-certified physicians, not increasing them. Yes, I know most IR/DR will practice IR but it is just flooding the market even more with physicians eligible to do DR.

most IR are going to do at least some DR in day to day practice. I would think basically everyone besides uber ivory towers are

 

[RadsFTW123]

most IR are going to do at least some DR in day to day practice. I would think basically everyone besides uber ivory towers are

Will have to see with the match numbers, but from the examples I've seen, most are just adding IR spots. Your future (and thus the future quality of applicants) is about number 3489245 on the list of things PDs and academics care about. This I think is rather unique to radiology compared to other fields.

 

[Gadofosveset]

Really sad. They should be decreasing DR-certified physicians, not increasing them. Yes, I know most IR/DR will practice IR but it is just flooding the market even more with physicians eligible to flail at anything besides basic DR.

FTFY. Kind of how I would flail at anything besides basic intervention.
To be fair, I've met a few IRs who were genuinely good DR readers, but it's definitely a small minority.

most IR are going to do at least some DR in day to day practice. I would think basically everyone besides uber ivory towers are

This is pretty clear isn't it? Yet it's rare that I meet an IR-bound resident who thinks in these terms. The vast majority blow off their DR training because they're certain they're going to do 100% IR. Same problem for DR-only residents who don't know which end of a needle is which.

Will have to see with the match numbers, but from the examples I've seen, most are just adding IR spots. Your future (and thus the future quality of applicants) is about number 3489245 on the list of things PDs and academics care about. This I think is rather unique to radiology compared to other fields.

Take a gander at the RadOnc and Path forums. It's a sad problem, and a tough problem, despite everyone's "obvious" solutions. I hope we can get some leadership in the future that looks more long-term. At the moment they're obsessed with short and medium term problems ((declining) payment models, hospital system growth). Also... have you ever worked with older academics? Put two of them together and you get three different contrary and tightly-held opinions. Try organizing that at a national level. There is no "dictator" of radiology training, just a loose organization of all these warring city-states. You need the academics, though... ain't no PP rad gonna teach a resident anything. I hope we can get leadership with a little more vision soon.

 

[IR4thewin]

Per data on NRMP website, 22 unfilled DR spots pre-soap and 6 unfilled IR spots.


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[Naijaba]

Per data on NRMP website, 22 unfilled DR spots pre-soap and 6 unfilled IR spots.


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500 unfilled prelim surgery. At what point do we admit that something is wrong with surgical training?

 

[Naijaba]

Per data on NRMP website, 22 unfilled DR spots pre-soap and 6 unfilled IR spots.

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I read it wrong, nevermind.

 

[RadGod1]

Will we ever know which programs didn't fill pre-SOAP?


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[IR4thewin]

Will we ever know which programs didn't fill pre-SOAP?


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Only people that can see that info are students who didn't match and their respective Student Affairs office. I believe it is a violation to post it online or share it for any purpose other than the SOAP.

 

[RadGod1]

Then how did everyone know which programs didn't fill in 2014/5?


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[DrBowtie]

Then how did everyone know which programs didn't fill in 2014/5?


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Pretty sure the data that comes out publicly Friday is match data pre soap.

 

[IR4thewin]

People are free to commit the violation if they want and many do face to face, just saying that if you post it here it will be taken down in a matter of time

Edit: or ^. I'm just guessing here.

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[Bayonetwork]

Matched into Rads but not prelim. I can say that whoever is SOAPing Rads has VERY slim pickings this year. Prelim medicine isn't looking so hot either.

 

[redoitall]

OK well good luck Bayonetwork. Let us know how it turns out. Hopefully things will work out.

 

[IR4thewin]

Yes good luck. Seems that programs have corrected the mistake of underinterviewing for positions that happened not too long ago.

 

[Bayonetwork]

OK well good luck Bayonetwork. Let us know how it turns out. Hopefully things will work out.

Yes good luck. Seems that programs have corrected the mistake of underinterviewing for positions that happened not too long ago.

Thanks guys! Actually I think the worst part about today is your school can tell you where you matched (in case it influences your approach to SOAP) for those that match advanced but not prelim. So Fridays match day is entirely uneventful for me now.

Good luck to anyone else doing SOAP, especially Rads. Im very thankful to have matched into a great Rads program!

 

[futuredoc2312]

Per data on NRMP website, 22 unfilled DR spots pre-soap and 6 unfilled IR spots.


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Where is this on their website?

 

[Derv]

Where is this on their website?

You can only see it if you are soaping

 

[OrangeJuice1111]

Nah. Log on to R3. "My Reports" tab. "Regional match statistics by specialty" report. 7/158 categorical rads positions unfilled, and 15/932 advanced rads positions unfilled, for a total of 22.

 

[javi1]

How does that number compare with other specialties?

 

[IR_2016]

Nah. Log on to R3. "My Reports" tab. "Regional match statistics by specialty" report. 7/158 categorical rads positions unfilled, and 15/932 advanced rads positions unfilled, for a total of 22.

Could you explain the difference between categorical and advanced? Haven't heard these terms before. Thanks!

 

[OrangeJuice1111]

Could you explain the difference between categorical and advanced? Haven't heard these terms before. Thanks!

Categorical means that the program includes a prelim year (medicine, surgery, or some combination) built into the program.
Advanced starts PGY-2 year after a prelim year is completed.

 

[thatsrad]

Anesthesia had 97, according to their forum

 

[clutch21]

I found it surprising that a lower ratio of advanced DR spots (15/932=1.6%) went unfilled compared to advanced dermatology spots (8/423=1.9%). I don't think this statistic bears any significance, just thought it was interesting. It's also amazing how much PM&R has blown up in the last few years.. only 1 unfilled spot across a total of 426 positions.

 

[IR_2016]

Categorical means that the program includes a prelim year (medicine, surgery, or some combination) built into the program.
Advanced starts PGY-2 year after a prelim year is completed.

Thanks! To clarify: for categorical, you do your prelim year at the same institution that you are doing your radiology residency, whereas with advanced you will pick a prelim at an outside institution, but are already accepted to do your radiology residency at a different program?

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Nah. Log on to R3. "My Reports" tab. "Regional match statistics by specialty" report. 7/158 categorical rads positions unfilled, and 15/932 advanced rads positions unfilled, for a total of 22.

What's the number of IR positions total? (Pgy 1 and 2). This can allow us to calculate how many New DR IR spots are created versus converted from DR

 

[clutch21]

Thanks! To clarify: for categorical, you do your prelim year at the same institution that you are doing your radiology residency, whereas with advanced you will pick a prelim at an outside institution, but are already accepted to do your radiology residency at a different program?

Yes and no. With categorical, you would match under one NRMP code and are doing both your intern year and advanced program at the same institution. With advanced though, you could still do your intern year at the same institution. The difference is that advanced rads is not paired. Thus you are ranking and matching into a separate code for both your advanced program and intern year.

Just to elaborate on the process since I think it'll help with your understanding.. When it's time to submit your list, you will rank both advanced programs and categorical programs (if any, since there aren't a ton) on a primary ROL. The NMRP first matches you on this primary ROL. If you match at a categorical program, you're done... there isn't any further matching. If you match a categorical program, the NMRP then goes to your "supplemental" ROL which is a list of the intern only programs you interviewed at, and attempts to match you to an internship. You can create a unique supplemental ROL for each advanced program when making your list. Hope this helps. If it doesn't, it'll make a lot more sense once you go to apply.

 

[Naijaba]

What's the number of IR positions total? (Pgy 1 and 2). This can allow us to calculate how many New DR IR spots are created versus converted from DR

30 IR PGY-1
95 IR PGY-2
158 DR PGY-1
932 DR PGY-2
2 Nuclear Medicine + DR PGY-2

1,217 ways to become a radiologist. Actually, DR still has the alternative pathway for IMGs, which is unique to radiology as far as I know.

Edit: According to page 8 of this document, there were 1,168 DR spots last year; so that's 49 spots that were newly created for IR and 76 that were taken from DR.

 

[rads22222]

Thanks! To clarify: for categorical, you do your prelim year at the same institution that you are doing your radiology residency, whereas with advanced you will pick a prelim at an outside institution, but are already accepted to do your radiology residency at a different program?

Correct, except that most of us have to pick the prelim and advanced rad spot at the same time, without knowing which rads program we match to. So basically think of it as applying to two separate residencies, one that is for pgy1 and the other for pgy2-5. You'll make at least two different rank lists, one for prelims, and one for rads.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

30 IR PGY-1
95 IR PGY-2
158 DR PGY-1
932 DR PGY-2
2 Nuclear Medicine + DR PGY-2

1,217 ways to become a radiologist. Actually, DR still has the alternative pathway for IMGs, which is unique to radiology as far as I know.

Edit: According to page 8 of this document, there were 1,168 DR spots last year; so that's 49 spots that were newly created for IR and 76 that were taken from DR.

According to the 2016 NRMP report, there were 1133 total DR positions (151 categorical and 982 advanced), 14 IR (3 categorical and 11 advanced), and 3 nuclear medicine pgy-2 spots. Grand total of 1150. The numbers you provided show a 5.8% increase in total radiology training positions. However, the number of DR spots have decreased from 1133 to 1090 (-3.9%).

 

[Bayonetwork]

SOAPd into a solid prelim spot = fully matched!
Anyone else?