- Joined
- Mar 27, 2007
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 4
It's pretty obvious which posters here have an 'axe to grind' and which posters are really trying to give a fair assessment of their experience in military healthcare.
37 reasons not to be a military dentist
- Thread starter navdoc47
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2009
- Messages
- 465
- Reaction score
- 5
[snarkiness alert!]
It's interesting when a civilian starts bashing the military. But as the above poster said, go scare the pre-meds and keep off the dental forum.
It's interesting when a civilian starts bashing the military. But as the above poster said, go scare the pre-meds and keep off the dental forum.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2007
- Messages
- 217
- Reaction score
- 1
I never recieved a $20,000 bonus, but the Navy reimburses me for every expensive, tuition dollar, and a nice stipend toward dental school for having signed up to take care of the men and women in uniform for 4 years of my life. For this I owe a lot to the military. Great opportunity to learn, and great oppurtunity to serve one's country. I'll never backtrack on that.
I apologize for resurrecting this thread, but as a HPSP recipient who just got into a dental school, these information scares me..
Of course I have extra dedication that steered towards getting into the military, but majority of the reason why I decided to go for HPSP is the financial reasons.
I am most likely planning on serving just 4 years after dental school or residency and going right into civilian industry.
If I were to do it just for 4 years to pay off the active duty years, would it be financially beneficial definitely?
I will be attending a private university with 80-90k per year basis tuition. Or, if I were not to accept HPSP, I may go to my state school that is.. most likely 75k grand per year, and will increase over time due to budget deficit..
I thought getting the loans getting paid off and also making few hundred grands during 4 years of AD would be tremendously beneficial for me in financial terms.
Can anyone give me advice if I am thinking logically in making decision to get into HPSP?
Of course I have extra dedication that steered towards getting into the military, but majority of the reason why I decided to go for HPSP is the financial reasons.
I am most likely planning on serving just 4 years after dental school or residency and going right into civilian industry.
If I were to do it just for 4 years to pay off the active duty years, would it be financially beneficial definitely?
I will be attending a private university with 80-90k per year basis tuition. Or, if I were not to accept HPSP, I may go to my state school that is.. most likely 75k grand per year, and will increase over time due to budget deficit..
I thought getting the loans getting paid off and also making few hundred grands during 4 years of AD would be tremendously beneficial for me in financial terms.
Can anyone give me advice if I am thinking logically in making decision to get into HPSP?
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2010
- Messages
- 28
- Reaction score
- 0
I am currently seeking the Navy HPSP scholarship and have weighed many of the pros and cons. As explained before, if you were to do your ADO (Active Duty Obligation) and get out, it is definitely worth it as long as you can handle being away for a chunk of a while if deployed. As for me, I just got engaged and discussed it with my fiance and she knows what we're getting into for my ADO. However, I do not plan on making a career out of Navy dentistry. As much as I love those who serve and want to serve them, I also want to have a family life on my own terms. This is difficult with military life, regardless of branch, because of the constant moving and what not. I CANNOT SAY FROM EXPERIENCE, but from what I have read and heard, military medicine (dental or any other health field) is not good to make a career out of unless you specialize. Even then, it is much more financially better to opt out after your ADO with a specialization, because it pays WAY more in civilian.
I truly hope I do receive the HPSP because I will take it in a heart beat. I can honestly say I have always wanted to have some part in the military, and this will be that part of my life hopefully. But more than anything I want to have a family and live my life on my own terms, leading to private practice. Hopefully in 10 years I can come back to this and tell everyone first hand of what I think, but all in all I believe the HPSP scholarship is a tremendous opportunity to take advantage of to launch your career, especially if you want to go into private practice right afterward.
In my case, I will be 26 yrs old grad from dental school, and only 30-32 after military depending on doing AEGD 1 or 2 year. At 32 yrs old at the latest, there is still plenty of life to live and get a private practice going, with the added benefits of the AEGD experience. I can start a family near the end of my military ADO with that medically taken care of (just popping a baby out is A LOT!!!), and still not be the creepy old dad at the little league games lol. And that will mean my classmates will be paying off their debt around the same time (I hear average is ~7 yrs) and then the rest will be for themselves. Of course, I would have to build up a patient base that they may already have, but being ex-military with the added experience will help tremendously more than if I just did an associateship and then had to build my own patient pool (just my opinion, may be different for actually RUNNING an office for those of you naysayers).
ALL IN ALL, if you are planning on leaving the military after your ADO, you will ultimately end up about close to your classmates that went straight into private. The real decision is what you want to get out of the years in between graduating dental school and then? For me, I want the military experience after hearing all the great experiences from other Navy dentists and servicemen. Others may want to just private practice and then once their student loans are payed off, start their own practice and yadayadayada... The choice is yours!
Thank you for your detailed reply. The last paragraph is very discouraging indeed... Are you saying that I would not really benefit from HPSP in financial terms compared to my classmates who went straight into private practice?
The amount of debt from dental school is probably going to be around 300k to 350k at least, and I thought that is quite hard to pay off in 4 years with saving some up..
I thought HPSP would be better financially because first of all you get 20k from sign up, then tuition is all paid for, and I probably will be able to save at least 500 per month from the stipend after paying housing and food bills... Over 4 years, that's like 100k... And then the salary of a military dentist is not too bad, as quoted at 60-70k... For 4 years, that is around 240k of money that I could save up...
So I thought, serving for 4 years would allow me to be debt free, and possibly even allow me to save up some money to open practice after I get out of ADO.
Also, I plan on specializing in OMS, and I thought military was a great place to practice and hone my skills before going into private.. Hm... I don't understand why you would say that I would be at same stage as other classmates that went straight into private practice.
Please enlighten me.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2008
- Messages
- 4,031
- Reaction score
- 58
This was just discussed in the Military Pay thread a little (take a look?).
I think you'll be better off in the short term than your classmates, financially. Not going to go through the whole big number crunch, it's been done ad nauseum. But I do think it holds better with you since you're taking one of the most expensive routes.
I think the bigger concern here should be whether or not you want to serve, and if you can go through it positively. If you think you'll be miserable because of the lifestyle, then the difference financially is a non-issue. On the flip side, the burden of debt can make some people pretty miserable too, you'll just have to weigh between them. For me, I enjoy the military and hate debt, so it's perfect.
Then there's the OMFS issue. I've seen threads say it's easier to get into it in the military vs civ statistically, but I can't remember how true that is. If you are absolutely certain you want OMFS, then I think this is a huge huge thing you need to research. You say get out after 4 years, which indicates to me you wouldn't even be applying to the OMFS residency in the military? If that's the case, and your end-goal is OMFS, I would think 4 years of military service is pushing back your goal 4 years, which would be unacceptable to me (this of course only applies if you're a viably strong applicant for OMFS programs). If you aren't bothered by waiting those 4 years, then I could see coming out of the military as possibly making you a stronger applicant for the OMFS programs, than right out of dental school.
Take all I've said with a grain of salt, I'm just conjecturing for the most part -- except for the part about mind-set regarding military service.
I think you'll be better off in the short term than your classmates, financially. Not going to go through the whole big number crunch, it's been done ad nauseum. But I do think it holds better with you since you're taking one of the most expensive routes.
I think the bigger concern here should be whether or not you want to serve, and if you can go through it positively. If you think you'll be miserable because of the lifestyle, then the difference financially is a non-issue. On the flip side, the burden of debt can make some people pretty miserable too, you'll just have to weigh between them. For me, I enjoy the military and hate debt, so it's perfect.
Then there's the OMFS issue. I've seen threads say it's easier to get into it in the military vs civ statistically, but I can't remember how true that is. If you are absolutely certain you want OMFS, then I think this is a huge huge thing you need to research. You say get out after 4 years, which indicates to me you wouldn't even be applying to the OMFS residency in the military? If that's the case, and your end-goal is OMFS, I would think 4 years of military service is pushing back your goal 4 years, which would be unacceptable to me (this of course only applies if you're a viably strong applicant for OMFS programs). If you aren't bothered by waiting those 4 years, then I could see coming out of the military as possibly making you a stronger applicant for the OMFS programs, than right out of dental school.
Take all I've said with a grain of salt, I'm just conjecturing for the most part -- except for the part about mind-set regarding military service.
I see, but I thought Navy HPSP had program where if I can get into a desired residency program right after dental school, they will count those years in residency as neutral years and I will be able to push back my ADO until I get out of residency?
I am planning on taking that route, going to dental school for 4 years, getting into OMS residency right after, pushing back my ADO for 4-6 years depending on the OMS program I get matched to, then serve 4 years of ADO as Navy surgeon then getting out of military to open up civilian practice.
I don't feel like it would push back my goals 4 years, because whether or not I do 4 years of ADO before OMS residency or after, the number of years that I must spend before going into civilian industry is same.
I would prefer to get my residency done before going 4 years of ADO in Navy because I would like to hone my skills in surgery in Navy before opening my own practice...
Am I thinking logically? It would be very helpful to hear from a current civilian dentist who has gone through HPSP program already.
Thank you!
I am planning on taking that route, going to dental school for 4 years, getting into OMS residency right after, pushing back my ADO for 4-6 years depending on the OMS program I get matched to, then serve 4 years of ADO as Navy surgeon then getting out of military to open up civilian practice.
I don't feel like it would push back my goals 4 years, because whether or not I do 4 years of ADO before OMS residency or after, the number of years that I must spend before going into civilian industry is same.
I would prefer to get my residency done before going 4 years of ADO in Navy because I would like to hone my skills in surgery in Navy before opening my own practice...
Am I thinking logically? It would be very helpful to hear from a current civilian dentist who has gone through HPSP program already.
Thank you!
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2009
- Messages
- 465
- Reaction score
- 5
You need to do the math.
1) Add your stipend and bonus while you're in dental school in four years.
2) Add what the military pays for in four years of school.
3) Calculate what you'll make in the military in 4 years (use current numbers) to include base pay, BAH, BAS, bonuses.
Add 1, 2 and 3.
Figure out what graduates make...usually between 120-150k/year.
Multiply that by 4.
Which number is bigger? If it's the military calculation, then it's financially worth it.
Keep also in mind that people pay down their debt with after tax dollars. In other words, people have to work *more* to pay the debt that you got as a scholarship. On top of that, you' don't have interest to pay on debt if you take the scholarship.
You should read through the forums, cause all the info is here. Read through my "One Army Dentist's Story" thread.
Final thing. If you're doing this for the money alone, reconsider. Take the scholarship with the understanding that you'll make less than your peers on AD, with the possibility of doing a deployment overseas. If you're looking to get into OMFS through the Army, I believe your chances are slightly better than on the civilian side, esp if you've built up a good reputation.
1) Add your stipend and bonus while you're in dental school in four years.
2) Add what the military pays for in four years of school.
3) Calculate what you'll make in the military in 4 years (use current numbers) to include base pay, BAH, BAS, bonuses.
Add 1, 2 and 3.
Figure out what graduates make...usually between 120-150k/year.
Multiply that by 4.
Which number is bigger? If it's the military calculation, then it's financially worth it.
Keep also in mind that people pay down their debt with after tax dollars. In other words, people have to work *more* to pay the debt that you got as a scholarship. On top of that, you' don't have interest to pay on debt if you take the scholarship.
You should read through the forums, cause all the info is here. Read through my "One Army Dentist's Story" thread.
Final thing. If you're doing this for the money alone, reconsider. Take the scholarship with the understanding that you'll make less than your peers on AD, with the possibility of doing a deployment overseas. If you're looking to get into OMFS through the Army, I believe your chances are slightly better than on the civilian side, esp if you've built up a good reputation.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2008
- Messages
- 4,031
- Reaction score
- 58
I would totally go the route you are going, but I factor in the weariness of debt far more than the time spent in the military, so I eliminate the civ route no matter what. So the only other thing you need to confirm is whether or not military residency equates to neutral years and not added ADO.
Hm... Come to think of it, I haven't taken into consideration that I would be making much more than 120k-150k a year as a fresh OMS than my classmates..
4 years as an OMS would probably easily pay off the educational debt.. Considering that residency positions do pay a little.. Probably around the similar amount as the military..
Am I correct?
4 years as an OMS would probably easily pay off the educational debt.. Considering that residency positions do pay a little.. Probably around the similar amount as the military..
Am I correct?
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,095
- Reaction score
- 20
No. At least not according o the last stats I saw. Typically military residents are the highest paid dental residents.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2005
- Messages
- 735
- Reaction score
- 109
Military residencies completed at military schools (facilities) are paid back CONCURRENTLY with HPSP scholarship payback. Concurrent means at the same time.
Not all military residencies can be completed at military schools (facilities). For example there are no Navy ortho or pedo programs.
Military residencies NOT completed at military schools (facilities) are paid back CONSECUTIVELY.
Example. Joe has a four year HPSP scholarship and wants to be an oral surgeon. He applies to the Navy DUINS board during his junior year of dental school to go straight into a OMFS program after dental school. Since Joes is a bad a** and has stellar grades and class ranking they give him his choice of doing an OMFS program at one of the Navy's programs (in-service) or applying to an out-service program (a non Navy program). If Joe chooses to do a Navy program he will spend four years in residency right out of school and accrue four more years of active duty obligation. But, because he went to a Navy program, when he's done the first year out he will pay off one year of HPSP and OMFS at the same time. After serving as an OMFS for four years, he will be completely done with his payback.
However, if he chooses to do an out-service program, let's say a 6-year program, he'll have to serve 10 years as an OMFS in the Navy after he gets back from that program before he's done with his obligation.
Most programs are year for year, but not all.
The Navy's endo program, will still require you to serve three years even though the program is only two years long. But if you do the Navy's endo, at least those years can be paid back concurrently. However, because the Navy knows how sweet of a deal that is, they usually won't accept anyone into endo right out of dental school.
Prosth though is a different story. They take people straight into prosth right out of school all the time. If you want to do prosth and want to be career Navy, it's a sweet deal.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2010
- Messages
- 36
- Reaction score
- 0
This is a correspondence i had with EdwardKim. I just thought i would share it with everyone. Hopefully this clarifies things, i have checked these with multiple sources and am pretty sure it is all correct.
cgurries said:
EdwardKim said:
cgurries said:
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2008
- Messages
- 4,031
- Reaction score
- 58
Ahh, excellent clarification. Though I don't really understand the thing about them not taking people from dental school directly into endo(and ortho from what I've heard, though that one makes the most sense), I'd have thought OMFS would've been restricted more than endo, but that's definitely not the case. (Are military dentists just not applying as much to OMFS?)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2010
- Messages
- 28
- Reaction score
- 0
It all depends to be honest because we are running numbers on "averages" for civilian. It's actually funny, but you are thinking of the same route I am thinking. I'm not 100%, but it is a definite possibility for me to go the OMFS route through military. On that note, it would TOTALLY be worth it because you get a HUGE pay increase for becoming OMFS. Obviously it wouldn't be as much as civilian pay, but more than enough to get by until ADO is over. It is considered concurrent when doing residency payback, so you do 4 years ADO as an OMFS, which would be awesome experience before going civilian. Although take to mind that as the previous posts stated, there are WAY less OMFS than general dentists, so it's practically guaranteed that you WILL get deployed during your ADO. Take it how you want it, but I think it would be a tremendous experience as an OMFS.
As far as straight up HPSP and general dentistry, you would probably come out ahead of your classmates. I just did a quick number crunch, and you will make about $72,000/yr as a dentist in the Navy with BAH, BAS, and dentist specific additional pay(but only ~$43,000 base pay (taxable) at $3,660/month as an O-3 with no experience). Yes, it isn't exactly a lot, but as you stated, NO STUDENT LOANS TO PAY BACK! Also to think about, you don't get the $20k sign-on bonus until graduating dental school, and it is taxable and given in 3 separate payments, although very close to each other. I had the same plan as to save as much as I could and buy a practice after getting out. I will be attending Loma Linda in Cali, which is $70k/year and about $300k total. Since this is substantially more than the average dental school, then the HPSP is totally worth it to me. Living comfortably in Cali with a great education will be awesome in my opinion.
Although one thing to take note is that it will be more competitive to get OMFS straight out of dental school, as the applicants have been rising from what I hear. Don't know how true it is, but take it with a grain of salt.
Good luck to you, and hopefully you hear back soon about HPSP! I was told I will know by the end of February, so I will be back to let y'all know.
(On a side note, I know I'm new, but I have been reading posts and getting info for ~1year before applying to dental school. So I have read and got much info from other posts)
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,095
- Reaction score
- 20
I want to post some clarifications about Active Duty Service Obligations (ADSO).
If you have a 4-year HPSP and owe the AF 4-years and apply and get accepted to OMS (for example). You will most likely go to the base at which you will train for approximately 10 months. During that 10 months you pay off 10 months of your HPSP ADSO. This is usually done for 2 reasons. 1. You must go to COT and since you wouldn't graduate until after the residency has started, you cannot start the same year you graduate. 2. Enough highly qualified applicants applied at a previous board that 2 years of classes were filled.
Once you start your residency, you stop paying anything back. Federal law says you cannot payback an educational ADSO (HPSP ADSO) while in education (OMS residency). However, your residency ADSO and your HPSP ADSO can be paid back concurrently. So, at the end of your program you would owe 3 years for HPSP and 4 years for OMS. Since they are paid concurrently, you would pay back the HPSP years with the first 3 years of your OMS payback and then just owe 1 more year. So to boil it down, you would spend 4 years in the AF after your OMS program for a total of 8 years.
** These numbers only count if you do a military program. If you apply through the military system and you go to a civilian program via AFIT, the ADSO is calculated differently and paid back consecutively. **
If you have a 4-year HPSP and owe the AF 4-years and apply and get accepted to OMS (for example). You will most likely go to the base at which you will train for approximately 10 months. During that 10 months you pay off 10 months of your HPSP ADSO. This is usually done for 2 reasons. 1. You must go to COT and since you wouldn't graduate until after the residency has started, you cannot start the same year you graduate. 2. Enough highly qualified applicants applied at a previous board that 2 years of classes were filled.
Once you start your residency, you stop paying anything back. Federal law says you cannot payback an educational ADSO (HPSP ADSO) while in education (OMS residency). However, your residency ADSO and your HPSP ADSO can be paid back concurrently. So, at the end of your program you would owe 3 years for HPSP and 4 years for OMS. Since they are paid concurrently, you would pay back the HPSP years with the first 3 years of your OMS payback and then just owe 1 more year. So to boil it down, you would spend 4 years in the AF after your OMS program for a total of 8 years.
** These numbers only count if you do a military program. If you apply through the military system and you go to a civilian program via AFIT, the ADSO is calculated differently and paid back consecutively. **
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,095
- Reaction score
- 20
The Navy does have an Ortho Program. Actually it is a tri-service program that has Army, Navy and Air Force residents and it is located at Lackland AFB.
All services require a 3 year ADSO for a 2 year Endo or Ortho Program.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2010
- Messages
- 36
- Reaction score
- 0
Nice. Agree with everything, accept....when all said and done, you would essentially be in closer to 9 years since you spent that 10 months as a GP before starting your residency.
1 yr GP before residency (counts as 1 HPSP)
4 years OMFS residency
4 years ADO payback (3 HPSP + 1 OMFS)
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2010
- Messages
- 36
- Reaction score
- 0
From what i have heard, you don't have to wait as long to apply for OS positions because fewer people want to spend that long in residency. It is by far the longest residency in the dental profession, especially if you choose the 6-year civilian route (although 2-3 of those years are in Med school). This applies to the civilian sector too. Ortho is one of the most popular essentially because it is so lucrative for such little time commitment.
Is AFIT the same thing as being "allowed to apply to a civilian residency." I've heard that if your branch anticipates needing to fill billets beyond its capacity to train (ie. the numbers it will produce from its own military programs) then it may allow some graduating HPSP and HSCP recipients to apply directly to civilian residencies. In this case, you're essentially on hiatus for four years while you complete your civilian residency, drawing no military compensation or benefits. Then, you simply owe your 3-4 years of ADSO for the original scholarship.
Do I have that right or am I way off? It would make sense that this route not add to ADSO in any way since the military isn't paying you anything during residency. They're basically trading (free of charge) the opportunity to have a general dentist serve now for having a specialist serve a few years down the road. Good deal on their end, I would think.
P.S. I've been mostly talking to Navy recruiters so this may be a case where AF and Navy differ. I know you mentioned that the AF just recently graduated its first "straight-through" specialist in another thread.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2010
- Messages
- 36
- Reaction score
- 0
You have it right. I addressed this in my earlier post to EdwardKim. For the AF, if all military residencies are filled, they may let you apply to civilian residencies. In this case, like you said, you are on a "hiatus" from the military until you finish your residency (no pay, no responsibilities, etc.). When you are done, you would owe your original ADO as a specialist (in which case you will get better pay).
Keep in mind, however, that it all depends on their needs the year you apply for residency, you may or may not be allowed to apply for civilian, and from what i hear, it is more likely that they will not let you.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2005
- Messages
- 735
- Reaction score
- 109
In the last year, I have worked with two Navy OMFS drop-outs. When you drop out of a Navy OMFS program, you are generally given a certificate in Exodontia. For those of you who don't know what that means, it means you're a dentist who has limited his practice of dentistry to only extractions.
One of these exodontists dropped out during his final year of a four year program. He began to tell me that they treated him very poorly as a resident, so bad that he just couldn't take it anymore. I didn't ask him to go into details because the facts speak for themselves. No one drops out of a four year program unless it's truly unbearable. A Navy investigation took place because he was the third drop out from that program in less than a year. I understand that at least one person was let go from the program while others are under probation.
The other's story was the same although he was at a different Navy OMFS program. He told me that he never had enough time to go home, bath, eat, etc. He told me that sometimes he wouldn't even change his underwear for days at a time simply because he worked all night long. The instructors chewed tobacco in the OR's and expected him to do it too. He picked up that habit just to stay awake and "fit in". On the occasions that he was able to go home, he would nearly wreck his car by falling asleep at the wheel. Additionally, he told me that there was a resident who was a closet "flamer". It was pretty obvious but the guy was really brilliant and tried not to be annoying about it. He said the instructors wouldn't allow him to graduate from the program because they didn't want him be join their "OMFS" club. Mind you, I'm paraphrasing. He said that it was a real Good 'ol boys club and that if you weren't like them, you would not be allowed to graduate. That's one of the reasons he picked up dipping.
The bottom line is that these OMFS programs, like outside OMFS programs, are very demanding and there a lot of games that are played. Keep in mind this is third person, I didn't do an OMFS program. I may not have my facts straight, but this is the impression that they gave me.
You couldn't pay me a million dollars a year to do an OMFS program.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2005
- Messages
- 735
- Reaction score
- 109
OK so yes there is a semi-Navy Ortho program in that the Navy makes up a third of the class with Army and AF also being present and it is at a military facility which means that technically it's possible to have concurrent payback but I highly doubt the Navy would accept anyone no matter what their grades looked like until after they had fulfilled their entire HPSP payback. The Navy isn't stupid, they know you'd leave ASAP if they gave you the chance.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2008
- Messages
- 4,031
- Reaction score
- 58
Sounds like if you were interested while in dental school you'd definitely want to do an externship with the OMFS program before deciding on applying.
Personally, the 2 year comp dentist residency is sounding like the best deal for a lifer, to me at least.
Thank you so much for all the insights! Wow, this has been really helpful..
The biggest question here is... Will taking HPSP scholarship be financially beneficial if I were to pursue OMFS as my final career goal? Assuming that my educational debt would be around 280-300k.
Another thing is, how hard is it to get into military OMS residency straight out of dental school, and is it possible? Of course there has to be that 1 year of military general dentistry involved, but how likely is it that I could get in right after doing that 1 year?
Also, what if I were to apply to civilian OMS residency and military OMS residency (because it is mandatory) right after dental school, and check the "civilian deferrment" box, how does it exactly work?
Would I still be going to civilian residency interviews just like my other classmates who are pursuing OMS? The 1 year of being a military general dentist is due to the wait time of getting a spot in military OMS residency, right? Does that mean you could defer to civilian residency if you can match to civilian residency?
It would be extremely helpful if one could provide a timeline of what could potentially happen in the residency application process.
3 years of dental school -> applications to civ OMS residency during 3rd yr dental school as well as military OMS residency application -> graduate -> don't do the 1 yr military general dentistry if got accepted to civ OMS residency -> if you didn't get accepted to civ OMS residency, then go on 1 yr general military dentistry -> 4 yr military OMS residency -> 5 yrs of payback for HPSP and residency.
Sorry if I caused any confusions.
Again, thank you so much for all your contributions! I am learning a lot.
The biggest question here is... Will taking HPSP scholarship be financially beneficial if I were to pursue OMFS as my final career goal? Assuming that my educational debt would be around 280-300k.
Another thing is, how hard is it to get into military OMS residency straight out of dental school, and is it possible? Of course there has to be that 1 year of military general dentistry involved, but how likely is it that I could get in right after doing that 1 year?
Also, what if I were to apply to civilian OMS residency and military OMS residency (because it is mandatory) right after dental school, and check the "civilian deferrment" box, how does it exactly work?
Would I still be going to civilian residency interviews just like my other classmates who are pursuing OMS? The 1 year of being a military general dentist is due to the wait time of getting a spot in military OMS residency, right? Does that mean you could defer to civilian residency if you can match to civilian residency?
It would be extremely helpful if one could provide a timeline of what could potentially happen in the residency application process.
3 years of dental school -> applications to civ OMS residency during 3rd yr dental school as well as military OMS residency application -> graduate -> don't do the 1 yr military general dentistry if got accepted to civ OMS residency -> if you didn't get accepted to civ OMS residency, then go on 1 yr general military dentistry -> 4 yr military OMS residency -> 5 yrs of payback for HPSP and residency.
Sorry if I caused any confusions.
Again, thank you so much for all your contributions! I am learning a lot.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2010
- Messages
- 36
- Reaction score
- 0
Here's an example. Your last year, you apply for the military residency. A little later, you apply for civilian residency. While you are waiting to hear back from the military residency, you go to all of your interviews for civilian residency (December-ish). Once you hear back from the military (which is before the civilian), you do what they say. If they have matched you in a military residency, you have to withdraw from all civilian residencies and accept the military one. You do that year of GP because your last year of school usually overlaps with when the residency for that year starts. In the military you are essentially applying for next year's residency, unless someone drops out last minute of this years...
If you hear back from the military saying you may pursue a civilian deferment, than you continue your civilian applications and hope to match there.
bottom line is that the military residency comes first...not the other way around.
It probably isn't worth it if you really want to do a civilian residency and would be disappointed about doing a military one. There is a lot of uncertainty and you will probably make yourself miserable constantly trying to make everything work out just so. People pay off loans all the time. Most dentists and OMFSs go the civilian route and do just fine. It is only financially worth it if the other aspects are worth it to you, not the finances alone. Yo have to want to be in the military for more than just the money , or else you will be disappointed.
Thank you very much.
But I thought dental students, if they want to go to civilian residency, start applying to residencies during their 3rd year? Or are you required to wait until 4th year to apply to civilian residency as well?
Also, I am not considering HPSP just for the financial aspect.. I have repeated that statement multiple times now.
I do want to experience the military, but if it is financially DAMAGING, then I would rather not suffer financially and get arguably harder lifestyle as a military dentist.
Now, for the financial aspect, I've been trying to calculate the balances on each side.. But since I don't know the exact data on compensations, it has been hard.
Here is what I am coming up with:
Normal route
300k educational debt. Starting oral surgeon makes around 180-200k out of residency. Taxed 30%~ (right?) net income 133k. Live like a student for 3 years (meaning 10-15k expenditure per year, especially maybe work in a rural area where it is cheaper to live and pay is higher). Easily paid up the 300k educational debt, even with the accrued interest. On top of that, while in civilian residency (most likely a 6 year program because I prefer the 6 year program), your salary as an intern is 40-50k a year, increasing per year as you get promoted as Resident I-> II -> III -> etc. roughly, let's estimate low and say that salary is 40k per year. 30%~ tax. 28k net income. 28*6 = 168k net. Of course, living cost must get counted, so -68k or so, so ~100k net income from residency, but I think you have to pay 2 years of med school, like 40k per year, so only 20k net profit. Still, it is profit... Also, compared to military's 9 year total program (1 yr general + 4 yr residency + 4 yr military OS), you have extra 3 years of working as a civilian oral surgeon.
Conclusion: 3 years as a fresh OS would let you be free of debt with more freedom and no worries about random relocation or deployment. Total time: 4 dental + 6 residency + 3 loan payback = ~13 yrs. or ~11 yrs if I choose to do 4 yr residency.
HPSP route- military residency
No educational debt. 20k from sign up. Apply to military residency. If got in, then 60k for the first year as a general dentist. 4 years of residency (how much do residents get paid per year?). After, 5 years of AD as military oral surgeon (again, how much is the pay?) While in dental school, 2060 dollars/mo for stipend. I will live frugally (through my undergraduate years, I lived off 40-50 dollars food bill per month and rent was only 450, in LA), and because 2060 dollars get taxed and comes down to like 1700, let's be generous and say I can save 1k per month (now, how many months would be awarded?). Add in the annual training income as military personnel (again, I have no idea how much this is... Please help me.)
Conclusion :xxx amount of net financial benefit (I would like some figures to complete my conclusion) Total time: 4 yr dental + 1 yr gen mil dent + 4 mil res. + 4 mil OS = ~13 yrs with net save up.. To be calculated..
HPSP route - civilian residency
No educational debt. 20k from sign up. Applied to military residency with civilian deferment, and was able to match into civilian residency instead. Get paid as resident, but as calculated above in my Normal Route, net profit will be around 20k. Now serve 4 years as military oral surgeon (not sure about the salary..)
Conclusion: The worst route financially. Total time: 4 yr dental school + 6 yr civilian residency (here, you don't have to do 1 yr of general dentistry in military, correct?) + 4 year of AD = ~14 years. Not sure about net save-up, either.
Please help me figure out the unknown figures, if you can.
Thank you very much, and please point out my mistake if you find any.
I really appreciate all this help from more experienced professionals!
But I thought dental students, if they want to go to civilian residency, start applying to residencies during their 3rd year? Or are you required to wait until 4th year to apply to civilian residency as well?
Also, I am not considering HPSP just for the financial aspect.. I have repeated that statement multiple times now.
I do want to experience the military, but if it is financially DAMAGING, then I would rather not suffer financially and get arguably harder lifestyle as a military dentist.
Now, for the financial aspect, I've been trying to calculate the balances on each side.. But since I don't know the exact data on compensations, it has been hard.
Here is what I am coming up with:
Normal route
300k educational debt. Starting oral surgeon makes around 180-200k out of residency. Taxed 30%~ (right?) net income 133k. Live like a student for 3 years (meaning 10-15k expenditure per year, especially maybe work in a rural area where it is cheaper to live and pay is higher). Easily paid up the 300k educational debt, even with the accrued interest. On top of that, while in civilian residency (most likely a 6 year program because I prefer the 6 year program), your salary as an intern is 40-50k a year, increasing per year as you get promoted as Resident I-> II -> III -> etc. roughly, let's estimate low and say that salary is 40k per year. 30%~ tax. 28k net income. 28*6 = 168k net. Of course, living cost must get counted, so -68k or so, so ~100k net income from residency, but I think you have to pay 2 years of med school, like 40k per year, so only 20k net profit. Still, it is profit... Also, compared to military's 9 year total program (1 yr general + 4 yr residency + 4 yr military OS), you have extra 3 years of working as a civilian oral surgeon.
Conclusion: 3 years as a fresh OS would let you be free of debt with more freedom and no worries about random relocation or deployment. Total time: 4 dental + 6 residency + 3 loan payback = ~13 yrs. or ~11 yrs if I choose to do 4 yr residency.
HPSP route- military residency
No educational debt. 20k from sign up. Apply to military residency. If got in, then 60k for the first year as a general dentist. 4 years of residency (how much do residents get paid per year?). After, 5 years of AD as military oral surgeon (again, how much is the pay?) While in dental school, 2060 dollars/mo for stipend. I will live frugally (through my undergraduate years, I lived off 40-50 dollars food bill per month and rent was only 450, in LA), and because 2060 dollars get taxed and comes down to like 1700, let's be generous and say I can save 1k per month (now, how many months would be awarded?). Add in the annual training income as military personnel (again, I have no idea how much this is... Please help me.)
Conclusion :xxx amount of net financial benefit (I would like some figures to complete my conclusion) Total time: 4 yr dental + 1 yr gen mil dent + 4 mil res. + 4 mil OS = ~13 yrs with net save up.. To be calculated..
HPSP route - civilian residency
No educational debt. 20k from sign up. Applied to military residency with civilian deferment, and was able to match into civilian residency instead. Get paid as resident, but as calculated above in my Normal Route, net profit will be around 20k. Now serve 4 years as military oral surgeon (not sure about the salary..)
Conclusion: The worst route financially. Total time: 4 yr dental school + 6 yr civilian residency (here, you don't have to do 1 yr of general dentistry in military, correct?) + 4 year of AD = ~14 years. Not sure about net save-up, either.
Please help me figure out the unknown figures, if you can.
Thank you very much, and please point out my mistake if you find any.
I really appreciate all this help from more experienced professionals!
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2010
- Messages
- 28
- Reaction score
- 0
So I have been trying to find the specifics of the HPSP program and how it ACTUALLY works while in dental school, and I came across this:
http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navme...ionsScholarshipPrograms(CurrentStudents).aspx
EDIT: If the link doesn't work (didn't for me), then just google "navy health profession" and it is the one with the "Health Professions Scholarship Program (Current Students)." It has details about many other things as well.
After looking at how the stipend works, it looks like you get a direct deposit every 1st and 15th of the month. The stipend will last for 10.5 months. Then there is the AT (annual training) where you get payed as an Ensign for 1.5months. This is supposed to be when you do your clerkship and stuff, but most people cannot due to the school schedule so they are told to "stay at school while on AT" and this counts for it.
As far as your other question for residency pay, I read somewhere on here that it was about $80-$90k/year. This was one of the reasons for doing military residency, because it is double the pay almost. To be honest, it's didn't matter much to me how much I got payed as a resident, but it is always nice having a lil more money. Although while doing military resident, what are you going to spend it on? (with BAH and BAS) So I guess it would be saved for after graduation and starting own practice? Or a house or w/e your heart desires... but an extra 30-40k/year would help in the long run.
I'm curious about what Tooth said about the OMFS residency though, that kind of worries me a bit. I mean could they really not let you "pass" just because they didn't like you? Or you didn't "hang with the boys"? I am somewhat skeptical about that, but if there was really a Navy investigation, that definitely worries me.
I too would like to know the odds of getting into the OMFS residency straight out of dental school? I mean, if not, then you can apply the following year and you would serve 2 years HPSP, 4 years residency, then 4 years ADO (2 years concurrent with HPSP) right? Hopefully that won't happen, but I'm sure residencies are always competitive.
Hmm. So in the end, it would actually be beneficial in financial aspect to go with the HPSP.
I think I probably will commit myself to it. Especially also because military residencies are considered to be a little bit "easier" to get in compared to civilian residency..
I wish there was a military OMS residency candidate here so we could ask questions..
I wonder if military will actually allow us to transition right into OMS residency after just 1 year of working as military general dentist.. It would not be good deal for them when they could just keep us hanging for 3-4 years as military gen dentist then let us go into their residency to re-use us for next 4 years...
What is the policy if you get rejected from military residency but get accepted to civilian residency, and you preferred to defer fro military residency if possible?
Thank you!
I think I probably will commit myself to it. Especially also because military residencies are considered to be a little bit "easier" to get in compared to civilian residency..
I wish there was a military OMS residency candidate here so we could ask questions..
I wonder if military will actually allow us to transition right into OMS residency after just 1 year of working as military general dentist.. It would not be good deal for them when they could just keep us hanging for 3-4 years as military gen dentist then let us go into their residency to re-use us for next 4 years...
What is the policy if you get rejected from military residency but get accepted to civilian residency, and you preferred to defer fro military residency if possible?
Thank you!
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,688
- Reaction score
- 61
In the Army you can not apply for civilian residencies unless you get prior approval from Army Graduate Dental Education (this typically does not happen so don't count on it.).
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,688
- Reaction score
- 61
Edward - please search the threads. Many of the questions and information you are asking has been covered several times over. As you search you will also find threads by Oral Surgeons and Oral Surgery residents.
Also if you are looking at the Army - please understand you may deploy. If this is not something you would consider - do not join.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,095
- Reaction score
- 20
Same for the AF.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,095
- Reaction score
- 20
Not exactly.
Being "allowed to apply" to a civilian residency when coming out of dental school usually is actually asking for an educational deferrment from entering active duty. If allowed to defer your entry to active duty, you will pay for the program yourself, you will not be on active duty or reserve status and you will not get paid or have benefits. Now, it is possible to receive an AFIT slot coming out of school, in which case you would be on active duty, being paid with benefits, but training at a civilian institution. Neither of these situations happen very often in the AF. Maybe 1 every 3 or 4 years.
AFIT is Air Force Institute of Technology. HPSP and other training is handled through them. The way it works for residencies with AFIT slots is like this. The consultant for each specialty projects how many people will be getting out and staying in for their specialty and comes up with a number that we need totrain to keep their specialty as close to fully manned as possible. They then request those training slots. If the need is higher than what we can train in our military programs, the specialty might have the opportunity to send out some people to civilian institutions via AFIT.
You apply to the military board. The board looks at all the applicants. If there are enough qualified applicants to fill the military programs and to send someone to a civilian program, the board will decide who goes where. You don't necessarily get to choose. You do have the opportunity to state your case as to why you want one over the other, but ultimately, its the board's decision.
If you train in a military program, your payback is concurrent with your other paybacks. If you train via AFIT, your payback is consecutive with your other paybacks. Why? you may ask. Because you are treating military beneficiaries in a military program and still contributing to the mission. If training at a civilian program, you won't be seeing military beneficiaries.
Being "allowed to apply" to a civilian residency when coming out of dental school usually is actually asking for an educational deferrment from entering active duty. If allowed to defer your entry to active duty, you will pay for the program yourself, you will not be on active duty or reserve status and you will not get paid or have benefits. Now, it is possible to receive an AFIT slot coming out of school, in which case you would be on active duty, being paid with benefits, but training at a civilian institution. Neither of these situations happen very often in the AF. Maybe 1 every 3 or 4 years.
AFIT is Air Force Institute of Technology. HPSP and other training is handled through them. The way it works for residencies with AFIT slots is like this. The consultant for each specialty projects how many people will be getting out and staying in for their specialty and comes up with a number that we need totrain to keep their specialty as close to fully manned as possible. They then request those training slots. If the need is higher than what we can train in our military programs, the specialty might have the opportunity to send out some people to civilian institutions via AFIT.
You apply to the military board. The board looks at all the applicants. If there are enough qualified applicants to fill the military programs and to send someone to a civilian program, the board will decide who goes where. You don't necessarily get to choose. You do have the opportunity to state your case as to why you want one over the other, but ultimately, its the board's decision.
If you train in a military program, your payback is concurrent with your other paybacks. If you train via AFIT, your payback is consecutive with your other paybacks. Why? you may ask. Because you are treating military beneficiaries in a military program and still contributing to the mission. If training at a civilian program, you won't be seeing military beneficiaries.
These are great comments, I really appreciate it.
There are few questions that are still lingering at the back of my mind, and even my recruiter could not answer these questions with clarity..
non-HPSP recipent dental students apply to residency during their 3rd year, and start going to interviews during their 4th year, and without taking a year off after graduation from dental school, they start their residency the year they graduate, correct?
Will HPSP dental student be able to apply to civilian residency along with his classmates if he asks for permission to Navy Graduate Dental Education officer in advance for deferment, so he can enter civilian residency right after dental school without taking a year off?
Or is it mandatory that he waits until he graduates then serve 1 year as a Navy dentist then apply to Navy OMS program as well as civilian programs with civilian deferment option?
Also, how likely is it that a 1st year Navy dentist applying for Navy OMS program to be admitted into the program with a stat that is competitive for civilian residencies (90+ boards, top 10% in class, research publications, leadership activities, strong letters)? If you are able to concurrently apply to both Navy program as well as civilian program with civilian deferment option, and you were not accepted to Navy program for some reason but accepted to civilian programs, then would you be able to go to civilian residency?
Sorry, the whole process is just so confusing to me... I don't have any contact in Navy Graduate Dental Education department to ask questions..
Thank you once again.
There are few questions that are still lingering at the back of my mind, and even my recruiter could not answer these questions with clarity..
non-HPSP recipent dental students apply to residency during their 3rd year, and start going to interviews during their 4th year, and without taking a year off after graduation from dental school, they start their residency the year they graduate, correct?
Will HPSP dental student be able to apply to civilian residency along with his classmates if he asks for permission to Navy Graduate Dental Education officer in advance for deferment, so he can enter civilian residency right after dental school without taking a year off?
Or is it mandatory that he waits until he graduates then serve 1 year as a Navy dentist then apply to Navy OMS program as well as civilian programs with civilian deferment option?
Also, how likely is it that a 1st year Navy dentist applying for Navy OMS program to be admitted into the program with a stat that is competitive for civilian residencies (90+ boards, top 10% in class, research publications, leadership activities, strong letters)? If you are able to concurrently apply to both Navy program as well as civilian program with civilian deferment option, and you were not accepted to Navy program for some reason but accepted to civilian programs, then would you be able to go to civilian residency?
Sorry, the whole process is just so confusing to me... I don't have any contact in Navy Graduate Dental Education department to ask questions..
Thank you once again.
Edward,
The information that your are seeking isn't obtainable. What I mean is the needs of the service might be significant for a particular specialty for a number of years and then not at other times.
What happens at this time in regards to out service training might not happen in a few years.
If you are dead set on OMS directly following graduation and you can get accepted to a civilian program that is your only guaranteed way of getting training straight through without joining the service.
The needs of the military are first so you will get no guarantees if you join.
Not trying to rain on your parade, this is the reality of the situation.
Last edited:
Of course, Kabek, Thank you very much for your insight.
I am just trying to plan stuff out, I haven't experienced anything yet, I haven't even started dental school yet.
I just like to know thoroughly of my life plan, so I've been asking these questions.
Are you in military dentistry?
Also, if anyone else can add more to Kabek's reply, please feel free to provide more information.
I am just trying to plan stuff out, I haven't experienced anything yet, I haven't even started dental school yet.
I just like to know thoroughly of my life plan, so I've been asking these questions.
Are you in military dentistry?
Also, if anyone else can add more to Kabek's reply, please feel free to provide more information.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2006
- Messages
- 700
- Reaction score
- 12
Best advice I ever received was "don't make plans, they always change." I'm not saying that one shouldn't have goals or seek to fulfill desires, I've just noticed that life brings very unpredictable events and scenarios. Things you never thought you'd enjoy might become enjoyable; likewise, things you thought you'd enjoy might turn out to be horrible. You just never know. Maybe I'm just a different personality type. Forget all this financial talk...if you know in your heart that you want to serve then do it. It is totally normal to have reservations but if military life is what you desire then take the plunge. If it's something you are doing just for the money or to become an OMFS then my opinion is that maybe it's not for you. I see pictures of dentists in full combat dress with an M16 next to Afghan village children and it excites me, that's how I know I made the right decision. Not saying you should have the same feelings but if military life is what you want, then take that scholarship and don't look back.
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2008
- Messages
- 657
- Reaction score
- 0
this is great advice. The military is something of a life experience. You have to make the most of it. FOr most, it will be life changing, you will experience things you will never encounter ever in civilian life. The financial benefits have to be secondary to your willingness to serve. Your plan of dental school + OMFS is great thinking but may change as you experience OS rotation or grow greater interests in other specialty programs. After going through my rotations, I decided maybe GP is the best route and doing an AEGD or GPR will probably satisfy my needs and career goals.
If you are really thinking of OMFS through the military then plan out probably 8-10 years minimum. TO be selected straight out of school is very difficult and sometimes there is that 1 year wait to begin your residency program. Although doing a civilian residency and graduating as an OS will start your salary very high, it is very possible to pay back all your loans and live a good lifestyle within 5-10 years. My cousin did the 6-year OS program (civilian) and now works as a hospital as an oral surgeon and takes in ~200K entry salary.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2010
- Messages
- 28
- Reaction score
- 0
Don't mean to change the subject, but it seems my question is related.
I too am SERIOUSLY considering OMFS through Navy. I will find out by end of February if I am awarded the HPSP for Navy, so I'm crossing my fingers.
Anyways, I was wondering, how long would the military commitment be if doing the HPSP program? Along the lines of that, how competitive is it to get into OMFS? I know that it is relative to the military needs, but since I hear it is difficult to get in right after graduating (knowing I have to wait a year to actually go to residency), I figure it might be 2 years before being accepted to the program? If I'm doing the math correctly, that means I would do 2 years of HPSP payback right out of D school, then go into residency for 4 years, then serve 4 years of ADO (2 years concurrent HPSP and 2 more years for OMFS).
I'm in the same boat as EdwardKim, so I feel we are seeking a lot of the same answers. Also, if I were not to get accepted after D school, should I do the AEGD program? Like to boost Resume for competitiveness for OMFS? Or would I be able to get in after a year of service doing General Dent? I know it's probably difficult to answer these questions with certainty, but anyone who has any idea, it would be GREATLY appreciated!
I too am SERIOUSLY considering OMFS through Navy. I will find out by end of February if I am awarded the HPSP for Navy, so I'm crossing my fingers.
Anyways, I was wondering, how long would the military commitment be if doing the HPSP program? Along the lines of that, how competitive is it to get into OMFS? I know that it is relative to the military needs, but since I hear it is difficult to get in right after graduating (knowing I have to wait a year to actually go to residency), I figure it might be 2 years before being accepted to the program? If I'm doing the math correctly, that means I would do 2 years of HPSP payback right out of D school, then go into residency for 4 years, then serve 4 years of ADO (2 years concurrent HPSP and 2 more years for OMFS).
I'm in the same boat as EdwardKim, so I feel we are seeking a lot of the same answers. Also, if I were not to get accepted after D school, should I do the AEGD program? Like to boost Resume for competitiveness for OMFS? Or would I be able to get in after a year of service doing General Dent? I know it's probably difficult to answer these questions with certainty, but anyone who has any idea, it would be GREATLY appreciated!
Yes, we are on the exact same boat! Another question to add to this: is it possible to apply to multiple military programs in one year? For example, both AEGD and OMS program? Also, if I were to be selected in the program, but I Have a change of mind, may I withdraw my application for more deserving applicant to take my place?
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,688
- Reaction score
- 61
Yes you can apply for 2 programs and you will list them as first choice and 2nd choice. You may back out of a program all the way up until the start date and not incur any additional obligation.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2009
- Messages
- 204
- Reaction score
- 2
For OMFS FY2011, there were 13 applicants and 6 were taken into the program. Not sure how many were straight out of school though... Some years have higher %, just depends on the needs for that specific year.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2010
- Messages
- 28
- Reaction score
- 0
Well that's a relief, then I could apply for both OMS and AEGD for my current plan. Along the lines of that (and I'm sure EdwardKim would like to know), if you do the 1-year AEGD out of D school, what are your chances of getting into OMS after that? It seems like this is the typical route advised by many on these forums since it's kind of rare to be accepted into OMS straight out of D school. Now that I think about it, if you did the 1-year AEGD program, wouldn't you be applying for the same year of OMS residency as straight out of D school? Because I thought you had to wait ~1 year even if you got in right away because it starts earlier than D school ends typically. If this is true and I didn't get into OMS straight out, decided to do a 1-year AEGD, would it then be 2 years before I got into OMS at the soonest because I would need to apply for the year after the first available year out of D school (like 1 year after the chance of getting accepted to OMS straight out of D school)? Sorry if that's confusing
That seems fairly reasonable as I have seen that the acceptance rate to be somewhere between 50~60%. Just wondering, where are you getting these stats from? I have tried to obtain military dental stats and cannot find them (like maybe it has HPSP stats apps/accepts too?). Another poster had all the apps/accepts for ALL specialties for I think 2008. Just wondering if it's inside info or available to public?
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2009
- Messages
- 204
- Reaction score
- 2
Well that's a relief, then I could apply for both OMS and AEGD for my current plan. Along the lines of that (and I'm sure EdwardKim would like to know), if you do the 1-year AEGD out of D school, what are your chances of getting into OMS after that? It seems like this is the typical route advised by many on these forums since it's kind of rare to be accepted into OMS straight out of D school. Now that I think about it, if you did the 1-year AEGD program, wouldn't you be applying for the same year of OMS residency as straight out of D school? Because I thought you had to wait ~1 year even if you got in right away because it starts earlier than D school ends typically. If this is true and I didn't get into OMS straight out, decided to do a 1-year AEGD, would it then be 2 years before I got into OMS at the soonest because I would need to apply for the year after the first available year out of D school (like 1 year after the chance of getting accepted to OMS straight out of D school)? Sorry if that's confusing
That seems fairly reasonable as I have seen that the acceptance rate to be somewhere between 50~60%. Just wondering, where are you getting these stats from? I have tried to obtain military dental stats and cannot find them (like maybe it has HPSP stats apps/accepts too?). Another poster had all the apps/accepts for ALL specialties for I think 2008. Just wondering if it's inside info or available to public?
CAPT Hartzell. He presented at our school last week. It was also 67% for Pros, 50% Perio, 28% for endo, and 11% for ortho. I don't have written down what the applicant/resident ratios were, but chances are decent for getting in. OMFS and Pros are the greatest needs of the Navy, so they are pretty much the only specialties that are accepting students right out of school.
Remember that the stats will change from year to year, so take them with a grain of salt. The needs of the Navy may change by the time you graduate. However, pros and OMFS tend to stay around the same...
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,688
- Reaction score
- 61
Well that's a relief, then I could apply for both OMS and AEGD for my current plan. Along the lines of that (and I'm sure EdwardKim would like to know), if you do the 1-year AEGD out of D school, what are your chances of getting into OMS after that? It seems like this is the typical route advised by many on these forums since it's kind of rare to be accepted into OMS straight out of D school. Now that I think about it, if you did the 1-year AEGD program, wouldn't you be applying for the same year of OMS residency as straight out of D school? Because I thought you had to wait ~1 year even if you got in right away because it starts earlier than D school ends typically. If this is true and I didn't get into OMS straight out, decided to do a 1-year AEGD, would it then be 2 years before I got into OMS at the soonest because I would need to apply for the year after the first available year out of D school (like 1 year after the chance of getting accepted to OMS straight out of D school)? Sorry if that's confusing
That seems fairly reasonable as I have seen that the acceptance rate to be somewhere between 50~60%. Just wondering, where are you getting these stats from? I have tried to obtain military dental stats and cannot find them (like maybe it has HPSP stats apps/accepts too?). Another poster had all the apps/accepts for ALL specialties for I think 2008. Just wondering if it's inside info or available to public?
I'm speaking only for Army. I have posted the stats each year including this one - and you can search the threads to find them. You can not accept both AEGD and OMFS. The start dates are different. AEGD starts the end of summer when everyone is done with OBLC, so you don't finish until end of summer the following year. OMFS and all other specialties start on 1 July - so you can not walk straight from a 12 month AEGD into a specialty.
All applicants have their application packet. Anything you do that distinguished you from someone else helps. By that train of though a 12 month AEGD will distinguish you from others, and therefore is looked at favorably.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2010
- Messages
- 28
- Reaction score
- 0
Thanks, that makes sense. I have pretty good stats (3.8 gpa, 22 DAT), so I'm hoping that carries over to D school and I finish top 10%. Still though, I know the Navy needs change annually so I am also gambling as well. Seeing that the HPSP have gotten more competitive, I imagine it will be more competitive as well, but of course it can't be predicted so hopefully like you said, OMFS are in fairly good need.
Thanks! I figured it would probably be for the OMFS cycle a year after the AEGD finished. Since that is true, then my "planned" timeline would look something like graduate D school, go to AEGD for 1 year, serve 1 year HPSP, get into OMFS for 4 years, get out and serve 4 years as OMFS (3 years concurrent with HPSP and 1 year solely OMFS). So my total would be 10 years with Navy. That clarifies a lot of info, as I would LOVE to get into OMFS straight out, but my backup plan seems pretty good because if I keep pretty good stats and do AEGD, it would seem like a pretty good shot to get chosen for OMFS.
Let me know if that sounds about right, because I know there is A LOT of confusion when it comes to this type of planning and how the military actually works. I figure it's not bad being OMFS at 36 and having superior military training, but if I'm incorrect, please let me know so I can consider my options.
And THANKS for both of your info!
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2005
- Messages
- 357
- Reaction score
- 4
this is only true if you are not applying to OMFS.
if you apply to OMFS, you cannot apply to another residency (except for the 1-year AEGD.)
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,688
- Reaction score
- 61
Good to know - thanks for the clarification.
