~3.9gpa's, 39 (14p/11v/14b), feel as if I'm lacking health EC's??

[s3rr8s]

Year in school: Senior (graduating in May) Chem major/math minor at state school, applying this cycle (to enter in 2016), taking a gap year

State of residence: NJ

Cumulative GPA: 3.90

Science GPA: 3.93

MCAT Scores: 14P/11V/14B for 39 total

Research: Inorganic/solid state chemistry research for 3 years, totalling over 1200 hrs. For most of my time working in this lab, the staff included only myself and an associate research professor, and as we added more people, I became the one responsible for teaching all the new grad and undergrad students. 1 publication, and I expect another by the time I submit amcas. I know its not medicine related research, but I really enjoyed the problem solving aspect of my research and this has been one of my passions. I will have (hopefully) completely an honors thesis by time of graduation.

Volunteering (clinical): None, as of yet. I know this is probably a red flag, and I’m extremely insecure about it. I am, however, interviewing for a volunteer position at a nearby hospital so I will hopefully have several hours by the time I apply. Part of the reason Im gapping is to get more clinical volunteer experience (I really only discovered medicine was something I really wanted to do by my Junior year)

Physician shadowing: Will have around 100 hours shadowing a plastic surgeon (may be odd, but the guy has an incredible bedside manner) and family practice doctor.

Non-clinical volunteering: Played sunday morning services at a local church as the lead guitarist of a praise band for 2 years (roughly 200hrs). Involved with misc community service activities through pre med club. I just recently became a riding member of my local rescue squad, and now that Im on a weekly schedule, will have roughly 100hrs of this by June.

Extracurricular activities: My junior year, I was given the opportunity to be a teaching assistant for general chemistry lab for two semesters (one paid, one for credit), in which I was put in charge of an entire class of freshman students and got to independently lead the class with lesson plans and demonstrations. I’ve been a paid (only sophomore year) and volunteer (junior year on) tutor for gen chem, orgo, gen physics, and calc I-IV since my sophomore year (as I completed the classes), totalling roughly 500hrs. I’ve also been what is known at my school a “teaching intern” (we’re basically undergraduate TAs; help grade, proctor exams, hold office hours, design practice problems) for organic chemistry for 2 years now. I’ve been a grader for biochem for a year now.



I know my numbers are strong, and I should have at least 4 very good LOR’s, but I feel very insecure with the status of my health-related EC’s. Again, a lot of this is due me really committing to medicine a little bit later in the game, and this was a major factor in my decision to take a gap year to experience medicine more.

All this being said, I’d love to hear your realistic chances and some school recommendations (as mentioned, NJ resident), since I really don’t know how high I should aim, if I should be aiming high at all. Additionally, I’d be curious as to your recommendations as to what someone in my situation should do during the next summer and gap year- I have plans to do a lot of hospital volunteering and go full time with my local EMS, what would you guys recommend in addition/instead? Also, any glaring holes in my app?

Thanks a ton, and sorry if this has been a little long winded, this has been causing me quite a bit of anxiety!

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[dr.0ne]

I know my numbers are strong, and I should have at least 4 very good LOR’s, but I feel very insecure with the status of my health-related EC’s. Again, a lot of this is due me really committing to medicine a little bit later in the game, and this was a major factor in my decision to take a gap year to experience medicine more.

your concern is warranted.

having research unrelated to medicine or biology will not be a problem as much as your lack of clinical experience.
in fact, in my (very limited) opinion, i think chem majors (and physics majors) are smart folk, and that you've immersed yourself so deeply in it's research as well shows passion and grit

really try to get as many hours as you can between now and submission of your app!

you want to make sure you've put the best version of yourself on paper. I'm a strong advocate of applying only once so be comfortable with the number of clinical hours you'll have at time of hitting that submit button.

consider a PS around finding medicine later than most people so adcoms have context when they see your relatively fewer clinical hours


having said all that, you can and should aim high!
your ECs show tremendous leadership and pedagogical prowess. i like your hobby as a lead guitarist and should mention it on your amcas.
your research is solid
just get as many of those clinical hours as you can in your year off.

no glaring holes in your app unless you have any academic or criminal violations

 

[CannedPineapple]

Everything that dr.0ne mentioned, I agree with.

Something that came to mind is that you may even want to consider taking 2 gap years. Reason is that you have very little time between now and submitting your application (which should be in June-ish...trust me, apply early). And even if you manage to get a decent number of hours, med schools like to see a sustained volunteering commitment. If you take two gap years, you can add an entire year of medical volunteering and what not - which will make your app a LOT stronger.

If you do that, aim high, but don't shortchange your state schools.

 

[s3rr8s]

your concern is warranted.

having research unrelated to medicine or biology will not be a problem as much as your lack of clinical experience.
in fact, in my (very limited) opinion, i think chem majors (and physics majors) are smart folk, and that you've immersed yourself so deeply in it's research as well shows passion and grit

really try to get as many hours as you can between now and submission of your app!

you want to make sure you've put the best version of yourself on paper. I'm a strong advocate of applying only once so be comfortable with the number of clinical hours you'll have at time of hitting that submit button.

consider a PS around finding medicine later than most people so adcoms have context when they see your relatively fewer clinical hours


having said all that, you can and should aim high!
your ECs show tremendous leadership and pedagogical prowess. i like your hobby as a lead guitarist and should mention it on your amcas.
your research is solid
just get as many of those clinical hours as you can in your year off.

no glaring holes in your app unless you have any academic or criminal violations

Thanks for the input- I sincerely appreciate it.

My PS (well, at least this weeks draft of it...) focuses on my teaching experiences, as they really helped solidify my draw to medicine.

Everything that dr.0ne mentioned, I agree with.

Something that came to mind is that you may even want to consider taking 2 gap years. Reason is that you have very little time between now and submitting your application (which should be in June-ish...trust me, apply early). And even if you manage to get a decent number of hours, med schools like to see a sustained volunteering commitment. If you take two gap years, you can add an entire year of medical volunteering and what not - which will make your app a LOT stronger.

If you do that, aim high, but don't shortchange your state schools.

I was afraid someone would suggest a second gap year, but I'm afraid I wouldn't be comfortable taking a full two years off, and I'm not sure my family would be too supportive of it.

I understand that adcoms much prefer continued commitment, but given my current situation-

Question for both of you- assuming I logged a decent amount of clinical hours before submitting, and then obviously continued to hold it up through interviews, where would I stand? Do I have a reasonable chance of getting into a US school? Or should I not even bother this cycle, despite the fact that I'm not really sure if I can swing two gap years?

 

[CannedPineapple]

I was afraid someone would suggest a second gap year, but I'm afraid I wouldn't be comfortable taking a full two years off, and I'm not sure my family would be too supportive of it.

I understand that adcoms much prefer continued commitment, but given my current situation-

Question for both of you- assuming I logged a decent amount of clinical hours before submitting, and then obviously continued to hold it up through interviews, where would I stand? Do I have a reasonable chance of getting into a US school? Or should I not even bother this cycle, despite the fact that I'm not really sure if I can swing two gap years?

I understand your situation. If you can't swing two gap years, then go with your current plan, but be advised that you are taking a risk, and you should not be surprised if you end up unsuccessful at the end of the cycle (I'm not trying to put you down, but it's a realistic possibility. I actually do hope everything works out for you, and I think there is a chance of that happening still).

To spell out the risk a bit more, say that you log X hours before submitting your primary. That number may very well get you screened out if it's too low before you get to the stages of the review process that would really benefit your app. If you do manage to get past a screen, the reviewers may still wonder/worry about that. They will see that you indicated your intended commitment to volunteering through the end of 2015/2016, but given the current competition, intent to do something doesn't mean as much. You can also send updates to inform them of your continued volunteer experiences, but that's also riskier because update letters can very easily fall through the cracks and not get read/read briefly and forgotten. Lastly, in interviews, people will ask about your clinical experiences, and if you can't talk about them in depth, then that's also a bad sign. They may even ask how you know you are committed to medicine despite not having a lot of clinical exposure (so you'll want to prepare answers to these questions beforehand).

 

[s3rr8s]

If I were to take a second gap year, and spent it getting clinical experience and volunteering, how much better would my chances really be?

Also, do you think I should have any fear of my september 2014 MCAT expiring??

 

[dr.0ne]

If I were to take a second gap year, and spent it getting clinical experience and volunteering, how much better would my chances really be?

Also, do you think I should have any fear of my september 2014 MCAT expiring??

Your chance at a top 10 school would be relatively high. You've shown dedication in all your other activities, so to short change yourself on an amazing program because you didn't do something that's relatively easy, hosp volunteering, for long enough seems a bit risky.

More importantly, you've skimped out on arguably the most important pre-med EC-through no fault of your own...you decided on medicine late. (Which is why I think a short explanation in ur PS or in secondaries that allow it is necessary so adcoms don't think you forgot to do something really important.) For example, "I didn't know I wanted to practice medicine until i started teaching ___ in my ____ year of college. Let me tell you about this experience that makes me now, more than ever, want to practice medicine..."

Having said that, you should have no problem getting into a school in the us. You do have shadowig hours which is still better than having nothing.

Ask goro and gyngyn for advice and also apply to top schools that value heavy research experience. I believe UPenn and JHU are one of those and there are more but I'm not sure of them all.

 

[s3rr8s]

Your chance at a top 10 school would be really high. You've shown dedication in all your other activities, so to short change yourself on an amazing program because you didn't do something that's relatively easy, hosp volunteering, for long enough seems a bit risky.

More importantly, you've skimped out on arguably the most important pre-med EC-through no fault of your own...you decided on medicine late. (Which is why I think a short explanation in ur PS or in secondaries that allow it is necessary so adcoms don't think you forgot to do something really important.)

Having said that, you should have no problem getting into a school in the us. You do have shadowig hours which is still better than having nothing.

This is really making me second guess myself as far as what cycle to be apply.

Not that I have anything against the state schools, but if waiting an extra year meant that I could get into an extremely competitive program, it makes it seem almost worth the wait. And it seems to be a theme that reapplicants are rarely as successful as first time applicants, so its not as simply as applying this cycle, getting rejected, then applying next cycle.

I am confident I can get in -somewhere- in the US, but I would prefer to stay in NJ-NY-PA. There are some truly phenomenal programs in that area, and if waiting an extra year and entering med school in august of 2017 would give me an opportunity like that, it seems foolish to pass up.

Would the fact that I had two gap years in between have any sort of impact on how I'm viewed?

 

[Goro]

No "probably". This is a red flag and would get you rejected. My student interviewers would have you on toast.

Your story is not unique and with a gap year to show off your altruism, you'll be a stellar candidate!


Volunteering (clinical): None, as of yet. I know this is probably a red flag, and I’m extremely insecure about it. I am, however, interviewing for a volunteer position at a nearby hospital so I will hopefully have several hours by the time I apply. Part of the reason Im gapping is to get more clinical volunteer experience (I really only discovered medicine was something I really wanted to do by my Junior year)

 

[dr.0ne]

Would the fact that I had two gap years in between have any sort of impact on how I'm viewed?

Definitely not OP. average age of matriculation is 23-24. Most people do take 1-2 years off.

And there's your answer right there from Goro.

 

[s3rr8s]

No "probably". This is a red flag and would get you rejected. My student interviewers would have you on toast.

Your story is not unique and with a gap year to show off your altruism, you'll be a stellar candidate!


Volunteering (clinical): None, as of yet. I know this is probably a red flag, and I’m extremely insecure about it. I am, however, interviewing for a volunteer position at a nearby hospital so I will hopefully have several hours by the time I apply. Part of the reason Im gapping is to get more clinical volunteer experience (I really only discovered medicine was something I really wanted to do by my Junior year)

wow. ok thats pretty heavy.

Goro I know you're extremely knowledgable, and although I am not making any rash decisions and am going to continue as if I'm applying this cycle, I was wondering if you could answer this as to what my course of action should be.

Should I either

apply this cycle, risk not getting into a school I'd like or worse not get in at all, in which case I apply next cycle,

or,

skip this cycle, risk my oct 2014 mcats expiring, volunteer at a local hospital and with local ems for the next year, and then apply? My fear would be not getting in during that cycle either.

How bad would it be to reapply for the following cycle if I didn't get in this one??

 

[Goro]

I'm a firm believer in applying with the best possible app, even if it means waiting one year.

If you're a reapplicant, you'll have to show how you've improved.

Why go through all the stress and cost on a crap-shoot? Adcoms want to know that you know what you're getting into, and that you really want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

wow. ok thats pretty heavy.

Goro I know you're extremely knowledgable, and although I am not making any rash decisions and am going to continue as if I'm applying this cycle, I was wondering if you could answer this as to what my course of action should be.

Should I either

apply this cycle, risk not getting into a school I'd like or worse not get in at all, in which case I apply next cycle,

or,

skip this cycle, risk my oct 2014 mcats expiring, volunteer at a local hospital and with local ems for the next year, and then apply? My fear would be not getting in during that cycle either.

How bad would it be to reapply for the following cycle if I didn't get in this one??

 

[j4pac]

Apply when you're ready...you're not ready.

 

[s3rr8s]

Apply when you're ready...you're not ready.

care to be more specific? are you just referring to my lacking clinical experience?

 

[j4pac]

care to be more specific? are you just referring to my lacking clinical experience?

Yes...you are obviously pretty bright, that box is checked. Now you need to show schools that you know what being a physician entails. You have to get some clinical experience.

 

[dr.0ne]

For the mcat expiration, ask the most stringent schools about their policy. i know it's 3 years valid from the date u took it, but i've heard some accept only 2 years.
so oct 2014 - 2015 - 2016 - 2017. you should be safe even if you applied the cycle of 2017-2018 for a majority of schools, though im no expert on this and you should come to your own conclusion after doing some research.

 

[s3rr8s]

Just want to thank you all for your replies.

I'm now seriously considering the "extra" gap year, talked it over with my parents and they seem receptive as long as I am working.

I figure full time EMS in combination with hospital volunteer position and regular shadowing should be more than enough for clinical volunteer work. I'm actually very excited to get involved, especially with school over, it will be nice to be able to completely immerse myself.

As for work, I've read plenty of threads saying it doesn't need to be medicine related. Regardless, I've applied to a number of scribe agencies servicing locations in my area in hope that I can pick up a part time position. Any other suggestions? If I do this, I really want to do it right so that I can shoot top ten in the following cycle.

 

[Doug Underhill]

Honestly, if he crammed 50-100 clinical hours into his application starting today until the first day stats are released to schools- that's like 8 hours a week- wouldn't he be perfectly OK? He has 300 hours of non-clinical to demonstrate altruism and a lot of shadowing to talk about medicine.

 

[Vain Brother]

yeah i'm not sure a second gap year is really necessary. on AMCAS, it asks you to extrapolate the # of hours you've done a certain activity out to when you'll enter med school. if you start volunteering now, you'll have 1.5 years of clinical experience before med school starts. the rest of your application is very strong

get going with your volunteering TODAY and you should be fine to apply this upcoming cycle (to matriculate in 2016)

 

[baghb14]

yeah i'm not sure a second gap year is really necessary. on AMCAS, it asks you to extrapolate the # of hours you've done a certain activity out to when you'll enter med school. if you start volunteering now, you'll have 1.5 years of clinical experience before med school starts. the rest of your application is very strong

get going with your volunteering TODAY and you should be fine to apply this upcoming cycle (to matriculate in 2016)

I agree with @Vain Brother, for me I had a gpa:3.9, MCAT: 31, Clinical Hours: Technically 0, and Research: 2 years all plant related and I still received 5 acceptances at mid tier US schools. I explained the lack of clinical hours was due to having to work a full-time job but no one during my interviews seemed to have a problem with it in fact they understood. So I would simply justify your lack of clinical hours. Will having extra clinical exposure via a gap year help for top US schools? Absolutely. Will it prevent you from garnering any acceptances? Absolutely not. I would say go for it this cycle (definitely apply early, talking first day) cast a decently wide net, complete secondaries ASAP, include some reaches and see what happens.

 

[s3rr8s]

Thanks for all your input guys.

I suppose I'm relatively confident that I can get into a US medical school by applying broadly and interviewing well. But to be honest the more I think about it, the more I'd like to get some more clinical experience. And if waiting an extra year means I can land myself a spot in a very competitive location close to home (this is something of an important factor for me), it seems worth it.