Ok, ef it. I'll chime in.
1. Low pay for specialties (rad/ortho/ent) Shouldn't join military for money
Totally agreed. I make that point all the time.
2. Deployments embrace the suck
'Truf. I don't complain about deployments because, well, that's the job. That being said, the thread is entitled "reasons not to join," which to me means the OP wanted to document his reasons for avoiding service. Unless you want to deploy, this is probably one most people would agree with. It just depends upon whether that's a deal breaker or not.
3. PT Seriously? Exercise is a reason not to join?
Yeah, I don't sweat the PT. I would venture to assume the actual complaint is making PT more of a priority than patient care. I have not personally had that experience, but it seems like a LOT of people have. If that were the case, I'd have issue with it, too.
4. Bad base locations (middle-of-nowhere Missouri, Kansas, Louisiana, other flyover holes)Travis, San Diego, Andrews, San Antonio? Agreed-some army bases are no bueno but there are others that are awesome.
But some are not awesome. I would say "uncertainty" is the reason not to join here. If you absolutely can't live in BF Kansas, you may want to reconsider.
5. Your spouse doesn't matter if (s)he is not military as far as assignments agreed; spouse's career may take a hit.
'Truf
6. Required military online training is often an insult to your intelligence (How to dress when it's cold) It's easy and does not take long. I take online training for my current job (not in military) also.
I have to agree with OP. It takes quite a bit of time to actually keep up to date. So much so that we're required to spend at least half a day every month trying to work towards what seems like an unattainable goal of being in the green. They won't let me schedule clinic or non-emergent surgery during that time. That may sound like a good thing, but my goal is patient care, not personally owned vehicle inspections. You're not going to easily find a civilian physician with that amount of ancillary training.
7. Your colleague may be a total *****, but since he has been in for longer, he outranks you, and makes more money There are *****s everywhere. I have worked with *****s in military and civilian hospitals.
Yeah, idiots abound. Not sure that ever goes away.
8. Your commander below POTUS is a nurse Sometimes, yes.
...Probably shouldn't comment....all I'll say is that the priorities in Army medicine have changed dramatically, and I don't believe in the most efficient, patient-centered way. I personally think that May be because of an unusual command perspective....
9. Your nurse probably outranks you So? She still takes orders when it comes to patient care and you make more money.
Usually. I have had run-ins with nurses who try to pull rank. My response has been to not give a crap about their rank when it comes to patient care, and so far command has been supportive. -Some- of those nurses make more than you think. I was floored when I found out what my circulating nurse brings in.
10. You are automatically demoted to "provider" level, where you are in the same group as the RN, LPN, DC, DPM, PA, DDS, social worker, etc. ?? Elaborate?
I believe that he means the Army views you as all being in one pot: physicians, nurses, chiropractors, ARNPs, CRNAs, PAs. Usually not an issue for me, but it ain't that way outside the DOD. I have seen this as an issue when, for example, the majority group (nurses) lobby command for changes that then effect all providers. But again, not the biggest hang up for me.
11. Want CME? Go pay for it yourself. Not true, at least in Air Force hospital I was in.
Definitely true. They used to pay for CME out the whazoo, but since we stopped rolling over third world countries that fountain has run dry. They pay for exactly zero CME currently.
12. Want to go away for the weekend? Nope – your "Cold Weather training" is not up-to-date. Not allowed. Anywhere you go, they need to give you permission. False.
Not false. I have seen this happen first hand. Usually when the CO has other motives, and not often, but you never know.
13. Meetings, meetings to schedule meetings, meetings to schedule meetings about having a meeting. You are (involuntarily) invited. Lots of meetings, agree. Whereas in civilian world there are none..
There are a lot outside DOD too. But I know I'm required at a lot more meetings than my civilian colleagues. What's best is that they tell me about them literally less than 48 hours before the actual meeting time. So if I have patients scheduled: sorry, SGT Johnson, your problem will have to be rescheduled. That happens ALL THE TIME.
14. Do you have a serious illness? They will never release you unless you are dead. False. Grow a pair and have an appropriate conversation with supervisor.
Can't comment for sure. I can say that the regs make it very, very unclear about what makes a provider medically unfit. So they CAN keep you around with more or less any illness so long as you can work. Whether they DO or not, I dunno. I have no plans to try to get med boarded, so whatever.
15. Potential stop-loss extremely rare.
Yeah, probably pretty rare. But this is a thread about things you should consider prior to joining. That'd be one.
16. IRR leaves you vulnerable to call-up When was last time IRR personel were used?
Same as above.
17. Lazy, incompetent civilians that can't be fired due to union protection So now military folks are better than civilians? Contradiction much?
I think what he means is that there are two kinds of civilians in DOD hospitals: those with a very specific reason for being there (spouse stationed there, spouse was military and now they're a short hop from a pension, or maybe this is their first job), and then there's everyone else. I always related military hospitals to a $#!T filter. The good employees move on to higher pay and better conditions, and the crap stays in the filter (always with some exceptions). The fact is that federal employment is one of the primary habitats of the un-fireable bitching slug. It is not a favorable species.
18. You have to go to meetings where they remind you not to rape women I have sexual harassment seminars all the time at a major civilian academic facility.
Yeah, ubiquitous. Was definitely not as frequent when I was in corporate America, but that was many moons ago.
19. Old equipment that your command won't replace. At my last duty station (when I was enlisted) equipment was constantly being upgraded.
Naw, there's a lot of crap. They ARE always working to replace it, but there's about a 2 year lag time. So it's pretty backed up with crap, like a truck stop toilet.
20. They do anything possible to extend your commitment. Want to get your (ISP) bonus in your last year? Ooops, you just signed up for 4 more months Can't comment on this; have not experienced it. But physicians I knew did not have issues. You may be correct though.
They used to let you renegotiate the dates on your ISP so that you'd get it every year. No longer is that the case. They changed the deal a while back, as is their prerogative to change the deal on you at any time (that'd be a reason not to join for me.) now you do need to stay until October to get that last ISP, even if your ADSO is up in June. For me personally, it's not worth the time earning civilian pay.
21. Need medical care? Go see how many times your physician has been sued or disciplined before he ended up washing up at your MTF BS 'nuff said.
Heheheh......sometimes there is a boogeyman....
22. Forced, often unnecessary, often dangerous vaccines. Refusal lead to prosecution. See response to#21
Haven't experienced it. Hear it all the time. Might be true, might be like Bigfoot.
23. Drug tests at 4 am. Someone actually watching you urinate into a cup. The fact that drugs stay in your system for days is lost on them. Agreed
I've been tested 7 times in 7 months. It's not even random anymore.
24. You can be forced to undergo an invasive medical treatment against your will Please elaborate?
It is possible to be required to undergo a procedure to avoid MEB. But as far as I know you can choose MEB. I personally would refuse to operate on a patient who refused a surgery, consequences be damned.
25. Your social security number is posted everywhere for thieves to take Like on billboards?
No, like in the medical record, which has been hacked at least twice that I know of in the last decade. That's why civilian hospitals assign a random number. It's not that someone couldn't hack your computer or what not, it's that the DOD has put all those eggs in one nice basket. It's a big mistake on the part of the system.
26. There is no incentive to improve your skills. No matter how good or bad you are, you still have your job. So you are not motivated to better yourself?
Not really the point. This is infused into every aspect of your job. Even if you WANT to work more, hospitals aren't set up for the individual in the DOD or in the civilian world. If the people around you don't give a crap, it is only marginally meaningful if you do. Goes back to the $#!T filter idea. I'm sure there were people in the Soviet Union who wanted to better themselves, but they stood in line for TP because no one else cared. Lack of motivation is a bad thing.
27. Progressive skill rot. Cases seen will not allow you to keep up your skills Possibly. However, I worked with many that moonlighted.
Again, still something to consider when thinking about joining. There's no guarantee that you'll be able to moonlight. For me, I can only moonlight if intake leave and go out of state. Even then, it's call coverage only, so it doesn't really help keep my skillz up to date. Luckily, currently, my practice is pretty good.
28. Moonlighting is considered a privilege, even though it is needed to keep up #27 Not if you approach correctly, others did not have an issue with this.
It is a privilege, and can be revoked at any time. That is made very clear from the get-go.
29. Want a fellowship? Minimum of 2 years extra commitment Depends on fellowship, but yes I agree. Some require 1 year extra, but you knew this going in, no?
Doesn't actually depend on the Fellowship in any capacity that the OP meant. 2 year minimum for medical fellowships, at least for any in my field.
30. Three letters – G M O You knew about this possibility going in?
My recruiters told me they did not do GMO in the Army, only the Navy. I asked that question specifically. Now, I'm not a recruiter basher, I blame the system that fails to educate them.
31. Residency training of variable, borderline deficient quality.
From my contacts (all Air Force) the training is high quality. You may have more insight than I however.
My residency training was excellent. I do know a lot of docs who don't feel the same way about their training. All I have to say about that.
Ultimately, I think you should -consider- all (most) of these issues when joining, and OP feels that these are reasons not to join. That's valid even if someone disagrees with him.
